I meant that he can't access shield fighting(during lvl up) even though he's a warrior with a shield, which seems weird to me. Shouldn't warriors have all fighting styles available? My fighter/thief got 1 in all fighting styles at lvl 1 and there's no reason he'd get shield fighting if a single class warrior doesn't.
Yeah, I agree with you, but it should probably be noted in the kit description if other warriors have access and not berserkers, Korgan don't need no shield anyway.
If you can be bothered with it, it could also be a nice touch to replace his shield with a secondary weapon though it's admittedly not very important.
A Soulknife / Psychic Warrior kit would be great. It was one of my favorite class even when the it was a little underpowered in 3.5. Is it possible to make a Psiblade like the 3.5 version of the Class (for example, split in two Daggers or make a Bastard sword instead, give it the option to throw)?
The disadvantages make sense to me: Training psychic ability's take time and would result in less time for weapon & armor training.
Are all the powers different feats or would they be select-able as packs. Here is my idea, make them like disciplines, but only 3 and mix and match:
Mind Path: (Telepathy & Clairsentience ) Danger Sense, Intellect Fortress, maybe add some additional powers here (maybe Detect/Sense Invisibility / Detect Illusion, Id Insinuation)
But I'm not sure about the progression and how it compares to the normal fighter and the fighter feats. Maybe 2 powers per feat and the they are selected in to steps devotion and science?
Ultimately I would like it to be maintained as long as you want - pay the cost in hp and if the target fails their save, they are your thrall. And you would get an innate ability which would cancel the effect, after which the hp regenerate. But if the target makes their save, you would regenerate the hp immediately and would not get the cancellation ability.
Easier to provide an example than explain it this time:
Extract to override.
C:AddSpell("CASTME")
Cast it on your victim. (Innate button, White Hold Person Icon)
Victim saves and your hp loss ends after 1 round.
Victim fails - a repeating eff keeps them held and your hp at a loss.
Removal spell provided after first round if they failed (Innate button, Free Action Icon)
Cast it (Innate button, Free Action Icon)
At next check, they are freed and you regain your hp.
Adjust to preference or discard.
Notes:
This version can be cast on multiple targets, the caster will suffer HP loss for each target maintained. The effect will only end on the casters targets that are within range when their check occurs.
Two casters can use the ability on two different targets, and one can end theirs without affecting the other.
The effects will remain while travelling through different local maps (like the houses in a city)
You must be on the same local map and within range to remove the effect from the target(and yourself).
The Range of Spell "ENDSUB" controls the range at which it will work - it will tell you it failed if you are out of range when it checks.
The effects will not remain when travelling to different region maps, it will expire after 1 round.
@subtledoctor this project in its entirety (meaning all of SoB, M&G, F&P and T&B) are totally blowing my mind. I'm not even going to play either of the BG games anymore until your work here is done. Which is probably going to take a loooong time. But that's okay! I have a bazillion other games I can play in the mean time, and the list keeps growing every time GOG has a sale on, or I get a mail from Humble Bundle. And the best part about this is that I have zero time to play any games anyway, and probably won't until my 2 year old grows up and moves out.
So, I'm totally speaking for myself when I say this:
take your time.
PS. If you ever get into developing your own CRPGs, I will absolutely throw money at you.
@subtledoctor I had anticipated the target dying while being held, the effect will end within the next round. I had not anticipated the caster dying while holding someone, but this should be an easy fix, another *.eff and *.spl at most. Will post more later.
Edit: Redesigned a lot of it, got rid of the repeating eff (they still do not function perfectly). It still checks on a 6s cycle, using delayed casting 146. It now requires staying within range of the target to maintain the effect (range of "HOLDYOU.spl' controls this range), currently set at 255. If out of range when the check occurs, the effect will end on both. If the target or caster dies, the effects will expire at the next check. "ENDHOLD.spl" is the one given to the player to manually end the effect. "ENDHOLD2.spl" removes the effect when recasting "CASTME.spl", immunity to it will allow holding multiple targets. Similarly, other spells could cast ENDHOLD2 to prevent using both simultaneously, with immunity to it to allow simultaneous use.
Now the bad news - Saving & Loading the game does not keep the source caster intact(it reverts to the target), as such the spells must be flagged hostile to prevent saving (or use new opcode 338 - Disable Save, for its duration). Currently they are just flagged hostile. Saving the game after the first check, the effect will harmlessly expire on both target and caster. Saving the game before the first check will cause both effects to last until death on the target (hold and hp loss). I could change this to expire harmlessly, but at the cost of always allowing multiple targets.
Just wanted to say as a returning player wanting new mods for BG:EE, this is amazing! Thank you so much Subtledoctor, and keep up the hard work! I will come back to you if I have any problems.
