Blackguards have different Stat Minimums than the rest of paladins. Their charisma can go as low as 14. Dorn's charisma isn't required to be as high as it is.
Specially considering that he already has the ridiculously high point count of 90 AND a magic +1 greatsword from the get go. Seriously whoever designed him went way overboard with pretty much everything: -Illegal race/class combo -19 strength, with all the stupidly high bonuses it confers -90 point count -Magic weapon from the get go -new kit with pretty much no drawbacks /end rant
Dorn, Baeloth, and Corwin are definitely overpowered compared to the pre-EE NPCs. Rasaad, Neera, Wilson, M'Khiin, Glint, and Voghiln are roughly on par with vanilla characters (stronger than most BG1 characters, weaker than most BG2 characters). Hexxat could go either way.
In general, DLC and expansions and such usually introduce characters, items, and spells of above-average quality, because otherwise people would not try them out. DLC power creep is pretty standard. You see it everywhere from Baeloth in BG1 to Bayonetta in Smash 4.
I don't find Dorn all that overpowered in the presence of Kagain, Coran, Korgan, Sarevok, and ANY of the arcane, divine, or multiclass npcs. Really an npc that doesn't immediately seem powerful is the exception, rather than the standard.
I don't find Dorn overpowered either, I lost track of the number of times he was killed by either Sarevok or just normal enemies in BG2 or even just getting killed in the mines.
In BG2 the evil NPC's are all more specialized than the good NPC's. They're stronger in their area of specialization, but weak in all other areas.
For example Edwin in a specialist mage with a bunch of extra spell slots and max intelligence. He gets an absurd number of casts per day. His stats in every area other than Intelligence are so low he actually has an illegally low stat total. He has a total of 74, and they won't let the player roll any lower than 75.
Nalia is a thief that dualed into mage pretty early. She gets fewer casts per day, but she can plug away at enemies with a shortbow between spells, and with a bit of finagling can do some thief stuff too.
Dorn doesn't follow this school of design. He's very powerful, but he's not any more specialized than Keldorn, or any other good NPC. I think that's what makes him seem like a bit much to some people.
Dorn's stats are all essentially useless without a huge amount of items and investment, though, save his strength. His WIS, CON, and CHA provide no bonuses for him: he's as effective as a 19/16/10/10/10/10 character. You'd want to give the Gloves of Dex to him for him to be on the front lines, ideally, but those already go to Kagain and Korgan in BG1 and BG2 respectively. There's a few ways to boost CON, but none of them are non-dispellable, so you're stuck with a Warrior with relatively low health. So... yeah. His immunities are nice, but easily replicated by late BG1 or early BG2 when relevant.
Quayle, an original BG1 NPC, a 67 roll (68 in BG:ee) but insanely powerful yet non-evil.
What this proves, if anything, I don't know.
I always experience Quayle as extremely weak as of all characters in a good party, he's most prone to dying during the first few levels. Maybe because of this aura of squishiness I never took him far enough to experience him as powerful.
BG1 NPCs are a little bit closer to the randomness of PnP. Amount of points all over the place. Some have a lot of points, some have a lot less. Sometimes relevant stats are high, sometimes they're low, more or less as it should be. Just a small push to the optimization side. BG2 NPCs are more videogamey, the warriors have decent to good warrior stats, same goes for the rogues and the spellcasters in their relevant stats. Beamdog NPCs, are pure videogame in the sense you would never get a roll like that in the table unless you cheated at dice, and if you were that good with dice you should have been in Vegas making money rather than goofing around in a D&D game.
@Chronicler As far as Thief/Mages go I prefer Jan to Nalia. Then again, I've never really played Nalia through a game and now that I have the DeArnise Romance and Reunion mods, it gives me a reason to play her. I just have to figure out how to build the party and NPC, because I'm one of those people who tries to pick a party that works both strategy wise and RP wise, which is a lot harder than it sounds.
BG1 NPCs are a little bit closer to the randomness of PnP. Amount of points all over the place. Some have a lot of points, some have a lot less. Sometimes relevant stats are high, sometimes they're low, more or less as it should be. Just a small push to the optimization side. BG2 NPCs are more videogamey, the warriors have decent to good warrior stats, same goes for the rogues and the spellcasters in their relevant stats. Beamdog NPCs, are pure videogame in the sense you would never get a roll like that in the table unless you cheated at dice, and if you were that good with dice you should have been in Vegas making money rather than goofing around in a D&D game.
