I assure you that as an Englishman I am always sarcastic, and frequently unkind, this does not preclude me from being accurate. I am still largely uncertain of the exact benefits of possessing a Steam Key - one can talk with others in Window mode using TwitFace, or whatever monstrosity is most popular with the masses of late; use a stopwatch if one really wants to know how long one has been playing; and whilst allowing updates to the game more conveniently sounds neat, being one version behind and beholden to a third party for version updates does not - however as previously stated I do not care, it is irrelevant.
You are customers, not mythical beings deserving of worship. You are owed exactly three things by Beamdog: What you paid for, to be provided what you paid for in a reasonable time frame, and to be treated with respect by their employees. This is all. Doing anything more than these three things is exemplary customer service, not doing more is perfectly good customer service and, despite the assertions of the purported "Marketing and Sales" individual, constitutes perfectly ethical business practices.
It's not even Atari's responsibility to supply you with free steam keys, it is not the responsibility of any merchant to supply special offers offered by others, you don't get the Gamestop preorder bonus if you preorder from Target.
You are, as @ScytheKnight mentions, welcome to ask, nicely, and if they are both able and willing to do you this favour, they may oblige you.
I'm actually a company director whose responsibilities include, among other things, our customer services department, hence my comparatively narrow specialisation in such matters.
I am acutely aware of the irony of having a severe misanthrope being in charge of customer service.
@Pantalion You actually put me in doubt whether I should like, agree or find your post insightful
I really think the core of the problem in this kind of situation is that some buyers believe for some reason that a digitally distributed product should be treated differently from a physical one. You don't see anyone buying a product in a store and trying to get another copy in other store of a different brand.
What most fail to realize in this situation is that you buy the right of use of a product, with implied rights of support from the developer, including, but not limited to user support and product updates.
If you want a Steam key, it's a new license that people are requesting be given away. You have not paid for that license, you acquired a license from the Beamdog distributor, hence my comment that any such decision would be a liberality from Atari as holder of digital distribution rights.
It's not what he said, it's how he said it. And the characterization of Steam users/fans in the beginning of the post was a borderline insulting generalization. ... A lot of the criticisms about Steam seem too irrelevant to the topic at hand, so we're left with a lot of trolling (from what I can see).
Also can we please not lump those of us politely asking if this is possible with the... colourful personalities who are ranting about their right to a Steam key.
My concern is with BG2:EE. I foresee a large drop off in direct sales through Beamdog as many people will be waiting for the inevitable Steam release. This of course will severely impact profits for Beamdog and therefore threaten a potential BG3 or further EE releases.
I donno. The release had more to do with Atari's bankruptcy than anything else. The opposite might actually just happen as Beamdog advertises the exclusive release of BG2 and saying it won't be released on Steam in the near future. Gamers aren't known to sit and twiddle their thumbs, so enough users might get antsy and purchase it here first.
I assure you that as an Englishman I am always sarcastic, and frequently unkind, this does not preclude me from being accurate. I am still largely uncertain of the exact benefits of possessing a Steam Key - one can talk with others in Window mode using TwitFace, or whatever monstrosity is most popular with the masses of late; use a stopwatch if one really wants to know how long one has been playing; and whilst allowing updates to the game more conveniently sounds neat, being one version behind and beholden to a third party for version updates does not - however as previously stated I do not care, it is irrelevant.
I agree. Whether you like it or not, it isn't really relevant to the topic at hand (like I said before).
You are customers, not mythical beings deserving of worship. You are owed exactly three things by Beamdog: What you paid for, to be provided what you paid for in a reasonable time frame, and to be treated with respect by their employees. This is all. Doing anything more than these three things is exemplary customer service, not doing more is perfectly good customer service and, despite the assertions of the purported "Marketing and Sales" individual, constitutes perfectly ethical business practices.
It's not even Atari's responsibility to supply you with free steam keys, it is not the responsibility of any merchant to supply special offers offered by others, you don't get the Gamestop preorder bonus if you preorder from Target.
You are, as @ScytheKnight mentions, welcome to ask, nicely, and if they are both able and willing to do you this favour, they may oblige you.
I agree again. But does my desire for a Steam key really upset you so much? But just because I want it, doesn't mean I feel like I'm entitled to it or I'm getting shafted if they don't hand them out. The worst they can say is "no," and I won't hold any negative feeling towards them should this be the case. "At least they were cool enough to look into it," would be my reaction.
