The allure of evil...
Ravenslight
Member Posts: 1,609
I often find myself curious as to why so many players enjoy playing evilly aligned characters. I have tried this myself, thinking that I must be missing out on the fun, but I never get far.
I am heavily into role-playing my characters. I always try to let them make their own decisions. But when it comes to an evil character, my own sense of right and wrong always gets in the way.
Arguing with your character is not role-playing.
“What do you mean you’d rather keep that wedding ring for the few gold that it might bring you. Give it back to the poor woman. Perhaps it will help ease her suffering as she deals with the knowledge that her husband is truly dead.”
“Put that sword down! Yes I know that Noober is irritating. But he is just lonely. If you put up with his prattle a bit longer, he will go away.”
“You want to help Dorn do what at the wedding??”
Now I don’t mean to say that my characters are all law abiding do-gooders. Far from it. They often have their own motivations for doing all manner of inappropriate or evil acts. But truly embracing a consistently evil character is different.
I’d love to hear from other players about what motivates them to choose this type of character. Perhaps it will help motivate me to, “embrace the dark side,” in one of my own play-throughs. There is after all content that I never get to experience due to my limiting myself to certain alignments.
I am heavily into role-playing my characters. I always try to let them make their own decisions. But when it comes to an evil character, my own sense of right and wrong always gets in the way.
Arguing with your character is not role-playing.
“What do you mean you’d rather keep that wedding ring for the few gold that it might bring you. Give it back to the poor woman. Perhaps it will help ease her suffering as she deals with the knowledge that her husband is truly dead.”
“Put that sword down! Yes I know that Noober is irritating. But he is just lonely. If you put up with his prattle a bit longer, he will go away.”
“You want to help Dorn do what at the wedding??”
Now I don’t mean to say that my characters are all law abiding do-gooders. Far from it. They often have their own motivations for doing all manner of inappropriate or evil acts. But truly embracing a consistently evil character is different.
I’d love to hear from other players about what motivates them to choose this type of character. Perhaps it will help motivate me to, “embrace the dark side,” in one of my own play-throughs. There is after all content that I never get to experience due to my limiting myself to certain alignments.
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Comments
Shame, because I really like the human flesh armor, it just feels so edgy.
Hmm... maybe you can pick pocket the blood from her? Gotta try when next I get there.
That being said: the way of how most of the IE games let CHARNAME embrace evil is anything but satisfying. It's either meaningless killing sprees, sheming with an silver tongue, or something short termed muddy in-between...
No taking over Athkatla's Slaver Stockade. No way of becoming a successful tyrant in De'Arnise's Keep in the long run. Heck, even something smaller like becoming an cultist of the Unseeing Eye is not possible. And don't get me started of how Icewind Dale II barrens you from joining the Legion of the Chimera. I'm still rather bitter about that one.
This is where Planescape Torment really shines though. Given its philosophical rather gray nature and all. If one really wishes to embrace an satisfying evil playthrough, it's that game. And Tyranny of course for obvious reasons.
You have?
What happens?
(better put it in a spoiler)
I suppose it comes down to lack of motivation. For instance, I would kill Elminster if I could which I think is evil, because he's annoying, basically I need a reason to justify it.
But as far as I can tell, there aren't so many rewards for being evil so it's all a bit meh. Doing evil for the sake of evil
However, I prefer the "evil" NPC and usually play true neutral and will kill a peasant/begger to keep the rep down.
Again, there's a reason for it.
Suppose the game did offer more reward for evil actions. What types of reward would make the experience feel “rewarding” to you?
@Kamigoroshi mentioned a few possibilities. Would such things appeal to others as well?
The industry has definitely lost something there over the last couple of decades.
It seems to me that an intelligent evil villain would find traveling in the company of those with a high reputation to be very advantageous.
That being said, now that I'm older and the amount of sorrow and hardship I've seen and experienced has accumulated, I sometimes feel really crappy about evil runs. Sometimes I anthropomorphize the in-game characters too much and feel bad about hurting them. Or I feel guilty because I know Wilson is trapped in a cage and that I should rescue him. And not only that, he's an innocent bear and it would be really shitty to corrupt him on one of my blackguard runs. So now I play evil maybe half the time.
The others are right that the game is flawed in terms of writing for evil play-throughs, but I make the best of it. One way it's not flawed, IMHO is in the NPCs. From the very beginning I always found the evil NPCs to be much more fun and entertaining. With that said, I too find the reputation system - and the relationship evil NPCs have with it - to be flawed. They should definitely have the wisdom to see the value of a good reputation. And @Ravenslight is right, there was a an opportunity to do more with the chemistry between NPCs in mixed-alignment parties, though there are still some great banters to be had.
While I like some good and neutral NPCs, I always found most of them to be annoying and pathetic, and in many cases unplayable (Khalid, Aerie, Minsc and Anomen lead this list). It also seemed to me like the good NPCs were written for a younger audience than the evil ones. But, that's just a subjective opinion. In any case, the good NPCs drove me away from playing good in the old days (and now, if I'm playing good, I have to roll my own party, or at least most of it).
