What race is he?

Winterisle

So, I like having a folder full of all kind of portraits, specially for my Black Pits parties. The thing is, a lot of times I find it hard to difference the race of some of the character portraits. I'm not always absolutely sure of their sex part of the time...

Take for example this well known in-game portrait:



I suppose it has to be a halfling, but that little beard sometimes makes me doubt. I keep reading that halflings can't grow beards.

If I am not the only person with this" obsession" (am I?), this could be a good thread to analyze portraits.

JuliusBorisov

A wonderful idea for a thread. Especially if the artists could come and tell themselves Mike Sass, if you have time ...

To me, the portrait in the OP can suit halflings just fine (although he has a beard), as it can suit gnomes and humans.

I've been wondering about this portrait from BGEE bonus by @JasonManley



I've chosen it as a dwarf's portrait but one can say that there's a human on the portrait.

semiticgoddess

I remember that leprechaun. It's my least favorite portrait, and BG2 had some very homely portraits.

AstroBryGuy

bengoshi said:

A wonderful idea for a thread. Especially if the artists could come and tell themselves Mike Sass, if you have time ...

To me, the portrait in the OP can suit halflings just fine (although he has a beard), as it can suit gnomes and humans.

With those sideburns, he could be a Stout halfling.

Unlike Hairfeet and Tallfellows, male Stouts can grow some facial hair, although not full beards; usually it takes the form of unusually thick sideburns or muttonchops. - Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings

Son_of_Imoen

When I took the portrait in the OP on a ride through the Swordcoast, I made him an gnome Thief-Illusionist.

Winterisle

bengoshi said:

To me, the portrait in the OP can suit halflings just fine (although he has a beard), as it can suit gnomes and humans.

I've been wondering about this portrait from BGEE bonus by @JasonManley



I've chosen it as a dwarf's portrait but one can say that there's a human on the portrait.

I'm going to say that that's a human. Doesn't have one of those huge dwarven-shaped heads, but it could do as a dwarf.

I'm pretty sure that the guy on my portrait is a halfling. My theory is that the "halflings don't grow beards" came a bit after BG1, or whenever the portrait was created.

TheArtisan

Well BG1 had Coran with human ears and Viconia's, uh, whatever the hell it is so I would take its lore integration with a grain of salt. He looks like he has pointy ears so a gnome would make the most sense.

elminster

I'd say he's a halfling. Maybe just one that was hit by some wild magic gone awry.

lunar

I believe halflings have a more youthful face, while gnomes look older and uglier with more wrinkles. So that portrait is a gnome illusionist, methinks. But curly hair is more halflingy, I dunno. Then again Montaron's portrait does not look like baby face, much, but he has an awful grimace in that shot. Like the infamous Faldorn portrait. Alora is a babe, though.

@bengoshi I never noticed until now but that portrait has a seriously creepy stare! Those eyes! I did not notice them when the pic was small but when this big...ugh I can not take my eyes away, it eats at my soul with that glare of death.

Yamcha

He's an Irishman, not an leprechaun.

Clearly those 2 portraits were meant for multiple races. Gnome/Halfling/Human and Human/Dwarf as important details are missing that would 100% identify the race. (height, feet)

"Nearly all male halflings are incapable of growing true beards, though many have long sideburns. "

mashedtaters

It's definitely a gnome. An ugly gnome.

dunbar

Not for one instant did I think that the second portrait was anything other than human - if he's a dwarf and looking down at me like that, how short am I?
Personally I prefer ambiguous portraits (of which I don't think there are enough) because a lot of them are class specific anyway and half of them are already allocated to npcs (why are they included as an option anyway?) so a lot of the time I don't actually have any choice at all as to which portrait to use.

lunar

The second portrait, my friend used it for his half orc barbarian. Towering height, and odd-purplish skin color. Maybe. Lore says some half orcs look similiar to humans. Some are very ugly and brutish looking with misshapen nose-canine teeth etc. like the stock half orc portrait in the game. I think Dorn is somewhere between the two extremes.

Rodrian

Is there someone who recalls, if there is a dialogue or "exposition", that proves Montaron's a halfling?

(Actually, this should rot in "Little things that annoy you" thread, because for all these years of me playing BG, I was teased by a question: "shouldn't he be a AOdamn gnome?")

AstroBryGuy

Rodrian said:

Is there someone who recalls, if there is a dialogue or "exposition", that proves Montaron's a halfling?

(Actually, this should rot in "Little things that annoy you" thread, because for all these years of me playing BG, I was teased by a question: "shouldn't he be a AOdamn gnome?")

Dorn refers to Monty as a halfling.

... DORN: What others say about me?! Bah. Who dares gossip about me?
CHARNAME: It was Montaron.
MONTY: My tongue's not half as sharp as this blade—
DORN: Die, halfling!

