Thanks for trying though. I wonder what the cause is? I'm loath to update my install of BG2 as I'm not keen on the changes, the initial EE's seem fine to me.
As it is, I've removed the "smarter vampires" component. But the break has put me off continuing with that game, especially as I was actually enjoying the bits of the "smarter vampires" that I saw.
Currently playing through SOD with newish character so will restart BG2 and will give SCS another go and RP that vampires all suffer from "feeblemind". Reckon it's due to bloodloss.
So um... I've finished EET BG1 with SCS, aTweaks and some other story/encounter mods and started with SoD But I noticed something funny... Has SCS changed anything at all from SoD? I thought it shouldn't, but I seem to have noticed that a lot of the NPCs are behaving differently...
@namarie: SCS does not change SoD AI. However, a lot of SoD's AI was based on SCS, which means SoD enemies have a lot of the same behaviors, like better targeting, diverse spell choices, diverse party composition, the ability to deal with invisible and well-buffed characters, more complex fights in general, and pre-cast defensive spells.
^ same happens for most of BG2:EE's new content. Mages are actually pretty good when compared to vanilla, and fighters/archers are as painful as SCS ones.
Well that's interesting. I was almost certain that the skeleton archers in SoD (insane) did not kite nearly as much as they do now. Shadowed Souls also seem to be spamming their life drain a lot more. Guess I was just using different tactics back then.
It's SoD AI if enemies: 1) Use Fireballs/Potions of Explosion 2) Return to their original location. This check is not ideal, as some either use home-in-on-player script (e.g. starting dungeon or random wilderness groups) or have this feature turned off 3) Don't prebuff on Easy, half buff on Normal, and maximize that on Core+
Well it looks like I'm going to have to get a lot more "creative" with this current run with SCS. Weird happenings all round.
The " guarded compound" in the temple district kept me up all last night as the crashes and general mayhem of enemies refusing to die certainly reignited my interest in playing. Managed in the end, everything dead and CF safely procured (that was the aim, I actually have played my charname to get that katana).
Then today in the planer prison, the big boss turned up just past the entrance so had to kill him before venturing further, and the thrall boss t'nari petrified himself on the trap leading to the cells. Now that was a nice surprise, that fight with the elementals is one of the harder ones. He still had the "orb" though but by that point, there wasn't a thrall left to release anyway.
In conclusion I would say the install at my end is completely messed up and eventually I reckon we will come to a point of no continuing. Until then, I'm enjoying the randomness
Just wanted to update my progress here and thank all those who gave pointers to trying SCS.
Have finished the run now. Ended up playing on "insane" because paranoia about how hard it would be pushed me to get the party very OP. Overall it's been a blast but perhaps not all of that is down to SCS, more like SCS messing up things (not blaming anything, it's my install skills, or lack of, at fault I reckon).
Am starting another run, slightly less driven because it did feel at one point the fights were either trivial or impossible, thinking Sendai and Ust Nathar. Balthazar's monks went on strike, lazy buggers wouldn't attack so that was a bit of a walkover (though the ones outside in town were psycho).
The best bit? The dragon fights, especially Abizagals Lair. Walking over these huge corpses and none of them had even got a hit on target was most satisfying.
So I recently re-installed SCS and just blindly installed everything on maximum. The mage prebuffing turned out to be quite fun. And I'm enjoying the further improved baddies.
But the component "Party's items are taken in spellhold" is pretty bad though. Brings a lot of tedium back to the game, even if it doesn't increase the difficulty too much.
I did that component for my first no-reload run. It wasn't as bad for me because I had a caster-heavy party that didn't need items so much, but even then it was pretty hectic to face Irenicus without my normal items.
When you think about it, though, that's exactly how we've always started out in Chateau Irenicus. And unlike Spellhold, you never get any of that stuff back.
Yeah, opinion time indeed !! A little late to the party I guess, but here goes...
My personal take on SCS is, while it makes the game significantly harder compared to vanilla, it's still not THAT hard. By that, I mean that if you come across a fight with which you have difficulty, you will come out on top after a few reloads where you tweak your setup to adapt. I played hard mods in the past that are way harsher with the number of reload you need to "test things out". The first time I played SCS through, there were a fair number of side quest where I didn't need to reload at all.
The main quality of SCS is, as stated in the readme, it mostly plays fair. The level of refinements that were put in this mod is just astonishing. With SCS, you play the game as it "should be", aka epic level mages don't attack with Magic Missile (I'm looking at you, Lavok). They defend themselves intelligently and, if you take the time to learn the magic system, they are neither impossible nor force you to use fixed strategy to win. (I'm talking about magic because, let's be honest, that's where SCS shines the most.)
