It never ceases to amaze and annoy me how pervasive and divisive national/cultural identities are.
As @Anduin mentioned, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with being proud of and celebrating your national/cultural identity. As somebody exposed to both western and eastern culture, I sometimes feel that western (British) culture is too individualistic and does not value or respect good traditions or an awareness of the merits of society.
Patriotism is not a bad thing if it means we care more for our country and countrymen, and work together to build a better society for all, rather than selfishly seek to maximise one's own benefits from society, or totally rejecting it.
Of course Patriotism is often framed in the context of an inferior or evil "other". This is when ignorance, intolerance and prejudice corrupts a positive ideal into something perverse and poisonous.
Egg ----> face. Sorry for being so quick to take offence. It's just you wouldn't believe how many comments I've seen like that (and far, far worse) that were not in jest.
This is one of those rare places on the interwebz where one can have fairly candid debates about sensitive topics in a mature and reasonable manner without descending into flame wars. It is partly why I love our community here.
As one of only seven males in the entirety of England who can't stand football I'm afraid your analogy is lost on me...
Blasphemy! Get. Out. . . . . And this is how jokes can be totally misinterpreted in a forum since written text cannot convey context and emotion and can be read by people who don't know you at all.
Not to worry @decado ! I'm sure we can work out some reason to hate each other for. This is Britain after all... Are you from the north or the south? (a good dividing line always splits people up...
It never ceases to amaze and annoy me how pervasive and divisive national/cultural identities are.
As @Anduin mentioned, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with being proud of and celebrating your national/cultural identity. As somebody exposed to both western and eastern culture, I sometimes feel that western (British) culture is too individualistic and does not value or respect good traditions or an awareness of the merits of society.
Patriotism is not a bad thing if it means we care more for our country and countrymen, and work together to build a better society for all, rather than selfishly seek to maximise one's own benefits from society, or totally rejecting it.
Of course Patriotism is often framed in the context of an inferior or evil "other". This is when ignorance, intolerance and prejudice corrupts a positive ideal into something perverse and poisonous.
I think it breeds ignorance, intolerance and prejudice and leads inevitably from the positives. But it's too big a discussion for me on a Saturday, sorry. Maybe someone can be my Biff the Understudy.
Not to worry @decado ! I'm sure we can work out some reason to hate each other for. This is Britain after all... Are you from the north or the south? (a good dividing line always splits people up...
Great scene in Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. After making a deal in a club and walking away
Barry the Baptist: "F^%&ing northern monkeys!"
Scouse Guy With an Afro Whose Name I Forgot: "I hate these f%$*ing southern fairies"
Do you know the Aston Villa result today @Booinyoureyes ? Or are you just being extra insightful?
@Anduin Yeah, I knew the result At least you are still the best club in Birmingham!
Not to venture too far off-topic, but I think Aston Villa is the funniest team in the Premiership. They are always supposed to get relegated, but then somehow go and beat the best teams in the league and stay up. They beat freaking Arsenal, City and Chelsea last season and they have already beaten Liverpool this year... away! I love how Gary Neville once described them on MNF: "Villa have some daft players, they could do something stupid in big games like score three goals on the counter attack". Hilarious description XD
edit: They better not do anything stupid next Saturday >:s
Tis true. Aston Villa famously won the old first division twice and the UEFA super cup using the same 14 players in 1984(ish... going on memory here) Since then they have tried to do the same with smallest squad possible. They cause huge upsets sometimes. But most of the time the squad are knackered or injured. Not a bad start from rhis year though @booinyoureyes
Not just the Super Cup but the actual European Cup too! Also, yeah, great start! Liverpool though... sorry @Heindrich. They lost again. Atletico had a bad match today as well.
I haven't been around much lately, but things are getting a little out of hand in Australia. Yesterday a man being investigated for terrorism stabbed two police officers, they shot and killed him. Apparently he was planning on beheading the police officers and making a video for the internet.
A Navy officer was attacked by two middle eastern men while going to work, they threatened to behead him and then there was a bit of a fight. In response Muslim mosques have been attacked and graffitied. I head from friends they've been told not to wear their uniforms outside of military bases and to travel in groups. Police have started doing the same thing.
This is rapidly turning into a hate war against Muslims in general and many people are fueling the flames. Not helped by the fact ISIL just beheaded another hostage.
Their are new laws and sweeping new powers for police to fight terrorism, I'm becoming a little concerned.
