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  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    elminster wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    The complete ranger's handbook says stalkers can only use weapons that are easy to conceal, and lists these as "blowgun, dagger, dart, knife, short sword, staff, and sling. Optional: garrote, rapier (walking stick), stiletto."

    It also says that in addition to the standard racial enemy options, they can choose any specific thieves guild or assassins guild as their racial enemy.

    Any time a stalker talks to somebody, they can run an intelligence check to discern their alignment and their honesty. I suppose in Baldur's Gate this could've been implemented as an innate Know Alignment, like how paladins have an innate Detect Evil, but that spell's useless anyway.

    It's funny how none of these weapon restrictions exist for stalkers meanwhile the beastmaster gets a quarterstaff, club, or non-thrown ranged weapon and that's it. Even though in 2E it actually is limited to.

    "A Beastmaster is initially limited to weapons that he can make himself: axe (any), club, dagger, dart, javelin, knife, quarterstaff, sling, or spear."

    And that is only for his initial proficiencies.

    Also even then being restricted from getting proficiency in a weapon is not the same as not being able to use that weapon (for some ethical or ideological reason)

    Beastmaster would be far more interesting if they expanded the familiars to include wolves, bears, eagles, owls, wolverines, or large cats. I don't think it would be too hard to implement that. They already have granted them a familiar, unfortunately it's really just an artificial HP boost and a Dragon (which makes absolutely no sense, at least let them choose from the neutral pool!).

    Ranger progression is weird in Baldur's Gate in a few ways.

    You don't get tracking until epic levels. You don't get an animal companion until your stronghold, and even then it's only a Drizzt Type statuette that you can use to summon the animal companion periodically, not a constant presence.

    I feel like these are both pretty basic and fundamental parts of the ranger experience to put off until such high levels.

    Even Grizzly Adams had a bear companion and he certainly was no ranger!

    Edit: I guess you can always RP that Wilson is your companion when you play a Ranger. That's a cool option that wasn't there before the EE...

    Is Grizzly Adams not a ranger? I'm reading up on him now and he sounds kind of like a ranger. What makes him different from a ranger?

    He was just an old, wisened, wilderness settler-type. At least in the TV show...

    I'm not sure I understand the distinction here. What would he need to do to become a ranger in your eyes?
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    elminster wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    The complete ranger's handbook says stalkers can only use weapons that are easy to conceal, and lists these as "blowgun, dagger, dart, knife, short sword, staff, and sling. Optional: garrote, rapier (walking stick), stiletto."

    It also says that in addition to the standard racial enemy options, they can choose any specific thieves guild or assassins guild as their racial enemy.

    Any time a stalker talks to somebody, they can run an intelligence check to discern their alignment and their honesty. I suppose in Baldur's Gate this could've been implemented as an innate Know Alignment, like how paladins have an innate Detect Evil, but that spell's useless anyway.

    It's funny how none of these weapon restrictions exist for stalkers meanwhile the beastmaster gets a quarterstaff, club, or non-thrown ranged weapon and that's it. Even though in 2E it actually is limited to.

    "A Beastmaster is initially limited to weapons that he can make himself: axe (any), club, dagger, dart, javelin, knife, quarterstaff, sling, or spear."

    And that is only for his initial proficiencies.

    Also even then being restricted from getting proficiency in a weapon is not the same as not being able to use that weapon (for some ethical or ideological reason)

    Beastmaster would be far more interesting if they expanded the familiars to include wolves, bears, eagles, owls, wolverines, or large cats. I don't think it would be too hard to implement that. They already have granted them a familiar, unfortunately it's really just an artificial HP boost and a Dragon (which makes absolutely no sense, at least let them choose from the neutral pool!).

    Ranger progression is weird in Baldur's Gate in a few ways.

    You don't get tracking until epic levels. You don't get an animal companion until your stronghold, and even then it's only a Drizzt Type statuette that you can use to summon the animal companion periodically, not a constant presence.

    I feel like these are both pretty basic and fundamental parts of the ranger experience to put off until such high levels.

    Even Grizzly Adams had a bear companion and he certainly was no ranger!

    Edit: I guess you can always RP that Wilson is your companion when you play a Ranger. That's a cool option that wasn't there before the EE...

    Is Grizzly Adams not a ranger? I'm reading up on him now and he sounds kind of like a ranger. What makes him different from a ranger?

    He was just an old, wisened, wilderness settler-type. At least in the TV show...

    I'm not sure I understand the distinction here. What would he need to do to become a ranger in your eyes?