So, might I suggest you use the 3E barb, a more coherent concept, as a basis for this?
Edit: Also, 3E bards are NOT rogues. They are skill monkeys, not rogues. Furthermore, intelligence is merely a prerequisite to learned arcane spellcasting - YEARS of training are required to even develop the understanding to cast a simple spell. This is why 3.5E bards can use magic devices (including scrolls) via the skill "Use Magic Device". Bards still have learned arcane ability, in ALL editions. I say, if you remove the "jack-of-all-trades" aspect from bards, you no longer have a bard - merely a variant of a rogue.
3rd Edition and later bards don't have learned arcane ability. They're spontaneous casters, like sorcerers, with charisma as their spellcasting ability.
3rd Edition and later bards don't have learned arcane ability. They're spontaneous casters, like sorcerers, with charisma as their spellcasting ability.
But 2E bards are not. So...either leave bards be. Or make them charisma-based - which frankly makes more sense to me.
Feel free to suggest how to do that, within the constraints of this engine... anyway as noted, later edition bards are actually spontaneous casters - just like this concept.
This concept actually removes casting from bards and then tries to say, "Well, use a scroll." Not the same. Charisma-based casting actually IS still spellcasting.
Vanilla BG2 bards are hardly jacks-of-all-trades. They are just poor arcane casters with poor thac0 and APR. The entire point of this component is to create a *real* jack-of-all-trades class. And then invite bards to be a part of it.
Then, revise bards to be an actual jack-of-all-trades. Don't try to shoehorn them into the rogue archetype.
First: you Question - I also favor 1B. If you want you Bard to be more of a thief, you need to make sacrifices.
Second: About the new Bard concept - I think the Bard Class needs your changes. The people that think that bards need to stay the same can skip this component anyway right?
For me, it makes way more sense that they some kind of artist with special powers to charm people and confuse them. That is not exactly how D&D design them, but the mod is not about getting closer to the 2nd edition core rules. And a real Bard that only plays music etc. would be no fighter / adventurer at all, or did I miss something in history class . So for me it makes more sense that they are indeed adventurer with some unique skills that let them survive in dangerous situations.
For me the original BG Bard was always a odd position in the group. Standing around, so he can give an aura like bonus and casting a spell or two.
I really like the idea of having a more active class depending on the kit or feats.
For example: Crowd Control = Jester Support Fighter = Blade etc....
Gallant as a Fighter great, works for me, and Skalds are described as Warriors so true to there name (instead of just standing the and giving a super aura).
And also this takes care of casting in armor, no problems wearing that nice chain mail +2
What about Multi/Dual class? When Bards are Thief kits and we have Multiclass kits, than we can make a Bard/Mage for those that want to have a full caster Bard right? You would have a Bard that actually learned arcane magic. (Maybe the Loresinger is a Bard/Mage kit?) And I think that open ob some interesting new Bard(Thief)/Mage or Bard/fighter combos.
Maybe I misunderstood. To me, it almost sounded like bards wouldn't be having any spells at all. Now, if you're adding specific spells for each kit (as a kit ability), that makes sense. It just seemed odd that bards would only ever use scrolls/wands for magic. But, since you're talking about each kit having magic, that is more in line with what bards are. For instance, it definitely fits a blade to have shadow magic. Just keep in mind that bards aren't thieves.
Comments
If you can be bothered with it, it could also be a nice touch to replace his shield with a secondary weapon though it's admittedly not very important.
Is it possible to make a Psiblade like the 3.5 version of the Class
(for example, split in two Daggers or make a Bastard sword instead, give it the option to throw)?
The disadvantages make sense to me:
Training psychic ability's take time and would result in less time for weapon & armor training.
Are all the powers different feats or would they be select-able as packs.
Here is my idea, make them like disciplines, but only 3 and mix and match:
Biokinesis Path:
Static Transfer, Metabolic Boost, Bioregeneration, Camouflage
Kinetic Path: (Pyrokinesis & Telekinesis)
Kinetic Ram, Inertial Barrier, Psychic Knife, Energy Shield
Mind Path: (Telepathy & Clairsentience )
Danger Sense, Intellect Fortress, maybe add some additional powers here
(maybe Detect/Sense Invisibility / Detect Illusion, Id Insinuation)
But I'm not sure about the progression and how it compares to the normal fighter and the fighter feats.
Maybe 2 powers per feat and the they are selected in to steps devotion and science?
Biokinesis devotions: Metabolic Boost, Camouflage
Biokinesis science: Carapace, Bioregeneration
Telekinesis devotions: Kinetic Ram, Inertial Barrier
Telekinesis science: Psychic Knife, Energy Barrier
Mind devotions: Danger Sense, Id Insinuation
Mind science: Sense Illusions, Intellect Fortress
- Extract to override.
