any multiclass character isnt getting any feats, while pure classes do. Is this intended?
Intended. If you are multiclass your other class abilities are your 'feats.' Standard recommended BG2 party makeup is something like "2 or more fighters, 1.5 or more arcane casters, 1 or more healers, and 0.5 thieves." So most people use s multiclass thief instead of pure thief. The Rogue Feats are designed to make single-classed thieves as useful and interesting as multiclass thieves.
Ah that makes sense, Is there a way to add them with console commands? I've been wanting to do a solo run with my fighter rogue making him a bit stronger than the average character to compensate for the lack of allies.
I ... installed Might and Guile without Scales of Balance Proficiency System Overhaul but with "Everyone Gets Bonus APR from Specialization" from Tweaks Anthology, I think it was causing it. Right now I've reinstalled everything with Scales of Balance System and it seems working.
Another thing I've noticed Soulblade can't access Telekinesis and Biokinesis skills (as it stated in description) and instead gets rogue skills and can select backstab increase and Coarser can't access Swashbuckler's escape ability.
Also (it is more YARAS) Dragonskale armor is treated not as leather and Raconteurs Regalia is bard armor that don't prevent spell casting as such should not get +2 penalty.
Why is M&G skipping the Warrior feats & multiclass kits for IWD:EE? It also skips psionics & rogue feats.
Found it: apparently, those are EE 2.0 features and IWD EE doesn't get a 2.0 patch. (At least none that I found, if I'm missing anything, it would be great if someone pointed it out to me.)
So, if anyone has ideas, now is the time to throw them out! What are skills that clerics and druids and mages and sorcerers could have as feats?
Are meta-magic feats technically feasible? i.e.
+10% to all Burn damage from spells this character casts
-1 to any enemy saving throws against spells this character casts
+10% radius for all AoE spells this character casts
Since spellcasters are already viable as single-class characters and don't really need a boost (unlike Thieves), maybe always combine a bonus and a penalty in each meta-magic feat?
This comes close to HLA's, but extra spell slots? Or feats to allow wandusage of other spellcasting classes? Kind of like a D&D 3.5 Cleric with the Magic Domain gets UMD as a class skill. Or a feat that makes Dispel Magic more powerful, or targeted?
With feats for all classes, there could be some interesting options:
We can have a lot of mage kits if the specialist mages are done through feats. Also maybe remove some abilities from the base classes and give them the option to get them by feat? Or improvements to class feats.
Spellcaster: Metamagic feats - Sequencers and innate Contingency (As you said) - Damage bonus for one element/spell-type (is it possible to make penalties? Like 10% fire -5%frost etc.)
Clerics (feat every 4 levels): - Divine Protection: DR gives 5% damage reduction (Make Clerics tank a little bit better) - Combat feats (+to-hit, Damage, AC etc.)
Paladins (feat every 3/4 levels): - Improved Turn undead (Turn to level) - Improved Lay on hands (Additional uses or Double the power) - Improved Detect evil (Additional to-hit and damage against evil?) - Improved Protection from evil (Protection from Evil, 10' Radius) - More spells - Higher casting level
Ranger (feat every 3/4 levels): - Summon animal companion (almost like a normal summing animal spell, but an Animal that levels with you or can be improved through feats) - More spells - Higher casting level - Backstab
Druid: - Better Shapeshifting (dire bear etc.)
Multiclass feats (feat every 5 levels): Fighter/Mage: - Combat Magic: Maybe some spells that can be used in melee (the Duskblade kit from hat some nice spells, that could be cast on your weapon, for example Chill Touch)
Just some brainstorming. Maybe I will add more later (when I find the time)
That sound great, but also like a lot of work. Thanks again for doing this Level-dependent feats -> Sweet (this gives great balancing options) You always keep me postponing my new walkthrough
Any chance of a thief/bard HLA element? Or a refinements compatability patch for HLA's? (which might be as simple as making sure to copy rather than modify the HLA traps you're using for non HLA traps) Right now I'm installing this, then refinements HLAs and just accepting that the trap elements of this will have their balance borked because I really, really like all the refinements goodies.
Also, bug report. Soulblade is getting access to non-psi thief feats, which is supposed to be the corsair's thing.