If SCS was such a hard mod, no-reloading the trilogy would not be as feasible as it is. It's been done with every "archetypes" : from fighters to thieves, it's all possible. Don't get me wrong : no-reloading BG trilogy with SCS is indeed hard as balls (I never managed to do it, not even close to be honest), but it's possible.
I usually jack up SCS to the max because I enjoy a nice challenge. Nope, for me, even those pesky vampires and spirit trolls are not such a pain (ok, vampires stat drain is a little bit cheap, because you can't defend against it, but, it's nothing you can't overcome). Actually, my most recent setup with SCS, I went a little overboard : it includes Ascension, Item Revisions, Spell Revisions (with those heavy negative penalties to saving throws), ATweaks demons with gating, etc... A successful no-reload is not on the horizon yet I guess...
However, SCS alone with a moderately hard setup is nothing to be afraid of. You won't be unable to finish it if you put a little time in learning the basic mechanics. Then, you go past a certain point where you just can't play without it.
No-reloads are even possible in Improved Anvil, where having to reload over 10 times for normal battles is supposed to be normal. Saros Shadowfollower managed to do it once.
Well, logically, if it's possible to finish the game, you can no-reload it. However, it doesn't mean it's gonna be easy... Logically, we also have a chance at winning the lottery...
Improved Anvil is a good comparison : even if I haven't try it, from what I've heard and seen, it's supposed to be real crazy hard. It definitively does not play fair. SCS is not based around that type of difficulty, though.
Im finally ready for my first SCS playthrough and going through the forum on how to set up as wondering if I should go with BWS or install BP ascension then individual mods then SCS last? Im interested in putting as many encounter mods that are compatible along with some others like UB/BG NPC banter and few more from the BGEE compatible list...Also really dont want a buggy/crash game as you mentioned @Arctodus and unsure on SR/IR with SCS but seems like its a must... Any advice
@brunardo I don't use BWP because I'm on a Mac. I gotta install all these things manually. Can't really help you there.
If you want IR/SR, look for Revised SCS : it's a SCS version specifically modified to take SR modifications into account.
By the way, my install is not buggy. I went overboard on difficulty, not with the number of mods. If you want to try Revisions mods, I suggest to go light on other types. I went with Ascension, a few NPCs, Divine Remix (only for 4-5 cleric kits, because Viconia has to be a Nightcloak of Shar !), then Tweak Anthology, Rogue Rebalance, IR/SR, SCS, ATweaks and a few UI tweaks. That's it. I don't install expansion mod when I try this setup - well, I don't ever use quest expansions, because, from my limited experience, they tend to not mesh really well with the original game. Plus, If you don't want a bloated game install, don't go overboard with the number of types of mods you install.
I love how it turns common enemies into something smart and challenging (specially the bandit camp!), but I really hate the way this mod cheats sometimes (automatic buffs, casters not being interrupted when damaged, insta-casts).
Very annoying, but a must for someone who finished this game thousands of times.
I love how it turns common enemies into something smart and challenging (specially the bandit camp!), but I really hate the way this mod cheats sometimes (automatic buffs, casters not being interrupted when damaged, insta-casts).
Very annoying, but a must for someone who finished this game thousands of times.
Automatic buffs are an optional component. The thing is, it "simulates" buff routines. SCS doesn't use uninterruptible spellcasting (other than sequencer/conitngecy type spells). There are exceptions (demons, dragons, beholders, Planetars and similar) since their magic is considered "innate ability", iirc even vanilla game dragon's spells cannot be interrupted. Some creatures have bonuses to casting speed but I don't think SCS alters that - Ascension does, so if you install both that's what you get. Believe it or not, it's easier to disrupt a SCS-mage casting than vanilla game mage due to the fact that the latter often use forced casting, which is not interruptible and is not affected by spell failure effects like hit from wizard slayer. All things given, SCS is actually more fair than vanilla game.
Improved Anvil is a good comparison : even if I haven't try it, from what I've heard and seen, it's supposed to be real crazy hard. It definitively does not play fair. SCS is not based around that type of difficulty, though.
In it's ruleset, Anvil plays as fair as it gets. Sure, there are enemies which have very powerful abilities which you don't (and can't) get, for the most of the game they outlevel you, and some have apsurd regeneration abilities which coupled with their resistances make killing them a long and tedious process. I like that. I like that the dragon I meet can do something my party can't. I like fighting a battle which can't be won with ADHW spamming. The feeling of sucess you get from beating what you once tought to be an "impossible" battle in Anvil is incredibly good. It's not per everyone's liking, but it's a virtually bug-free experience with a lot of added content. To have a mod of this scope with no bugs is something pretty unheard of in BG modding. Every few years, I get in the mood for an Anvil run and end up enjoying it. Imo, the biggest drawback of Anvil is that it's pretty repetitive (SCS randomizes a lot of stuff concerning spells, Anvil is "set", example - Kaol will always use the same spells, have same triggers/coningency etc.) and there aren't much protagonist options (only two viable).
