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Why do games continue to survive (not the best title but)

DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
edited June 2016 in Off-Topic
Ok I wasn't sure if I should put this in general discussion or off topic even though BG is apart of this.

Why do some old games continue to survive, ok no continue to survive might not be the right phrase. How about, continued to be played almost religiously? Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, and my personal religiously played game final fantasy tactics.

My own personal vice again is FFT, I played this game when I was younger, did every thing possible in this game. Took the main character, unlocked every class for him, got all those classes to level 10. Got him and my entire team, even characters i never played to level 99. I hunted for all the secret characters, unlocked all the special items and secret weapons. I knew the story like the back of my hand and when all was said and done what do you think i did?

Went back and played it all over again, I had my main 100% completion save and then I had several other saved files. Each play through, I didn't progress chapter one unless I was a specific class. While this might seem "so what"to some of you, but to people who may remember the game. You may remember there were some weapons that didn't even become available until chapter 3, and chapter one was the most story driven chapter out of all of them. After you met with Ramza's brother at the castle, you could only have random encounters on Madalia Plain, constantly going between The Magick City of Gariland and Eagrose Castle, and this was hell! Its early game, YOu have almost no potions, very minimal equipment and if you have to fight a entire team of yellow chocobo... yea just -bleep- your life. Add onto that random encounters don't seem to happen as often in chapter 1. When you're just trying to continue the story, they seem like they always happen, but when you have a set goal in mind they never come.

Add onto the fact to unlock classes, required certain classes to reach certain level. While classes like summoner and monk were straight forward, unlocking Dancer required a level 5 geomancer and level 5 dragoon, or a samurai required level 5 monk, level 4 knight, and a level 2 dragoon. Add onto this samurai and dragoons base weapons didn't come out until chapter 3. I did mention I played the game with literally every class and I'm not talking about unlocking them as I played, I mean I unlocked them in chapter 1 the very second I was able to move on my own. This includes mime... who requires... a level 5 summoner, level 8 chemist, level 8 squire, level 5 geomancer, level 5 dragooner, and level 5 orator.

I also did this with final fantasy tactics the lions war on psp, my very first play through, I didn't leave chapter 1 until I was a dark knight... and level freaking 47! I've done it so far, I'll share the requirements to unlock this thing. Collect 20 crystals from 20 kills (by far the most effing annoying part), mastered knight, a masted Black mag (these two were not effing east, and hands down the most time consuming; to master a class you have to learn ALL of its abilities, needless to say I got them both to level 10 before mastering them), Level 8 samurai. level 8 dragoon, level 8 ninja. Just to unlock this class you had to unlock classes like samurai and ninja who in their own right both require a low, mid, and high tier classes to unlock. Classes which main weapons aren't even available until chapter 3! Especially with samurai who requires you to have several different types of katanas in your inventory to even use its Spirit in the sword abilities.

I would do this all again in heartbeat because I am just so in love with that game! Final fantasy Tactics is a linear story based game that once you beat it, you may miss out on some secret but ultimately the story doesn't change much like morrowind and baldur's gate (yea I said it; hate me all you want) , and yet the game commands so much devotion in me, much like morrowind and BG does to its loyal fan base, but why? What is it really about these games that many of us have played a thousand times, stories and fights We've repeated over and over again with different characters and classes; already knowing what tactics will work and what the outcome will be. We know the vast majority of the game, we know the secrets and the wonders, so why do we still continue to return to them and play what we've played a thousand times?

Edit,
For those of you who are actually interested, here is a map layout of the classes, as obvious the left side is physical and the right side is more magic based, but geomancer is more magic based physical and mimes are annoying a-holes. Also dancer is more magical than physical, like the bard. But unlike the bard who supports with his spells, dancer causes debuffs with her dances.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/3/3a/FFTWOTLjob.png/revision/latest?cb=20110226011805

TheGraveDiggerRavenslightNonnahswritermashedtatersJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
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Comments

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @BelgarathMTH
    No, I was using FFT as my example, since it is the vary game that falls under that category for me. For example, I can't play baldur's gate the same way. I've beat it twice already, and every playthrough i've attempted so far literally ended with me stopping out of boredom. It is still a very linear story driven game much like fft (seriously like many other wrpg I've played you have to illusion of choice but most choices ultimately leads to one of 2 outcomes), So I can't really use a game that doesn't pull out that passion that I'm ultimately trying to question the why does it exist.

    While I know a lot of members can do and feel the exact same way about bg, in my time of making a nuisance out of myself on these forums, I've read multiple post from multiple veteran members of the forums who talk on the level of how they have and can play BG inside out and never lose its luster (much like myself and FFT). Doing it in the modern day will definitely has a lot to do with nostalgia. The problem here is, the above, up until I started talking about the dark knight which wasn't in the original FFT as a playable class (trust me I trade everything short of a gameshark to get it in the original), but the the infatuation for the game that didn't vanish over the years.

    I fell in love with many games over the years, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Rise of nations, Mortal Kombat, Zone of the Enders, Evil Genius, Baldur's Gate, Elemental series, Smite, Demigod, Phantom Dust, The Divinity series, and many many others but the only game that has ever came close to entrapping me was the original Phantom Dust and to a lesser extent, Rise of nations thrones and patriots.