Their are new laws and sweeping new powers for police to fight terrorism, I'm becoming a little concerned.
Some of the powers seem like things we already have in Canada, though you can be sure that whatever new powers they are given will never be rolled back.
"Under the tough legislation, which Prime Minister Tony Abbott said would be introduced into parliament this week, it would be a crime for an Australian citizen to travel to any area overseas once the government has declared it off limits."
Supposedly there are exceptions, but this just comes across as being a catch all approach that is bound to cause further problems down the line for individuals who weren't supporting ISIS or helping out in Syria from a military standpoint. It comes across as the government deciding that you are guilty simply for being somewhere (rather than being part of a particular terrorist group).
Though to be honest I'd be more concerned about this.
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
If it were absolutely necessary that some fundamental tenants such as freedom of speech and expression or rights to privacy be sacrificed or compromised in order to preserve the society, then it would absolutely need to be considered. The problem is when people are threatened with the loss of their "way of life" (meaning democracy with individual liberties) by the powers that be in order to expand the influence of those in power. I don't believe for a second that the NSA's extreme, ongoing violations of the Fourth Amendment rights of U.S. citizens is a necessity to the survival of the United States.
In the event that a fundamental tenant may need to be compromised in some way in order for a state to survive, in particular a democratic state, then a very transparent, public conversation should be had concerning the necessity and exact nature of the compromise. Is it really necessary? Is it worth it? What compromise will be made. How long will the compromise persist (it should never be permanent if it is a means to deal with a temporary issue, yet it always seems to end up being permanent, hmm)?
Those in government positions in a democracy are meant to be civil servants, but in many cases they have been allowed to become a wealthy, powerful elite set apart from the public rather than an extension of the will of the public. The article linked by @elminster which seems that it could give the Australian intelligence service carte blanche to monitor the internet at large certainly should be worrying.
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
Yes. If your speech or expression hinders another's ability to speak or express freely.
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
Yes. If your speech or expression hinders another's ability to speak or express freely.
I'd like to see an example of how this could possibly be so.
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
Yes. If your speech or expression hinders another's ability to speak or express freely.
I'd like to see an example of how this could possibly be so.
Public beheadings are the first thing that comes to mind because of Calonord's post. It is an expression of ones distaste for another's life style.
Threatening another into fear of not being able to speak is another vague one I can mention before having to go back to work.
Holy shit. School is closed after the ferguson announcement. I don't know if much of the international community is following this, but it's a bigger deal now than it ever was. Schools closed, and a highway was briefly shut down by peaceful protesters last night, not to mention at least 25 buildings on fire(nowhere near me).
Holy shit. School is closed after the ferguson announcement. I don't know if much of the international community is following this, but it's a bigger deal now than it ever was. Schools closed, and a highway was briefly shut down by peaceful protesters last night, not to mention at least 25 buildings on fire(nowhere near me).
Cops should wear videocameras, period. I went out and joined the protests in Union Square in NYC. People were knocking over police barricades and yelling some pretty colorful epithets. I can't condone violence on anyone's part, but it is LONG past the time that police relationships with minorities underwent a drastic change.
In other news, yes, the Ferguson deal is pretty big news even here in Finland. I think it's too easy for a policeman to shoot a person dead in the USA. Violence should always be a last resort, especially lethal violence.
There's often talk in the Britain about how the US should limit gun availability both to civilians and to police. Guns are for highly trained police(wo)men that are only allowed firearms when authorised by a senior officer or when on duty at certain high risk sites.
Democracy is founded upon freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Is it okay to sacrifice the fundamental tenants of our way of life in order to preserve it?
That's called liberalism and it has nothing to do with democracy.
Bloomberg say that oil’s decline is proving to be the worst since the collapse of the financial system in 2008 and threatening to have the same global impact of falling prices three decades ago that led to the Mexican debt crisis and the end of the Soviet Union.
And I have to say that among Russian people it's fealt this way: our currency is collapsing with literally every day...
Today I can buy 1 EUR for 64.5 roubles while exactly the same time last year (only a year ago) I could buy 1 EUR for 44.5 roubles ... If the oil's price will be less than 50 USD it would mean the end of Russia. Literally.
Comments
Patriotism is not a bad thing if it means we care more for our country and countrymen, and work together to build a better society for all, rather than selfishly seek to maximise one's own benefits from society, or totally rejecting it.
