Ohh, the number of times I skipped a good roll by accident. I had one back in the day, where I believe it was 4 17's and 2 18's. And I got so jumpy, that I tapped the key.
That's why it's important to resist the temptation of rolling too fast. You may have one shot of the best roll possible in your life and if you miss it, you're done. No seconds gained by clicking faster are worth a huge missed opportunity.
There's an unfixed windows-related bug affecting certain class-race combinations that may prevent you from rolling very high stats. For instance, the upper limit for human fighters is 100 (total roll). Keep that in mind if you use the windows version of the game to create your characters. I don't know if all characters are affected though...
Atm. I am trying to autoroll another 106 superhero (elf sorcerer) but it's still quite hard to achieve. According to the description of the autoroller, the script can generate 15000 rolls per second or 60000 per second (155 billion per month) if you use 4 instances of Baldur's Gate in parallel (like i do). The chance to get a 106 for elf sorcerers is better than 300 billion to 1. Thus, creating a 105+ roll is already very feasible and should become easier as CPUs get more cores. I guess in the long run we will see a lot of 'valid' 108 rolls.^^
The purpose of rolling for several hours is to feel you've earned your good stats. If you're going to use an autoroll then you might as well just cheat and use CTRL + 8 to get the maximum stats.
@Dordledum, there is an autoroller in EEUITweaks that works fine in the Android environment. You prob wont be able to have multiple BGs running through.
@Simulacre Autorolling is still a random process even if you run hundreds of scripts simultaneously whereas pressing CTRL + 8 is completely deterministic and unrelated to the game's internal rolling mechanics. And that's why CTRL + 8 is a contemptible cheat and its users are choatic evil villains.
@Simulacre Autorolling is still a random process even if you run hundreds of scripts simultaneously whereas pressing CTRL + 8 is completely deterministic and unrelated to the game's internal rolling mechanics. And that's why CTRL + 8 is a contemptible cheat and its users are choatic evil villains.
Sometimes the world is really simple.
I don't think the difference between being completely deterministic and partially deterministic with autorolling systems matters. What matters is whether you suffer to deserve your points or not. If you're skipping the tedious process with autorolling then you might as well just get the the results you want directly with CTRL + 8. In both cases you fail to take the first roll that was given to you during the character creation process, in both cases you fail to earn your mighty Charmane with the chore/labor that is rolling over and over manually... so just go for the most efficient method : CTRL + 8 !
Nah you cannot consistently define what legit rolls are relying on these subjective/emotion-based terms (I mean 'deserve', 'suffer', 'tediousness' ...). The absence of negative feelings or suffering doesn't make a roll less legit and there's no one who can legitimately decide what I deserve.^^
@Dordledum, there is an autoroller in EEUITweaks that works fine in the Android environment. You prob wont be able to have multiple BGs running through.
Gus
Nice to know it exists, thank you.
Somehow there is a charm to manual rolling, the hours spent don't feel wasted to me.
Nah you cannot consistently define what legit rolls are relying on these subjective/emotion-based terms (I mean 'deserve', 'suffer', 'tediousness' ...). The absence of negative feelings or suffering doesn't make a roll less legit and there's no one who can legitimately decide what I deserve.^^
Huh ?
I'm not trying to decide for you what's best or to impose on you my vision of what's legit and what's not, I'm merely expressing an opinion and my incomprehension regarding the reasons for using autorolling. If you pay attention, I did start my post with "I don't THINK".
Threads are for sharing and expressing points of view, there's no need to feel attacked if someone disagrees with you. You're free to do whatever you want and it's totally fine by me.
That said, most people consider manual rolling is best because it alleviates the sensation that you're cheesing the game. Sure, in the end you'll get better stats you would have had if you simply went along with whatever stats the game suggested first but it wasn't cheap because you worked for it.
It's the same logic that applies with incredibly powerful BUT difficult to get items. Let's take Carsomyr for instance : it's a very neat and powerful sword that is wildly accepted as legit because it's a tough one to get. It doesn't remove the fact that it renders most mages ineffective, gives you incredible magical resistance, not to mention that it's a +5 damaging weapon devastating against, well, pretty much anyone. Now, take the same sword and make it available for free in Candlekeep's Inn. What do you think is going to happen ?
