@Alexisisinneed I thought for a minute that I was the only one that has issues with the yaun-ti. The yaun-ti archers and the yuan-ti mages both are tough the first time you encounter them for your party's average level. I actually never had a problem with "yezzie". I played IWD before I played BG and the first time I met yaun-ti mages in BG I buffed up my party like crazy and prepared to die and then I was like...wait, they went down way too easily. Am I doing something wrong here? Yeah, yaun-ti mages are almost a game-stopper for me the first time I encounter them. After a few levels, though, they get a lot easier.
@Alexisisinneed I thought for a minute that I was the only one that has issues with the yaun-ti. The yaun-ti archers and the yuan-ti mages both are tough the first time you encounter them for your party's average level. I actually never had a problem with "yezzie". I played IWD before I played BG and the first time I met yaun-ti mages in BG I buffed up my party like crazy and prepared to die and then I was like...wait, they went down way too easily. Am I doing something wrong here? Yeah, yaun-ti mages are almost a game-stopper for me the first time I encounter them. After a few levels, though, they get a lot easier.
I actually never had a problem with the mages. It's really only the archers I have a problem with. They never miss.
@Alexisisinneed I thought for a minute that I was the only one that has issues with the yaun-ti. The yaun-ti archers and the yuan-ti mages both are tough the first time you encounter them for your party's average level. I actually never had a problem with "yezzie". I played IWD before I played BG and the first time I met yaun-ti mages in BG I buffed up my party like crazy and prepared to die and then I was like...wait, they went down way too easily. Am I doing something wrong here? Yeah, yaun-ti mages are almost a game-stopper for me the first time I encounter them. After a few levels, though, they get a lot easier.
I actually never had a problem with the mages. It's really only the archers I have a problem with. They never miss.
@Alexisisinneed I thought for a minute that I was the only one that has issues with the yaun-ti. The yaun-ti archers and the yuan-ti mages both are tough the first time you encounter them for your party's average level. I actually never had a problem with "yezzie". I played IWD before I played BG and the first time I met yaun-ti mages in BG I buffed up my party like crazy and prepared to die and then I was like...wait, they went down way too easily. Am I doing something wrong here? Yeah, yaun-ti mages are almost a game-stopper for me the first time I encounter them. After a few levels, though, they get a lot easier.
I actually never had a problem with the mages. It's really only the archers I have a problem with. They never miss.
Closing to melee range and spamming low level crowd control spells like Chromatic Orb, Sunscorch and Command works against the archers I find.
The mages have never bothered me but I usually have skeleton summons to distract them.
Beetles because stun, Drow Vanguards because magic resistance and poison, and Lizard Man Shamans because Dispel Magic (which in vanilla worked 100% of the time).
But most of all, BELHIFET, because he's immune to all spells, all status effects, and weapons below +3. The whole fight is reduced to melee weapons and healing, putting caster-heavy and ranged-heavy parties at a severe disadvantage for no reason.
Permanent immunities are a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty.
Beetles because stun, Drow Vanguards because magic resistance and poison, and Lizard Man Shamans because Dispel Magic (which in vanilla worked 100% of the time).
But most of all, BELHIFET, because he's immune to all spells, all status effects, and weapons below +3. The whole fight is reduced to melee weapons and healing, putting caster-heavy and ranged-heavy parties at a severe disadvantage for no reason.
Permanent immunities are a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty.
No creative ways around those immunities @semiticgod? I'm disappointed in you
@Wowo: I'm afraid his spell level immunities really do block all spells in IWD. There are no spells that use level 0 effects, and IWD summons almost universally use nonmagical or low-enchantment weapons (there are no HLAs in IWD, so no Devas or Planetars etc.) meaning summoned critters can't hit Belhifet, either. And since IWD is still pre-2.0, Enchanted Weapon can't be used to boost the enchantment level of an existing weapon.
Belhifet has the most comprehensive set of immunities I've ever seen in any game, ever. He's even immune to all forms of stat drain, even though Mind Flayer form and Archer Called Shot STR drain couldn't bypass his weapon immunities to begin with. He's even immune to opcode 241, the charm variant that only appears in Control Undead and wouldn't work on him anyway.
He has more immunities than the player has weapons.
Beetles because stun, Drow Vanguards because magic resistance and poison, and Lizard Man Shamans because Dispel Magic (which in vanilla worked 100% of the time).
But most of all, BELHIFET, because he's immune to all spells, all status effects, and weapons below +3. The whole fight is reduced to melee weapons and healing, putting caster-heavy and ranged-heavy parties at a severe disadvantage for no reason.
Permanent immunities are a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty.
