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Faiths and Powers: Gods of the Realms (Kitpack and divine caster/spell tweaks)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    Great job with this mod, guys.
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183
    edited June 2017

    BTW if anyone is impatient about some multiclass stuff then you can just use the BG EE keeper to not just similate but give you exactly what you want.

    Unfortunately this is not quite true. Adding a normal kit to a multiclass character with EEKeeper will give you some/most of the kit's abilities, but not all of them. For instance, you will not have the kit's custom HLA table. Instead you will have the vanilla game's boring HLAs, and none of our new awesome ones. :wink:

    The best way to play with a kit is to use a kit that is designed for your class - even multiclasses. The best way to have more kits available for multiclasses, then, is to make more multiclass kits! (Of course, if a kit that you want to use is not available, then the EEKeeper method may be better than nothing. YMMV of course.)
    Thanks for this. I was not aware of the custom/kit oriented HLA. I think I will stick with what is given. I want to report a bug though with the Minion of Moander kit. You do not seem to get the entangle spell in innate abilities. As I said before, great mod.

    Are there any other plans for deities/acolytes? I think acolyte is now my favourite kit ever. I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? I realise that is a lot of work but I was wondering if at least pantheon heads are planned for the future. Thanks!
    Post edited by LupusSolus on
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    edited June 2017

    I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? Thanks!

    I believe Eldritch Magic adds the Priestess of Lolth as a kit, and it is fully compatible with FnP, with the sphere system and all that. Install Eldritch Magic first though.

    EDIT: to be accurate I know I have a mod that does that and I think it's eldritch magic. I'll check in a few hours if need be.

  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183
    I have a question. There seems to be a fair bit of variety in the total number of sphere access per cleric/acolyte. It seems like Baraevan actually has access to the least number of spheres compared to, say for example the acolyte of Sune. Perhaps give the Fastpaw a bit more access of make one or two minor spheres major ones, such as Vigor and Water. I think those last two fit in thematically quiet well with a god of the forest. Anyway, thanks in advance for fielding my question.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    BTW if anyone is impatient about some multiclass stuff then you can just use the BG EE keeper to not just similate but give you exactly what you want.

    Unfortunately this is not quite true. Adding a normal kit to a multiclass character with EEKeeper will give you some/most of the kit's abilities, but not all of them. For instance, you will not have the kit's custom HLA table. Instead you will have the vanilla game's boring HLAs, and none of our new awesome ones. :wink:

    The best way to play with a kit is to use a kit that is designed for your class - even multiclasses. The best way to have more kits available for multiclasses, then, is to make more multiclass kits! (Of course, if a kit that you want to use is not available, then the EEKeeper method may be better than nothing. YMMV of course.)
    Thanks for this. I was not aware of the custom/kit oriented HLA. I think I will stick with what is given. I want to report a bug though with the Minion of Moander kit. You do not seem to get the entangle spell in innate abilities. As I said before, great mod.

    Are there any other plans for deities/acolytes? I think acolyte is now my favourite kit ever. I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? I realise that is a lot of work but I was wondering if at least pantheon heads are planned for the future. Thanks!
    I'm kind of insane in that i want to include every deity (and have different versions-- acolytes, clerics, etc.-- of each), but I realize that isn't realistic. That means that requests like this are exactly what I'm looking for; they give me specific deities to prioritize. I need to add more of the racial deities and these fit the bill ( especially Garl). So, yeah, as of now, i do plan to add acolytes of each.
    Arunsun said:

    I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? Thanks!

    I believe Eldritch Magic adds the Priestess of Lolth as a kit, and it is fully compatible with FnP, with the sphere system and all that. Install Eldritch Magic first though.

    EDIT: to be accurate I know I have a mod that does that and I think it's eldritch magic. I'll check in a few hours if need be.

    Yes, this is the case, as far as i remember...
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49591/mod-eldritch-magic-bgee-bg2ee-iwdee/p1

    I Should link This mod in the op if i Don't already. (When I'm on my laptop)

    I have a question. There seems to be a fair bit of variety in the total number of sphere access per cleric/acolyte. It seems like Baraevan actually has access to the least number of spheres compared to, say for example the acolyte of Sune. Perhaps give the Fastpaw a bit more access of make one or two minor spheres major ones, such as Vigor and Water. I think those last two fit in thematically quiet well with a god of the forest. Anyway, thanks in advance for fielding my question.

    We have something of a formula in that acolytes have access to more spheres than clerics (to compensate for reduced combat proficiency). However, we may have shortchanged some of them. We'll take a look at Fastpaw
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183

    BTW if anyone is impatient about some multiclass stuff then you can just use the BG EE keeper to not just similate but give you exactly what you want.