And I was able to slide the difficulty level all the way to the left............
Mirror image, I laugh at your mirror image, lol.
The reality for me is that I tried that fight at far too low a level, should have left and come back but I was on a schedule. Which is not a fault with design, rather with player impatience. Next playthrough I will know better.
Actually with the changes that are made to anvil lately, a lot more classes and kits became viable and interesting to play. It is just that the absurdity of new quests for some kits (vagrant, necromancer) makes them the ones recommended due to content.
I always like the chess games that anvil gives you and the frustration of unknown creature abilities that foil your plans.
Where anvil uses its own rules, I find scs to be more fair on the vanilla bg world if you want to up the enemy AI. You do not need the fancy gear or spells to play scs well while for anvil, if you neglect the gear and fancy new spells, you are toast.
Comments
Thanks for trying though.
I wonder what the cause is?
I'm loath to update my install of BG2 as I'm not keen on the changes, the initial EE's seem fine to me.
As it is, I've removed the "smarter vampires" component.
But the break has put me off continuing with that game, especially as I was actually enjoying the bits of the "smarter vampires" that I saw.
Currently playing through SOD with newish character so will restart BG2 and will give SCS another go and RP that vampires all suffer from "feeblemind".
Reckon it's due to bloodloss.
I've finished EET BG1 with SCS, aTweaks and some other story/encounter mods and started with SoD
But I noticed something funny... Has SCS changed anything at all from SoD? I thought it shouldn't, but I seem to have noticed that a lot of the NPCs are behaving differently...
1) Use Fireballs/Potions of Explosion
2) Return to their original location. This check is not ideal, as some either use home-in-on-player script (e.g. starting dungeon or random wilderness groups) or have this feature turned off
3) Don't prebuff on Easy, half buff on Normal, and maximize that on Core+
"That's creative thinking!"
Well it looks like I'm going to have to get a lot more "creative" with this current run with SCS.
Weird happenings all round.
The " guarded compound" in the temple district kept me up all last night as the crashes and general mayhem of enemies refusing to die certainly reignited my interest in playing. Managed in the end, everything dead and CF safely procured (that was the aim, I actually have played my charname to get that katana).
Then today in the planer prison, the big boss turned up just past the entrance so had to kill him before venturing further, and the thrall boss t'nari petrified himself on the trap leading to the cells.
Now that was a nice surprise, that fight with the elementals is one of the harder ones. He still had the "orb" though but by that point, there wasn't a thrall left to release anyway.
In conclusion I would say the install at my end is completely messed up and eventually I reckon we will come to a point of no continuing.
Until then, I'm enjoying the randomness
Have finished the run now.
Ended up playing on "insane" because paranoia about how hard it would be pushed me to get the party very OP.
Overall it's been a blast but perhaps not all of that is down to SCS, more like SCS messing up things (not blaming anything, it's my install skills, or lack of, at fault I reckon).
Am starting another run, slightly less driven because it did feel at one point the fights were either trivial or impossible, thinking Sendai and Ust Nathar.
Balthazar's monks went on strike, lazy buggers wouldn't attack so that was a bit of a walkover (though the ones outside in town were psycho).
The best bit?
The dragon fights, especially Abizagals Lair.
Walking over these huge corpses and none of them had even got a hit on target was most satisfying.
So I recently re-installed SCS and just blindly installed everything on maximum. The mage prebuffing turned out to be quite fun. And I'm enjoying the further improved baddies.
But the component "Party's items are taken in spellhold" is pretty bad though. Brings a lot of tedium back to the game, even if it doesn't increase the difficulty too much.
Would not recommend.
Realism =/= fun. Not always.
When you think about it, though, that's exactly how we've always started out in Chateau Irenicus. And unlike Spellhold, you never get any of that stuff back.
My personal take on SCS is, while it makes the game significantly harder compared to vanilla, it's still not THAT hard. By that, I mean that if you come across a fight with which you have difficulty, you will come out on top after a few reloads where you tweak your setup to adapt. I played hard mods in the past that are way harsher with the number of reload you need to "test things out". The first time I played SCS through, there were a fair number of side quest where I didn't need to reload at all.
