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  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368

    I dunno. I think $50/hour is pretty excessive payment. Comparing the hourly wage for an on-call engineer and someone playing a video game is pretty silly. If anything you should go with something close to the minimum wage, which in the Uk would probably be the equivalent of about $10-12. Its also making the fallacious assumption that everyone who bought the game actually completed it or even played that far, which is very unlikely. I'd say that probably *at least* 50% of the people who have bought BG never got passed Chapter 2/3.

    Considering the number of replays and how rabid the fans of the game are, I think calculating an 'Average' play through at 100 hours across all players, is probably being quite conservative. Sure maybe only 10% play multiple times, but I'd say that within that 10%, you'd find a much higher play through time and multiple play throughs in the double digits easily. So considering averages, again 100 hours is probably light. so maybe 80% have a playthrough of 80 hours. The remaining players might have an average play through (all in) in the thousands. Net/net it is going to average above 100.
    Bigfish said:


    I'd say your wage calculation is a bit off. Median wage in the US is ~13$ an hour, and given that video games are a leisure activity, that should really cut that in half. That would shift your number down to 3.6$ billion. But that's not lost productivity, more just a general guideline for the private value of entertainment.

    Given that PC gaming is more an upper middle class past time anyway, I don't think you can start off with Median wage which includes low income numbers in it. Which isn't to say that low incomes don't play, merely that the bulk of players fall into the middle income and higher. Thus the 'Median' needs to be adjusted for a significant portion of the population having a higher average income.

    Then go with that the average PC gamer comes with a level of computer experience, that shifts the average IQ up a bit. Add to that RPG gamers and it goes up a bit more. considering that there is a direct correlation between IQ and wage, comparing to the "Median" wage makes even less sense. How about comparing to the median IT wage? Then you are talking closer to $50 or higher.

    Then add to the fact that fans of the game tend to be rabid fans, calling it Leisure time, and therefore less value add than work time seems a bit capricious. My free time is at a premium and I wouldn't under-cut it on my work time.
    1. You do know the difference between mean and median, right? Median is the exact wage where half the population is above and half the population is below. It's not weighted based on many low paying or a few very high paying jobs. It is the standard measure used when you want to avoid skewing to one end or the other.

    2. The value of leisure time is Calculated off typical overtime, which is when one sacrifices time that would normally go to other pursuits to work another hour. To convince someone to do that, you generally have to pay for their work, plus the opportunity cost of what they would otherwise be doing, which in general is... Another 50% of their wage.

    3. You'll have to make a much stronger case than your say so that everyone playing BG over the years is a well payed IT worker or equivalent with an IQ of >125.

    We're not calculating anything here beyond the product of a couple of knowns and some numbers we're pulling out of our butts for things no one has surveyed.

    You say median IT wage is 50$? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says it's 36.67$. Also, they are about .0025% of the working population. Even at the current level of 155 million jobs in the US, that's only a possible ~400k people, so unless ALL IT people are buying several copies, there is a much larger variety of people playing this game than you give credit for.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    edited January 2014
    Bigfish said:


    1. You do know the difference between mean and median, right? Median is the exact wage where half the population is above and half the population is below. It's not weighted based on many low paying or a few very high paying jobs. It is the standard measure used when you want to avoid skewing to one end or the other.

    In fact, I do. However, I was attempting to point out that one should not consider a portion of the population that will not be participating in your study in their calculations, lest you end up with nonsense results.
    Bigfish said:

    3. You'll have to make a much stronger case than your say so that everyone playing BG over the years is a well payed IT worker or equivalent with an IQ of >125.

    I never said everyone who played the game was a well paid IT person. I said that the larger percentage of players were middle to upper middle income with some technical background and that group would be analogous to IT professionals in income. Therefore, comparing a median income value which considers constituents outside of that category is going to skew results. It is statistically more sound to use a sub-set or group representative of that sub-segment of the population "such as" an IT profession. That will yield closer results to reality.

    Nor did I say that they all had an IQ of greater than 125. I said that "on average" consumers of RPG type computer games generally have a higher than median IQ, and that factor is directly correlated statistically to higher incomes. Therefore comparing a sub-segment with a factor which falls outside of the standard deviation against the statistical median, without considering that factor will generate inaccurate results.
    Bigfish said:


    We're not calculating anything here beyond the product of a couple of knowns and some numbers we're pulling out of our butts for things no one has surveyed.

    You say median IT wage is 50$? The Bureau of Labor Statistics says it's 36.67$. Also, they are about .0025% of the working population. Even at the current level of 155 million jobs in the US, that's only a possible ~400k people, so unless ALL IT people are buying several copies, there is a much larger variety of people playing this game than you give credit for.

    If you take those statistics (average IT income as our sample group) and use the statistics you provided above (that of taking wage plus opportunity cost of *.50% equaling leisure time value), you get $55.00 or a value HIGHER than the other poster was suggesting.

    But let's keep it friendly, shall we?
    Heindrich
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368
    See, you just keep making assumptions. We're exluding these people, now we're billing at Overtime wages. You're not conducting a study, you're pulling numbers from thin air because there is no sample to work with.

