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Just can't enjoy Siege

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Comments

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,154
    edited June 2

    Even with it's (very minor flaws) Siege of Dragonspear felt very necessary and the right move for a "sequel" for one simple reason: ever since Baldur's Gate 2 came out, the transition from defeating Sarevok to ending up in a cage in the dungeon of Irenicus felt completely random and out of the blue. The saga NEEDED a bridge to make it perhaps THE most epic RPG saga of all time. And it also added another 25-30 hours onto a full-play. Now, when one sits down and makes a new character and walks in a circle around Candlekeep, if they intend on experiencing most of the content with that character, they are looking at the possibility of a 250 hour quest.

    I really don't see how SoD made the transition better. You can still completely avoid Minsc or Jaheira in BG1 and SoD and it still make no sense for them to be in Irenicus dungeon with you. Depending on your party composition, you will be forced to have Safana in your party during SoD prologue which is illogical. None of the things you do in SoD matters as there is no references to them in BG2 (because obviously BG2 was released before and no new SoD contents have been added to it).

    There are too many ways to play BG1 and now SoD to be able to have an explanation as to why you end up captured by Irenicus during the transition between the games. And in this case, I think it's best no to try to explain anything so the player can create its own story depending on its party composition and how (s)he played.

    SoD is nice but it should not have tried to explain something that can't be explained. And it should not have added new story plot holes (soultaker quest @ThacoBell ;) ). In my opinion, a standalone adventure would have been much better.

    UnderstandMouseMagicQuartzPermidion_Stark
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,105
    @lefreut Beamdog can't change content in the original games. The canon party of Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, and Imoen is ALWAYS going to be the case when srtarting BG2. THere is no getting around it. SoD at least gives SOME justification for why these characters come with you at the end of SoD (All of them having story reasons for following ANY charname). As for Safana showing up. It makes perfect sense for the Dukes to hire her in the event of your party missing a thief. I don't see how thats a plot hole at all.

    tbone1Shadowdemon
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,154
    ThacoBell said:

    As for Safana showing up. It makes perfect sense for the Dukes to hire her in the event of your party missing a thief. I don't see how thats a plot hole at all.

    The party is missing a thief only because Beamdog choose to remove Imoen. I'm fine with not having Imoen during the crusade but I don't understand why they decide that you can't have her at the beginning.

    I only played SoD once (mostly because it's not translated in my language but it's out of topic) and it's been a while so I may not remember correctly but I think that when you start, Safana is forced into your party and you don't even get any dialogue or explanation.

    QuartzPermidion_Stark
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,105
    @leufreut
    Imoen has started her mage training and doesn't have her thief skills. While I personally wish they let you keep Imoen for the intro, it makes sense within the story as written. Safana is also the logical choice for the Dukes to hire for your expedition. Montaron is Zhentarim and dangerously violent, while Alora is too carefree to trust to a sensitive mission. Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,334
    ThacoBell said:

    Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    @ThacoBell - Coran, Skie, Tiax

    ThacoBellQuartz
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,125
    ThacoBell said:

    @leufreut
    Imoen has started her mage training and doesn't have her thief skills. While I personally wish they let you keep Imoen for the intro, it makes sense within the story as written. Safana is also the logical choice for the Dukes to hire for your expedition. Montaron is Zhentarim and dangerously violent, while Alora is too carefree to trust to a sensitive mission. Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    theres a 4 week time skip after the intro dungeon so she should have been able to be with us during that. just say she started her training after.

    lefreutThacoBellsemiticgodQuartz
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,051
    edited June 2
    The whole "Imoen started her mage training so she can't thieve" is utter nonsense. It's only is a thing because of the rules of D&D.

    I wrote a storied playthrough with charname dualing. I'm not a writer, have no experience writing and managed to come up with a better and more plausible reason for why a character or NPC can no longer thieve. They were seriously injured in a fight so simply couldn't perform the tasks until they healed and therefore did something else.

    Kind of straightforward and pretty much based on realism, people take time to rehabilitate after serious injury. In the meantime they do/learn what they can or something else.

    If you are going to have rules that make a story senseless, adapt the story. They had the stupid poisoning but not poisoning incident in the palace, hey presto, the poison left her somewhat paralised, no thief skills until she fully recovers. In the meantime, she learns magic, it's book based isn't it?

    That uses no reference to arbitary rules that when looked at, fail to convince. Especially as it also gets past the "oh look, I've remembered all my previous skills".
    And for what reason is that pray tell?

    QuartzPermidion_Stark
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,051
    edited June 2

    yep. now you don't need to head canon why the canon party is with you at the start of 2 and play whatever party you want in bg1 and sod.

    Instead you have to headcannon why Minsc and Dynaheir are sitting in the Three Kegs when you killed them less than a month ago......

    Yeah, I can really see how that is so much better.....

    Seems to me that whereas BG2 had understandable and forgivable reasons for why the cannon party has to be present at the start of BG2 (constraints on the development, kicks the story off, could be played as a standalone game which many, many people did, ect.), SOD doubles down on the insistance that these NPC are the ones you should play with.

    It dictates evenmore how you should play. But then, with SOD, the whole design is to remove as much "R" from RPG as it possibly could.

    Quartz
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 7,105

    ThacoBell said:

    Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    @ThacoBell - Coran, Skie, Tiax
    Ah, that's right. How many of them do you trust to hire?

    @UnderstandMouseMagic But Imoen starts BG2 as a Thief>Mage. That needed to be explained. Having take some time off and train under a mage makes perfect sense. SoD also doesn't railroad the playing any harder with the story than any other of the BG titles. You always have to stop the Iron Crisis, You always stop Sarevok, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, and Imoen somehow always traveled with you in BG1, you always chase after Irenicus, etc. SoD does an admirable job fitting those retroactive railroads into a coherent storyline.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 3,210
    edited June 6
    I honestly don't see SoD as a bridge but as a deck. EET makes it something closer to what a bridge would be.

    Post edited by Raduziel on
    tbone1the_sextein
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 580
    edited June 5
    I agree, I really like what EET does to help add some interactivity and personal connection during the crossover. I keep checking the site in hopes that the Icewinddale part of the mod is going to come around. Fingers crossed that k4thos shows up at some point.

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