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Would you buy Icewind Dale II: Enhanced Edition?

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Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 4,236
    Meh, probably not...
    I could never get into IWD2 even though I've tried multiple times.

    I have it currently installed on my lap top but rarely give it the time it needs to play to completion.

    I have too many games like that already. Purchasing another one, that I already own no less, isn't in my best interest.

    I am however allowed to change my mind on the subject depending what gets implemented.
    Shikaojackjack
  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I've said this before: overhaul/beamdog has yet to let me down, so they get a preorder from me on their next project.
    Silverstar
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Fardragon said:

    Still have IWD2 from when it first released. It still works fine, and I am still unable to complete the main campaign before boredom sets in.

    Nice character creation, shame about the game.

    Wait.. you completed multiple runs of IWD / IWD:EE but IWD2 bores you? That needs some further elaboration... ;D

    Imho IWD2 basically has all the pros and cons of the original IWD but it's using 3E rules which are better than 2E on so many levels.
    ShikaoGrammarsalad
  • FeytorFeytor Member Posts: 57
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I would buy and play it for sure if they use the 2E ruleset. With 3E I'm not so sure. Hated NWN for example.


    MiridorWandering_Minstrel
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 4,236
    Meh, probably not...
    MrGoodkat said:

    Fardragon said:

    Still have IWD2 from when it first released. It still works fine, and I am still unable to complete the main campaign before boredom sets in.

    Nice character creation, shame about the game.

    Wait.. you completed multiple runs of IWD / IWD:EE but IWD2 bores you? That needs some further elaboration... ;D

    Imho IWD2 basically has all the pros and cons of the original IWD but it's using 3E rules which are better than 2E on so many levels.
    One of my let downs with the game is its introduction to 3rd edition rules and the games massive character creation choices. It is possible to make some very wrong choices from the get go and if you are unfamiliar with the edition rules it can be very daunting.

    On my first play through I wanted to try as many classes and races as possible spreading out my skill points to as many skills as possible. I didn't want to min max my characters, but the game almost forces you to do so, unlike BG and the first IWD.

    And unlike NWN that has your one character on cruise control, it forces the same hard tactics that baldurs gate 2 and the first IWD had.

    By the time you realize your party isn't going to handle the tactics you already invested a couple of hours into the game. Restarting and replaying the beginning can be daunting for a linear RPG like IWD2.

    It gets put on the shelf for a couple of months until you attempt it again but it just doesn't have the same feel as the second addition games so it always feels off when I attempt to replace it.
    elminsterWandering_MinstrelIrbis
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @deltago: But... but.. 3E rules are *so* good once you get the hang of it. And you're missing out on a lot of great games if you don't familiarize yourself with them.
    ShikaoFinneousPJAedan
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,016
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I am of the camp that I'd probably buy it because I am a completionist and wish to support the DEVs in future endeavors. However, I was not a huge fan of them switching to 3E for that game. it broke the immersion for me because I am a 2E/Advanced guy all the way.

    So I wouldn't go all gung-ho on it. But neither would I miss out on purchasing the game.
    MiridorWandering_MinstrelFeytor
  • LazarusNineLazarusNine Member Posts: 41
    edited November 2014
    Give me Planescape Torment first. Also, I would prefer to have the BG:EE UI, because the PST and IWD2 UIs were atrocious. I would buy both/either, however, simply because I like the option of having iPad versions of these games alongside PC versions. Playing IWD and BG/2 in bed is great, save for some annoyances in the tablet versions of the games...
    cbarker15
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 4,236
    Meh, probably not...
    MrGoodkat said:

    @deltago: But... but.. 3E rules are *so* good once you get the hang of it. And you're missing out on a lot of great games if you don't familiarize yourself with them.

    Once you get the hang of it...
    As an introduction to the rules, which IWD2 was for many infinity game players, it failed miserably.
    The best thing about 3E rules is it customability (not a word). The heavy tactics that IWD2 delivered didn't allow this. You were pretty much forced to min max your characters, and then min max your party to optimization. Mistakes in character creation, couldn't be made up with NPCs like BG did or even NWN did. You had to get it right from the get go or you'd be screwed.