Edit: Also, Soulblade is able to get 4 star weapon mastery with SoB weapon mastery tweaks installed.
Edit Edit: Having to target the saving throw bonus feat on self after picking it is highly counterintutive. And I can't seem to get Contingency: Escape to show up.
Wanted to get my 2 cents in while I had a spare moment.
So I have never played this game and went "Man, I wish I had more uses from these arcane scrolls." Generally speaking, the critical factor for me resting/not resting was whether or not I had the HP to keep going, or the healing spells to recoup. I dunno. It would make the first few levels easier to deal with I suppose, but after about level 4 or 5 I think it's superfluous. With that in mind, I think that might actually be a good change for healing scrolls, since it would decrease reliance on a dedicated healer, something that's very difficult to go without in this game.
also how about this: consumables that would change (enhance) properties of standard bard song? for example, you drink beer and song grants +1 dmg, on top of everything else (voice becomes more raspy and viking-y no?). or maybe portions, like drinking a portion of fortitude, gives additional hp bonus to bard song, potion of invulnerability gives an additional +1 to saves etc.
the mechanic could be called "inspiration", so say you're a bard, you drink a potion, feel empowered and your song becomes better. kinda lame, but it would make for a potion-focused class and there is no such class currently. better than being focused on scrolls. that'd be boring, because it's just the same old spells.
not a slightest clue if is technically possible of course...
I been thinking about this bard problem. It was bothering me all morning and so I came up with a bunch of possibilities. I apologize for the length of this post.
The Multiclass Kit You've been talking about wanting the Bard to be closer to a multiclass mage-thief... why not just make bards a multiclass thief-mage kit? Their schtick would be the bardsong, and you might be able to do something that would slow the spell progresssion and grant attack bonuses to bring them more in line to what bards are supposed to feel like.
Pros: Best of both worlds, you get spells and thief abilities and the bardsong.
Cons: I feel like it would be very difficult to implement the various bard kits, and I'm afraid this approach would just generally lose a lot of the bard's flavor.
The Thief Approach So this is basically the idea/one of the ideas you're playing with - you could simply make the bard kits thief kits, but the problem is "how on earth do I implement spells?" The obvious answer is through special abilities, maybe using your feat system. Obviously, there would have to be a pretty heavy penalty on how many thief points a character gets, but at least they would be able to control where they go.
Pros: You get thief abilities and easier control over the kits.
Cons: Implementing spells seems like a nightmare.
A thought on this one, might be doable and also make your life easier: You could manage the spells by making them more like Sorcerer spells, but available through the special ability option. At various levels, players could pick spells, perhaps from a dialogue system, and they would have uses per day. You could adjust the rate they gain spells to more closely match a sorcerer of comparable casting level, which would mean you would have fewer abilities to deal with. You could also limit the spells available to "bardy" spells, like Dnd does in other systems, ie stick to primarily to illusion and enchantment, with some other things in there too for flavor. Would further lessen the number of spells you would have to deal with. You could even throw some healing spells in there to make them really versatile.
The Bardsong Approach Rather than struggle with actual arcane spells, give bards a variety of flavored bardsongs to the bardic thief kits that they can pick from your feat system. They could each have an effect that relates to a school of magic. For example, an illusion bardsong might regularly generate a mirror image for you, maybe once every other round, and another might blur your allies. A necromantic dirge-song might summon a skeleton every few rounds - it would never be as strong as a skelly warrior, but they would keep coming and work as fodder. Yet another song might be an enchantment-based song that simply buffs allies, as normal, or confuses enemies, like the jestersong. Players could get more than one, but only one could be used at a time.
Pros: Lots of flavor, still feels like magic, get to keep thief abilities. And depending on how you implement it, you might be able to get away with the bardsongs not counting as arcane spells.
Cons: Lose out on arcane spells, not sure how easy/not easy this would be to implement.
If you like this idea I can def come up with other bardsongs. For the record this is my favorite idea.
The Hack Approach Fudge thief abilities as special ability spell-likes that regular bards get, maybe through feats. So they could get "detect traps" as a spell-like, some uses of invisibility, maybe a use of see invisibility.... stuff like that.
Pros: You get to keep bards in the bard class and would have minimal amount of work to bridge the thief gap.
