When I wanted to do an armored battlemage and neglected speed I found all the manual traveling to destinations tedious and hurt my experience of the game. Now that I fly around like a crazed skooma addict with athletics and speed cranked up I find it much more sufferable.
Morrowind is the last time Bethesda set out to make an actual, complex, old-school RPG. On top of that, they finally had moved past the ambitious, but basically tedious nature of the procedural generation of Arena and (especially) Daggerfall. When you factor in the enchanting system and spell-creator, there really isn't anything you CAN'T do in Morrowind (especially once you patch it to fix the things that are broken). Beyond that, it's a totally alien-world. Vvardenfell is a place you have to actually learn about, or you aren't really going to have a clue what is going on. Oblivion is fine. It plays good, it's guild quests are probably the best in the series, the expansion is extremely high-quality. But the base game is also pretty paint-by-the-numbers generic fantasy 101. They are both better than Skyrim, though Skyrim is still a perfectly good game for what it is.
Like i said before, Oblivion suffers from being the start of the Zenimax era, the dumbing down era, and the moment when Todd Howard became the King of Lies (not to be confused with the Demon of Lies from Divine Divinity). Sure they may have saved Fallout from obscurity, but the lore inconsistencies and neutered roleplaying mechanics and all around silly writing (Little Lamplight and stuff) earned them the hatred of oldschool Fallout fans and Western RPG fans.
I'm going to ignore everything else you said, but I want to point out that what the old school Fallout fans think and feel are pretty irrelevant and should be irrelevant. They're not going to be satisfied by anything and should be left to reliving the past as they prefer.
As far as the Elder Scrolls being good or bad, the financial success of Skyrim (and its many many many relaunches) seems to indicate that Bethesda is tapping into something and they're going to continue tapping into that because it is profitable and nets them overall positive reviews. Morrowind is a great game, but its time is not going to come around again at last.
Morrowind is the last time Bethesda set out to make an actual, complex, old-school RPG. On top of that, they finally had moved past the ambitious, but basically tedious nature of the procedural generation of Arena and (especially) Daggerfall. When you factor in the enchanting system and spell-creator, there really isn't anything you CAN'T do in Morrowind (especially once you patch it to fix the things that are broken). Beyond that, it's a totally alien-world. Vvardenfell is a place you have to actually learn about, or you aren't really going to have a clue what is going on. Oblivion is fine. It plays good, it's guild quests are probably the best in the series, the expansion is extremely high-quality. But the base game is also pretty paint-by-the-numbers generic fantasy 101. They are both better than Skyrim, though Skyrim is still a perfectly good game for what it is.
Like i said before, Oblivion suffers from being the start of the Zenimax era, the dumbing down era, and the moment when Todd Howard became the King of Lies (not to be confused with the Demon of Lies from Divine Divinity). Sure they may have saved Fallout from obscurity, but the lore inconsistencies and neutered roleplaying mechanics and all around silly writing (Little Lamplight and stuff) earned them the hatred of oldschool Fallout fans and Western RPG fans.
I'm going to ignore everything else you said, but I want to point out that what the old school Fallout fans think and feel are pretty irrelevant and should be irrelevant. They're not going to be satisfied by anything and should be left to reliving the past as they prefer.
Can't agree more with you. But it's Easy to understand where they come from, if some AAA publisher buys the Baldur's Gate IP and makes a game with big inconsistencies with the Forgotten Realms lore and diminished roleplaying mechanics, i would call shenanigans.
As far as the Elder Scrolls being good or bad, the financial success of Skyrim (and its many many many relaunches) seems to indicate that Bethesda is tapping into something and they're going to continue tapping into that because it is profitable and nets them overall positive reviews. Morrowind is a great game, but its time is not going to come around again at last.
Its still pretty sad seeing TES and Fallout, which are supposed to be RPGs, becoming more like Call of Duty with each new game.
Bioware RPGs are probably not going to be a thing anymore. If Anthem fails then Bioware will go under and die. If Anthem succeeds then we can expect them to become the Anthem company and stop making RPGs. @_@
Bioware RPGs are probably not going to be a thing anymore. If Anthem fails then Bioware will go under and die. If Anthem succeeds then we can expect them to become the Anthem company and stop making RPGs. @_@
One of my worst fears is Western RPGs becoming deader than disco.