    Unfortunately this is not quite true. Adding a normal kit to a multiclass character with EEKeeper will give you some/most of the kit's abilities, but not all of them. For instance, you will not have the kit's custom HLA table. Instead you will have the vanilla game's boring HLAs, and none of our new awesome ones. :wink:

    The best way to play with a kit is to use a kit that is designed for your class - even multiclasses. The best way to have more kits available for multiclasses, then, is to make more multiclass kits! (Of course, if a kit that you want to use is not available, then the EEKeeper method may be better than nothing. YMMV of course.)
    Thanks for this. I was not aware of the custom/kit oriented HLA. I think I will stick with what is given. I want to report a bug though with the Minion of Moander kit. You do not seem to get the entangle spell in innate abilities. As I said before, great mod.

    Are there any other plans for deities/acolytes? I think acolyte is now my favourite kit ever. I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? I realise that is a lot of work but I was wondering if at least pantheon heads are planned for the future. Thanks!
    I'm kind of insane in that i want to include every deity (and have different versions-- acolytes, clerics, etc.-- of each), but I realize that isn't realistic. That means that requests like this are exactly what I'm looking for; they give me specific deities to prioritize. I need to add more of the racial deities and these fit the bill ( especially Garl). So, yeah, as of now, i do plan to add acolytes of each.
    Arunsun said:

    I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? Thanks!

    I believe Eldritch Magic adds the Priestess of Lolth as a kit, and it is fully compatible with FnP, with the sphere system and all that. Install Eldritch Magic first though.

    EDIT: to be accurate I know I have a mod that does that and I think it's eldritch magic. I'll check in a few hours if need be.

    Yes, this is the case, as far as i remember...
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49591/mod-eldritch-magic-bgee-bg2ee-iwdee/p1

    I Should link This mod in the op if i Don't already. (When I'm on my laptop)

    I have a question. There seems to be a fair bit of variety in the total number of sphere access per cleric/acolyte. It seems like Baraevan actually has access to the least number of spheres compared to, say for example the acolyte of Sune. Perhaps give the Fastpaw a bit more access of make one or two minor spheres major ones, such as Vigor and Water. I think those last two fit in thematically quiet well with a god of the forest. Anyway, thanks in advance for fielding my question.

    We have something of a formula in that acolytes have access to more spheres than clerics (to compensate for reduced combat proficiency). However, we may have shortchanged some of them. We'll take a look at Fastpaw
    Thanks. I am very much a Gnome. I used to PnP Baraevan and Garl priests and I am not sure if this is a bug but one of the few Cleric/Thief multi class combos that sort of works, the Thief/Acolyte of Sune does not seem to be getting an extra spell per level. That was on an elf though I am not sure that is relevant. Thanks again.
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    I believe that none of my multi-class divine casters have gotten the extra spells.
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183

    BTW if anyone is impatient about some multiclass stuff then you can just use the BG EE keeper to not just similate but give you exactly what you want.

    Unfortunately this is not quite true. Adding a normal kit to a multiclass character with EEKeeper will give you some/most of the kit's abilities, but not all of them. For instance, you will not have the kit's custom HLA table. Instead you will have the vanilla game's boring HLAs, and none of our new awesome ones. :wink:

    The best way to play with a kit is to use a kit that is designed for your class - even multiclasses. The best way to have more kits available for multiclasses, then, is to make more multiclass kits! (Of course, if a kit that you want to use is not available, then the EEKeeper method may be better than nothing. YMMV of course.)
    Thanks for this. I was not aware of the custom/kit oriented HLA. I think I will stick with what is given. I want to report a bug though with the Minion of Moander kit. You do not seem to get the entangle spell in innate abilities. As I said before, great mod.

    Are there any other plans for deities/acolytes? I think acolyte is now my favourite kit ever. I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? I realise that is a lot of work but I was wondering if at least pantheon heads are planned for the future. Thanks!
    I'm kind of insane in that i want to include every deity (and have different versions-- acolytes, clerics, etc.-- of each), but I realize that isn't realistic. That means that requests like this are exactly what I'm looking for; they give me specific deities to prioritize. I need to add more of the racial deities and these fit the bill ( especially Garl). So, yeah, as of now, i do plan to add acolytes of each.
    Arunsun said:

    I would love to see an acolyte of Garl Glittergold and Corellon Larethian and perhaps even Lolth? Thanks!

