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[MOD] -Scales of Balance- a post-hac tweak mod

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  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,162
    Ranger Spellcasting:
    -Disabling without breaking Dual-class:
    Use Opcode 177, Use Eff File, specifically targeting the Ranger Class. The eff file would then use opcode 145, Disable Spellcasting : Priest.
    Dual-classing will automatically remove the effect as a part of dual-classing, and when the Ranger class reactivates, you will no longer be a valid target for the effect.
    I would still manually remove the druid spells, at least the ones that you can.

    Reducing spells per day is a slippery slope, because it will overflow to the maximum per day if it goes below 0.

    Spellcasting Speed:
    -I think it would be better to edit the items that reduce spellcasting speed to give a larger benefit to trueclass mages, and/or a smaller benefit to non trueclass mages, than to alter the base spellcasting speed of the class/kits. It would definitely require more file editing though. I do however think it would be an appropriate inherit penalty for Bard kits that don't specialize in spellcasting.

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  • SparhawkSparhawk Member Posts: 5
    Just tried the druid kits and they are a blast. Just one thing...i can't seem to be able to shift back into human form. i'm not entirely sure i didn't mess something up though.

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    Grammarsalad
  • SparhawkSparhawk Member Posts: 5
    For the druids it was all shapechanges as far as i could tell. i tried in lycanthrope regular druids and fighter druid. Also couldn't shapechange back into a human on jahera.

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  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 398
    go to the g3 SR forum and ask Demi, I'm sure he will give you access.
    http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=153

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,527
    Rangers and set woodland traps.

    I've been thinking about this for a while. I think it's reasonable to give rangers a version of set traps that only works outside (and a skill progression). The mage hunter should have the regular version

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  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,527

    Interesting. I don't know how to give them skill progression, other that setting it higher each level in the CLAB file. And it seems like the Stalker should have them unrestricted (but no druid spellcasting), not the Mage Hunter.

    Either way, something to think about for v2. I need to get to v1 first! (Beta 0.5 with 2 more ranger kits and 6 new cleric kits should be here tomorrow!)

    It might be worth experimenting with the thief 2da that is responsible for skill gains but I doubt it'll work. I tried giving monks skill points at first level (thiefskl.2da) but it didn't work--didn't try increasing points per level though...

    But you can "set" their first level at whatever (clasiskl.2a) and increase via ap_,,,spl in the clab (maybe at the same rate as stealth.

    But yeah, maybe full skill for the stalker instead

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    GrammarsaladIllustair
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  • Btw anyone know if the strings (e.g. for class descriptions) are the same in BG2EE as in BG1EE? I only have 1EE so I can't test 2EE.

    Anyone wanna test for me? I know 2EE is still on v1.2 so the kits probably don't work, but can someone try out, say, the Druid and Wizard and Paladin components start the process of creating a new PC, and let me know if the modded kit descriptions include mention of the new shapechanges, cantrips, and paladin kit names? Edit: or someone just export the BG2EE kitlist.2da from NI and shoot it to me in a PM?

    Are the string references for each game documented anywhere?

    In either v0.6 or 0.7, depending on my free time this weekend, I'll convert the mod to a single download that works on all of the games.

    BG2EE has not been updated to 1.3 yet, but as soon as it is I will happily test out whatever you need.

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  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,162
    The values are different:

    2DA V1.0
    *
    ROWNAME LOWER MIXED HELP ABILITIES PROFICIENCY UNUSABLE CLASS KITIDS
    0 RESERVE * * * * * * * *
    1 BERSERKER 25179 25151 25201 CLABFI02 29 0x00000001 2 0x00004001
    2 WIZARD_SLAYER 25180 25152 25203 CLABFI03 30 0x00000002 2 0x00004002
    3 KENSAI 25181 25153 25204 CLABFI04 31 0x00000004 2 0x00004003
    4 CAVALIER 25182 25154 25206 CLABPA02 32 0x00000008 6 0x00004004
    5 INQUISITOR 25184 25155 25207 CLABPA03 33 0x00000010 6 0x00004005
    6 UNDEAD_HUNTER 25185 25156 25208 CLABPA04 34 0x00000020 6 0x00004006
    7 FERALAN 25186 25157 25209 CLABRN02 35 0x00008000 12 0x00004007
    8 STALKER 25187 25158 25211 CLABRN03 36 0x00010000 12 0x00004008
    9 BEASTMASTER 25188 25159 25212 CLABRN04 37 0x00020000 12 0x00004009
    10 ASSASIN 25189 25160 25213 CLABTH02 38 0x00040000 4 0x0000400A
    11 BOUNTY_HUNTER 25190 25161 25215 CLABTH03 39 0x00080000 4 0x0000400B
    12 SWASHBUCKLER 25191 25162 25216 CLABTH04 40 0x00100000 4 0x0000400C
    13 BLADE 25192 25164 25217 CLABBA02 41 0x00200080 5 0x0000400D
    14 JESTER 25193 25165 25219 CLABBA03 42 0x00400000 5 0x0000400E
    15 SKALD 25194 25166 25220 CLABBA04 43 0x00800000 5 0x0000400F
    16 TOTEMIC_DRUID 25198 25171 25224 CLABDR02 44 0x08000000 11 0x00004010
    17 SHAPESHIFTER 25199 25173 25225 CLABDR03 45 0x10000000 11 0x00004011
    18 BEAST_FRIEND 25200 25174 25227 CLABDR04 46 0x20000000 11 0x00004012
    19 TALOS 25195 25168 25221 CLABPR02 47 0x01000000 3 0x00004013
    20 HELM 25196 25169 25222 CLABPR03 48 0x02000000 3 0x00004014
    21 LATHANDER 25197 25170 25223 CLABPR04 49 0x04000000 3 0x00004015
    22 ABJURER 597 502 9564 CLABMA02 21 0x00003FC0 1 0x00000040
    23 CONJURER 2179 504 9565 CLABMA06 22 0x00000080 1 0x00004080
    24 DIVINER 2846 2012 9566 CLABMA05 23 0x00000100 1 0x00000100
    25 ENCHANTER 2861 2022 9567 CLABMA09 24 0x00000200 1 0x00000200
    26 ILLUSIONIST 2862 12785 9568 CLABMA08 25 0x00000400 1 0x00000400
    27 INVOKER 3015 12786 9569 CLABMA07 26 0x00000800 1 0x00000800
    28 NECROMANCER 12744 12787 9570 CLABMA03 27 0x00001000 1 0x00001000
    29 TRANSMUTER 12745 12788 9571 CLABMA04 28 0x00002000 1 0x00002000
    30 WILDMAGE 54893 54894 54892 CLABMA01 52 0x80000000 1 0x80000000
    31 BARBARIAN 45855 45859 45869 CLABFI05 51 0x40000000 2 0x40000000
    32 Blackguard 77512 77513 77514 CLABPA06 53 0x00000021 6 0x00004020
    33 SHADOWDANCER 74296 74297 74298 CLABTH05 54 0x00004000 4 0x00004021
    34 DWARVEN_DEFENDER 74299 74300 74301 CLABFI06 55 0x00004000 2 0x00004022
    35 DRAGON_DISCIPLE 74302 74303 74304 CLABSO01 56 0x00004000 19 0x00004023
    36 DARK_MOON 74305 74306 74307 CLABMO02 57 0x00004000 20 0x00004024
    37 SUN_SOUL 74308 74309 74310 CLABMO03 58 0x00004000 20 0x00004025
    38 LATHANDER_X 25197 25170 25223 CLABPR04 49 0x04000000 3 0x00004015
    39 GRIZZLY_BEAR 16119 16119 86479 CLABBEAR 59 0xFFFFFFFF 2
    40 OHTYR 93785 93785 93786 OHTYR 60 0x00004000 3

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    Superpat
  • SuperpatSuperpat Member Posts: 7
    Hey I realy like what you're doing with this! Though I might wait till your 0.7 version till I play with it, since I really want to see the npcs running around with those kits.

    Your proficiency rework seems sensible, allows us to spend proficiencies without shooting ourselves in the feet.

    Are you planning on reworking the sorcerer class/kits? I enjoy playing as a dragon disciple, but I've read that their bonuses are pretty weak in the endgame compared to their maluses. Also, I'd love to see an eldritch knight kit.

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    Grammarsalad
  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 398
    I really like the idea. I dont find it to powerful. This is also a good way to handle unrepresented weapons.

    For me I would just change the names (my personal peference)

    1) Call all bladed weapons blades:
    Heavy Blades (2hand + Bastards)
    Long Blades (Katana, Long Sword, Scimitar)
    Short Blades (Wakazashi, Short Sword, Dagger, Ninjato)

    Maybe make an Eastern/Oriental Blades section.

    or make :
    Curved Blades (Katana, Wakazashi, Scimitar)
    Long Blades (2handed, Bastards, Long Sowrds)
    Short Blades (Short Sword, Dagger, Ninjato)

    2) Mace + morning star + club = Blunt Weapons

    3) Light Ranged Weapons ? (Slings + Darts)

    The rest sounds fine to me.

    Another option would be to have:

    Heavy Weapons
    Medium Weapons
    Light Weapons
    Exotic Weapons

    But I'm not sure how to balance them.



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    Grammarsalad
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414

    I wonder what people think of this prospective component:
    PROFICIENCY GROUPING:

    - Two-handed swords and bastard swords are combined into a "heavy swords" proficiency.
    - Long swords and scimitars are combined into a "light swords" proficiency.
    - Short swords and daggers are combined into a "short blades" proficiency.
    - Spears and halberds are combined into a "polearms" proficiency.
    - Maces, morning stars and clubs are combined into a "club/mace" proficiency.
    - Long bows and short bows are combined into a "bows" proficiency.

    I think there needs to be some consolidation... but I think the BG1 system is too broad. IWD is close but still not perfect. In this discussion, I want to find perfect.

    I considered just giving everyone more proficiencies (warriors every 2 levels, rogues every 3, clerics every 4) but then fighter could reach GM by level 6, which is crazy - in PnP you can't reach it til level 12.