    Hell the only Reason I probably have more hours in FFT than Phantom dust is because I didn't even know about PD when it came out. It went so far under the radar that I only saw a single advertisement for it, ever and it was randomly on the internet.

    But again, the purpose of the discussion was not to discuss the game itself per-say but the actual connection that is created between that game and the gamer. Like I said I fell in love with BG or Divinity Original sins, but I can't play it like when I first fell in love with FFT when I was young. It could be said that maybe the age also played a important part of creating that level of connection, just like how a lot of strong connections I see with BG also comes from those players connection with DND table top rpg.

    A interesting story, I don't feel will be too far off here...

    Every so often I try to get my roommate to play with me in Rise of nations. Rise of nations is a game I really love, but I don't play that often. I'll binge it and then stop playing for a 7 months to a year or so and than binge it again. Almost every single time I try to get him to play he declines and when I ask him why responds. "Because I'm going to get destroyed and I don't like resource management games." I always reply,"I haven't played this game in forever and I barely remember anything about how to play it efficiently" (which is usually try). He corresponds with this, "Yea, but there are something gamers just never forget and for you those two things are Rise of nations, and playing phantom dust!" He really hates my two aura arsenal... god I miss that game.

    Now the purpose of this story is the idea that even after years of not playing, we ultimately never forget how to play that game, but the thing is we first have to get to the where it becomes engraved in use from the get go.

    Ok, I suck at explaining what I'm trying to convey here and this is why I'm not a literature major >.>

    BelgarathMTH
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    Erg said:

    Morrowind ? Do you mean the game for which, after 14 years, events like the Morrowind Modathon Month are still going strong ?

    Yes. :D

    Though I'll be honest, the only mod I use is the Morrowind Graphics Extender.

    BelgarathMTHErg
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    I need to play Morrowind again. The series lost me when I hated Oblivion. I barely even tried Skyrim before going "meh", quitting, and never going back to it.

    But Morrowind stands prominently in my memory. I was obsessed with it for a month or two once. The thing that stands out is how much there is to look around at. I used to sometimes spend a half hour or more just staring at the sky and studying the constellations and that big red moon or twin planet or whatever it is, and reading books.

    Unlike @Erg, I'm not much into mods nowadays. The one thing I might want to try to get working would be the mod that increases all the eye candy to look around at. Is that the "Morrowind Graphics Extender" you mentioned, @Troodon80 ?

    So, on the topic, why would you say I liked Morrowind, but only played it once, and hated Oblivion and Skyrim? (I can tell you the main thing I hated about Oblivion - the terrible level scaling. I didn't feel or notice any of the level scaling in Morrowind.)

    And yet, I have played Might and Magic 6-8, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, Sacred 2, and Titan Quest dozens of times and hundreds of hours (maybe I've even broken 1,000 hours) over the years.

    Looking at that profile, I think I can see a pattern, and what those particular games have in common. And I think it says more about my personality and life history than it does anything objective about the qualities of the games on that list.

    Troodon80JuliusBorisovsarevok57
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110

    The one thing I might want to try to get working would be the mod that increases all the eye candy to look around at. Is that the "Morrowind Graphics Extender" you mentioned, @Troodon80 ?

    It's probably one of a few things to improve the eye-candy. I use it to improve the view distance, the look of the water, and add flare to the sun. Here's an example I posted a while back. Here's a post from even earlier.

    JuliusBorisov
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited June 2016

    The one thing I might want to try to get working would be the mod that increases all the eye candy to look around at. Is that the "Morrowind Graphics Extender"

    @BelgarathMTH,

    I think you mean the Morrowind Overhaul - Sounds & Graphics 3.0 also known as MGSO, that includes among other mods/tools/programs also an (outdated) version of the "Morrowind Graphics Extender".

    MGSO is a compilation and, as such, is easy to install for newbie, but includes both good and bad mods (imho) and mostly outdated stuff. It includes also several bugs/issues that need to be fixed. If you still want to use it because of its user-friendliness I recommend taking a look at this thread, especially the temporary fixes for known issues at the last part of the first post.

    I personally prefer to create my own compilation by carefully handpicking mods.

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,946


    So, on the topic, why would you say I liked Morrowind, but only played it once, and hated Oblivion and Skyrim? (I can tell you the main thing I hated about Oblivion - the terrible level scaling. I didn't feel or notice any of the level scaling in Morrowind.)

    Morrowind does have some level scaling - there are two kinds of mob placement in the game. Static placement, which is always the same, and dynamic placement, which spawns based on your level and will also respawn so there will be monsters again when you go back later. This is most noticeable (to me) around Daedric temples, as the daedra that spawn around them grow more powerful as you increase in level.

    While the game could have had level scaling on Oblivion's level, it of course didn't, and I never really understood why Bethesda went the way they did with Oblivion when Morrowind was as well-received as it was. And I mean I like Oblivion.