    I believe Eldritch Magic adds the Priestess of Lolth as a kit, and it is fully compatible with FnP, with the sphere system and all that. Install Eldritch Magic first though.

    EDIT: to be accurate I know I have a mod that does that and I think it's eldritch magic. I'll check in a few hours if need be.

    Yes, this is the case, as far as i remember...
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49591/mod-eldritch-magic-bgee-bg2ee-iwdee/p1

    I Should link This mod in the op if i Don't already. (When I'm on my laptop)

    I have a question. There seems to be a fair bit of variety in the total number of sphere access per cleric/acolyte. It seems like Baraevan actually has access to the least number of spheres compared to, say for example the acolyte of Sune. Perhaps give the Fastpaw a bit more access of make one or two minor spheres major ones, such as Vigor and Water. I think those last two fit in thematically quiet well with a god of the forest. Anyway, thanks in advance for fielding my question.

    We have something of a formula in that acolytes have access to more spheres than clerics (to compensate for reduced combat proficiency). However, we may have shortchanged some of them. We'll take a look at Fastpaw
    One more thing regarding Baraevan, who definitely has less major sphere access than any other acolyte. His special spirit bear ability. I think (since it is his only one) that allowing it to improve every 5 levels (up to 30) would be a nice addition as well as the spirit bear's improvement stops at 10.
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183

    I believe that none of my multi-class divine casters have gotten the extra spells.

    Yes. I can confirm this. I tried multiple kits and they do not get the bonus acolyte spell per level.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    Just some feedback from little I managed to play. I had this crazy idea about a megamod install but gave up on it when some talos knights started casting Energy Drain just south of Ulgoth's Beard. :D
    - I've had Refinements installed, but paladin-type kits got "old" HLA tables with Greater Whirlwinds etc. but w/o Devas. I don't know if this is intended.
    - all paladins (zealots?) kinda look alike with Frenzy, I'd definitely "diverse" them somehow (with the exception of the kit that substitutes inquisitor, that one I like). Personally, I'd prefer more diversity rather than sheer strenght in numbers.
    - druids are very, very cool. Something probably went fairly wrong in my megamod since they've all got a gazillion spells including the ones they shouldn't but I'm making a clean-slate install so I'll get back on that later. Speaking of druids, they only got 1 spell to pick from the start (as memorized). They also suffer a bit from not enough diversity, but not as much as zealots. That shadow druid guy is probably my favorite kit from the mod.
    - HLAs for clerics/druids are indeed lovely. I didn't browse the code, but how did you make that permanent FA spell? If it's not already included, probably the best way to do it is to copy the already in-game FA spell and make it's effects permenent -a lot of mods modify this spell - with or w/o Stun protection etc . Ditto for all innates if they're supposed to mimick effects of another spell (like Rage).
    - Rangers failed to install for some reason, but that's probably just a megamod thingie

    Anyways, I'll go for a test-game in a few days when I finally get holidays so I'll have some more feedback and/or suggestions. Overall, this looks very promising.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Aasim said:


    - all paladins (zealots?) kinda look alike with Frenzy, I'd definitely "diverse" them somehow (with the exception of the kit that substitutes inquisitor, that one I like). Personally, I'd prefer more diversity rather than sheer strenght in numbers.

    They are intended to be pretty much the same, with tiny differences related to their fury. But they are as alike as, say, the various acolyte kits are. The only reason you see more difference between acolytes is because acolytes have more depth to their gameplay to begin with. But these paladin kits have differences, the same kind of differences you'd have between a vanilla Cavalier and a vanilla Undead Hunter. A paladin remains a straightforward fighting class, so there's only so much depth you can give it without completely changing the class identity.

    A suggestion I could make however, @subtledoctor @Grammarsalad, would be to give Paladins and Zealots the possibility to reach Mastery (High mastery? might be too much) in their deity's favoured weapon(s) (adding an S because some have more than one, Corellon Larethian with longbows and longswords coming to mind), and give Clerics (but not acolytes - these are meant to be scholars) the possibility to specialize in their deity's weapon. This type of small change doesn't do much to balance, shouldn't be too hard to do, but adds some flavour to the numerous kits you offer and makes them feel a bit different one from another.

  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    "- I've had Refinements installed, but paladin-type kits got "old" HLA tables with Greater Whirlwinds etc. but w/o Devas. I don't know if this is intended"
    Champions?
    Definitely not intended, though i haven't added any custom hlas for them yet. If the champ is not getting any refinements hlas, that might be a refinements issue. they should get the default paladin hlas. It may be another issue. Hard to tell.