    I don't know. Maybe be a forest explorer, or a scout that specializes in wilderness areas, or maybe more like the forest-rangers we have now (help with wildlife management, fight fires, find lost people, catch poachers, stuff like that).
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    elminster wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    The complete ranger's handbook says stalkers can only use weapons that are easy to conceal, and lists these as "blowgun, dagger, dart, knife, short sword, staff, and sling. Optional: garrote, rapier (walking stick), stiletto."

    It also says that in addition to the standard racial enemy options, they can choose any specific thieves guild or assassins guild as their racial enemy.

    Any time a stalker talks to somebody, they can run an intelligence check to discern their alignment and their honesty. I suppose in Baldur's Gate this could've been implemented as an innate Know Alignment, like how paladins have an innate Detect Evil, but that spell's useless anyway.

    It's funny how none of these weapon restrictions exist for stalkers meanwhile the beastmaster gets a quarterstaff, club, or non-thrown ranged weapon and that's it. Even though in 2E it actually is limited to.

    "A Beastmaster is initially limited to weapons that he can make himself: axe (any), club, dagger, dart, javelin, knife, quarterstaff, sling, or spear."

    And that is only for his initial proficiencies.

    Also even then being restricted from getting proficiency in a weapon is not the same as not being able to use that weapon (for some ethical or ideological reason)

    Beastmaster would be far more interesting if they expanded the familiars to include wolves, bears, eagles, owls, wolverines, or large cats. I don't think it would be too hard to implement that. They already have granted them a familiar, unfortunately it's really just an artificial HP boost and a Dragon (which makes absolutely no sense, at least let them choose from the neutral pool!).

    Ranger progression is weird in Baldur's Gate in a few ways.

    You don't get tracking until epic levels. You don't get an animal companion until your stronghold, and even then it's only a Drizzt Type statuette that you can use to summon the animal companion periodically, not a constant presence.

    I feel like these are both pretty basic and fundamental parts of the ranger experience to put off until such high levels.

    Even Grizzly Adams had a bear companion and he certainly was no ranger!

    Edit: I guess you can always RP that Wilson is your companion when you play a Ranger. That's a cool option that wasn't there before the EE...

    Is Grizzly Adams not a ranger? I'm reading up on him now and he sounds kind of like a ranger. What makes him different from a ranger?

    He was just an old, wisened, wilderness settler-type. At least in the TV show...

    I'm not sure I understand the distinction here. What would he need to do to become a ranger in your eyes?

    I don't know. Maybe be a forest explorer, or a scout that specializes in wilderness areas, or maybe more like the forest-rangers we have now (help with wildlife management, fight fires, find lost people, catch poachers, stuff like that).

    Okay. That makes sense. Thank you for indulging my curiosity.
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    The Neverwinter Nights 1 OC, Shadows of Undrentide, and Hordes of the Underdark all begin the same way: you start the game in a building, and then that building gets attacked.

    For comparison, the Neverwinter Nights 2 campaigns did not start this way (even in the OC, the initial battle mostly takes place outside, not in the starting building).
  • WinterisleWinterisle Member Posts: 111
    Mages are scientists and engineers, Clerics are doctors or actual clergy, Druids are environmentalist activists, Rangers are wilderness dwellers who often have friendships with wild animals, Bards are lore and history specialists, or musicians, rogues are, well, rogues, paladins are heroic fighters with principles, and fighters cover just about everything else.

    Some ideas very inspired by yours:

    Mages = Scientists
    Wild Mages* = Mad scientists who are emotionally unstable and sometimes do experiments with horrific consequences.
    Clerics = Health professionals in general (Doctors, nurses and any kind of therapist)
    Druids = New Age ALT therapists (ej: Reiki or Homeopathy)
    Rangers = Antisocial people who live in the woods, talk to animals and so on. Outcasts with good hearts.
    Bards = Punks, musicians, artists in general.
    Rogues = Modern day thieves, cheats, tricksters, seducers, people who work in the black market/deep web etc.
    Paladins = Cops
    Barbarians = Rednecks
    Monks = Athletes, Martial Arts professionals.
    Fighters = Any kind of soldier or warrior
    Shamans = Hippies who do shrooms, ayahuasca, San Pedro, and see weird sh*t listening to the Grateful Dead

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Researchers, Historians and teachers also fit Bards really well. They aren't just musicians and actors. THey are also keepers of lore.

    "Paladins = Cops" eh, not in the US.

    Some may be Blackguards...
  • WinterisleWinterisle Member Posts: 111
    edited August 2019
    @ThacoBell True, Historians would fit in to bards too.

    @Balrog99 Yep, I was thinking of giving that explanation, mentioning Blackguards or fallen Paladins (tyrannical law enforcers, corrupt police, etc)
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    I tend to translate any kind of artist into a bard and any kind of academic into a mage.