- C:AddSpell("CASTME")
- Cast it on your victim. (Innate button, White Hold Person Icon)
- Victim saves and your hp loss ends after 1 round.
- Victim fails - a repeating eff keeps them held and your hp at a loss.
- Removal spell provided after first round if they failed (Innate button, Free Action Icon)
- Cast it (Innate button, Free Action Icon)
- At next check, they are freed and you regain your hp.
- Adjust to preference or discard.
Notes:Here's the debug file : https://www.dropbox.com/s/pod76586kul5nmg/SETUP-MIGHT_AND_GUILE.DEBUG?dl=0 .
The error is line 1087.
Since I went ahead without the component, I won't be able to do extensive tests but i'll definitely make sure it works for my next test run of EET.
I'm not even going to play either of the BG games anymore until your work here is done. Which is probably going to take a loooong time. But that's okay! I have a bazillion other games I can play in the mean time, and the list keeps growing every time GOG has a sale on, or I get a mail from Humble Bundle.
And the best part about this is that I have zero time to play any games anyway, and probably won't until my 2 year old grows up and moves out.
So, I'm totally speaking for myself when I say this:
take your time.
PS. If you ever get into developing your own CRPGs, I will absolutely throw money at you.
Edit: Also @Grammarsalad, @Aquadrizzt and everyone else who's on team with you.
I had anticipated the target dying while being held, the effect will end within the next round.
I had not anticipated the caster dying while holding someone, but this should be an easy fix, another *.eff and *.spl at most. Will post more later.
Edit:
Redesigned a lot of it, got rid of the repeating eff (they still do not function perfectly). It still checks on a 6s cycle, using delayed casting 146.
It now requires staying within range of the target to maintain the effect (range of "HOLDYOU.spl' controls this range), currently set at 255.
If out of range when the check occurs, the effect will end on both.
If the target or caster dies, the effects will expire at the next check.
"ENDHOLD.spl" is the one given to the player to manually end the effect.
"ENDHOLD2.spl" removes the effect when recasting "CASTME.spl", immunity to it will allow holding multiple targets. Similarly, other spells could cast ENDHOLD2 to prevent using both simultaneously, with immunity to it to allow simultaneous use.
Now the bad news - Saving & Loading the game does not keep the source caster intact(it reverts to the target), as such the spells must be flagged hostile to prevent saving (or use new opcode 338 - Disable Save, for its duration). Currently they are just flagged hostile.
Saving the game after the first check, the effect will harmlessly expire on both target and caster.
Saving the game before the first check will cause both effects to last until death on the target (hold and hp loss). I could change this to expire harmlessly, but at the cost of always allowing multiple targets.
Edit:
Also, 3E bards are NOT rogues. They are skill monkeys, not rogues. Furthermore, intelligence is merely a prerequisite to learned arcane spellcasting - YEARS of training are required to even develop the understanding to cast a simple spell. This is why 3.5E bards can use magic devices (including scrolls) via the skill "Use Magic Device". Bards still have learned arcane ability, in ALL editions. I say, if you remove the "jack-of-all-trades" aspect from bards, you no longer have a bard - merely a variant of a rogue.
Second: About the new Bard concept -
I think the Bard Class needs your changes.
The people that think that bards need to stay the same can skip this component anyway right?
For me, it makes way more sense that they some kind of artist with special powers to charm people and confuse them. That is not exactly how D&D design them, but the mod is not about getting closer to the 2nd edition core rules.
And a real Bard that only plays music etc. would be no fighter / adventurer at all, or did I miss something in history class
So for me it makes more sense that they are indeed adventurer with some unique skills that let them survive in dangerous situations.
For me the original BG Bard was always a odd position in the group.
Standing around, so he can give an aura like bonus and casting a spell or two.
I really like the idea of having a more active class depending on the kit or feats.
For example:
Crowd Control = Jester
Support Fighter = Blade
etc....
Gallant as a Fighter great, works for me, and Skalds are described as Warriors so true to there name (instead of just standing the and giving a super aura).
And also this takes care of casting in armor, no problems wearing that nice chain mail +2
What about Multi/Dual class? When Bards are Thief kits and we have Multiclass kits, than we can make a Bard/Mage for those that want to have a full caster Bard right? You would have a Bard that actually learned arcane magic. (Maybe the Loresinger is a Bard/Mage kit?)
And I think that open ob some interesting new Bard(Thief)/Mage or Bard/fighter combos.
But, since you're talking about each kit having magic, that is more in line with what bards are. For instance, it definitely fits a blade to have shadow magic. Just keep in mind that bards aren't thieves.