    "- all paladins (zealots?) kinda look alike with Frenzy, I'd definitely "diverse" them somehow (with the exception of the kit that substitutes inquisitor, that one I like). Personally, I'd prefer more diversity rather than sheer strenght in numbers."

    There is quite a diversity with zealot frenzy. The cherub of sune has a chance to charm nearby enemies. The eye of Gruumsh can detect illusion and at higher level is under the effect of true sight while in frenzy. There is less diversity among Champions, though.

    "- druids are very, very cool. Something probably went fairly wrong in my megamod since they've all got a gazillion spells including the ones they shouldn't but I'm making a clean-slate install so I'll get back on that later. Speaking of druids, they only got 1 spell to pick from the start (as memorized). They also suffer a bit from not enough diversity, but not as much as zealots. That shadow druid guy is probably my favorite kit from the mod"

    Subtle can say more about druids/mystics, but they are going to have unconventional spells available because of the sphere system. The one spell thing is just how we work around engine limitations in character creation. You will be able to memorize spells normally after creation.


    "- Rangers failed to install for some reason, but that's probably just a megamod thingie"

    Maybe. Be sure that you are using th most up to date version (0.64a)
    Arunsun said:

    Aasim said:


    - all paladins (zealots?) kinda look alike with Frenzy, I'd definitely "diverse" them somehow (with the exception of the kit that substitutes inquisitor, that one I like). Personally, I'd prefer more diversity rather than sheer strenght in numbers.

    They are intended to be pretty much the same, with tiny differences related to their fury. But they are as alike as, say, the various acolyte kits are. The only reason you see more difference between acolytes is because acolytes have more depth to their gameplay to begin with. But these paladin kits have differences, the same kind of differences you'd have between a vanilla Cavalier and a vanilla Undead Hunter. A paladin remains a straightforward fighting class, so there's only so much depth you can give it without completely changing the class identity.

    A suggestion I could make however, @subtledoctor @Grammarsalad, would be to give Paladins and Zealots the possibility to reach Mastery (High mastery? might be too much) in their deity's favoured weapon(s) (adding an S because some have more than one, Corellon Larethian with longbows and longswords coming to mind), and give Clerics (but not acolytes - these are meant to be scholars) the possibility to specialize in their deity's weapon. This type of small change doesn't do much to balance, shouldn't be too hard to do, but adds some flavour to the numerous kits you offer and makes them feel a bit different one from another.

    This was part of the original plan. I'm not against it
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183

    Baraevan actually has access to the least number of spheres compared to, say for example the acolyte of Sune.

    My personal feeling is that we should hee pretty closely to some standard number of spheres: like, major access to ~6, and minor access to ~5. It's tough, be ausexwith a diverse set of spheres like this, there is always one or two spells in another sphere that you think a kit should have access to, and then maybe you increase overall sphere access... etc. But I think we should try to avoid giving in to that temptation, because the whole point of the sphere system is that different clerics get different tools they can use to overcome obstacles. A priest of Sune really should not be firebombing enemies; she should be charming them.

    I get that but an Acolyte of Sune has Major access to 7 spheres+her Focus Sphere and compared to Baervan's which has Major access to 5 spheres+his focus. I guess that they are all supposed to be different but maybe, like I said, giving Baervan's one more major sphere taken from his minor ones, such as Light, Vigor or Water?
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    edited June 2017
    I have to go to work in a couple of minutes, but i want to answer this really quick:
    @subtledoctor said
    "So @Grammarsalad, I'll make a radical proposal: eliminate this idea of race-limited worship, and open up any deity to be worshipped by anyone with the right alignment. "The content of your heart is more important than the pointiness of your ears..." or something like that.

    Bonus: we can then re-use the current "race" portion of the fnp_compat function for something else... something like item usability! Applying opcode 181 effects to kits based on an entry in the fnp_compat function could solve two problems: 1) give us much more fine-grained control over usability, instead of being limited to the three cleric kit flags; and 2) 3rd-party kitpacks could be coded for vanilla, with only blunt weapon use, but could then use our function to set more diverse weapon use when FnP is installed. "

    I'm not against that, but it may not be necessary. I've been thinking about this lately and we can just use the 'shaman method' ( coupled with another array). Grrr, i have a definite idea but have to go...

    Edit: I'm thinking opcode 319(?) I think. I have to do more research before I say more...
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    edited June 2017

    "- I've had Refinements installed, but paladin-type kits got "old" HLA tables with Greater Whirlwinds etc. but w/o Devas. I don't know if this is intended"
    Champions?
    -----Definitely not intended, though i haven't added any custom hlas for them yet. If the champ is not getting any refinements hlas, that might be a refinements issue. they should get the default paladin hlas. It may be another issue. Hard to tell.----------
    Well, in that install, I'd be surprised if *anything* worked properly. I'll check back on it.