As for how I play evil... I tend to play tragic characters who are possessed by an inescapable darkness, thanks to the Bhaalspawn essence. They are usually aware from an early age that something is wrong with them but are powerless to do anything about it. They still have good qualities, though. They still love and have loyalty to their comrades. My blackguard might go on a devastating, bloody rampage to avenge Gorion and Imoen, for instance, and will do anything to protect their loved ones. Sometimes they regret taking the dark path, but are unable to turn back - the Bhaalspawn essence is too strong, or in the case of a blackguard, it's too late because they've already made their pact. They ultimately become comfortable with their darkness and seek power, but remain loyal to their friends. Sometimes my evil characters leave their companions (eg. leaving Imoen at the Friendly Arm Inn in early Chapter 1) because, out of love, they want to spare them from following in their dark wake. My evil characters won't go out of their way to slaughter innocents, but sometimes they view it as necessary for their advancement or even the greater good. Sometimes an opportunity for treasure and power is just too good to pass up, and if innocents get hurt it's regrettable but... Anyway, that's how I RP evil now. I don't like psychotic evil, though I was more inclined to play that way when the games originally came out.
The downside, of course, is the need for careful REP management to keep the party together, which pretty much necessitates considerable meta-game knowledge. Yes, undoubtedly, both in-game and even IRL. That's why it's called "smart Evil".
Some of the game's villains certainly use a "smart Evil" strategy. Sarevok, for example - until our protagonist exposes him, he is well thought of in BG City, as shown in various dialogues and in the fact that he wins the Ducal election.
but the thing is, when I play the BG series, I don't role play at all, I don't "get lost in the magic of the world" sort of thing, I don't relate to any of the characters, for me, its just the 1s and 0s that matter
that's why when I hear that people who don't like certain NPCs based on their attitudes puzzles me a bit, and I get a bit of a chuckle out of it, imaginary characters in an imaginary world having some impact on real people in a real world, actually now that I think of it, its kind of fascinating that 1s and 0s could have such an affect
but anyway, usually if I play evil teams, I will do the "genocide" runs I call them, where im just about to beat the final boss, but before I do, I slaughter the whole game world, to see if anyone was carrying and special items that I didn't know about, and ironically sometimes it was a rewarding experience to find things that I have never found before, usually I will do a run like this on each patch update to see what new items could be lurking in interesting areas
but other than that, I have no emotional attachment to the game world whatsoever, although usually I play good aligned runs for the convenience and for the gold piece runs I do in BG1 but a power gamer has to power game, and if I can do things that wont drop my reputation and get some gold for it, then I guess im getting some gold
this is probably the reason why I make my own parties about 80% of the time, since I don't play for the banters of NPCs and such, but every once in a while I will play the odd NPC team since they are significantly weaker than a premade team, and sometimes it's nice to "cripple" myself that way
Ironically I don't see myself as a particularly benign person despite the above, which is why I frequently end up with parties where the PC is the morally grey while everyone else are paragons of virtue.
Why spread misery if there is a place where problems are solvable and you CAN solve them?
From a philosophical perspective, it's much more complicated. Given that moral philosophy as we know it tends to fall apart when metaphysics are very tangible and gods are very real as they are in D&D, questions of good and evil become very tricky to evaluate by standards we are used to. Since there is such a thing as an afterlife and a soul to worry about in D&D, and quite irrefutably so, the behavioral implications are enormous. Evil is much more "legitimate" (in a moral-philosophical sense) of a choice when you can literally be rewarded tangibly for it by a deity. Even when gods are not involved, the substantially different nature of the rewards/consequences in the various D&D societies make good/evil even more difficult to navigate. And that's not even going into the whole problem of DEFINING good/evil in such a setting which would probably require substantial revisions throughout all of moral philosophy and sociology as we know it.
I see characters also in a light of a 'familiar' vs 'demon'. The familiar being us basically in RL. The demon being our opposite, whether it is 'good' or 'bad' doesn't matter so much as the desire to explore that part. I think often exploring that other side, whatever it may be, can be interesting and insightful to ourselves.
That's my take on the how we can get into something or not, as to the 'procedure' for it, well, that is often a little harder. First we have to be willing to 'let ' ourselves go there. Once there, from a roleplaying point of view I find it easier to get into.
I often get into to a character concept first, I have to like or be attracted to that to go further with the idea. Images for characters, music, deity and item concepts, etc. Then they just weaving themselves together to form an alignment, in this case often, not because of the 'evil' title, but hte evil desription, if that makes sense, just what happens to fit, so to say.
I find that death and the undead concept has always been something that I was curious about and have strong reactions to. So I say why not look into it in different ways, embracing and not fighting against, it's not like it is something that will not be faced with someday. Lost Druids, Palemasters, Dirgesingers, H/O clerics of Yurtrus, gnomish C/T's of Urdlen, etc. Each of these motivated in different ways.
For me, darker motif's always held an attraction, so I go with it. I can play the good, but it feels forced, like feeling forced or uncomfortable with play the evil. Possibly because the familiar in me is the 'stabilizer' the help people get along and understand one another type. That can be stressful, so the demon is easier to let come out and play a little, it actually relives the tension and is an outlet in role playing I find, making the other RL much less stressful.