I think they will stay alive thanks to Beamdog, Obsidian, and Larian Studios. Bethesda and Bioware have shown little interest in keeping RPGs about roleplaying and would rather do power fantasies and cinematic stories. I should mention I am very salty about these two companies due to their recent works >_>
I'm going to ignore everything else you said, but I want to point out that what the old school Fallout fans think and feel are pretty irrelevant and should be irrelevant. They're not going to be satisfied by anything and should be left to reliving the past as they prefer.
Fallout: New Vegas. That game prove that you can still make good Fallout game using Bethesda's work as a base. Argument invalid - those old school fans can be satisfied if any effort was made towards that end.
As far as the Elder Scrolls being good or bad, the financial success of Skyrim (and its many many many relaunches) seems to indicate that Bethesda is tapping into something and they're going to continue tapping into that because it is profitable and nets them overall positive reviews.
I think they will stay alive thanks to Beamdog, Obsidian, and Larian Studios. Bethesda and Bioware have shown little interest in keeping RPGs about roleplaying and would rather do power fantasies and cinematic stories. I should mention I am very salty about these two companies due to their recent works >_>
Yes, but Obs, Larian and Beamdog games aren't very financially successful.
Sorry, the old school fans spend all of their time whining about Fallout 3 and 4. I don't care what they think, and neither should anyone else. They want to live in the past and have an endless stream of games that emulate Fallout 1 and 2, and they won't be satisfied by anything less. One game that they like doesn't make my argument invalid, it just means they complain even louder when the next installment doesn't meet their expectations.
Let them polish their glittering gems of hatred, and let the rest of the game industry move on to other things.
What I mean is that a game like New Vegas shouldn't be made because old school fans demand it. They represent a miniscule demographic that is primarily defined by their negativity and bitterness. That doesn't mean games like New Vegas shouldn't be made, just that it shouldn't be made to appease whiners.
In-game directions in Morrowind are sometimes flat-out inaccurate. Combine that with the tall mountains and it's very easy to get lost, which can get frustrating. Better to consult the UESPWiki than rely on in-game directions.
Getting around Morrowind is very slow if you don't know where you're going. The Mages Guild and Silt Striders are the best options for reaching most places; boats are occasionally the only route to coastal places. The Propylon Indexes are hard to find and very complicated.
Jump spells like Tinur's Hoptoad are really great for moving around quickly, and a single point of Slowfall in any spell will negate all fall damage. As for Speed, Intelligence stacking with Alchemy can give you some wild potions, but a more user-friendly way to handle things is to track down the Boots of Blinding Speed. They grant +200 Speed (or maybe +100) and 100 Blind, but you can reduce or negate the Blind effect using Resist Magic. You only need the Resist Magic effect to be active when you first equip the boots; after that, you can let the Resist Magic effect expire and the Blind effect will remain as it is. Adjusting the screen brightness can negate the effects of partial blindness.
Levitate scales well with speed. Even a weak Levitate spell combined with the Boots of Blinding Speed will give you a solid three-dimensional movement rate, which can really cut down on travel times.
The point is, if there is something they are satisfied by, at all, then your argument is in fact invalid. They can be satisfied. And sure, games like New Vegas shouldn't be made to shut up people's whinning, games like those should STILL be made. Doesn't matter if your goal isn't to please whinners, by making a good game you'll naturally decrease the negativity. It both supplies a niche audience with a product and is shutting people up. Win-win scenario.
And if the next installemnt won't live up to expectations, then backlash is understandable, from old fans and regular customers alike. Bethesda is target of a critique just like every other game publisher. They're unfortunately also good with their marketing, and unsurprisingly it results in good sales. Even if actual products are lacking in quality or polish.
I don't even know why I'm worked up over that. Screw that company.
I think they will stay alive thanks to Beamdog, Obsidian, and Larian Studios. Bethesda and Bioware have shown little interest in keeping RPGs about roleplaying and would rather do power fantasies and cinematic stories. I should mention I am very salty about these two companies due to their recent works >_>
But on the other hand, i like the idea of a ''RPG'' with mecha.
