I don't know how others feel about it, but I really hate the Neolithid fight in SOD, and not just because it's hard. It's just so...un-Baldur's Gate to have an enemy that flat-out refuses to fight you without a massive advantage, and that there's absolutely no countermeasures for if it's underground. Most everything else this game throws at you, you can make yourself immune to it or take that advantage away somehow, but for burrowing, there's nothing. And unlike Ankhegs, it can fight from under there, often so effectively that it's kind of stupid for it to surface at all. It could spend an entire fight under there, follow you around and keep summoning swords, and even the best-prepared party would probably be screwed.
I actually think that was the real intent @Ardanis , could you share some insights?
By that, you mean we were never supposed to be able to kill it at all? Given its teleportation, we were just supposed to clear the rest of the dungeon with that thing pestering us constantly, preventing us from saving or buffing in peace? Huh.
The real problem is that neothelid doesn't have a normal ranged attack, so it can't just stay up and shoot away like an ankheg, and has to close in for melee. It takes awhile to burrow/emerge, though, so doing it straight would open the creature to a lot of opportunity attacks while it can't respond. So, the "intended" would be having to fend off its swords and psionics while waiting for it to surface.
My problem is that the neolithid has basically no reason to ever surface. The only attacks it can't use while burrowing are its slam attack and its breath weapon, of which only the latter is a real loss. Otherwise, it can still spew that poison gunk, still mind control party members, and summon Mordenkainen's swords, all with unlimited uses. Surfacing is objectively a tactical error on its part.
Surfacing is objectively a tactical error on its part.
In their defense, Neolithids aren't smart. They're ilithid tadpoles that have grown too much by eating other tadpoles and they eventually become that creepy giant worm , and consequently they don't develop intelligence like an illithid does. Also, as mindless predators resistant to mental attacks, Neolithids can't be taken as slaves or pets by the mind flayers , who make sure that every tadpole that grows above its average size is destroyed .
I don't know how others feel about it, but I really hate the Neolithid fight in SOD, and not just because it's hard. It's just so...un-Baldur's Gate to have an enemy that flat-out refuses to fight you without a massive advantage, and that there's absolutely no countermeasures for if it's underground. Most everything else this game throws at you, you can make yourself immune to it or take that advantage away somehow, but for burrowing, there's nothing. And unlike Ankhegs, it can fight from under there, often so effectively that it's kind of stupid for it to surface at all. It could spend an entire fight under there, follow you around and keep summoning swords, and even the best-prepared party would probably be screwed.
Divine spellcasters are your friends here, Clerics and Grubdoubler in particular. Farsight spam + Animate Dead = trivial Neolithid (it can't pass through the door very easily). You just need to lure the swords out to where your actual party can deal with them while the skeletons harass the 'lithid.
Surfacing is objectively a tactical error on its part.
In their defense, Neolithids aren't smart. They're ilithid tadpoles that have grown too much by eating other tadpoles and they eventually become that creepy giant worm , and consequently they don't develop intelligence like an illithid does. Also, as mindless predators resistant to mental attacks, Neolithids can't be taken as slaves or pets by the mind flayers , who make sure that every tadpole that grows above its average size is destroyed .
While normally true, if the neothelid in question is using psionic powers then it is intelligent, and has devoured a sentient creature to make both those things happen. In 2e it has "genius (17-18)" level intelligence.
Of course:
"Unlike some other large predators of the underdark neothelids an unable to burrow through solid rock, forcing them to hunt naturally or previously delved tunnels and caverns. When a local subterrineai ecosystem is exhausted, neothelids may move to “greener” tunnels via their psychoportive abilities."
Surfacing is objectively a tactical error on its part.
In their defense, Neolithids aren't smart. They're ilithid tadpoles that have grown too much by eating other tadpoles and they eventually become that creepy giant worm , and consequently they don't develop intelligence like an illithid does. Also, as mindless predators resistant to mental attacks, Neolithids can't be taken as slaves or pets by the mind flayers , who make sure that every tadpole that grows above its average size is destroyed .
While normally true, if the neothelid in question is using psionic powers then it is intelligent, and has devoured a sentient creature to make both those things happen. In 2e it has "genius (17-18)" level intelligence.
Of course:
"Unlike some other large predators of the underdark neothelids an unable to burrow through solid rock, forcing them to hunt naturally or previously delved tunnels and caverns. When a local subterrineai ecosystem is exhausted, neothelids may move to “greener” tunnels via their psychoportive abilities."
My information is based on 5th edition's volo's guide to monsters. Neo's have Intelligence 3 there.
My information is based on 5th edition's volo's guide to monsters. Neo's have Intelligence 3 there.
Mine is based on the AD&D monster stats available online, where they're listed as having a genius intellect and specifically being unable to burrow, and the 3.5 srd, where they are given 16 intelligence and no burrow speed. I can try and find the appropriate 2e manual if you like, but it will take a bit.
My information is based on 5th edition's volo's guide to monsters. Neo's have Intelligence 3 there.