People will feel dirty using it. The sense of accomplishment won't be there, and what's more defining for an RPG than adventuring and earning more and more power as you venture forth ?
So you see, manual rolling is a way for people to reconnect with that sense of accomplishment, it's a way to feel that pleasure you get for obtaining something that wasn't delivered on a silver platter.
Whether you use CTRL + 8 or autorolling, you simply make your life a lot easier and I fail to see where's the merit or the accomplishment - thus pleasure - in letting the computer do what you could have done yourself.
Now, if you have arguments to tell us why autorolling is legit and CTRL + 8 isn't, or why both are legit, then please, give them to us ! That's bound to be interesting.
I started a new character today and got a 99, although it was with an auto-roller. My first time trying one, left it on while I was gone for a few hours and came back to that.
As for the above argument I feel like auto-rolling is kinda more valid because the scores are still coming from within the game. It's just clicking the button and saving the highest score for me. It does not guarantee an all 18 roll nor will it not give exceptional strength to a class that can't have that (it does that, right? Last used that cheat back when BG2 was new.). The numbers are still rolling in the game and the only thing is I don't have to strain my eyes staring at a changing number. Now, I don't feel like that's completely legit, but I do feel like it's a lot more legit than ctrl-8 or save editor would be. To each their own tho.
Everything is legit, the only rule is to have fun with your game.
Pleasure and the feeling of accomplishment are 100% subjective, it's exactly like arguing that redistributing points shouldn't be allowed because you can technically roll 18 in the stats you wants, and thus min/maxing will "simply make your life a lot easier and I fail to see where's the merit or the accomplishment - thus pleasure", to quote @Simulacre
You could argue than min/maxing was a feature of the original game while auto-rollers came later, but I could response that in that case, we shouldn't use any items, spells or NPCs that come from any kind of mods, because they can/will make the game easier and thus diminish the merit, accomplishment or whatsoever. By that same logic I could say that doing Marl, Melicamp and Shoal encounters, or clearing the basilisk area with a Protection from Petrification green scroll, will ruin the feeling of accomplishment or pride in the game because they give so much experience points without any challenge whatsoever and they are delivered on a silver platter.
Everyone is bound to have an opinion on this one, mine is that auto-rollers are completely fine and that min/maxing isn't for example. I really like to play characters with high roll (95+) but with a random distribution because it fits the way I roleplay the game, as I think that the Bhaalspawn should have godlike stats and that weaknessses (like a 18 Wisdom but only 14 Con Fighter) make the game more interesting and logical. But that's only my take on the subject.
I created two different characters and rolled with EEKeeper (you can roll directly with it). Speaking of which, I'm now pretty sure that EEKeeper rolls characters very differently than the game itself, high rolls are far easier to get and it seems to ignore minimums at the same time, I got a few 5 or 6 Strenght while rolling for a Kensai which has a 9 minimum in Strenght. Maybe it is using the 4d6 drop lowest method?
Edit : See for yourself, create a human fighter, mage, thief or cleric, something with a 9 minimum in a characteristic and 3 for the others. See how hard it is to roll a 90+ in the game. Now create this character, save it and open EEKeeper to roll your stats. You should see plenty of 90+ rolls now. It's interesting.
I just discovered the Minimum Stats Cheat in the Tweaks Anthology and I don't think I will ever go back to regular rolling. It allows you to set minimum scores of between 6 and 15 for each of the six attributes so you get much higher scores than usual and it is really easy to get rolls in the mid-90s. I like it because you are still rolling manually but you can get the character you want in a few minutes.
Having wasted huge amounts of my life rolling characters this feels like a gift from the gods. Now when I roll Lady Tymora always smiles on me:
I just discovered the Minimum Stats Cheat in the Tweaks Anthology and I don't think I will ever go back to regular rolling. It allows you to set minimum scores of between 6 and 15 for each of the six attributes so you get much higher scores than usual and it is really easy to get rolls in the mid-90s. I like it because you are still rolling manually but you can get the character you want in a few minutes.