You mean like Dorn with his one good stat (strength), decent (dex) low (con) and irrelevant (everything else)?
If he was Charname 19/18/19 you’d have a point. As is, you hating.
Dorn is a great NPC that works as DPS in the early stages and a tank in later stages, but even though he hits extremely hard he is a glass cannon for the first half of BG1. As far as I'm concerned Dorn is balanced(ish), has a great personality and a great story.
I also enjoy Neera and Rasaad to a lesser extent and I certainly love Baeloth.
Hexatt could use some work, but her quests are great.
Also Neera is Zaram's Wife so that's another point in her favor. I enjoy the other romances, but Neera's is perfect for the CHARNAME that ended being my favorite character to play and will soon have an alternate version in Tabletop.
BG1 NPCs are a little bit closer to the randomness of PnP. Amount of points all over the place. Some have a lot of points, some have a lot less. Sometimes relevant stats are high, sometimes they're low, more or less as it should be. Just a small push to the optimization side. BG2 NPCs are more videogamey, the warriors have decent to good warrior stats, same goes for the rogues and the spellcasters in their relevant stats. Beamdog NPCs, are pure videogame in the sense you would never get a roll like that in the table unless you cheated at dice, and if you were that good with dice you should have been in Vegas making money rather than goofing around in a D&D game.
I think I wasted my chance of becoming rich in Vegas, then.
And this also happened when I was making an NPC for a mod:
You mean like Dorn with his one good stat (strength), decent (dex) low (con) and irrelevant (everything else)?
If he was Charname 19/18/19 you’d have a point. As is, you hating.
He has one EXCEPTIONAL stat (strength) one good stat (dex) and one decent stat (con). The rest may be irrelevant, yet are high for some reason, case in point, 16 CHA went he can barely interact with people. The moment you recruit him hes like "HAHA WELL CUT A BLOODY SWOAT THROUGH THE SWORD COAST" even though he just met you. He doesn't know if you're as stupidly evil as him or just a neutral adventurer looking for treasure, not the blood of the innocents. Its something Tiax, in his madness, would say or maybe Xzar. I do like the character and his story, Im not "hatin", I just think the concept was badly implemented and his stats forcefully brought up to adjust to his class and even then given extra points. It just clashes too much with table characters and thats why it bothers me, but thats just my opinion, not hate in any way.
@toolarg Dorn's con is not "decent" its pretty darn bad. I think Aerie and Imoen are the only characters in my parties who have less hp than him.
At worst, you can call it "normal" but its not bad since it doesn't have penalties. Again, this is just a discussion about different criteria: P&P VS Videogames, where, IMHO, BG1 took the former one (with a bit of a push towards better stats) whereas Beamdog went full on to the later. Its also off topic, so I'll just leave it at that.
Dorn: (Raises Demonic, Soul-Eating Poison Sword of Game Breaking Proportions) WE SHALL CUT A BLOODY SWATH ACROSS THE SWORD COAST! Zaram: Uh sure...just make sure that blood isn't ours.
You can turn the weather off? This isn't something I would do, but I didn't know that was possible. Also getting struck by lightning multiple times is just hillarious after the fact.
Durlag's Tower? Piece of cake Lightning? IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Guards that protect the streets from vagrants are just that, guards that guard sleeping. Protecting the common folk from something like a danger isn't in their duty.
Farmer Brun: "I've NOTHING to give you, I spent EVERYTHING I had repairing my tools, please help me find my son" (or somesuch) Go inside his house. Gold and gems in the chests. Trust nobody, not even the farmer NPC with a sob story and convincing voice acting.
After Charname MURDERS him in cold blood for no other reason than to rob him of his shiny equipment, taking cheesy advantage of his death-match with a pack of viscious Gnolls, Drizzt spends the next year hunting down Charname only to: 1. politely ask him to explain himself, 2. believe his obvious lie about “drows=bad” despite the dark elf girlfriend fawning all over him, and 3. risk life and limb to kill a group of Charname’s enemies in a city that would have burned Drizzt at the stake simply for being Drow.