Of course Patriotism is often framed in the context of an inferior or evil "other". This is when ignorance, intolerance and prejudice corrupts a positive ideal into something perverse and poisonous.
This is one of those rare places on the interwebz where one can have fairly candid debates about sensitive topics in a mature and reasonable manner without descending into flame wars. It is partly why I love our community here.
Blasphemy! Get. Out.
.
.
.
.
And this is how jokes can be totally misinterpreted in a forum since written text cannot convey context and emotion and can be read by people who don't know you at all.
whistles innocently and looks away
Barry the Baptist: "F^%&ing northern monkeys!"
Scouse Guy With an Afro Whose Name I Forgot: "I hate these f%$*ing southern fairies"
Not to venture too far off-topic, but I think Aston Villa is the funniest team in the Premiership. They are always supposed to get relegated, but then somehow go and beat the best teams in the league and stay up. They beat freaking Arsenal, City and Chelsea last season and they have already beaten Liverpool this year... away! I love how Gary Neville once described them on MNF: "Villa have some daft players, they could do something stupid in big games like score three goals on the counter attack". Hilarious description XD
edit: They better not do anything stupid next Saturday >:s
perhaps we should start a football thread...
Which is really a stupid name for it. The only time a foot touches the ball is for field goals or kick offs.
A Navy officer was attacked by two middle eastern men while going to work, they threatened to behead him and then there was a bit of a fight. In response Muslim mosques have been attacked and graffitied. I head from friends they've been told not to wear their uniforms outside of military bases and to travel in groups. Police have started doing the same thing.
This is rapidly turning into a hate war against Muslims in general and many people are fueling the flames. Not helped by the fact ISIL just beheaded another hostage.
Their are new laws and sweeping new powers for police to fight terrorism, I'm becoming a little concerned.
"Under the tough legislation, which Prime Minister Tony Abbott said would be introduced into parliament this week, it would be a crime for an Australian citizen to travel to any area overseas once the government has declared it off limits."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/22/us-australia-security-idUSKCN0HH0M320140922
Supposedly there are exceptions, but this just comes across as being a catch all approach that is bound to cause further problems down the line for individuals who weren't supporting ISIS or helping out in Syria from a military standpoint. It comes across as the government deciding that you are guilty simply for being somewhere (rather than being part of a particular terrorist group).
Though to be honest I'd be more concerned about this.
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/new-laws-could-give-asio-a-warrant-for-the-entire-internet-jail-journalists-and-whistleblowers-20140923-10kzjz.html
In the event that a fundamental tenant may need to be compromised in some way in order for a state to survive, in particular a democratic state, then a very transparent, public conversation should be had concerning the necessity and exact nature of the compromise. Is it really necessary? Is it worth it? What compromise will be made. How long will the compromise persist (it should never be permanent if it is a means to deal with a temporary issue, yet it always seems to end up being permanent, hmm)?
Those in government positions in a democracy are meant to be civil servants, but in many cases they have been allowed to become a wealthy, powerful elite set apart from the public rather than an extension of the will of the public. The article linked by @elminster which seems that it could give the Australian intelligence service carte blanche to monitor the internet at large certainly should be worrying.
Threatening another into fear of not being able to speak is another vague one I can mention before having to go back to work.
School is closed after the ferguson announcement. I don't know if much of the international community is following this, but it's a bigger deal now than it ever was. Schools closed, and a highway was briefly shut down by peaceful protesters last night, not to mention at least 25 buildings on fire(nowhere near me).
http://www.eduskunta.fi/triphome/bin/thw.cgi/trip?${APPL}=erekj&${BASE}=erekj&${THWIDS}=0.34/1417005274_187979&${TRIPPIFE}=PDF.pdf
It's quite interesting.
@bengoshi Might be interested
In other news, yes, the Ferguson deal is pretty big news even here in Finland. I think it's too easy for a policeman to shoot a person dead in the USA. Violence should always be a last resort, especially lethal violence.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-30/oil-at-40-possible-as-market-transforms-caracas-to-iran.html
And I have to say that among Russian people it's fealt this way: our currency is collapsing with literally every day...
Today I can buy 1 EUR for 64.5 roubles while exactly the same time last year (only a year ago) I could buy 1 EUR for 44.5 roubles ... If the oil's price will be less than 50 USD it would mean the end of Russia. Literally.