That may be why I had no issues with the guy, I had a full melee party.
@Wowo: I'm afraid his spell level immunities really do block all spells in IWD. There are no spells that use level 0 effects, and IWD summons almost universally use nonmagical or low-enchantment weapons (there are no HLAs in IWD, so no Devas or Planetars etc.) meaning summoned critters can't hit Belhifet, either. And since IWD is still pre-2.0, Enchanted Weapon can't be used to boost the enchantment level of an existing weapon.
Belhifet has the most comprehensive set of immunities I've ever seen in any game, ever. He's even immune to all forms of stat drain, even though Mind Flayer form and Archer Called Shot STR drain couldn't bypass his weapon immunities to begin with. He's even immune to opcode 241, the charm variant that only appears in Control Undead and wouldn't work on him anyway.
He has more immunities than the player has weapons.
I've read someone mention that spell immunity: school (one of them) works against the initial dispel magic, but not on the traps. Not tried it myself, but if it's true, can't you spell trigger three elementals (or other good summons) in between your party and Belfy right at the start? It could be a way to easily beat him without time stop for a lower level caster heavy party. Even if they can't damage him (not sure), they can draw the aggro and buy time for more summons.
The devs should at least allow things like Bigby's fist to damage him imo. No one should be able to resist some good old fashioned fisting.
@acolyte: Spell Immunity: Abjuration will block the Dispel Magic traps in the final fight. However, there's apparently only one Spell Immunity scroll in the game, in Trials of the Luremaster, which basically means only sorcerers get to use the spell.
A triple elemental summoning Spell Trigger would buy you some time, but Belhifet and his cronies will cut through all three of them within a few rounds, and summoning more critters would not be enough.
Belhifet also has very low AC, so a caster-heavy party would struggle to land hits on him, even if they did use buffs to increase their APR and damage.
I've seen an IWD:EE speedrun where the player used Black Blade of Disaster and multiple Time Stop spells to kill Belhifet. That's one reliable way to do it. But you wouldn't reach high enough levels to do that in a normal game with a full party; an average party would end up at level 16 or 17 by the end of IWD's main campaign.
Trying to solo IWD has left me with an unfortunate hate for trolls. They gang up on you. It takes a lot to take them down. And if you don't make that extra effort they will just come back again. All in all, they are perfect metaphors for every task I receive at work.
@semiticgod I remember besting Belhifet with archers in the past. Things may have changed, but there's that one tower in Dorn's Deep with enemy archers that fire Arrows of Piercing at you. Beating them quickly in that exposed space is hard, but if you do it, those count as +4 weapons that can hurt Belhifet quite badly. Okay, maybe not that badly with his damage resistance, but you at least stand a chance.
@Abi_Dalzim: True. Though I think the enchantment is actually +3 (only the THAC0 bonus is +4). And if IWD:EE ever gets an upgrade to 2.0+, we can use Enchanted Weapon to let archers use any missile weapons to hit Belhifet--that would be a very welcome change
But in vanilla, before EE, Arrows of Piercing struck as +0 magical weapons. Before Beamdog came along, Belhifet was immune to all missiles.
I'm just going to say my CHARNAME's familiar. Seems that everytime I wanna go somewhere it's always stuck on something impeding my progress. The crypt dungeon alone had me listening to "You must gather your party" for 45 mins.
I'm just going to say my CHARNAME's familiar. Seems that everytime I wanna go somewhere it's always stuck on something impeding my progress. The crypt dungeon alone had me listening to "You must gather your party" for 45 mins.
@Wowo: I'm afraid his spell level immunities really do block all spells in IWD. There are no spells that use level 0 effects, and IWD summons almost universally use nonmagical or low-enchantment weapons (there are no HLAs in IWD, so no Devas or Planetars etc.) meaning summoned critters can't hit Belhifet, either. And since IWD is still pre-2.0, Enchanted Weapon can't be used to boost the enchantment level of an existing weapon.
Belhifet has the most comprehensive set of immunities I've ever seen in any game, ever. He's even immune to all forms of stat drain, even though Mind Flayer form and Archer Called Shot STR drain couldn't bypass his weapon immunities to begin with. He's even immune to opcode 241, the charm variant that only appears in Control Undead and wouldn't work on him anyway.
He has more immunities than the player has weapons.
I tend to find that throwing a dwarven defender with near 100% physical damage immunity, with cleric backup, with a good way to take him down.
Vampires. Like, yeah, sure, I totally wanna have to go though the tedious process of 1. Having my cleric memorize Restoration/ run to the next temple. 2. Re-Pick all those bloody spells. 3. Rest.