It was the way you characterized Steam users in the first portion of your post that made me feel compelled to reply. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is why I sincerely hoped you were being sarcastic in your characterization of Steam users (such as myself). But if that's your honest opinion, we both know nothing I can say will change your mind about that. The best I can hope for is that we part ways and hold no grudges.
I don't know if @Pantalion is lawyer but I am and he's absolutely right from a legal point of view. In no moment Beamdog even implied that by buying the product from their store you'd receive a key from other store.
Yeah, but has anyone actually suggested that Beamdog is legally obligated to provide Steam keys?
What is being requested by some is not different from buying a book from Amazon and demanding to retrieve a copy from Barnes & Noble because it's from the same author.
I really think the core of the problem in this kind of situation is that some buyers believe for some reason that a digitally distributed product should be treated differently from a physical one. You don't see anyone buying a product in a store and trying to get another copy in other store of a different brand.
What most fail to realize in this situation is that you buy the right of use of a product, with implied rights of support from the developer, including, but not limited to user support and product updates.
If you want a Steam key, it's a new license that people are requesting be given away. You have not paid for that license, you acquired a license from the Beamdog distributor, hence my comment that any such decision would be a liberality from Atari as holder of digital distribution rights.
The difference between a digital product and a physical one is that each physical copy has a cost of manufacturing and distribution associated with it. So if a retailer were to give out free copies, they would have to eat the cost of the physical copy, as well as lose the profit that they would have got if they had sold it. For a digital product, they would only lose the profit. In the case of Steam keys for people who bought BG:EE through Beamdog, that loss of profit would be partially mitigated by the fact that these people are unlikely to ever purchase it through Steam, as they already own a copy. Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Steam has had no problem handing out free Steam keys in the past in situations like these.
I don't see the fact that people are asking for Steam keys to be the problem here (except for the people being douchebags about it). The only problem is that this is the wrong place to be doing it, as it's outside of Beamdog's control. And I really don't think that's a difficult mistake to make. And with any luck, after coming here and finding out that they're talking to the wrong people, sensible folks will go talk to Atari about it.
We're still trying to work out a deal with Atari in regards to steam keys for beamdog purchasers - unfortunately there's no new news on that front just yet. Rest assured that as soon as we DO get something worked out, we'll be shouting it from the parapets.
That makes me happy to hear Just the effort/time to look into it is super IMO. Even if nothing can be worked out, I'll still probably buy directly from the developers. I'm definitely not in a rush to get the situation resolved one way or the other, I'm still having a blast playing BGEE.
If I can expect to see continual future support, more DLC, possible expansions, etc, I will do my part in funding those endeavors buying directly from you guys The potential for what BGEE might become is reason enough to do all I can to support the developers.
Sometimes I think I overuse the smiley's, but that's just how I feel about BGEE, so...
@PetaAtoms - Ah, now I understand you. Yes, 'twas hyperbole, though I am sincere in not understanding the point of these keys (or, I stress, caring). I use Steam myself on occasion, though I can't say that a game being on Steam has ever been anything more than a mild inconvenience, what with it slotting games into its own download folder since I've never cared enough to mess around with its settings.
As I said, I'm fine if people want to ask for whatever reason, and as such, implicitly don't care about whether or why they want it. I do care greatly when petulant, whiny little brats insult people who don't deserve it and feel entitled to things they haven't earned, especially when they claim to do so from their working in "marketing and sales" as an appeal to authority.
Your assumption isn't unfounded, but is a little inaccurate. The actual cost of making a DVD is peanuts, about 15-20 pence per copy. Mail order companies frequently charge shipping, or at very least build the shipping into their item price ("free shipping" is typically either a very enticing lie or a sign that the body you're purchasing from is making enough profit to easily swallow any shipping costs), and include enough in that shipping to pay their staff to wrap, pack and post, you're looking at, on the outside, 5% of the product's overall cost to ship out a solid copy of BG:EE to someone.
Compared to this, you have hosting costs, which may not be 15p a copy, but are still a tangible cost for distribution, you have servers to maintain, and as such staff specifically to do so. Whilst costs are lower, this is not the bulk of the costs, the bulk of costs come from other sources - mostly from paying each step in the chain their percentage (this principle is why musicians get almost nothing from their record sales and go for merchandise instead).