    Grouping some weapons lets players do more with the proficiencies they have. And in some cases it comes down to immersion - GM in longbows and you trip over a shortbow?? And in some cases it's about the in-game resources - the are more better long swords than there are good spears and halberds combined. So here are my thoughts.

    1) 2-hand swords & bastard sword represent big, heavy, slow, cleaving swords. Mastery in this weapon class gives a fighter the option of using the biggest swords 2-handed, or bastard swords/broad swords 1-handed. The question: too many good items in this class?

    2) Long swords and scimitars represent thin, light, quick, slashing swords. I combined them because a) there aren't a ton of great scimitars, and b) the way they are used seems very close. Katanas fit these characteristics, but katanas are exotic and abnormally powerful, so a separate proficiency for them is reasonable. (And Wakizashi should be included in that proficiency, since training will involve both.)

    3) Short swords and daggers are small, quick, concealable, stabbing weapons. There are lots of good mid-range examples, but not many really powerful ones. The concern is, between this and long sword/scimitar consolidation, will thieves not have enough options for differentiation? I considered leaving long swords and daggers alone and consolidating scimitars with short swords, which would be balanced as far as in-game item distribution... I just can't see the real-world rationalization for it.

    4) Spears + halberds is a lock. BG presents spears as 'long spears' or pikes. Combining them gives a bit more flexibility than vanilla, which is "I'm setting up my character from birth to use this one halberd that I know he'll get 75% into the game."

    5) Mace + morning star + club: I just don't see any way to rationalize separating these. I can't see how ability with one doesn't translate into ability with the others.

    6) Bows: ditto.

    Discuss!
    Interesting! I don't envy the scripting job, however. Nearly every item needs to be edited as well as nearly every CRE file.

    1) No. Especially compared to long swords, there aren't too many two-handers + bastard swords.

    2) Scimitar/Wakizashi/Katana would be a good group. It separates the scimitars from long swords and adds some "bulk" to the exotic weapon group (especially with the best scimitars in the game now being much harder to get).

    3) Another side benefit of Scimitar/Wakizashi/Katana - it's appealing to thieves since there are two weapons in the group they can use. Otherwise, I can't see a thief spending a proficiency for wakizashis (which are pretty rare).

    4) Cool.

    5) Yes. Also - every class can get proficiency with and use clubs (not necessarily use maces/morningstars). To quote the club item description: "Anyone can find a good stout piece of wood and swing it"

    6) Cool.

  • AquadrizztAquadrizzt Member Posts: 970
    Here's how I would do it (very similar to your strategy actually). (This is assuming that you can completely overhaul proficiency groupings to fit your desires.)

    If you don't want any "exotic" categories:
    - Basic: staffs, clubs, dagger
    - Heavy Blades: two-handed swords, bastard swords, katanas
    - Long Blades: longswords, scimitars
    - Short Blades: shortswords, ninja-to, wakazashi
    - Axes: axes
    - Polearms: spears, halberds
    - Maces: hammers, maces
    - Flails: flails, morningstars
    - Bows: longbows, shortbows, crossbows
    - Light Throwing: throwing daggers, dart, sling
    - Heavy Throwing: throwing axes, throwing hammers

    IMO, axes has enough variety and good items among all tiers that it might warrant their own category. I think separating thrown (daggers/axes/hammers) from their melee counterparts should also occur, as the skill required to throw knives is definitely different than the skill required to stab with a knife.

    Here is how I would suggest for basic class setups.
    - Mage: Basic, Light Thrown
    - Rogue: Basic, Light Thrown, Short Blades, Long Blades, Bows
    - Priest: Basic, Light Thrown, Maces, Flails
    - Druid: Basic, Light Thrown, Polearms, Long Blades (staffs, clubs, scimitars, spears, darts, slings only).
    - Warriors: Any

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  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,145

    Hopefully it's not too much work! With the 12 weapons above consolidated, I'd only have to change 6 of them. COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB halberds, WRITE_BYTE spear proficiency. Then COPY_EXISTING all .CREs, READ_BYTE for everyone with halberd proficiency, WRITE_BYTE to give spear proficiency in addition. Six times. Hopefully it's as simple as it sounds. I have some research to do!

    COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
    PATCH_IF (SOURCE_SIZE > 0x71) BEGIN
    READ_BYTE 0x31 prof
    PATCH_IF prof = 99 BEGIN
    WRITE_BYTE 0x31 98
    END
    END
    BUT_ONLY

    COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.cre~ ~override~
    PATCH_IF (SOURCE_SIZE > 0x2c8) BEGIN
    READ_LONG 0x2c4 "effect_offset"
    READ_LONG 0x2c8 "effect_count"
    FOR (loop = 0 ; loop < effect_count ; ++loop) BEGIN
    READ_LONG (effect_offset + 0x10 + (loop * 0x110)) "opcode"
    PATCH_IF opcode = 233 BEGIN
    READ_LONG (effect_offset + 0x20 + (loop * 0x110)) prof
    PATCH_IF prof = 99 BEGIN
    WRITE_LONG (effect_offset + 0x20 + (loop * 0x110)) 98
    END
    END
    END
    END
    BUT_ONLY

    Grammarsalad
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    CrevsDaakGrammarsalad
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