Having wasted huge amounts of my life rolling characters this feels like a gift from the gods. Now when I roll Lady Tymora always smiles on me:
Good for you, but as Rolling Maniac i will never use this. The prerogative for rolling, of couse in my opinion, is to get exceptional values against easy chances. Just a couple of weeks ago i rolled a new Cavalier and it took me one hour and half to get a 93 with 18/93 in strenght. I'm happy and proud of my character. Cheating that would be exactly like using ctrl+8. Always my opinion.
I'm wondering whether there is some behind the scenes thing about the fighter's percentile dice. I have read about and rolled myself far more 18/00 scores than would be normal.
I'm wondering whether there is some behind the scenes thing about the fighter's percentile dice. I have read about and rolled myself far more 18/00 scores than would be normal.
Any insights?
The problem is, we don't know what exactly is going on "under the hood". I've heard that the roller is using 4d6 drop 1, but we've never heard from any of the programmers if that's true or not.
When rolling a straight 3d6 + percentile dice, the odds of 18/00 is 1 in 21,600. When rolling 4d6 drop 1 + percentile, the chance is approximately 1 in 6,200. So just that change makes it more than 3 times more likely.
I've had a look at the BG2EE bytecode, and these steps are what the engine follows when rolling:
1. If the character's class has percentile strength, roll a 1d100 to calculate it, else use 0. 2. Roll a 3d6 for every character stat until said roll is within the valid value range. 3. If the total roll is lower than 75, start the whole process over again.
For my current gnome fighter/illusionist I rolled for a blink of an eye a 102 on the Nintendo Switch version of the game ... but I kept mindlessly smashing the button and then got a 75 on the next roll
I didn't get that high again and started the game with a 93. But this is still enough for what I want to achieve.
For my current gnome fighter/illusionist I rolled for a blink of an eye a 102 on the Nintendo Switch version of the game ... but I kept mindlessly smashing the button and then got a 75 on the next roll
Welcome to the world of rolling stats! Rolling past a gem because you're hitting the button too fast is something we've all done. I'm surprised no one's written a country song about it. I've overcome the habit by counting a rhythm as I roll, and clicking the button on alternate beats. It's the only way I can manage my speed.
Btw, rolling 102, especially with a character that isn't a paladin or ranger, is probably comparable to winning a minor lottery in terms of odds. I'm the luckiest guy I know in terms of rolls (I've posted screenshots on these forums) and I've never gotten over 100. I've been playing for about 20 years, and as weird as it sounds, I enjoy rolling stats and have spent hours doing it. So at least you got to see something remarkable, even if it was only a shooting star...
As you say, though, 93 is more than enough. I hope you enjoy your game!
@OrlonKronsteen
Thanks, I'm also rollin' since 20 years (almost 21 as I played BG on release) Good thing in the EE versions is that the total amount is shown and I don't have to calc myself. That makes it faster, but on the other hand increases the likeliness of mistakes like mine.
@Tommy123 If you've been playing for over 20 years it must be all the harder to lose that roll! I think I would have to call in sick for a couple days. When I read you were playing on Switch I assumed you were new to the series. Talk about preconceptions! In any case, I hope you enjoy the console version and that your 93 takes you far! I should really try a gnome F/I one of these days.
@OrlonKronsteen The console version is really good - the controls are fantastic, best BG experience I ever had. And fighter/illusionist is also really nice - shorty saves, specialist mage and general f/m cheese.
My starting stats and how I plan to expand them (not yet sure on my decision in the Hell Trials):
STR: 18/23 +1 Tome +1 Lum +2 Hell = 22
DEX: 18 +1 Tome +1 Lum -1 Dream = 19
CON: 18 +1 Tome +1 Lum +2 Hell = 22
INT: 16 +1 Tome +1 Lum +1 Deck = 19
WIS: 14 +3 Tome +1 Lum = 18
CHA: 9 +1 Tome +1 Lum = 11
Thats enough INT for uncapped spell scribing and enough WIS for the Wish spell.