Also, his character record screen clearly says "Halfling" and he uses the halfling avatar. So, he's a halfling.

JuliusBorisov

Not to imply anything, @AstroBryGuy , but just a note. I think we all here know that Montaron uses the halfling avatar and his race is shown as "Halfing" on the record screen. The question (or should we call it just "post") by @Rodrian was about whether the portrait suited a halfling or not, because to him that portrait looked like a gnome.

And it's worth noting that "all these years of playing BG" we didn't have the EE content and thus couldn't read any dialogue with Dorn.

AstroBryGuy

My apologies if my reply to @Rodrian was snarky @bengoshi.

In the portrait, Montaron has no beard and his nose is embarrassingly small for a gnome.

If it's the ears, then note Alora has pointy ears, while Jan Jansen does not (see below; Quayle's and Tiax's ears are not shown well enough to establish pointy-ness, but they both have beards like Jan).

EDIT: Also, from BG2, a dialog between Minsc and Xzar that refers to Monty as a halfling:

If you have Minsc in the party when you meet Xzar, he says, "You! I remember you! And so does Boo! A craven wizard who travels with his untrustworthy halfling!"

Winterisle

Here's another one that bugs me a lot:



Halfling or gnome? I think that in NWN it's considered a halfling. I see a halfling in every aspect, except for the slight facial hair and the rather large nose.

lunar

He may be a homely half-elf, too! But maybe he is not that ugly, that face is perfectly excusable when your bandages are soaked through with blood.
Elves don't get beards but half elves do, right?

Rodrian

@AstroBryGuy in fact, your previous response was pretty on point

After second consideration, I guess that the record scr. and dialogues are more reliable than a portrait, which we can change so easily by ourselves...
Hmm, I reconsidered my mind: what REALLY annoys me now, is that the BG portraits artists probably were so *disordered* and *unaware* during work...

So I assume, that after "all these years of playing BG" it's time to *improve* some of in-game art

PS -

AstroBryGuy said:

In the portrait, Montaron has no beard and his nose is embarrassingly small for a gnome.

Well, we can see some "puberty hair" on his chin and also, that's not a nose - it's as much *potato-gnomish* as possible

PPS - @bengoshi, I really appreciate your backup ^^

---

@Winterisle - again, looks like someone lost a "track" making this one as well (comparing FR lore).

Gotural

Rodrian said:

what REALLY annoys me now, is that the BG portraits artists probably were so *disordered* and *unaware* during work...

I always assumed that the portraits were imprecise to allow them to be used by multiple characters.

I think it was did on purpose, to me that first portrait is a Human merchant for example.

Sanctifer

When I played the original BG1 back in the days, i rolled a halfling cleric (or was he a fighter/cleric ? I'm not sure) with that portrait, and the paperdoll was an exact match, same shirt and "undershirt", same sideburns, same leather thing barring his chest, perfect.
So to me he's definitely a halfling cleric.

Winterisle said:

So, I like having a folder full of all kind of portraits, specially for my Black Pits parties. The thing is, a lot of times I find it hard to difference the race of some of the character portraits. I'm not always absolutely sure of their sex part of the time...

Take for example this well known in-game portrait:



I suppose it has to be a halfling, but that little beard sometimes makes me doubt. I keep reading that halflings can't grow beards.

If I am not the only person with this" obsession" (am I?), this could be a good thread to analyze portraits.

Yelocessej

It's whatever you want it to be. Just look at Coran's mugshot. Also, Mr. Green Hat and Chops was the alternate portrait for Edwin in the original game if you had chosen his portrait for your own.

Son_of_Imoen

I'm thinking about going for the 'achievement' of having used all vanilla portraits (the bonus ones would take me a lot more time, as I haven't used even one yet, I also exclude all portraits that belong to an NPC in the game).

I have used the 'Abdel' portrait for Sir Gilgamesh, a Cavalier who became Lord of the De'Arnise Stronghold in a romance with Nalia.

I have used the 'halfling' from the OP as the gnome thief-illusionist called Koriand that's the default if you choose to import the pre-made character file for Thief-Mage in BG Tutu (and in BG1 vanilla?).

I have used the bald fighter with the ring-beard for R'am, a berserker dualed to cleric.

Right now I'm thinking about creating a playthrough with this girl:



I'm wondering if I could pretend she's a pretty gnome girl, with the slightly knobby nose and pointed ears?

One portrait I'll exclude from my all portraits achievements because I find it too comical and ugly is this one though:



According to portraits.chosenofmystra.net he's an elf, but you get this portrait if in BG Tutu, you import the default Thief .cre file and then he's a halfling, so even though I won't use him, he's a valid entry for this topic. Discuss!