Mine is based on the AD&D monster stats available online, where they're listed as having a genius intellect and specifically being unable to burrow, and the 3.5 srd, where they are given 16 intelligence and no burrow speed. I can try and find the appropriate 2e manual if you like, but it will take a bit.
The neothelid is one of my favorites in the series. It has an otherworldly quality about it, in appearance, and in it's non standard way of fighting. This is one of those creatures I wouldn't mind seeing a sanity check on (confusion or some such thing). If the illithids did not try to hunt them down as the abominations they are they would make one heckuva team.
I would still like to play @ulb 's Far Realm Seer (on the back burner for now), as it is a shaman that uses miniature neothelids as summons (representative of entities from the maddening Far Realm) Immunity to fear due to looking into the Far Realm, and a little less resistant to enchantment spells due to same.
So in case you all haven't seen their latest beamblog, Beamdog said if they were to make a new dungeons and dragons game. It would be with 5E. Now, i don't know about you guys, but i think 5e would make a pretty awful gameplay style for a video game. It's so devolved of content that earlier editions had with their supplementary books and what not.
Another thing would be dumb things like ability score cap at 20. No, not level 20 but infact 20 score in a specific attribute. It would be the easiest way to get me not to play/buy it. Please if you do make a new dungeons and dragons game. Stick with 3.5. That would be great to play with.
So in case you all haven't seen their latest beamblog, Beamdog said if they were to make a new dungeons and dragons game. It would be with 5E. Now, i don't know about you guys, but i think 5e would make a pretty awful gameplay style for a video game. It's so devolved of content that earlier editions had with their supplementary books and what not.
Another thing would be dumb things like ability score cap at 20. No, not level 20 but infact 20 score in a specific attribute. It would be the easiest way to get me not to play/buy it. Please if you do make a new dungeons and dragons game. Stick with 3.5. That would be great to play with.
They don't have a choice. WoTC won't greenlight any new game that isn't 5.0. That's why SoD had to be an expansion.
@TranscendedOne Wizards of the Coast won't allow any new DnD game to use an older ruleset. Its out of Beamdog's hands. Though, why would having ability scores cap at 20 be such a deal breaker?
Wild Mages are boring. Wild surges are rare and most of them are not very interesting--they just paralyze you or drop a Fireball or impose some tiny effect you wouldn't even notice if the dialogue box didn't tell you it happened.
I did try and use Nahal's Reckless Dweomer plus that one Cloudkill scroll you can find on an early map to try and turn Neera into a Disk One Nuke, but it didn't work. Why? Because of the wild surge. It didn't matter whether the surge was good or bad on the whole, but it would always, always cancel the spell I was trying to cast. Maybe at higher levels that works a little better, but at those levels, it's also a lot less valuable. Feh.
@TranscendedOne Wizards of the Coast won't allow any new DnD game to use an older ruleset. Its out of Beamdog's hands. Though, why would having ability scores cap at 20 be such a deal breaker?
Because, 5e is pretty much a game where you take a lot of the fun of theory crafting with various different builds and just say screw it, I don't want players to optimize and get a certain power level. That is why. Another reason is the lack of content. How simplistic things are that you can't do certain things. I don't even think you can craft. No feat system. Well you have an optional pitiful amount of feats the gm can use.
Moral of the story is, it is only good for running one small campaign for people who have never played a table top before. If you want depth, then you'll have a lot to be desired.
@TranscendedOne how does having 20 be the max stat prevent different builds? It wouldn't even make characters weaker, as the game would be balanced around those stat levels anyway.
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So, the "intended" would be having to fend off its swords and psionics while waiting for it to surface.
Farsight spam + Animate Dead = trivial Neolithid (it can't pass through the door very easily). You just need to lure the swords out to where your actual party can deal with them while the skeletons harass the 'lithid.
Of course:
"Unlike some other large predators of the underdark neothelids an unable to burrow through solid rock, forcing them to hunt naturally or previously delved tunnels and caverns. When a local subterrineai ecosystem is exhausted, neothelids may move to “greener” tunnels via their psychoportive abilities."
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/neotheli.php
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/neothelid.htm
I would still like to play @ulb 's Far Realm Seer (on the back burner for now), as it is a shaman that uses miniature neothelids as summons (representative of entities from the maddening Far Realm) Immunity to fear due to looking into the Far Realm, and a little less resistant to enchantment spells due to same.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/55695/ulbs-shaman-package-new-kits-new-items-and-more-wip-updated-08-02-2017#latest
I've run every shaman kit cept that, and that one is my holy grail.
Another thing would be dumb things like ability score cap at 20. No, not level 20 but infact 20 score in a specific attribute. It would be the easiest way to get me not to play/buy it. Please if you do make a new dungeons and dragons game. Stick with 3.5. That would be great to play with.
This game music is awesome of course. But the quiet is really nice also.
Moral of the story is, it is only good for running one small campaign for people who have never played a table top before. If you want depth, then you'll have a lot to be desired.