I then start thinking about the characters motivation for that concept, with, it just seems to stem from that, and then often a deity concept that is alluring is added next. Then the ideas for different items in the game play into it strongly as many back up the whole idea.
So we take that dirgesinger mentioned above. I play him as motivated, starting out, as an individual that is more affected than some by never knowing his real parents, thinking he lost out on that experience forever and is hurt, can't get it out of his head.
He is hit in CK by monks that remark that he plays his music as if he is already dead, mournful, sad, and depressed all the time. They start calling him the 'dead minstrel', but also find his songs at funerals to be so powerful and overwhelmingly emotional they cannot resist listening, as it plays to exactly how they feel in loss, at hat moment.
By the way, 'Amazing Grace' on the bagpipes ALWAYS pulls at me at funerals, maybe it's the Scottish side coming out in some way, hehheh.
He then, being in CK library starts to read about what might comfort loss and comes across Shar. Leaving CK he is hit AGAIN by loss, Gorion, a foster father. This leads him further to Shar by wanting to forget but can't. The more he delves into THAT, the more he decides that other people being sad often make him feel some less alone. So, growing bitter and selfish, this progresses to WANTING to make others sad, to hurt, to see them feel what he does cause he feels better(but NEVER enough) in return.
Then items come into play and I think 'Cool, that supports the whole concept even more'. In this instance we have a few items, like Varscona,the Sharran ritual sword. We have harps that cause confusion (depression, anxiety), we have bone hide vests now that feed into the strange atttraction to singing to the dead. We have Viconia, who in this instance is a teacher of sorts, as a Sharran priestess. We have Xan, who is depressed and feels doomed in such a way that he is almost a kindred spirit, regardless of his LN alignment(much more in depth with the Xan mod).
The same goes with spells, if it supports a concept more use them, if not, restrict them somewhat.
Here, more cold, less fire, more confusion, blindness, deafness, enfeeblement, and feeblemind, less magic missile.
As to NPC's along the way, he might keep that ring form the widow to see her pain and sadness increase, he might keep the Colquette amulet to make him feel his sons loss even more (cause he HIMSELF gets satisfaction is a way). He hurts, so why shouldn't everyone else as well, he thinks. He feels life is hopeless, so others must to feel the futility of hope, he feels sad, so others must feel the pangs of sadness as well and, in so doing, draw more worshippers to Shar. More effective than handin out 'tracts', or rolling through town on a horse drawn cart strummin' out a tune to go with 'Bring out ya dead'.
He picks (headcanons) up gigs at Sharran 'Feasts of the Moon' rituals. He plays at (headcanons) funerals, not to make them feel better, but to selfishly make them feel the same unrelentless pain and sadness he does as well.
Long answer and just part of a description. As to the why, it's the chance to play out something opposite (I'm a vegan in RL, so the classes above dining on dread and vampire wolf steaks is an indulgence of sorts)
Just an example of how it plays out sometimes with me at least, and I pretty much have to role play to get the most enjoyment, but not everyone is like that of course, esp in computer gaming I think vs PnP.
I get into concepts and like to play out ideas to support that to the fullest, using everything the game or a mod can provide to back that up, the more there is, the easier it is, headcanon the rest. But if it don't feel right, why push it? It about having fun and being entertained, so go with what is the most fun and entertaining, forget the rest.
Sometimes imagination just runs wild and comes up with new ideas each and every play through.
And yeah, I get into it, just a mite.
Anyway, been nice to mention it, not always so many in RL 'get it'. Was like that in the 80's, and still is now. Nice to have a forum's 'these days', in which many DO 'get it'.
Oh, and lawd, ifin ya read through all THAT
Still I never liked any stereotype good/bad considerations to guide me, much more taking into account what is *practible*. Razing a town and killing all inhabitants is just stupid - makes more sense to sell them my loot, rest in their inns and buy in their shops. Still I don't need to feed their beggars.
If I want bloodshed, there is enough in the game. I'd rather kill everyone in the thieves guild than a village of Xvarts.
I don't keep paladins in my party for long but neither did I keep Dorn for more than a day, those are far too black/white for my taste.
I was the new god of murder at ToB end or the new Hope for the Realms. My evil character spared the life of an innocent just because it gave him satisfaction to show his power this way.
But isn't role-playing... playing a role?
It being just the 1s and 0s is not so different from it being print in a book is it?
Imaginary people in an imaginary world just about covers all fiction.
You are making a distinction about the delivery method of a story and then basing your opinion of whether it's relateable based on that.
Whereas it's just more likely you have played the game a lot. Far more than reading a particular book until it gets to the point where the story disappears and all you see is each individual word unrelated to any of the other words on the page.
I don't even like having that flesh tunic thing in my pack.
I always think I ought to pick it up (evidence), then immediately run to the merchant just outside to sell it for 1 gp. And always wonder if this time he will say anything about it and I feel guilty about even handling it.
Which is very silly I agree, so I put it down to the little picture being unpleasant.