@Wise_Grimwald While there were definitely some parts I really disliked, and seriously what were they thinking with the scene where the spider falls into Jaheira's cleavage
Pics* or it din't happen!
(*of the page or pages in question.)
do you really think i would make up something like this? it is unfortunately a very real scene
Okay, the author's lack of access to the source material excuses Jaheira being portrayed as an arachnophobic sissy. Athans had no way of knowing Jaheira was supposed to be strong and resilient. But the author's tight deadline doesn't excuse the weak writing.
@semiticgod I sort of agree with that and I did admit that areas like this had notably weak writing. Though, I'd be quicker to excuse the writing being poor in parts because of the deadline and because the publishers published his first draft without his consent, effectively robbing him of any chance to refine it. And as someone who writes I can tell you that first drafts are almost always weaker writing-wise. I'd be less likely to forgive his portrayal of Jaheira because even if he didn't have much information on her, he DID know she was a druid. Super in tune with nature and all that.
However, for the most part, the writing wasn't really that weak - the level of writing skill was on par with most Cheesy Generic Pulp Fantasy Novels of its type and I did enjoy reading it.
My unpopular opinion wasn't that the book was good. It was that it wasn't the horrible sin against humanity much of the fandom paints it as, and it doesn't deserve the amount of flak it gets, which is far more than other books of comparable quality. It wasn't so much bad as it was "okay". And, like I said, there were quite a few scenes in it that I actually enjoyed. The Spider Boob Scene was, however, not one of them.
I would rather there not be a spider boob scene at all. It's tacky and a REALLY OBVIOUS excuse for getting a female character at least partially naked, no matter how it's written.
I mean unless by spider boob we're talking about an actual spider with boobs, because then that's just a typical day in the Underdark.
I'd question the purpose of trying to entertain the male gaze in a novel in the first place. Reading novels for their erotic content simply isn't a thing that men usually do. If you really wanted to include something erotic in a book, the target audience should be women.
More importantly, how does fabric tear "with an echoing sound?"
"Okay," said Jaheira, matter-of-factly, taking her blouse back from Abdel, "That's taken care of. Let's go." Abdel stood silent, staring at her breasts. "...Eyes up here, Abdel. Now, let's get a move on."
And then at that moment, Xan came crashing out from the bushes, convinced by this point the two were surely under attack and about to meet their untimely ends, just before Jaheira got her top back on. He was literally the only one there who got flustered and embarrassed, but instead of apologizing for walking in on such a moment, played it off with snark and a list of all the ways they could and probably would die out here. Then he tripped on a rock, took 2 damage from the ground, and died. Because, I mean, he's Xan. Honestly, we have no idea how he even managed to survive this long. Abdel and Jaheira continued on towards the Cloakwood Mines in awkward silence. Abdel tried to check Jaheira out at least once on the way but she put a stop to that right quick. The end.
I'd question the purpose of trying to entertain the male gaze in a novel in the first place. Reading novels for their erotic content simply isn't a thing that men usually do. If you really wanted to include something erotic in a book, the target audience should be women.
More importantly, how does fabric tear "with an echoing sound?"
you haven't read many fantasy novels have you? I guarantee you if the author is a man he is going to get one of his female characters topless in some erotic manner at least once in his book. The Sword of Truth series in particular was REALLY bad about it. Even in the first book, there was questionable stuff, but like, I couldn't finish the fourth book. The sexual content and violence against women got to be WAY too much. Like it got worse with each book, it was horrible. A real shame too, because I was totally invested in the story by the time it went from "annoying fanservice" to straight up disturbing.
but like even with just like sexual stuff? It is in most fantasy novels. Heck its in a lot of Forgotten Realms fantasy novels, ESPECIALLY if it's one by Ed Greenwood. And believe me, as a lady who's been into D&D and a lot of related fandoms near her whole life, I have met a LOT of guys who get their jollies while reading these kinds of books. Sure, they're also in it for the story, but that doesn't mean they're not also out to get their jollies because they know they got sexy stuff to look forward to at least once in that new fantasy book they picked up.
you haven't read many fantasy novels have you? I guarantee you if the author is a man he is going to get one of his female characters topless in some erotic manner at least once in his book.
Yeah... as a man who's currently re-re-re-writing a fantasy book, I believe you. I think it's just the work of the male writer's mind wandering around. Sooner or later that wandering mind is going to settle on something sexual, and into the book it goes. Without a strong revisions process, that sort of thing never gets weeded out in the re-writes.
My protagonist is a young woman and I've been making a point of keeping things appropriate to her perspective in that sense.
Okay, the author's lack of access to the source material excuses Jaheira being portrayed as an arachnophobic sissy. Athans had no way of knowing Jaheira was supposed to be strong and resilient. But the author's tight deadline doesn't excuse the weak writing.
Okay, the author's lack of access to the source material excuses Jaheira being portrayed as an arachnophobic sissy. Athans had no way of knowing Jaheira was supposed to be strong and resilient. But the author's tight deadline doesn't excuse the weak writing.
Okay, the author's lack of access to the source material excuses Jaheira being portrayed as an arachnophobic sissy. Athans had no way of knowing Jaheira was supposed to be strong and resilient. But the author's tight deadline doesn't excuse the weak writing.
Okay, the author's lack of access to the source material excuses Jaheira being portrayed as an arachnophobic sissy. Athans had no way of knowing Jaheira was supposed to be strong and resilient. But the author's tight deadline doesn't excuse the weak writing.
"Weak" writing? You are being too kind.
"A tear burst from her eye"
Is english the author's first language?