I'm playing this as a Lawful Neutral solo character with the ferret familar for some pick pocket action. So far everything is good. You can loot everything with bashing and knock spell, can survive traps with protection spells and heal with regeneration from 20 CON by beelining for the CON tome and using Buckley's Buckler (later Draw upon Holy Might dream ability in Chapter 6/7).
Comments
Atm. I am trying to autoroll another 106 superhero (elf sorcerer) but it's still quite hard to achieve. According to the description of the autoroller, the script can generate 15000 rolls per second or 60000 per second (155 billion per month) if you use 4 instances of Baldur's Gate in parallel (like i do). The chance to get a 106 for elf sorcerers is better than 300 billion to 1. Thus, creating a 105+ roll is already very feasible and should become easier as CPUs get more cores. I guess in the long run we will see a lot of 'valid' 108 rolls.^^
Here is the current state of my rollers:
The purpose of rolling for several hours is to feel you've earned your good stats. If you're going to use an autoroll then you might as well just cheat and use CTRL + 8 to get the maximum stats.
Just a tip as I don't think it's been mentioned. I run a Mac and this is true on Baldurs EE Mac.
Some ppl are saying they rolled a mega high number and accidently clicked re-roll - loosing that score.
Actually, the killer isn't pressing re-roll it's letting go of the mouse button after you've clicked re-roll it.
As long as you still have the mouse button pressed you can move the cursor off the re-roll button and then let go of it and it doesn't do the re-roll.
A few times this has saved my bacon.
It's a known tip for long-time players, but some might not know about it.
Always useful to bring it up here !
Gus
Autorolling is still a random process even if you run hundreds of scripts simultaneously whereas pressing CTRL + 8 is completely deterministic and unrelated to the game's internal rolling mechanics. And that's why CTRL + 8 is a contemptible cheat and its users are choatic evil villains.
Sometimes the world is really simple.
Somehow there is a charm to manual rolling, the hours spent don't feel wasted to me.
I'm not trying to decide for you what's best or to impose on you my vision of what's legit and what's not, I'm merely expressing an opinion and my incomprehension regarding the reasons for using autorolling. If you pay attention, I did start my post with "I don't THINK".
Threads are for sharing and expressing points of view, there's no need to feel attacked if someone disagrees with you. You're free to do whatever you want and it's totally fine by me.
That said, most people consider manual rolling is best because it alleviates the sensation that you're cheesing the game. Sure, in the end you'll get better stats you would have had if you simply went along with whatever stats the game suggested first but it wasn't cheap because you worked for it.
It's the same logic that applies with incredibly powerful BUT difficult to get items. Let's take Carsomyr for instance : it's a very neat and powerful sword that is wildly accepted as legit because it's a tough one to get. It doesn't remove the fact that it renders most mages ineffective, gives you incredible magical resistance, not to mention that it's a +5 damaging weapon devastating against, well, pretty much anyone. Now, take the same sword and make it available for free in Candlekeep's Inn. What do you think is going to happen ?
People will feel dirty using it. The sense of accomplishment won't be there, and what's more defining for an RPG than adventuring and earning more and more power as you venture forth ?
So you see, manual rolling is a way for people to reconnect with that sense of accomplishment, it's a way to feel that pleasure you get for obtaining something that wasn't delivered on a silver platter.
Whether you use CTRL + 8 or autorolling, you simply make your life a lot easier and I fail to see where's the merit or the accomplishment - thus pleasure - in letting the computer do what you could have done yourself.
Now, if you have arguments to tell us why autorolling is legit and CTRL + 8 isn't, or why both are legit, then please, give them to us ! That's bound to be interesting.
As for the above argument I feel like auto-rolling is kinda more valid because the scores are still coming from within the game. It's just clicking the button and saving the highest score for me. It does not guarantee an all 18 roll nor will it not give exceptional strength to a class that can't have that (it does that, right? Last used that cheat back when BG2 was new.). The numbers are still rolling in the game and the only thing is I don't have to strain my eyes staring at a changing number. Now, I don't feel like that's completely legit, but I do feel like it's a lot more legit than ctrl-8 or save editor would be. To each their own tho.