    Yes after I played NWN and familiarized myself with IWD2, I gave it another try. But the game couldn't keep me engaged as much as an open world that Baldur's Gate is, or the feeling of purpose that BG2 had. It also didn't have the simplicity and familiarity that the first IWD had. Every time I go back to it, it is the same thing. I got past the airship crashing once, and then, not far afterwards until I went on another game.

    Besides NWN and NWN2 (another game I couldn't complete mostly due to the camera) and ToEE, which had a good combat system but horrible writing, what other games use 3rd edition? Because 3rd is only batting .25 for me in games completed.

    Wandering_Minstrel
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I think if you had a person who had never played a D&D game before, they would find IWD2 easier to pick up and play than BG2. BG2 is complicated - it is very unclear about what a particular stat will do for your character. For instance, a newbie would assume that a sorcerer with 18 constitution is better than a sorcerer with 16 constitution. This is true in IWD2 but not in BG2. Or, that a fighter with 13 dexterity is better than a fighter with 8 dexterity. This is true in IWD2 but not in BG2.

    The first time I played IWD2, I definitely did not min max, and I did okay. You don't need to. Fighters don't need dexterity if they are wearing heavy armor - in fact, they can't benefit from it. The one thing I will say is that it is best for newbies to steer clear of multiclassing in IWD2, because if you don't know what you are doing, you will get experience penalties.

    IWD2 included several pre-made parties that I think would also help. If you aren't sure about character creation, then use one of them.

    But yes, while the game does not force you to min max, it is a good idea to keep your characters focused and not spread their skill points around. This is no different to what you would do in BG2, if you think about it. The difference is that IWD2 allows you the option of having a sorcerer take the power attack feat. Or you could create a mage with 7 intelligence, if you wanted to. In BG2, it is impossible to give thieving skills to anyone but a thief. In IWD2, you can give thieving skills to anyone. In fact, in IWD2, it is generally recommended to take a wizard instead of a rogue, since they provide all of the skill points you would ever need.

    The one thing that I prefer about IWD2 is the scenarios, pacing and maps. IWD gets a bit much when you are on level 5 of a dungeon. IWD2 has more interesting and less repetitive maps in comparison. The scenario design is better. IWD2 also has you spending more time outdoors, which to me is the best use of the location. In IWD1, you spend too much time inside stuffy tombs.
    ShikaoMrGoodkatScottfree9000
  • jimmysdabestcopjimmysdabestcop Member Posts: 74
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I wonder what would take longer to make IWD2 EE or a brand new D&D IP
  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 212
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Yep 3e was hard and no fun for me. You have to min max in order to survive, can't even make a good fighter/mage build, even those new stoneskins were disappointment.
    the_spyderWandering_Minstrel
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @Ancalagon44: You pretty much nailed it. 3E is much more intuitive and makes more sense. It's just when you're used to AD&D/2E it can take a while to get the hang of it. But once you do it's ever so rewarding.

    Btw. now that you mention it, some of the pre-made parties in IWD2 are really really good. Not only do they have a background story and biographies for each character, they also have pretty strong characters. One has a 20str half-orc Fighter and a 20str half-orc Barbarian or something. If you play on 'Core' these guys will win the game for you on their own.

    @kensai: Not sure if you're being sarcastic since you voted 'yes' but everything you say is wrong imho. You don't need to min max if you play on 'Core' - you just can't do extremely stupid stuff on every character. The difference between 2E and 3E is that 3E *let's* you botch a character almost completely if you really try, while 2E protects you from it to a certain extent. But even in 2E you can mess up your character or party if you want to. A party of 6 Thieves with all points spent on pickpocket are gonna have hard time - does that mean you have to min max to succeed?