    --------------There is quite a diversity with zealot frenzy. The cherub of sune has a chance to charm nearby enemies. The eye of Gruumsh can detect illusion and at higher level is under the effect of true sight while in frenzy. There is less diversity among Champions, though. ----------------
    There's diversity in frenzy, but not in zealots. Then again, making vanilla kits diverse and interesting is a feat by itself, let alone what you guys are doing here. May be just me, but I like that feeling when I play a kit that's "unique".
    Say, KR's Cavalier who has the ability to force enemies to attack him. Ditto your Inqusitor variant - he dispels via hit. No other kit has this thing going. This is what makes a kit special and (imo, at least) makes people play it. Zealots seem to be a variant on a same theme - you get Frenzy that has more or less useful effects, but it's really not that diverse. Frankly, I'd take a figher with weapon GM any day over them.
    What they can do, others can usually do better - but you cannot say that for the two examples I pointed above.

    -------------Subtle can say more about druids/mystics, but they are going to have unconventional spells available because of the sphere system. The one spell thing is just how we work around engine limitations in character creation. You will be able to memorize spells normally after creation.--------------
    Unconvencional is fine - this was completely f***ed up.
    I did love that shadow mystic got SR's Blur/Reflected image version, that was *great*. It's the first Druid kit I actually wanted to play the game with - that speaks for itself. :)
    As I said, I'm making a fresh install with much less mods so I'll see how this works now.


  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    edited June 2017
    Aasim said:


    Unconvencional is fine - this was completely f***ed up.

    I found a screenshot. Level 2 spells:



  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    edited June 2017
    delete_me
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited June 2017
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  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183

    My personal feeling is that we should hee pretty closely to some standard number of spheres: like, major access to ~6, and minor access to ~5. It's tough, be ausexwith a diverse set of spheres like this, there is always one or two spells in another sphere that you think a kit should have access to, and then maybe you increase overall sphere access... etc. But I think we should try to avoid giving in to that temptation, because the whole point of the sphere system is that different clerics get different tools they can use to overcome obstacles. A priest of Sune really should not be firebombing enemies; she should be charming them.

    I get that but an Acolyte of Sune has Major access to 7 spheres+her Focus Sphere and compared to Baervan's which has Major access to 5 spheres+his focus. I guess that they are all supposed to be different but maybe, like I said, giving Baervan's one more major sphere taken from his minor ones, such as Light, Vigor or Water?
    Right, I'm saying Acolytes of Sune should have fewer spheres, and Baervan should have more.
    Ah, yes. I already started a Baevran playthrough...guess I won't be able to experience the change yet.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    @Aasim Did I hear Shadow Druid mentioned? Hmm, sounds nice.

    As an aside, I played around with EEKeeper and changed a characters appearance to wererat, that was in there to my surprise. The dude looks pretty darn cool walking and with the constant tail animation, swaying side to side all the time. Even straightens up and walks taller when moving, then hunches back down again when he stops. Some fine animation was done on that for having such a tiny part of SoD.
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    Zaghoul said:

    @Aasim Did I hear Shadow Druid mentioned? Hmm, sounds nice.

    I can't remember the exact kit name; it was a druid that had access to illusions and got a number of mage spells + ability to put 3 pips in dual-wielding. He did loose a big number of spells like Insects, but I liked him.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,246
    Nice!
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183
    edited June 2017
    I had to reinstall the whole game and now even though it says the mod has been installed I only get invalid signs in character creation. Any idea what might have gone wrong or what I could do? Many thanks.

    Edit. I now have tried everything, even installing it as the only mod in the game and all the cleric and druid descriptions give me an invalid. I honestly have no idea what to do right now.
    Post edited by LupusSolus on
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183
    I managed to fix it after a lot of trouble, guess installation order. Sorry for bothering you.
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582

    I managed to fix it after a lot of trouble, guess installation order. Sorry for bothering you.

    Not a problem. Just seeing this now, but i was thinking this might be a modmerge issue. In any case, glad it worked
  • LupusSolusLupusSolus Member Posts: 183
    Reporting a bug. In addition to the Nature's Wrath problem, summoned shambling mounds hit for about 2 damage and it is nonlethal damage. Sometimes they will also not attack. I think I will just wait until Minion of Moander is patched up a bit.
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