Pleasure and the feeling of accomplishment are 100% subjective, it's exactly like arguing that redistributing points shouldn't be allowed because you can technically roll 18 in the stats you wants, and thus min/maxing will "simply make your life a lot easier and I fail to see where's the merit or the accomplishment - thus pleasure", to quote @Simulacre
You could argue than min/maxing was a feature of the original game while auto-rollers came later, but I could response that in that case, we shouldn't use any items, spells or NPCs that come from any kind of mods, because they can/will make the game easier and thus diminish the merit, accomplishment or whatsoever. By that same logic I could say that doing Marl, Melicamp and Shoal encounters, or clearing the basilisk area with a Protection from Petrification green scroll, will ruin the feeling of accomplishment or pride in the game because they give so much experience points without any challenge whatsoever and they are delivered on a silver platter.
Everyone is bound to have an opinion on this one, mine is that auto-rollers are completely fine and that min/maxing isn't for example. I really like to play characters with high roll (95+) but with a random distribution because it fits the way I roleplay the game, as I think that the Bhaalspawn should have godlike stats and that weaknessses (like a 18 Wisdom but only 14 Con Fighter) make the game more interesting and logical. But that's only my take on the subject.
Kinda strange.
Maybe it is using the 4d6 drop lowest method?
Edit : See for yourself, create a human fighter, mage, thief or cleric, something with a 9 minimum in a characteristic and 3 for the others. See how hard it is to roll a 90+ in the game. Now create this character, save it and open EEKeeper to roll your stats. You should see plenty of 90+ rolls now. It's interesting.
Having wasted huge amounts of my life rolling characters this feels like a gift from the gods. Now when I roll Lady Tymora always smiles on me:
http://gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-cdtweaks.html
Any insights?
When rolling a straight 3d6 + percentile dice, the odds of 18/00 is 1 in 21,600. When rolling 4d6 drop 1 + percentile, the chance is approximately 1 in 6,200. So just that change makes it more than 3 times more likely.
I've had a look at the BG2EE bytecode, and these steps are what the engine follows when rolling:
1. If the character's class has percentile strength, roll a 1d100 to calculate it, else use 0.
2. Roll a 3d6 for every character stat until said roll is within the valid value range.
3. If the total roll is lower than 75, start the whole process over again.
Human berserker.
I didn't get that high again and started the game with a 93. But this is still enough for what I want to achieve.
Welcome to the world of rolling stats! Rolling past a gem because you're hitting the button too fast is something we've all done. I'm surprised no one's written a country song about it. I've overcome the habit by counting a rhythm as I roll, and clicking the button on alternate beats. It's the only way I can manage my speed.
Btw, rolling 102, especially with a character that isn't a paladin or ranger, is probably comparable to winning a minor lottery in terms of odds. I'm the luckiest guy I know in terms of rolls (I've posted screenshots on these forums) and I've never gotten over 100. I've been playing for about 20 years, and as weird as it sounds, I enjoy rolling stats and have spent hours doing it. So at least you got to see something remarkable, even if it was only a shooting star...
As you say, though, 93 is more than enough. I hope you enjoy your game!
Thanks, I'm also rollin' since 20 years (almost 21 as I played BG on release)
@OrlonKronsteen The console version is really good - the controls are fantastic, best BG experience I ever had. And fighter/illusionist is also really nice - shorty saves, specialist mage and general f/m cheese.
Thats enough INT for uncapped spell scribing and enough WIS for the Wish spell.
I'm playing this as a Lawful Neutral solo character with the ferret familar for some pick pocket action. So far everything is good. You can loot everything with bashing and knock spell, can survive traps with protection spells and heal with regeneration from 20 CON by beelining for the CON tome and using Buckley's Buckler (later Draw upon Holy Might dream ability in Chapter 6/7).