    Strong Fighter/Mage build? No problem. Male Drow => Fight 1 => Wiz 1 => Fight 4 => Wiz 26 or Wiz 20 => Fight 10

    New Stoneskin? It changes the spell from being ludicrously overpowered to a strong one with certain weaknesses. How is that a disappointment?
    Shikao
  • jimmysdabestcopjimmysdabestcop Member Posts: 74
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Some dislike from 3E comes from PnP I think for people. Eventually everyone was some kind of exception type character. All of these wacky combinations and Prestige Classes etc. A lot more "monster" type classes. Everyone was a multiclass. It did become kind of crazy. Wasnt there like 40 Fighter Presitge classes you could go into. I mean damn there was like 20 Draconian classes for petes sake or something like that.

    But Bards were way better in 3E I thought.

    I think 3 and 3.5 in Bioware/Black Isle games wasn't bad because most people played it single player and if you had crazy classes it made it interesting.

    Unlike you weekly/biweekly PnP session. With 7 outrageous characters running around. Oh we hay a Red Dragon, Half Ogre, and an Angelic being in party. Great just great.


    jackjack
  • _marotte_marotte Member Posts: 5
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Speaking of Icewind Dale2, I've been playing it recently again but having a problem with my cursor constantly flicking/flashing, it is well annoying - does anyone know a fix to it?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,797
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @jimmysdabestcop‌ Blame your DM, not the rules.
    by_the_swordPhilhelm
  • kensaikensai Member Posts: 212
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    MrGoodkat said:


    @kensai: Not sure if you're being sarcastic since you voted 'yes' but everything you say is wrong imho. You don't need to min max if you play on 'Core' - you just can't do extremely stupid stuff on every character. The difference between 2E and 3E is that 3E *let's* you botch a character almost completely if you really try, while 2E protects you from it to a certain extent. But even in 2E you can mess up your character or party if you want to. A party of 6 Thieves with all points spent on pickpocket are gonna have hard time - does that mean you have to min max to succeed?

    Well I'll buy it if developers made a conversion to adnd2 edition. Because I like that edition, it's simple and effective for me, with good kits and mods.
    And yes I like to min max and playing on higher difficulties.
    MrGoodkat said:


    New Stoneskin? It changes the spell from being ludicrously overpowered to a strong one with certain weaknesses. How is that a disappointment?

    Overpowered? Maybe! But I'm used to it, to playing with this spell or against it.
    At least in adnd2 it's a unique spell not another boring damage resistance spell.
    MrGoodkat said:


    Strong Fighter/Mage build? No problem. Male Drow => Fight 1 => Wiz 1 => Fight 4 => Wiz 26 or Wiz 20 => Fight 10

    f\m with +2 ECL wasn't a good build imho.
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @kensai: F/M has always been a class that excels in solo scenarios or small parties so XP shouldn't be an issue. But if you're *that* worried about ECL you can always go for dwarf/human/half-elf/moon elf. You will lose a few stat points but that's not a big deal.

    Since you're probably not going to play the game the way it is it probably doesn't matter anyway. =)
    kensaiShikao
  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    _marotte said:

    Speaking of Icewind Dale2, I've been playing it recently again but having a problem with my cursor constantly flicking/flashing, it is well annoying - does anyone know a fix to it?

    @_marotte‌ No idea how to fix it but i've had that problem or a similar problem with vanilla BG1. Does the cursor flash between moving and attacking?
  • _marotte_marotte Member Posts: 5
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    wubble said:

    _marotte said:

    Speaking of Icewind Dale2, I've been playing it recently again but having a problem with my cursor constantly flicking/flashing, it is well annoying - does anyone know a fix to it?

    @_marotte‌ No idea how to fix it but i've had that problem or a similar problem with vanilla BG1. Does the cursor flash between moving and attacking?
    @wubble It's fine for a minute or so when I start the game and then just starts randomly flashing and doesn't stop regardless of what I'm doing. It is well annoying lol :(
  • ifupaulineifupauline Member Posts: 393
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I won't play the shit out of this game but i would definitely play it. A DROW A DROWWWWWW
    ShikaoScottfree9000
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,797
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Is there shit in a game?
    JuliusBorisovSirBundlesofJoy_1912
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Try something called Direct Draw Fix. It is a mod that will help.