After Charname MURDERS him in cold blood for no other reason than to rob him of his shiny equipment, taking cheesy advantage of his death-match with a pack of viscious Gnolls, Drizzt spends the next year hunting down Charname only to: 1. politely ask him to explain himself, 2. believe his obvious lie about “drows=bad” despite the dark elf girlfriend fawning all over him, and 3. risk life and limb to kill a group of Charname’s enemies in a city that would have burned Drizzt at the stake simply for being Drow.
This definitely one of those cases where it would be nice if a : if x happen in BG, then x happens in BG2. Kill him in BG and he comes after one in BG2. No lakes to kite around and BAM, jumps out from a corner and goes buckwild on CHARNAME's group.
Comments
-Illegal race/class combo
-19 strength, with all the stupidly high bonuses it confers
-90 point count
-Magic weapon from the get go
-new kit with pretty much no drawbacks
/end rant
In general, DLC and expansions and such usually introduce characters, items, and spells of above-average quality, because otherwise people would not try them out. DLC power creep is pretty standard. You see it everywhere from Baeloth in BG1 to Bayonetta in Smash 4.
For example Edwin in a specialist mage with a bunch of extra spell slots and max intelligence. He gets an absurd number of casts per day. His stats in every area other than Intelligence are so low he actually has an illegally low stat total. He has a total of 74, and they won't let the player roll any lower than 75.
Nalia is a thief that dualed into mage pretty early. She gets fewer casts per day, but she can plug away at enemies with a shortbow between spells, and with a bit of finagling can do some thief stuff too.
Dorn doesn't follow this school of design. He's very powerful, but he's not any more specialized than Keldorn, or any other good NPC. I think that's what makes him seem like a bit much to some people.
What this proves, if anything, I don't know.
You have good NPC's like Dynaheir who are as specialized as anybody, and evil NPC's like Shar-Teel that can become powerful dual classes.
Never noticed how low Quayle's stat total was though. Multiclasses get it done.
BG2 NPCs are more videogamey, the warriors have decent to good warrior stats, same goes for the rogues and the spellcasters in their relevant stats.
Beamdog NPCs, are pure videogame in the sense you would never get a roll like that in the table unless you cheated at dice, and if you were that good with dice you should have been in Vegas making money rather than goofing around in a D&D game.
As far as Thief/Mages go I prefer Jan to Nalia. Then again, I've never really played Nalia through a game and now that I have the DeArnise Romance and Reunion mods, it gives me a reason to play her. I just have to figure out how to build the party and NPC, because I'm one of those people who tries to pick a party that works both strategy wise and RP wise, which is a lot harder than it sounds.
If he was Charname 19/18/19 you’d have a point. As is, you hating.
I also enjoy Neera and Rasaad to a lesser extent and I certainly love Baeloth.
Hexatt could use some work, but her quests are great.
Also Neera is Zaram's Wife so that's another point in her favor. I enjoy the other romances, but Neera's is perfect for the CHARNAME that ended being my favorite character to play and will soon have an alternate version in Tabletop.
And this also happened when I was making an NPC for a mod:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/942508/#Comment_942508
Zaram: Uh sure...just make sure that blood isn't ours.
Normal Person: Uhh....I think I'm gonna go.
Viconia moves in inmediately to heal his wounds.
Viconia gets struck by lightning.
The spell gets interrupted.
I HATE the weather in this game.
You can turn the weather off? This isn't something I would do, but I didn't know that was possible. Also getting struck by lightning multiple times is just hillarious after the fact.
Durlag's Tower? Piece of cake
Lightning? IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Wow that looks almost screen breaking. Good on Rasaad for defending Nashkel!
Go inside his house.
Gold and gems in the chests.
Trust nobody, not even the farmer NPC with a sob story and convincing voice acting.
1. politely ask him to explain himself,
2. believe his obvious lie about “drows=bad” despite the dark elf girlfriend fawning all over him, and
3. risk life and limb to kill a group of Charname’s enemies in a city that would have burned Drizzt at the stake simply for being Drow.