Atari probably gets a good percentage of the sales for itself - I would be surprised if any contract concerning a commodity as valuable and recognised as Baldur's Gate didn't leave things strongly in their favour on that front. Then you have distribution costs - which, as Overhaul is a division of Beamdog, is probably comparatively neglible if done through Beamdog directly, but for Steam and iTunes probably 15% or more, sometimes along with a flat fee.
After you've paid everyone their cut, it still hasn't turned into profit yet, as for the vast majority of the game's early sales need to go into recouping their investment in developing (or in this case, polishing) the game in the first place; voice actors, level designers, coders, the total amount of their pay over the development time plus advertising, plus the fact you need to keep paying people to provide new content or fix old content means the actual "profit" from each unit sold is negligible. Most of the real costs are still there, whether the product is on a DVD or direct download.
I appreciate this isn't directly tied into what you were talking about (if anything, you've merely reminded me of another ongoing theme in this thread), but for every copy Steam sells, that's in all likelihood a copy that Beamdog doesn't get to sell, and for a small business maximising every transaction is important, especially early on in a game's development. It's not just a matter of "Overhaul making less profit", but Overhaul potentially losing out on vital revenue because Steam took those sales away and took yet another percentage off the top, or worse, stopped people buying the game at all because they were waiting for a "75% off Steam sale" first.
Kind of a dick move by Atari to ensure they increased their own revenue at the cost of the actual developer would be my gut reaction here.
I don't see the fact that people are asking for Steam keys to be the problem here (except for the people being douchebags about it). The only problem is that this is the wrong place to be doing it, as it's outside of Beamdog's control. And I really don't think that's a difficult mistake to make. And with any luck, after coming here and finding out that they're talking to the wrong people, sensible folks will go talk to Atari about it.
Neither do I actually, as you'll see if you read my previous posts. It's just that some people seem to see it as Beamdog's obligation to get free Steam keys for those who bought from them. I was just clarifying that it isn't the case here, Beamdog may negotiate the keys and Atari may give them away or not, it's their decision.
What I do not agree is people who feel they have to be GIVEN the keys no matter what it costs to distributors and developer. I don't remember any unreasonable request in this thread, but in other threads in this forum it has already happened.
I don't see the fact that people are asking for Steam keys to be the problem here (except for the people being douchebags about it). The only problem is that this is the wrong place to be doing it, as it's outside of Beamdog's control. And I really don't think that's a difficult mistake to make. And with any luck, after coming here and finding out that they're talking to the wrong people, sensible folks will go talk to Atari about it.
Neither do I actually, as you'll see if you read my previous posts. It's just that some people seem to see it as Beamdog's obligation to get free Steam keys for those who bought from them. I was just clarifying that it isn't the case here, Beamdog may negotiate the keys and Atari may give them away or not, it's their decision.
What I do not agree is people who feel they have to be GIVEN the keys no matter what it costs to distributors and developer. I don't remember any unreasonable request in this thread, but in other threads in this forum it has already happened.
My last paragraph wasn't necessarily aimed at you in particular. I was more just saying that I don't think it's fair to equate people asking for Steam key with people asking for a free copy of a book, or any other physical property. And my argument was partly based on what I just realized may have been a misunderstanding on my part. When you made that comparison, I thought you were referring in general to anyone asking for a Steam key, whereas I'm now realizing that you were probably talking specifically about people who are demanding one, or who feel that they are entitled to one. These are the ones that fall into the douchebag category I mentioned earlier.
They may have ulterior motives for this key as a double dip situation is meaningless, and using the key as a form of currency could work to their benefit. Either way this is a awkward situation, and I don't think Atari is going to support this game. As of the enlightened events within Atari I would say their stake in the franchise is like most publishers, and to hold stake, or ransom is more likely at this point.
I don't know why people are looking for Steam Keys. I purchased it on Steam and I wish it came with a Non-Steam copy since the Steam copy is outdated and incompatible with all other versions of the game. Apparently Atari is not allowing/uploading the most recent patch (probably due to their recent bankruptcy) for BG:EE on steam, which is preventing me from playing with my brother who bought it not on steam.
Will people who purchased the Steam version of the game be given cd keys for beamdog/other since Atari is dropping the ball here (supposedly)?
You'll need to ask Atari or Steam for keys. Failing that you'd best hope that Overhaul can go above and beyond their remit and manage to negotiate with Atari to release some keys. I wouldn't hold your breath though.