    Basically you need to disable DirectDraw acceleration when running IWD2, or run it in an older operating system such as Win XP.
    _marotte
  • FandraxxFandraxx Member Posts: 140
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    I haven't played much of iwd 2 but i probably would if there was an enhanced edition
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,016
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @MrGoodkat - I won't go so far as to make any claims about how "Good" (or 'bad') 3E is. I played for years on NWN and NWN2 and had some good times with it. I will say that your opinion of "Not having to min/max" is somewhat unique. Sure you CAN spoil a character by taking the wrong choices, but once you know the rules a bit, no one does. They min/max, and that "To me" ruins the role play.

    And that only strengthens the argument against it in my mind. With IWD2, if you don't know the rules fairly well, you end up very quickly with a borked party, in a decent number of cases. So the example of someone who doesn't know 3E being 'Better suited' to IWD2 seems a bit flawed. There are more chances to utterly fail with 3E and a lack of knowledge.

    But at the same time, 2E allows you to play the game without needing to worry that you stared out your Fighter without a 19 STR. I routinely play a Wizard in BG with less than IDEAL stats and he is still friggin AWESOME, power wise. That is almost never the case with 3E.

    Before this turns into a 2E vs 3E debate, I acknowledge that 3E has it's merits. I stand by the fact that it was jarring when that got shoe-horned into the series when 2E was doing fine in the previous 5 incarnations.
    jackjackby_the_sword
  • MrGoodkatMrGoodkat Member Posts: 167
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @the_spyder: Not sure what you count as "incarnation of the series" but the way I see it IWD and BG don't really have anything to do with each other. So jumping from 2E to 3E wasn't that big of a break as you make it out to be.

    It made sense at the time too. IWD2 was released shortly after NWN, so it was to be expected that a lot of D&D fans had already familiarized themselves with the new rules. In addition 3E *is* easier to learn, more intuitive and makes more sense in so many ways than 2E.

    You can still like 2E better, that's your choice, and I admit that it does have a unique charm. But believe me, for someone new to D&D, 2E looks almost stupid. Everything is so random. There is no system to it.

    Btw. I finished my first run of IWD2 on 'Insane' with a *trash* party and it was still feasible. Back then I was new to 3E too.

    My party of 5 looked something like this:

    Drow Monk: This guy had terrible stats. I remember having 14 int and charisma because he was my party leader and I wanted him to be socially competent. Not to mention that Drow is less than ideal for a Monk for various reason. (+2ECL, overlapping spell resistance, etc.)
    Cleric: Don't remember race and stats, but I remember no char had under 10 int or charisma for role-playing reasons.
    Druid: See Cleric.
    Drow Sorcerer: +2 ECL on a sorcerer is *horrible*, especially in a party >4.
    Last one: *Pretty* sure this one was a Rogue.

    I also took conversation feats etc. which is one of the ways to "mess up" a chracter.
    Shikao
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    I would totally play the shit out of this game

    @MrGoodkat - I won't go so far as to make any claims about how "Good" (or 'bad') 3E is. I played for years on NWN and NWN2 and had some good times with it. I will say that your opinion of "Not having to min/max" is somewhat unique. Sure you CAN spoil a character by taking the wrong choices, but once you know the rules a bit, no one does. They min/max, and that "To me" ruins the role play.

    2E also allows for min maxing. Most characters dont need wisdom, charisma or intelligence. You can safely have a sorcerer with 18 strength, 16 con, 18 dex, and 3 in every other stat. It is only if you want him to talk that you have a problem.

    For most physical stats, if a stat would come out to 14, you can safely decrease it to 7 with literally no impact to the character.

    Once you know the rules of 2E, you will never have a character with 14 con or dex. You can safely decrease those stats to 7 with literally no impact. That is minmaxing to me.