    The character archetypes are kind of larger than life exaggerations of actual professions and stuff. Bending reality to your will doesn't really make any more or less sense for a physicist than a linguist. That's not how academia works in real life. That's part of the fantasy.

    By that same trade, art may connect with its audience to a certain extent in real life, but song doesn't really inspire superhuman feats in all who listen any more or less than painting or poetry.

    Priests are just that, priests in real life. No, your local pastor can't really raise the dead but again, that's part of the fantasy. Creating a scenario where religious ferver translates into that kind of power.
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    Winterisle wrote: »
    Druids = New Age ALT therapists (ej: Reiki or Homeopathy)

    Those are rogues too.
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,391
    I like it when some games will have a dedicated merchant class, though I'm not sure I've ever seen one terribly well implemented.

    It's just a cool idea for me, and as valid an archetype as the scholar or the athlete imo.

    Snake Oil Salesmen would easily fall into a Merchant Class, if Dungeons and Dragons offered such a thing.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    The Sword of Chaos is free healing in Chateau Irenicus to anyone who can wield it. Even though the Jailkeep Golem is immune to the magic damage, you'll still get the drained hit-point added to your health. Could be handy for you no-reloaders!
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,385
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    The Sword of Chaos is free healing in Chateau Irenicus to anyone who can wield it. Even though the Jailkeep Golem is immune to the magic damage, you'll still get the drained hit-point added to your health. Could be handy for you no-reloaders!
    Tried it the last time there.

    I think Beamdog “fixed” that, so it doesn’t work any more :'(
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    The Sword of Chaos is free healing in Chateau Irenicus to anyone who can wield it. Even though the Jailkeep Golem is immune to the magic damage, you'll still get the drained hit-point added to your health. Could be handy for you no-reloaders!
    Tried it the last time there.

    I think Beamdog “fixed” that, so it doesn’t work any more :'(

    I just did it a few minutes ago. Fired up a Berserker-Thief dual and never needed to use a potion.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    The Sword of Chaos is free healing in Chateau Irenicus to anyone who can wield it. Even though the Jailkeep Golem is immune to the magic damage, you'll still get the drained hit-point added to your health. Could be handy for you no-reloaders!
    Tried it the last time there.

    I think Beamdog “fixed” that, so it doesn’t work any more :'(

    I just did it a few minutes ago. Fired up a Berserker-Thief dual and never needed to use a potion.

    It should work. The sword just gives you a hit point every time it scores a hit. It also does 1 bonus slashing damage to represent the stolen HP I guess.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    Check if it works with the cambion when it is not yet released. At least that is how I sometimes used it.
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 614
    If you're that desperate for healing in Chateau Irenicus, there's something wrong with your character build. Especially as you get gifted tons of potions in the dungeon, and which are hardly a scarce resource at any time later.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    If you're that desperate for healing in Chateau Irenicus, there's something wrong with your character build. Especially as you get gifted tons of potions in the dungeon, and which are hardly a scarce resource at any time later.

    Some builds are more susceptible to damage than others (Kensai) for example. It's more of an exploit for a solo adventurer than for general use (unless you're a hoarder who is loathe to waste potions).
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    I use potions only for emergency in-fight healing and spells for between-fight healing.
    You could also just rest spam, the result would be the same, except this is just in the same game time period. It is more convenience than anything else.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    semiticgod wrote: »
    A Cleric of Lathander dual-classed to thief has the highest theoretical physical damage output of any character, provided that it's not the Bhaalspawn. Once that character gets Use Any Item, it can combine the Robe of Vecna with the Wand of Lightning trick and get +6 to damage and 5 APR from a WoL-boosted Boon of Lathander, and BoL will only take a single frame to cast. Combine it with the Reform Party trick to restore each casting of BoL and use the Quick Save trick to clear its aura and eliminate the gap between castings, and the character can get an additional +6 to damage every few frames for 20 rounds at maximum level.

    If it weren't for the damage cap, you could deal truly extraordinary amounts of damage using Righteous Magic-boosted iron golem backstabs at 10 APR. If you cast BoL just once per second for 19 rounds, you could deal 37,000 damage on the 20th and final round. In practice, the damage cap would limit it to just over 10,000.

    So basically you could single-handedly take out an M-1 tank, or without the limit sink an aircraft carrier? I'm sure glad there are no exploits like that in real life!
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,866
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Potions of genius are now for sale in the U.K.

    Edit: At 3% alcohol it may take multiple potions to get the full effect...

    If somebody takes multiple potions they might THINK that they are a genius, but that is an illusion.

    People with a lot of CH3CH2OH in their blood, often think that they are very funny, but those who are sober know that they have misled themselves.
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