    You're committing the intelectually bankrupt practice of justifying yourself after the fact. You like whatever number you came up with, and no one will convince you otherwise.

    You know what though? At the end of the day, you made up your numbers and they are meaningless. You may as well cite a Borillion hours played by the Jackson people of Rygon 5 who are an unequivocally fun hating people who charge 3000 space rubles per standard time unit for all the actual sampling or even basic research you bothered to do for your "calculation".
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    I despair.

    To Quote the immortal Douglas Adams.
    “It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.”

    This is the sum total of your 'Lack of assumptions'. You absolutely have to make certain assumptions or you are comparing your target market to the entire world, and doing that will not yield any results of any statistical worth. Basically you are selling Ferrari's to sub-poverty level consumers and wondering why your inventory isn't moving.

    As for the rest, I suspect that you are arguing, not because you think you have a point, but simply to argue. Those comments are belligerent and have no points made other than to antagonize.

    I say again, let's keep it friendly. If you have points to make in reasonable discussion, let's hear them. Not hyperbole.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Here's another one. One of the questions that the Djinni asks on the 'Bridge' inside the tent in Waukeen's promenade, is a close take on one of the riddles in The Hobbit. I can't remember off the top of my head which one, but yep. That's the source.
    Metallomanbooinyoureyestypo_tilly
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 223
    edited January 2014

    Did you know the voice of Rasaad is Mark Meer, who is most well known for playing the male version of Commander Shepard from the Mass Effect series? And as someone mentioned earlier, Jennifer Hale who voices Mazzy is also the voice of female Shepard. And her BG2 voice work was done over a decade earlier.

    Voice actors are apparently a pretty tight community.

    Speaking of which did you know that Mark Meer did ALL the Vorcha, ALL the Hanar and Niftu Cal, BIOTIC GOD, along with Commander Shepard?

    Honestly, one of the best parts of playing the Mass Effect series was seeing his voice acting skills progress from being mediocre (but meme-tastic) in the first game, to very good in Mass Effect 2 and matching, or possibly even surpassing, Jennifer Hale's in Mass Effect 3.
    SchneidendCrevsDaak
  • sparrow13xsparrow13x Member Posts: 118
    Onestep said:


    Speaking of which did you know that Mark Meer did ALL the Vorcha, ALL the Hanar and Niftu Cal, BIOTIC GOD, along with Commander Shepard?

    Honestly, one of the best parts of playing the Mass Effect series was seeing his voice acting skills progress from being mediocre (but meme-tastic) in the first game, to very good in Mass Effect 2 and matching, or possibly even surpassing, Jennifer Hale's in Mass Effect 3.

    Yeah I totally agree. In Mass Effect 1 he was kinda flat, with the most memorable line being "I've had enough of your snide insinuations" before falco punching that reporter (whose name slips my mind at the moment, it's been almost a year since I've played ME. Kalisah something?).

    In Mass Effect 3 though he was terrific indeed. When he dropped the "that was for Thane you son of a b*" line I got a little bit excited in the pants, not gonna lie.
    SpaceInvaderSkatan
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 223
    edited January 2014
    Never mind.
    Post edited by Onestep on
    FredjoDJKajuru
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,058
    @booinyoureyes and DINGS DINGS DINGS Wild MAGICS!!! DINGS!
    booinyoureyesJuliusBorisov
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,058

    Did you guys know that I always longed for a 'Two-Shield Style' proficiency?
    Fighting for your naked life with a shield equipped in either hand and no weapons whatsoever in your inventory would be no doubtly beyond epic!

    I want to Like, Agree and Insightful that comment!! It is epic (this sounds like a thing my latest PC should do, he is a Quasit :D).
    JuliusBorisov
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,058

    Did you guys know that Bub Snikt (the ranger type you meet south of Nashkel) is a not-so-carefully concealed reference to Wolverine from Marvel Comics' The X-Men (among other series)?
    Bub is the pet/nickname he often uses to refer to other characters, and the "snikt" is translated from onomatopoeia to English as the sound made when he pops his adamantium claws.
    He mention being able to sniff out monsters from miles away, and heightened senses (particularly smell) is one of Wolverine's numerous special abilities.

    Yes I knew it!
    booinyoureyesJuliusBorisovtypo_tilly
  • FatalApocalypseFatalApocalypse Member Posts: 66

    Imoen wasn't originally going to be in the series.

    "Originally Imoen did not exist in Baldur's Gate. Her character was a late addition to fill a non-psychotic-thief gap in the early levels. There was no recording budget left, so her lines were scraped together from voice-over left from a scrapped demo. The original character was a guard named Pique"

    ARE YOU SAYING IMOEN IS NOT PSYCHOTIC ?!?! *dies from extreme nonsense attack*

    jackjackQuartzDJKajuru
  • JoviwanJoviwan Member Posts: 28

    Imoen wasn't originally going to be in the series.

    "Originally Imoen did not exist in Baldur's Gate. Her character was a late addition to fill a non-psychotic-thief gap in the early levels. There was no recording budget left, so her lines were scraped together from voice-over left from a scrapped demo. The original character was a guard named Pique"

    Uh, whut?

    "Heya, it's me, Imoen!"
    thespace
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