    BelgarathMTH
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    edited June 2016
    @Erg , thanks for the information. Needing to troubleshoot bugs and incompatibilities, as well as avoiding "bad" mods, is one of the reasons I have gotten to where I prefer to just stay away from mods completely. Since I am considering playing Morrowind again for mostly nostalgia's sake, I think I will just stick to the vanilla game I remember being fond of. I can't remember if I've bought either the GoG or Steam version. I don't think I have. So, I will likely look for a special sale and buy it next time it gets promoted on either of those platforms. If you remember me later, I'd appreciate any heads-up you could give me about any sales you see. I have to stay on a tight budget about spending on games.

    BTW: That's also the reason I like the EE's so much, and will always choose them over Tutu or BGT, now and forever. I know that's going to be a point of disagreement between you and me. ;)

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    This topic has gone in a very interesting direction.

    BelgarathMTHmashedtaters
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,946

    @Erg , thanks for the information. Needing to troubleshoot bugs and incompatibilities, as well as avoiding "bad" mods, is one of the reasons I have gotten to where I prefer to just stay away from mods completely. Since I am considering playing Morrowind again for mostly nostalgia's sake, I think I will just stick to the vanilla game I remember being fond of. I can't remember if I've bought either the GoG or Steam version. I don't think I have. So, I will likely look for a special sale and buy it next time it gets promoted on either of those platforms. If you remember me later, I'd appreciate any heads-up you could give me about any sales you see. I have to stay on a tight budget about spending on games.

    BTW: That's also the reason I like the EE's so much, and will always choose them over Tutu or BGT, now and forever. I know that's going to be a point of disagreement between you and me. ;)

    So there's this website called Cheap Shark. What you can do is go there and have it monitor sales for specific games for you. You can tell it to look for Morrowind when it sells for $5, for example, and as soon as it is on sale for $5 or less you will receive a notification. I think Steam puts Morrowind on sale for $5 somewhat regularly, esp. during summer and winter sales. You can input any amount you're willing to pay, however.

    BelgarathMTHsemiticgod
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,381
    I really want to play Morrowind but I can never choose on a race/class/backstory >_>

    mashedtaters
  • mashedtatersmashedtaters Member Posts: 2,226
    @BelgarathMTH
    Have you tried Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul?
    I haven't, but I heard it's very good. It supposedly fixes that crappy level scaling.
    That was one of the reasons I got rid of oblivion. The level scaling was terrible.
    That was before I had really been introduced to the world of mods and modding.

    BelgarathMTHsemiticgodlolien
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,946
    Vallmyr said:

    I really want to play Morrowind but I can never choose on a race/class/backstory >_>

    The eternal struggle.

    I always end up going for Dunmer or Breton, with some kind of battle magery.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,450
    Hmm, I feel like this thread has gotten derailed. Morrowind got mentioned because a lot of people put it on their lists of timeless "games that survive". The topic was supposed to be "Why is that? What's in a game that makes it immortal?"

    If we want to start discussing actually playing Morrowind, I feel like we should request that a moderator separate out these Morrowind posts into a separate topic. I apologize for my role in derailing the thread.

    ErgsparkleavVallmyrJuliusBorisov
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    I am not sure the thread has been derailed, For instance, @Troodon80 gave a good list of reasons above why Morrowind is continuing to survive despite it not being the best title exactly as per the OP.

    JuliusBorisov
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,656
    @BelgarathMTH
    I was waiting to see if it would get back to the question at hand, you see when people start talking about these timeless games; its always filled with such "magic" and "wonder", but many never really question that magic and wonder. Most the time it gets written off as nostalgia, but isn't there many tings in the world beside video games that create just as much nostalgia for us, but we don't stay continue to do those thing years later down the line.

    sparkleavBelgarathMTH
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    I love some of the old arcade games, Asteroids, Tempest, Centipede, Galaga, Tron, Gorf. The graphics were terrible but the game play was awesome. I have been looking around at some of the new retro packs but haven't gotten anything yet since it won't recreate the feeling of being in the arcade, sweat and movie popcorn grease smells, trying to get the angle right so the lights didn't mess up the screen. I have played some of those with mame a few years ago but not the same so I didn't try any more.

    JuliusBorisov
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,946
    edited June 2016

    @BelgarathMTH
    I was waiting to see if it would get back to the question at hand, you see when people start talking about these timeless games; its always filled with such "magic" and "wonder", but many never really question that magic and wonder. Most the time it gets written off as nostalgia, but isn't there many tings in the world beside video games that create just as much nostalgia for us, but we don't stay continue to do those thing years later down the line.

    I kind of question writing nostalgia off as something "less than" other reasons for going back to play again. Nostalgia is a perfectly fine motivation to do something again.

    And people do go back to other media. Christopher Lee re-read the Lord of the Rings trilogy every year. I rewatch Buffy and Angel every couple of years (used to be every year) as well as Farscape. I used to read A Song of Ice and Fire every year. When I was young I read and reread the Chronicles of Narnia and Alice in Wonderland+Through the Looking Glass over and over. I will probably rewatch Lost soon, maybe Breaking Bad. All of these things have nostalgia for me.

    Post edited by BelleSorciere on
    mf2112NonnahswritersparkleavJuliusBorisov
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