The point is, if there is something they are satisfied by, at all, then your argument is in fact invalid. They can be satisfied. And sure, games like New Vegas shouldn't be made to shut up people's whinning, games like those should STILL be made. Doesn't matter if your goal isn't to please whinners, by making a good game you'll naturally decrease the negativity. It both supplies a niche audience with a product and is shutting people up. Win-win scenario.
And if the next installemnt won't live up to expectations, then backlash is understandable, from old fans and regular customers alike. Bethesda is target of a critique just like every other game publisher. They're unfortunately also good with their marketing, and unsurprisingly it results in good sales. Even if actual products are lacking in quality or polish.
I don't even know why I'm worked up over that. Screw that company.
The thing about Fallout 3 and 4 is that regular customers loved them. Just like they loved Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm not saying that Bethesda is beyond critique or that because their games are popular that they are good. What I am saying is that these so-called fans are so invested in hating Bethesda that the only reason they liked New Vegas had nothing to do with its quality (its metacritic score is roughly equivalent to Fallout 4 and only a bit lower than Fallout 3), but because Bethesda didn't make it. I do not believe they are actually satisfied by it, they just see it as a black mark against those they hate.
Like game publishers should do better and Bethesda really needs to do better, and their recent RPGs have been very flawed products in a lot of ways. I just don't think appealing to a fractious and bitter minority is the path to success.
You know, I've never played Fallout 1 or 2. I only was properly introduced to WRPGs in 2013 when I played BG:EE since I really, really liked PnP D&D. Then I've gone through and played many classics since. I haven't played NV either but I have played Fallout 3. I do have extensive knowledge on the other games due to videos and such but they are still on my to-do list. I was thinking of doing NV first with my only other fallout game experience being 3 and then going back to 1 and 2 at a later point.
I've played Arena, Morrowind, and Skyrim enough to have opinions on them but then am also quite unfamiliar with Daggerfall and Oblivion.
While I can kinda agree about Fallout 3 (especially since it still CAN be called Fallout game, and back then it geniuely seemed like Bathesda just had no idea what to do with that licence), Fallout 4? Please. If you reference Metacritic and want to tell me people love it, then you should refer to user score (5.4/10) rather than score by critics. And while 0s and 1s aren't fair review scores, so aren't 9s and 10s. Based on that, you cannot tell me people loved it and expect me to not roll my eyes.
Objectively speaking, Fallout 4 failed in many areas but sold well, due to marketing. It improved in graphic and shooting mechanics and either not improved or straightforward failed at everything else.
Also I believe there was a way to make Fallout successful without pissing off older fans. It's called "understanding and respecting the source material". This is something Bathesda failed to do, or more likely never cared about.
Fallout 4 is better than Fallout 3. I think the first game is entirely overrated. As far as that kind of meaningful choice gameplay goes, give me Vampire: The Masquerade-Bloodlines any day of the week. 2 is better because they improved the UI and mechanics a bit, but they are both highly overrated for the praise they get. The Infinity Engine was a vastly superior system for that golden-age of isometric CRPGs.
As for the Elder Scrolls....the DOS-era titles are ambitious for the time, but I never get very far when I play them. I doubt most people ever even leave the first dungeon. Arena is infamous for this, but at least you can make some sort of progress in Arena. Daggerfall is so huge, with so many options, that it almost defeats it's own purpose. It's a fantasy-life simulator that existed in a world before MMOs. As a game, it sort of sucks. It's one of the buggiest major titles ever released. It's control scheme is abysmal. It has a overall landmass the size of Great Britain, yet 98% of it is in service to nothing. Casting spells feels horrible. The best thing Bethesda did was (despite it still being massive) was limit the scope of Morrowind so the project didn't get completely out of hand like Daggerfall did.
Fallout 4 is better than Fallout 3. I think the first game is entirely overrated. As far as that kind of meaningful choice gameplay goes, give me Vampire: The Masquerade-Bloodlines any day of the week. 2 is better because they improved the UI and mechanics a bit, but they are both highly overrated for the praise they get. The Infinity Engine was a vastly superior system for that golden-age of isometric CRPGs.