The main quality of SCS is, as stated in the readme, it mostly plays fair. The level of refinements that were put in this mod is just astonishing. With SCS, you play the game as it "should be", aka epic level mages don't attack with Magic Missile (I'm looking at you, Lavok). They defend themselves intelligently and, if you take the time to learn the magic system, they are neither impossible nor force you to use fixed strategy to win. (I'm talking about magic because, let's be honest, that's where SCS shines the most.)
If SCS was such a hard mod, no-reloading the trilogy would not be as feasible as it is. It's been done with every "archetypes" : from fighters to thieves, it's all possible. Don't get me wrong : no-reloading BG trilogy with SCS is indeed hard as balls (I never managed to do it, not even close to be honest), but it's possible.
I usually jack up SCS to the max because I enjoy a nice challenge. Nope, for me, even those pesky vampires and spirit trolls are not such a pain (ok, vampires stat drain is a little bit cheap, because you can't defend against it, but, it's nothing you can't overcome). Actually, my most recent setup with SCS, I went a little overboard : it includes Ascension, Item Revisions, Spell Revisions (with those heavy negative penalties to saving throws), ATweaks demons with gating, etc... A successful no-reload is not on the horizon yet I guess...
However, SCS alone with a moderately hard setup is nothing to be afraid of. You won't be unable to finish it if you put a little time in learning the basic mechanics. Then, you go past a certain point where you just can't play without it.
Improved Anvil is a good comparison : even if I haven't try it, from what I've heard and seen, it's supposed to be real crazy hard. It definitively does not play fair. SCS is not based around that type of difficulty, though.
Any advice
If you want IR/SR, look for Revised SCS : it's a SCS version specifically modified to take SR modifications into account.
By the way, my install is not buggy. I went overboard on difficulty, not with the number of mods. If you want to try Revisions mods, I suggest to go light on other types. I went with Ascension, a few NPCs, Divine Remix (only for 4-5 cleric kits, because Viconia has to be a Nightcloak of Shar !), then Tweak Anthology, Rogue Rebalance, IR/SR, SCS, ATweaks and a few UI tweaks. That's it. I don't install expansion mod when I try this setup - well, I don't ever use quest expansions, because, from my limited experience, they tend to not mesh really well with the original game. Plus, If you don't want a bloated game install, don't go overboard with the number of types of mods you install.
I love how it turns common enemies into something smart and challenging (specially the bandit camp!), but I really hate the way this mod cheats sometimes (automatic buffs, casters not being interrupted when damaged, insta-casts).
Very annoying, but a must for someone who finished this game thousands of times.
There are exceptions (demons, dragons, beholders, Planetars and similar) since their magic is considered "innate ability", iirc even vanilla game dragon's spells cannot be interrupted.
Some creatures have bonuses to casting speed but I don't think SCS alters that - Ascension does, so if you install both that's what you get.
Believe it or not, it's easier to disrupt a SCS-mage casting than vanilla game mage due to the fact that the latter often use forced casting, which is not interruptible and is not affected by spell failure effects like hit from wizard slayer. All things given, SCS is actually more fair than vanilla game.
missile damage from my hamadryads
bleeding damage from Spike Growth
poison damage from Poison
cold damage from Ice Storm
fire damage from Flame Strike
And was able to cast Mirror Image anyway.
I like that. I like that the dragon I meet can do something my party can't. I like fighting a battle which can't be won with ADHW spamming. The feeling of sucess you get from beating what you once tought to be an "impossible" battle in Anvil is incredibly good.
It's not per everyone's liking, but it's a virtually bug-free experience with a lot of added content. To have a mod of this scope with no bugs is something pretty unheard of in BG modding.
Every few years, I get in the mood for an Anvil run and end up enjoying it. Imo, the biggest drawback of Anvil is that it's pretty repetitive (SCS randomizes a lot of stuff concerning spells, Anvil is "set", example - Kaol will always use the same spells, have same triggers/coningency etc.) and there aren't much protagonist options (only two viable).
And I was able to slide the difficulty level all the way to the left............
Mirror image, I laugh at your mirror image, lol.
The reality for me is that I tried that fight at far too low a level, should have left and come back but I was on a schedule. Which is not a fault with design, rather with player impatience. Next playthrough I will know better.
It is just that the absurdity of new quests for some kits (vagrant, necromancer) makes them the ones recommended due to content.
I always like the chess games that anvil gives you and the frustration of unknown creature abilities that foil your plans.
Where anvil uses its own rules, I find scs to be more fair on the vanilla bg world if you want to up the enemy AI. You do not need the fancy gear or spells to play scs well while for anvil, if you neglect the gear and fancy new spells, you are toast.
Mirror Image was just one example. He casted Invisibility, Shadow Door, Domination, etc... Everything under poison/cold/bleed damage.