Or does Jaheira have a very severe, possibly terminal, case of conjunctivitis?
Yeah, the Sword of Truth novels really aren't worth reading past the first book. The first book is just SO good for the most part that you think "surely it can't get that bad" and then EVERY SINGLE ONE just gets worse, and worse...
It reads well actually. Almost cartoonlike such that I don't have to think about complex descriptions, and it is very forgetful. Only why did he just not throw away the spider but flatten it instead? I really must read these books. I want more now!
Ugh. It's so awkward and obvious when the author is popping a narrative boner and you can tell when they're writing that they're really into it. Like George R. R. Martin and all the kiddy sex.
Also: Rewritten to be out of character, but 100% accurate:
Jaheira: ... Abdel: Everything okay? Jaheira: Yes, it's fine, a spider just fell in the cleavage of my ankheg plate which is present on all female armour for some reason. Abdel: You uh, you want to take off your shirt and get it out? Jaheira: Why? I'm a druid, spiders are part of nature too, and rarely bite unless agitated. See? It's climbing out now. Abdel: OMFG IT'S THE SIZE OF MY HEEAAAAAD. T_T Jaheira: Yes, yes, now let's get a move on. Goodbye little spider friend. Xan: We're all doomed. Spider: *Bites Xan for 1 HP.* Xan: Told you so. *Dies.* Abdel: Great, now who's going to carry this party?
Anyway...
Min 1HP items should never be used. Ever. Not least because RAISE DEAD EXISTS. If it's really, really important that arbitrary villain #7 be alive, just have them be raised for the next scene, or have their body be taken from you and raised in a hellish dungeon. It's lazy, sloppy writing and there's no excuse for it.
@Wise_Grimwald While there were definitely some parts I really disliked, and seriously what were they thinking with the scene where the spider falls into Jaheira's cleavage
Pics* or it din't happen!
(*of the page or pages in question.)
do you really think i would make up something like this? it is unfortunately a very real scene
Ah, two-thirds through the first draft, that magical phase of writing when a young author's thoughts turn, invariably, towards boobies.
Comments
Whoa there, @chimeric !
Typo Tilly wins the thread.
do you really think i would make up something like this?
it is unfortunately a very real scene
However, for the most part, the writing wasn't really that weak - the level of writing skill was on par with most Cheesy Generic Pulp Fantasy Novels of its type and I did enjoy reading it.
My unpopular opinion wasn't that the book was good. It was that it wasn't the horrible sin against humanity much of the fandom paints it as, and it doesn't deserve the amount of flak it gets, which is far more than other books of comparable quality. It wasn't so much bad as it was "okay". And, like I said, there were quite a few scenes in it that I actually enjoyed. The Spider Boob Scene was, however, not one of them.
I mean unless by spider boob we're talking about an actual spider with boobs, because then that's just a typical day in the Underdark.
More importantly, how does fabric tear "with an echoing sound?"
*edited for in-character accurateness*
"Okay," said Jaheira, matter-of-factly, taking her blouse back from Abdel, "That's taken care of. Let's go."
Abdel stood silent, staring at her breasts.
"...Eyes up here, Abdel. Now, let's get a move on."
And then at that moment, Xan came crashing out from the bushes, convinced by this point the two were surely under attack and about to meet their untimely ends, just before Jaheira got her top back on. He was literally the only one there who got flustered and embarrassed, but instead of apologizing for walking in on such a moment, played it off with snark and a list of all the ways they could and probably would die out here. Then he tripped on a rock, took 2 damage from the ground, and died. Because, I mean, he's Xan. Honestly, we have no idea how he even managed to survive this long. Abdel and Jaheira continued on towards the Cloakwood Mines in awkward silence. Abdel tried to check Jaheira out at least once on the way but she put a stop to that right quick. The end.
but like even with just like sexual stuff? It is in most fantasy novels. Heck its in a lot of Forgotten Realms fantasy novels, ESPECIALLY if it's one by Ed Greenwood. And believe me, as a lady who's been into D&D and a lot of related fandoms near her whole life, I have met a LOT of guys who get their jollies while reading these kinds of books. Sure, they're also in it for the story, but that doesn't mean they're not also out to get their jollies because they know they got sexy stuff to look forward to at least once in that new fantasy book they picked up.
My protagonist is a young woman and I've been making a point of keeping things appropriate to her perspective in that sense.
"Weak" writing?
You are being too kind.
"A tear burst from her eye"
Is english the author's first language?
Or does Jaheira have a very severe, possibly terminal, case of conjunctivitis?
/sarcasm?
Also: Rewritten to be out of character, but 100% accurate:
Jaheira: ...
Abdel: Everything okay?
Jaheira: Yes, it's fine, a spider just fell in the cleavage of my ankheg plate which is present on all female armour for some reason.
Abdel: You uh, you want to take off your shirt and get it out?
Jaheira: Why? I'm a druid, spiders are part of nature too, and rarely bite unless agitated. See? It's climbing out now.
Abdel: OMFG IT'S THE SIZE OF MY HEEAAAAAD. T_T
Jaheira: Yes, yes, now let's get a move on. Goodbye little spider friend.
Xan: We're all doomed.
Spider: *Bites Xan for 1 HP.*
Xan: Told you so. *Dies.*
Abdel: Great, now who's going to carry this party?
Anyway...
Min 1HP items should never be used. Ever. Not least because RAISE DEAD EXISTS. If it's really, really important that arbitrary villain #7 be alive, just have them be raised for the next scene, or have their body be taken from you and raised in a hellish dungeon. It's lazy, sloppy writing and there's no excuse for it.