As for the Elder Scrolls....the DOS-era titles are ambitious for the time, but I never get very far when I play them. I doubt most people ever even leave the first dungeon. Arena is infamous for this, but at least you can make some sort of progress in Arena. Daggerfall is so huge, with so many options, that it almost defeats it's own purpose. It's a fantasy-life simulator that existed in a world before MMOs. As a game, it sort of sucks. It's one of the buggiest major titles ever released. It's control scheme is abysmal. It has a overall landmass the size of Great Britain, yet 98% of it is in service to nothing. Casting spells feels horrible. The best thing Bethesda did was (despite it still being massive) was limit the scope of Morrowind so the project didn't get completely out of hand like Daggerfall did.
So basically you are saying Morrowind and Oblivion are the only good TES games? I disagree. Sure, Arena and Daggerfall graphics aged like crap and Daggerfall didn't need to have a huge ass world and confusing dungeons, but i find both games more engaging and less shallow than Skyrim. Also, Custom Class FTW. I wish there was a polished Enhanced Edition of Arena and Daggerfall that removes the more annoying aspects of each game.
I breezed through Arena with a spellsword and had a good time of it. I couldnt complete Daggerfall because of all the broken dungeons, broken quests, broken everything. I still find it enjoyable to play however, when it actually works.
Comments
Bioware RPGs are probably not going to be a thing anymore. If Anthem fails then Bioware will go under and die. If Anthem succeeds then we can expect them to become the Anthem company and stop making RPGs. @_@
That effort won't be made, however. As you said: What you said is true, it is also very sad.
Let them polish their glittering gems of hatred, and let the rest of the game industry move on to other things.
Getting around Morrowind is very slow if you don't know where you're going. The Mages Guild and Silt Striders are the best options for reaching most places; boats are occasionally the only route to coastal places. The Propylon Indexes are hard to find and very complicated.
Jump spells like Tinur's Hoptoad are really great for moving around quickly, and a single point of Slowfall in any spell will negate all fall damage. As for Speed, Intelligence stacking with Alchemy can give you some wild potions, but a more user-friendly way to handle things is to track down the Boots of Blinding Speed. They grant +200 Speed (or maybe +100) and 100 Blind, but you can reduce or negate the Blind effect using Resist Magic. You only need the Resist Magic effect to be active when you first equip the boots; after that, you can let the Resist Magic effect expire and the Blind effect will remain as it is. Adjusting the screen brightness can negate the effects of partial blindness.
Levitate scales well with speed. Even a weak Levitate spell combined with the Boots of Blinding Speed will give you a solid three-dimensional movement rate, which can really cut down on travel times.
And if the next installemnt won't live up to expectations, then backlash is understandable, from old fans and regular customers alike. Bethesda is target of a critique just like every other game publisher. They're unfortunately also good with their marketing, and unsurprisingly it results in good sales. Even if actual products are lacking in quality or polish.
I don't even know why I'm worked up over that. Screw that company.
I've played Arena, Morrowind, and Skyrim enough to have opinions on them but then am also quite unfamiliar with Daggerfall and Oblivion.
Objectively speaking, Fallout 4 failed in many areas but sold well, due to marketing. It improved in graphic and shooting mechanics and either not improved or straightforward failed at everything else.
Also I believe there was a way to make Fallout successful without pissing off older fans. It's called "understanding and respecting the source material". This is something Bathesda failed to do, or more likely never cared about.
As for the Elder Scrolls....the DOS-era titles are ambitious for the time, but I never get very far when I play them. I doubt most people ever even leave the first dungeon. Arena is infamous for this, but at least you can make some sort of progress in Arena. Daggerfall is so huge, with so many options, that it almost defeats it's own purpose. It's a fantasy-life simulator that existed in a world before MMOs. As a game, it sort of sucks. It's one of the buggiest major titles ever released. It's control scheme is abysmal. It has a overall landmass the size of Great Britain, yet 98% of it is in service to nothing. Casting spells feels horrible. The best thing Bethesda did was (despite it still being massive) was limit the scope of Morrowind so the project didn't get completely out of hand like Daggerfall did.
@Vallmyr