The Luremaster's Spectral Guards are brutal. They normally outnumber you, they pack a punch, and they have what seems like a never ending supply of hit points.
Yup. they're living nightmares to solo fighters. They're the only reason I learned to keep a golden girdle and the best shield available in my pack at all times.
Recklessness. The most dangerous foe of all experienced adventurers. Even encyclopedic knowledge about the game doesn't help against it. Quite the opposite, the more you know the bigger your recklessness will be.
It isn't that they are all that powerful, but the sum of their parts adds up to a lot of pain. The temple of Eldath level in Dragon's Eye is still a house of horrors:
Well buffed packs of mages? check. really good CC spells like Feeblemind, Hold & Charm? Absolutely. Good ranged attackers? check. Good melee fighters? check. Annoying Trolls? yep. in semi-claustrophobic spaces that are hard to navigate and where you can easily get hung up on doors / narrow areas? What could go wrong?
--
Even with a party that "on paper" should have torn the Yuan-Ti a new one, they still forced a few re-loads & finally a trip back to Mother Egenia for a raise dead spell.
To put it differently, most of the fights in the game aren't that hard for a well equipped party, and with an odd reload or two can be cleared with everybody vertical at the end of the fight - except vs the Yuan-Ti where it seems like there is just enough chaos thrown into the mix where it is pretty easy to have something go horribly wrong - and potentially a complete group wipe.
Comments
I thought for a minute that I was the only one that has issues with the yaun-ti. The yaun-ti archers and the yuan-ti mages both are tough the first time you encounter them for your party's average level. I actually never had a problem with "yezzie".
I played IWD before I played BG and the first time I met yaun-ti mages in BG I buffed up my party like crazy and prepared to die and then I was like...wait, they went down way too easily. Am I doing something wrong here?
Yeah, yaun-ti mages are almost a game-stopper for me the first time I encounter them. After a few levels, though, they get a lot easier.
(sorry, I'll see myself out!)
The mages have never bothered me but I usually have skeleton summons to distract them.
But most of all, BELHIFET, because he's immune to all spells, all status effects, and weapons below +3. The whole fight is reduced to melee weapons and healing, putting caster-heavy and ranged-heavy parties at a severe disadvantage for no reason.
Permanent immunities are a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty.
Belhifet has the most comprehensive set of immunities I've ever seen in any game, ever. He's even immune to all forms of stat drain, even though Mind Flayer form and Archer Called Shot STR drain couldn't bypass his weapon immunities to begin with. He's even immune to opcode 241, the charm variant that only appears in Control Undead and wouldn't work on him anyway.
He has more immunities than the player has weapons.
The devs should at least allow things like Bigby's fist to damage him imo. No one should be able to resist some good old fashioned fisting.
A triple elemental summoning Spell Trigger would buy you some time, but Belhifet and his cronies will cut through all three of them within a few rounds, and summoning more critters would not be enough.
Belhifet also has very low AC, so a caster-heavy party would struggle to land hits on him, even if they did use buffs to increase their APR and damage.
I've seen an IWD:EE speedrun where the player used Black Blade of Disaster and multiple Time Stop spells to kill Belhifet. That's one reliable way to do it. But you wouldn't reach high enough levels to do that in a normal game with a full party; an average party would end up at level 16 or 17 by the end of IWD's main campaign.
But in vanilla, before EE, Arrows of Piercing struck as +0 magical weapons. Before Beamdog came along, Belhifet was immune to all missiles.
Absolutely terrifying.
Like, yeah, sure, I totally wanna have to go though the tedious process of
1. Having my cleric memorize Restoration/ run to the next temple.
2. Re-Pick all those bloody spells.
3. Rest.
Also, screw Aec'Letec and his ghoul curse.
It isn't that they are all that powerful, but the sum of their parts adds up to a lot of pain. The temple of Eldath level in Dragon's Eye is still a house of horrors:
Well buffed packs of mages? check.
really good CC spells like Feeblemind, Hold & Charm? Absolutely.
Good ranged attackers? check.
Good melee fighters? check.
Annoying Trolls? yep.
in semi-claustrophobic spaces that are hard to navigate and where you can easily get hung up on doors / narrow areas? What could go wrong?
--
Even with a party that "on paper" should have torn the Yuan-Ti a new one, they still forced a few re-loads & finally a trip back to Mother Egenia for a raise dead spell.
To put it differently, most of the fights in the game aren't that hard for a well equipped party, and with an odd reload or two can be cleared with everybody vertical at the end of the fight - except vs the Yuan-Ti where it seems like there is just enough chaos thrown into the mix where it is pretty easy to have something go horribly wrong - and potentially a complete group wipe.