I can't believe this topic is still going on. If you want the Steam version, go buy it. It's your own fault for being misinformed/ignorant. The possibility of a Steam release was mentioned, it just wasn't certain yet. I can't believe how all of these entitled whiners are asking for a free copy on Steam from a small company that now already is into problems because of a dick move made by Atari. It is as has been already said in previous posts: if you buy a book on Amazon, you aren't automatically getting a right to a free copy of the same book from Barns 'n Nobles (sp?) How can you NOT understand this? I can't even believe Overhaul is putting effort into negotiating for free Steam keys with Atari just for a bunch of ignorant, greedy little twats who are too selfish in keeping their 20 bucks close to themselves. You bought it through Overhaul while the possibility existed that the game could also appear on Steam in the future. It's your own fault for being impatient and not keeping up with the news. Sorry, but things like these get me really worked up. Customers think they're the next big thing today, that they should be given their game on a golden plate. Well, sorry to say this, but you're just still customers. You're not kings. So behave accordingly. /end of rant
I can't even believe Overhaul is putting effort into negotiating for free Steam keys with Atari just for a bunch of ignorant, greedy little twats who are too selfish in keeping their 20 bucks close to themselves.
Unfortunately the guys at Overhaul are really decent people that want to keep their customers and fans happy. From a financial point of view that's probably not good (giving away additional copies). From a marketing point of view it's excellent, assuming the key recipients were to be grateful... though judging by several of them it'd be more along the lines of "Well it's about damn time!"
When the game came out and I got a computer that could run BG and BG 2. I first bought BG 1, then BG 2, the big box version. Then 3 years later a collective pack for IWD series and BG series came out, I bought it. Then a jewel box version of whole BG series. Now I bought BG:EE, I think I spend around 250 dollars for this whole series, and damn it's still well worth it.
Asking for Steam key is like... well I saw sauage in the market and bought it, then I saw it in Walmart, then I told the Walmart manager that I'm big fan of sausage so he should give me a free pound of it. I really like that idea.
@mlnevese, could you and others try my updated version out of Shadow Keeper (kind of a beta port right now)? I'd coded the language to en_US, but apart from that it detects the dialog.tlk and the Documents folder for me.
@moopy yeap, you just have to set the preferences to tell it where your game is and it loads everything and this first version is hard coded for the en-us tlk.
Comments
I assure you that as an Englishman I am always sarcastic, and frequently unkind, this does not preclude me from being accurate. I am still largely uncertain of the exact benefits of possessing a Steam Key - one can talk with others in Window mode using TwitFace, or whatever monstrosity is most popular with the masses of late; use a stopwatch if one really wants to know how long one has been playing; and whilst allowing updates to the game more conveniently sounds neat, being one version behind and beholden to a third party for version updates does not - however as previously stated I do not care, it is irrelevant.
You are customers, not mythical beings deserving of worship. You are owed exactly three things by Beamdog: What you paid for, to be provided what you paid for in a reasonable time frame, and to be treated with respect by their employees. This is all. Doing anything more than these three things is exemplary customer service, not doing more is perfectly good customer service and, despite the assertions of the purported "Marketing and Sales" individual, constitutes perfectly ethical business practices.
It's not even Atari's responsibility to supply you with free steam keys, it is not the responsibility of any merchant to supply special offers offered by others, you don't get the Gamestop preorder bonus if you preorder from Target.
You are, as @ScytheKnight mentions, welcome to ask, nicely, and if they are both able and willing to do you this favour, they may oblige you.
@mlnevese
I'm actually a company director whose responsibilities include, among other things, our customer services department, hence my comparatively narrow specialisation in such matters.
I am acutely aware of the irony of having a severe misanthrope being in charge of customer service.
I really think the core of the problem in this kind of situation is that some buyers believe for some reason that a digitally distributed product should be treated differently from a physical one. You don't see anyone buying a product in a store and trying to get another copy in other store of a different brand.
What most fail to realize in this situation is that you buy the right of use of a product, with implied rights of support from the developer, including, but not limited to user support and product updates.
If you want a Steam key, it's a new license that people are requesting be given away. You have not paid for that license, you acquired a license from the Beamdog distributor, hence my comment that any such decision would be a liberality from Atari as holder of digital distribution rights.
You don't happen to work for Halfords do you?
It was the way you characterized Steam users in the first portion of your post that made me feel compelled to reply. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, which is why I sincerely hoped you were being sarcastic in your characterization of Steam users (such as myself). But if that's your honest opinion, we both know nothing I can say will change your mind about that. The best I can hope for is that we part ways and hold no grudges.