    So both rulesystems allow for minmaxing.

    And that only strengthens the argument against it in my mind. With IWD2, if you don't know the rules fairly well, you end up very quickly with a borked party, in a decent number of cases. So the example of someone who doesn't know 3E being 'Better suited' to IWD2 seems a bit flawed. There are more chances to utterly fail with 3E and a lack of knowledge.
    Myself and a lot of people who didnt know 3E when we started created parties perfectly fine. Mine were definitely non optimal choices - I had a cleric of Lathander with 18 wisdom and 18 charisma solely for turning undead. I still coped fine. Everyone who has had problems with IWD2's 3E ruleset has been a hardcore 2E player before trying 3E, and I think that is where the confusion sets in.

    A newbie to D&D would find it much easier to understand because higher AC is better, and higher base attack bonus is better.

    I played BG2 and got all the way to the underdark having absolutely no idea what THAC0 meant.
    ShikaoMrGoodkatGrammarsaladIrbis
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,938
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    Wowo said:

    Queegon said:

    Planescape:Torment would have to happen first. I'd play the hell out of that one!

    I never played either so I'd play the shit out of whichever came first.
    IWD2 is "yet another D&D game", a good one, but nothing more.
    Planescape: Torment is completely different. It's a masterpiece. It's unique. If you have never played it, you definitely have never played something like that.
    You may hate it (many people don't like it, and it's ok), but it's a new experience.

    So I will definitely buy IWD2EE, but I'm eagerly waiting for P:T EE iPad version. So please do it before anything else!!!
    Irbis
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,016
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    MrGoodkat said:

    @the_spyder: Not sure what you count as "incarnation of the series" but the way I see it IWD and BG don't really have anything to do with each other. So jumping from 2E to 3E wasn't that big of a break as you make it out to be.

    incarnations of the engine then.
    MrGoodkat said:

    It made sense at the time too. IWD2 was released shortly after NWN, so it was to be expected that a lot of D&D fans had already familiarized themselves with the new rules. In addition 3E *is* easier to learn, more intuitive and makes more sense in so many ways than 2E.

    It made sense from the perspective that they had already launched 3E and wanted to sell more units of the PnP game, so any franchise was going to go 3E. From an engine perspective, it made less sense. From a 'fans of the BG series' it made less sense.


    So both rulesystems allow for minmaxing.

    Oh, no doubt. Both systems "Allow" for min/maxing. 3E is designed AROUND you doing so. Not so much with 2E.


    Myself and a lot of people who didnt know 3E when we started created parties perfectly fine. Mine were definitely non optimal choices - I had a cleric of Lathander with 18 wisdom and 18 charisma solely for turning undead. I still coped fine. Everyone who has had problems with IWD2's 3E ruleset has been a hardcore 2E player before trying 3E, and I think that is where the confusion sets in.

    A newbie to D&D would find it much easier to understand because higher AC is better, and higher base attack bonus is better.

    I played BG2 and got all the way to the underdark having absolutely no idea what THAC0 meant.

    To be clear, I am not trying to trash 3E, nor to say that you "Can't play IWD2 without learning it." Nor even that IWD2 was a poor game for having 3E. Far from any of that. I was merely commenting that I saw "from a gamer perspective" and "from a fan of the Engine and BG/IWD/PST" perspective, the change in the rules set was a bit jarring. Someone who had played all three BG games and the first IWD game was probably pretty familiar with the game mechanics and thus having to learn a different system just to play the next iteration of a series that they had already spent considerable time playing just seemed a bit of a strange choice.

    And yeah, 2E has it's quirks as well. It is far from perfect. And something Fresh can often times breath life into a flagging series. Just saying that 3E wasn't this MAGIC bullet and I personally would have preferred 2E. Nuff said. I do not intend this to derail the thread into a 2E vs 3E.
    wubble
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 4,797
    I would totally play the shit out of this game
    @the_spyder Now you're being silly. You can't say 3ed is designed around mimaxing with any credibility.
    MrGoodkat
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