Son_of_Imoen

One slighty off-topic thing about BG:EE's portraits that makes me wonder, is why the green (half)orc portrait in BG2:EE (as well as in Tutu, where I used it for a half-orc fighter-cleric in a duo-run with Imoen as Thief>Mage) is missing from the first EE game?

It becomes more on-topic if you look at him and realise he looks more orcish than half-orcish, but you can play him as a half-orc only as a race.



(the image is low-res as I took it from a Tutu screenshot - I just found out to my dismay there's no quick way to create character in BG2:EE without watching and clicking through the whole opening scene as there's no Pre-Generate option in BG2:EE :0 )

deltago

Son_of_Imoen said:

One slighty off-topic thing about BG:EE's portraits that makes me wonder, is why the green (half)orc portrait in BG2:EE (as well as in Tutu, where I used it for a half-orc fighter-cleric in a duo-run with Imoen as Thief>Mage) is missing from the first EE game?

It becomes more on-topic if you look at him and realise he looks more orcish than half-orcish, but you can play him as a half-orc only as a race.



(the image is low-res as I took it from a Tutu screenshot - I just found out to my dismay there's no quick way to create character in BG2:EE without watching and clicking through the whole opening scene as there's no Pre-Generate option in BG2:EE :0 )

The half-orc portrait wad originally available in BG2, when half-orcs were added as a player race. It wasnt available in BG:ee because it was in the vanilla version.

The elf with feathers in his hair was my half-elven jester.

The blond elf is my favourite portrait and have used it many times as an elven cleric, elven archer, halfling cleric, elven sorcerer, gnome illusion thief, gnome cleric thief.

Son_of_Imoen

deltago said:

The half-orc portrait wad originally available in BG2, when half-orcs were added as a player race. It wasnt available in BG:ee because it was in the vanilla version.

In the vanilla version half-orcs weren't a playable race, but the EE edition is based on the original BG2 engine, including the possibility to play half-orcs, making it possible to play a half-orc in the first part of the saga. So it would be logical if they included this portrait in BG:EE as well. Or would it be against the contract of not being allowed to fiddle with original content, only adding new things?

deltago

Son_of_Imoen said:

deltago said:

The half-orc portrait wad originally available in BG2, when half-orcs were added as a player race. It wasnt available in BG:ee because it was in the vanilla version.

In the vanilla version half-orcs weren't a playable race, but the EE edition is based on the original BG2 engine, including the possibility to play half-orcs, making it possible to play a half-orc in the first part of the saga. So it would be logical if they included this portrait in BG:EE as well. Or would it be against the contract of not being allowed to fiddle with original content, only adding new things?

Probably against the contract because none of the BG2 portraits were included.

Winterisle

Son_of_Imoen said:

According to portraits.chosenofmystra.net he's an elf, but you get this portrait if in BG Tutu, you import the default Thief .cre file and then he's a halfling, so even though I won't use him, he's a valid entry for this topic. Discuss!

To me he looks like an elf, but in BG that's Deders portrait, the halfling fighter/thief of Candlekeep that you can encounter during your training before leaving with Gorion or in the Catacombs on your return. I found this screencap on another thread:

AstroBryGuy

Winterisle said:

Son_of_Imoen said:

According to portraits.chosenofmystra.net he's an elf, but you get this portrait if in BG Tutu, you import the default Thief .cre file and then he's a halfling, so even though I won't use him, he's a valid entry for this topic. Discuss!

To me he looks like an elf, but in BG that's Deders portrait, the halfling fighter/thief of Candlekeep that you can encounter during your training before leaving with Gorion or in the Catacombs on your return. I found this screencap on another thread:

The filename is GENMELFL.BMP, so I'd say Bioware thought it looked like an elf too.

It can be whatever race you want it to be. Maybe someone likes un-bearded, pointy-eared dwarves?

I do also note that the portrait for Osprey, the Cleric-Mage, is wearing armor and holding a sword.

Grum

AstroBryGuy said:

Winterisle said:

Son_of_Imoen said:

According to portraits.chosenofmystra.net he's an elf, but you get this portrait if in BG Tutu, you import the default Thief .cre file and then he's a halfling, so even though I won't use him, he's a valid entry for this topic. Discuss!

To me he looks like an elf, but in BG that's Deders portrait, the halfling fighter/thief of Candlekeep that you can encounter during your training before leaving with Gorion or in the Catacombs on your return. I found this screencap on another thread:

The filename is GENMELFL.BMP, so I'd say Bioware thought it looked like an elf too.

It can be whatever race you want it to be. Maybe someone likes un-bearded, pointy-eared dwarves?

I do also note that the portrait for Osprey, the Cleric-Mage, is wearing armor and holding a sword.

You mean this?