Cons: Definitely feels hacky and bards will never be able to disarm traps because that spell doesn't do that.
Combination Approach You could combine some of these. Maybe keep the regular bard kits and make them the "magical" kits, while giving them access to the bardsongs described above, while the thief kits would be, well, the "thiefy" kits with access to sneaking around and such. You could also take a selection of spells that would be available to characters as feats, that they get more uses of as they level. They can then pick and choose which spells they really want, and mix and match them with bardsong and whatever other "bardy" abilities you want to come up with. You could even throw some of the abilities from the hack in there, if you want.
Other Thoughts I really like the idea that bardsongs do not prevent you from taking other actions. I never used bardsong for that reason - it simply wasn't worth the cost of taking a body out of the fight. Weakening them but making them available at all/most times would make them much more appealing. If you wanted to have a drawback, you could slow characters playing songs to represent the whole "I have to focus on singing or whatever to keep this up so I'm not going to move as fast."
Comments
Another thing I've noticed Soulblade can't access Telekinesis and Biokinesis skills (as it stated in description) and instead gets rogue skills and can select backstab increase and Coarser can't access Swashbuckler's escape ability.
Also (it is more YARAS) Dragonskale armor is treated not as leather and Raconteurs Regalia is bard armor that don't prevent spell casting as such should not get +2 penalty.
Found it: apparently, those are EE 2.0 features and IWD EE doesn't get a 2.0 patch. (At least none that I found, if I'm missing anything, it would be great if someone pointed it out to me.)
- +10% to all Burn damage from spells this character casts
- -1 to any enemy saving throws against spells this character casts
- +10% radius for all AoE spells this character casts
Since spellcasters are already viable as single-class characters and don't really need a boost (unlike Thieves), maybe always combine a bonus and a penalty in each meta-magic feat?Or a feat that makes Dispel Magic more powerful, or targeted?
We can have a lot of mage kits if the specialist mages are done through feats.
Also maybe remove some abilities from the base classes and give them the option to get them by feat? Or improvements to class feats.
Spellcaster: Metamagic feats
- Sequencers and innate Contingency (As you said)
- Damage bonus for one element/spell-type (is it possible to make penalties? Like 10% fire -5%frost etc.)
Clerics (feat every 4 levels):
- Divine Protection: DR gives 5% damage reduction (Make Clerics tank a little bit better)
- Combat feats (+to-hit, Damage, AC etc.)
Paladins (feat every 3/4 levels):
- Improved Turn undead (Turn to level)
- Improved Lay on hands (Additional uses or Double the power)
- Improved Detect evil (Additional to-hit and damage against evil?)
- Improved Protection from evil (Protection from Evil, 10' Radius)
- More spells
- Higher casting level
Ranger (feat every 3/4 levels):
- Summon animal companion (almost like a normal summing animal spell, but an Animal that levels with you or can be improved through feats)
- More spells
- Higher casting level
- Backstab
Druid:
- Better Shapeshifting (dire bear etc.)
Multiclass feats (feat every 5 levels):
Fighter/Mage:
- Combat Magic: Maybe some spells that can be used in melee (the Duskblade kit from hat some nice spells, that could be cast on your weapon, for example Chill Touch)
Just some brainstorming. Maybe I will add more later (when I find the time)
Level-dependent feats -> Sweet (this gives great balancing options)
You always keep me postponing my new walkthrough
Thanks.
Also, bug report. Soulblade is getting access to non-psi thief feats, which is supposed to be the corsair's thing.
Edit: Also, Soulblade is able to get 4 star weapon mastery with SoB weapon mastery tweaks installed.
Edit Edit: Having to target the saving throw bonus feat on self after picking it is highly counterintutive.
And I can't seem to get Contingency: Escape to show up.
So I have never played this game and went "Man, I wish I had more uses from these arcane scrolls." Generally speaking, the critical factor for me resting/not resting was whether or not I had the HP to keep going, or the healing spells to recoup. I dunno. It would make the first few levels easier to deal with I suppose, but after about level 4 or 5 I think it's superfluous. With that in mind, I think that might actually be a good change for healing scrolls, since it would decrease reliance on a dedicated healer, something that's very difficult to go without in this game.
that would be awesome
also how about this: consumables that would change (enhance) properties of standard bard song? for example, you drink beer and song grants +1 dmg, on top of everything else (voice becomes more raspy and viking-y no?). or maybe portions, like drinking a portion of fortitude, gives additional hp bonus to bard song, potion of invulnerability gives an additional +1 to saves etc.
the mechanic could be called "inspiration", so say you're a bard, you drink a potion, feel empowered and your song becomes better. kinda lame, but it would make for a potion-focused class and there is no such class currently. better than being focused on scrolls. that'd be boring, because it's just the same old spells.
not a slightest clue if is technically possible of course...