I don't see the fact that people are asking for Steam keys to be the problem here (except for the people being douchebags about it). The only problem is that this is the wrong place to be doing it, as it's outside of Beamdog's control. And I really don't think that's a difficult mistake to make. And with any luck, after coming here and finding out that they're talking to the wrong people, sensible folks will go talk to Atari about it.
If I can expect to see continual future support, more DLC, possible expansions, etc, I will do my part in funding those endeavors buying directly from you guys
Sometimes I think I overuse the smiley's, but that's just how I feel about BGEE, so...
As I said, I'm fine if people want to ask for whatever reason, and as such, implicitly don't care about whether or why they want it. I do care greatly when petulant, whiny little brats insult people who don't deserve it and feel entitled to things they haven't earned, especially when they claim to do so from their working in "marketing and sales" as an appeal to authority.
@TJ_Hooker
Your assumption isn't unfounded, but is a little inaccurate. The actual cost of making a DVD is peanuts, about 15-20 pence per copy. Mail order companies frequently charge shipping, or at very least build the shipping into their item price ("free shipping" is typically either a very enticing lie or a sign that the body you're purchasing from is making enough profit to easily swallow any shipping costs), and include enough in that shipping to pay their staff to wrap, pack and post, you're looking at, on the outside, 5% of the product's overall cost to ship out a solid copy of BG:EE to someone.
Compared to this, you have hosting costs, which may not be 15p a copy, but are still a tangible cost for distribution, you have servers to maintain, and as such staff specifically to do so. Whilst costs are lower, this is not the bulk of the costs, the bulk of costs come from other sources - mostly from paying each step in the chain their percentage (this principle is why musicians get almost nothing from their record sales and go for merchandise instead).
Atari probably gets a good percentage of the sales for itself - I would be surprised if any contract concerning a commodity as valuable and recognised as Baldur's Gate didn't leave things strongly in their favour on that front. Then you have distribution costs - which, as Overhaul is a division of Beamdog, is probably comparatively neglible if done through Beamdog directly, but for Steam and iTunes probably 15% or more, sometimes along with a flat fee.
After you've paid everyone their cut, it still hasn't turned into profit yet, as for the vast majority of the game's early sales need to go into recouping their investment in developing (or in this case, polishing) the game in the first place; voice actors, level designers, coders, the total amount of their pay over the development time plus advertising, plus the fact you need to keep paying people to provide new content or fix old content means the actual "profit" from each unit sold is negligible. Most of the real costs are still there, whether the product is on a DVD or direct download.
I appreciate this isn't directly tied into what you were talking about (if anything, you've merely reminded me of another ongoing theme in this thread), but for every copy Steam sells, that's in all likelihood a copy that Beamdog doesn't get to sell, and for a small business maximising every transaction is important, especially early on in a game's development. It's not just a matter of "Overhaul making less profit", but Overhaul potentially losing out on vital revenue because Steam took those sales away and took yet another percentage off the top, or worse, stopped people buying the game at all because they were waiting for a "75% off Steam sale" first.
Kind of a dick move by Atari to ensure they increased their own revenue at the cost of the actual developer would be my gut reaction here.
You have keys to the parapets?
I still have to use Ctrl + J...
What I do not agree is people who feel they have to be GIVEN the keys no matter what it costs to distributors and developer. I don't remember any unreasonable request in this thread, but in other threads in this forum it has already happened.
Will people who purchased the Steam version of the game be given cd keys for beamdog/other since Atari is dropping the ball here (supposedly)?
2)Is it able to make changes in save files of steam-bgee? (use trainers)
Asking for Steam key is like... well I saw sauage in the market and bought it, then I saw it in Walmart, then I told the Walmart manager that I'm big fan of sausage so he should give me a free pound of it. I really like that idea.
1)The savegames are compatible independent of the version you're using.
2)Yes it works. Read this thread: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/7205/getting-shadowkeeper-to-work-with-bgee/
If you had the Beamdog version, why would you want a key to a version that isn't as up to date, and will most likely never be as up to date?
(Unless Atari stops being stupid and gives Overhaul direct control of the steam version in the future)
Updating in this thread.
Not really the correct thread for it. But yes, it totally worked!
Does that make it so I don't have to copy files around?
Werepandaspiderslime power.