The Multiclass Kit
You've been talking about wanting the Bard to be closer to a multiclass mage-thief... why not just make bards a multiclass thief-mage kit? Their schtick would be the bardsong, and you might be able to do something that would slow the spell progresssion and grant attack bonuses to bring them more in line to what bards are supposed to feel like.
Pros: Best of both worlds, you get spells and thief abilities and the bardsong.
Cons: I feel like it would be very difficult to implement the various bard kits, and I'm afraid this approach would just generally lose a lot of the bard's flavor.
The Thief Approach
So this is basically the idea/one of the ideas you're playing with - you could simply make the bard kits thief kits, but the problem is "how on earth do I implement spells?" The obvious answer is through special abilities, maybe using your feat system. Obviously, there would have to be a pretty heavy penalty on how many thief points a character gets, but at least they would be able to control where they go.
Pros: You get thief abilities and easier control over the kits.
Cons: Implementing spells seems like a nightmare.
A thought on this one, might be doable and also make your life easier: You could manage the spells by making them more like Sorcerer spells, but available through the special ability option. At various levels, players could pick spells, perhaps from a dialogue system, and they would have uses per day. You could adjust the rate they gain spells to more closely match a sorcerer of comparable casting level, which would mean you would have fewer abilities to deal with. You could also limit the spells available to "bardy" spells, like Dnd does in other systems, ie stick to primarily to illusion and enchantment, with some other things in there too for flavor. Would further lessen the number of spells you would have to deal with. You could even throw some healing spells in there to make them really versatile.
The Bardsong Approach
Rather than struggle with actual arcane spells, give bards a variety of flavored bardsongs to the bardic thief kits that they can pick from your feat system. They could each have an effect that relates to a school of magic. For example, an illusion bardsong might regularly generate a mirror image for you, maybe once every other round, and another might blur your allies. A necromantic dirge-song might summon a skeleton every few rounds - it would never be as strong as a skelly warrior, but they would keep coming and work as fodder. Yet another song might be an enchantment-based song that simply buffs allies, as normal, or confuses enemies, like the jestersong. Players could get more than one, but only one could be used at a time.
Pros: Lots of flavor, still feels like magic, get to keep thief abilities. And depending on how you implement it, you might be able to get away with the bardsongs not counting as arcane spells.
Cons: Lose out on arcane spells, not sure how easy/not easy this would be to implement.
If you like this idea I can def come up with other bardsongs. For the record this is my favorite idea.
The Hack Approach
Fudge thief abilities as special ability spell-likes that regular bards get, maybe through feats. So they could get "detect traps" as a spell-like, some uses of invisibility, maybe a use of see invisibility.... stuff like that.
Pros: You get to keep bards in the bard class and would have minimal amount of work to bridge the thief gap.
Cons: Definitely feels hacky and bards will never be able to disarm traps because that spell doesn't do that.
Combination Approach
You could combine some of these. Maybe keep the regular bard kits and make them the "magical" kits, while giving them access to the bardsongs described above, while the thief kits would be, well, the "thiefy" kits with access to sneaking around and such. You could also take a selection of spells that would be available to characters as feats, that they get more uses of as they level. They can then pick and choose which spells they really want, and mix and match them with bardsong and whatever other "bardy" abilities you want to come up with. You could even throw some of the abilities from the hack in there, if you want.
Other Thoughts
I really like the idea that bardsongs do not prevent you from taking other actions. I never used bardsong for that reason - it simply wasn't worth the cost of taking a body out of the fight. Weakening them but making them available at all/most times would make them much more appealing. If you wanted to have a drawback, you could slow characters playing songs to represent the whole "I have to focus on singing or whatever to keep this up so I'm not going to move as fast."
lmk what you think.