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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    *Hands trembling* I just had an 'interesting' run through of Ice Island where Andris decided not to mess about and throw around at least 3 disintegrates (including one at Charname around a corner!) and one power word kill for poor Xan... I was somewhat surprised so I looked up his stats on EE Keeper but he wasn't level 18 (he was 15...) in possession of the relevant scrolls, or even memorising those spells... Where might they have come from- some sort of script? Fortunately no-one else was that spell crazy and we left in short order...
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 1,060
    edited November 2017
    A couple of days ago, @semiticgod asked in the no-reload thread:

    @Enuhal: Do you know if there were any solo trilogy runs featuring the original games? If somebody did 1998 BG1 followed by 2000 BG2 and 2001 ToB, I wouldn't bother. But I thought playing with the original SoA UI and mechanics would be nice, and it would be worth it if I could do something new in the process.

    I can't really answer that question - my memory isn't good enough to remember the version details of each individual solo run - I would guess that most have been using Tutu or BGT, but there might've very well been some played in the original BG1 (in fact, I think it's very unlikely that there weren't any). However, I can't 100% confirm this (and I have also been inactive from time to time, sometimes for more than a year, so I did miss quite a few runs), so I'd like to ask very active and history-aware no-reloaders like @Corey_Russell or @Grond0 if they can answer @semiticgod 's question.

    Enuhal

    Edit: I have now checked the hall of heroes, looked at various screenshots, considered the impossibility of kits and several races/classes in the original BG1 and I've come to the conclusion that there might indeed never have been a full triology run using only the original games - all solo successes seem to have been played with Tutu or BGT as far as I can tell.
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 1,046
    While I do have party no-reloads using the original 3 games, I think you are right @Enuhal that there aren't any solo trilogy runs using the orginal games. Not while I was at BioWare anyways.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Corey_Russell: Brilliant stuff!

    I was thinking I would cure the movement rate problem by using the potion duplication trick on an Oil of Speed. I'd also be interested in seeing if the basilisk XP loop worked in the original game. Then I'd probably steamroll the rest of the game with Wands of Fire and Wands of Monster Summoning.

    For Shadows of Amn, I think I'd use some SoA-exclusive, pre-EE, pre-SCS tricks like the Rejiek Hidesman XP loop, the potion swap glitch and gem duplication trick, clone items, and the spider gnome trick. And maybe song stacking if I play a bard instead of a Fighter/Illusionist.

    Do you happen to know if you get an Oil of Speed from Imoen in the original BG1, or if there's another early source of the potion? Can wands be recharged in the vanilla game?
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 1,046
    edited November 2017

    @Corey_Russell: Brilliant stuff!

    I was thinking I would cure the movement rate problem by using the potion duplication trick on an Oil of Speed. I'd also be interested in seeing if the basilisk XP loop worked in the original game. Then I'd probably steamroll the rest of the game with Wands of Fire and Wands of Monster Summoning.

    For Shadows of Amn, I think I'd use some SoA-exclusive, pre-EE, pre-SCS tricks like the Rejiek Hidesman XP loop, the potion swap glitch and gem duplication trick, clone items, and the spider gnome trick. And maybe song stacking if I play a bard instead of a Fighter/Illusionist.

    Do you happen to know if you get an Oil of Speed from Imoen in the original BG1, or if there's another early source of the potion? Can wands be recharged in the vanilla game?

    There are not a lot of haste potions in BG 1 pre-chapter 5 - Imoen usually has one, and I think Montaron might have one too. In Chapter 5 there are 20 in the Temple in the area with the Priest who wants you to rescue his son's body from the Timberlee Temple. Not the Temple of Tymora but the other one, close to the Eastern part of that area.

    Yes wands can be recharged in the original game, and there are no summons limits either.
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member, Moderator Posts: 1,060
    Keep in mind that, while wands and other items can be recharged in the original BG1, the game will not actually tell you how many charges a wand has left - so you might want to look up the exact number or rebuy it sooner rather then later, otherwise you can easily run out of charges by accident.
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,866

    While I do have party no-reloads using the original 3 games, I think you are right @Enuhal that there aren't any solo trilogy runs using the orginal games. Not while I was at BioWare anyways.

    I might consider trying that after my urrent run finishes. I do have the original games. In those days I didn't play SoA as I didn't like the different engine, so stuck with just BG1.

    After switching to Tutu, I found that changing to the new engine after defeating Savarok wasn't so immersion breaking and so started playing SoA as well.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The price will vary based on reputation and Charisma, so you'd need to keep track of that in the process.
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,866

    Enuhal said:

    Keep in mind that, while wands and other items can be recharged in the original BG1, the game will not actually tell you how many charges a wand has left - so you might want to look up the exact number or rebuy it sooner rather then later, otherwise you can easily run out of charges by accident.

    Actually, there is a way to figure out how many charges are left. First, go to a merchant, and look what he will give you for the wand. DO NOT SELL - but note the price. Use the wand once. Now come back to the same merchant (same person as leader too in party) and note the price - whatever amount that got deducted means each charge is that amount - now divide the price by that difference, and you have how many charges are left.

    Once you know what the difference is (one charge is worth in other words), then anytime you you are a merchant you can check the price and thus see how many charges are left. Can't check during combat obviously, you would have to keep track in your head if in a dungeon or something.
    That is how I would always do it. I would always do the recharging when at maximum rep, so the number of charges was always easy to work out. @Corey_Russell Great minds work alike! :D or it it that fools seldom differ?
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 1,046

    Enuhal said:

    Keep in mind that, while wands and other items can be recharged in the original BG1, the game will not actually tell you how many charges a wand has left - so you might want to look up the exact number or rebuy it sooner rather then later, otherwise you can easily run out of charges by accident.

    Actually, there is a way to figure out how many charges are left. First, go to a merchant, and look what he will give you for the wand. DO NOT SELL - but note the price. Use the wand once. Now come back to the same merchant (same person as leader too in party) and note the price - whatever amount that got deducted means each charge is that amount - now divide the price by that difference, and you have how many charges are left.

    Once you know what the difference is (one charge is worth in other words), then anytime you you are a merchant you can check the price and thus see how many charges are left. Can't check during combat obviously, you would have to keep track in your head if in a dungeon or something.
    That is how I would always do it. I would always do the recharging when at maximum rep, so the number of charges was always easy to work out. @Corey_Russell Great minds work alike! :D or it it that fools seldom differ?
    Well I am a chessmaster, and it's rare that such a person is a fool...(because a fool would be incapable of the patience, passion, and hard work that such a achievement requires).
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,866
    edited November 2017
    @Corey_Russell When working abroad I was doing very well in the Daily Telegraph chess competition which was done by post. Sadly towards the end there was a postal strike where I was so my newspaper didn't arrive on time. :( Still, if I had made it to the finals, I wouldn't have been able to attend, so perhaps it was for the best.
    Post edited by Wise_Grimwald on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I've been spamming mage HLAs and Wish in my poverty run in ToB, and I'm concerned that I'm not doing much to develop the metagame for a ToB poverty run. What do you guys think would work besides that? My party isn't at epic levels yet aside from Charname, but for the sake of argument, let's assume we're talking about a poverty run where everyone enters ToB with at least 3 million XP.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited November 2017
    @semiticgod Well, so far, outside of your liberal use of the WoL trick to spam Skellies and Planetars, you pretty much did a solid job. With well placed Spell Immunities and cleric prebuffs (CC, FA, DW, ...) like you did, I don't think a ToB poverty run would be all that different than a regular one. You're just at a point where your ressources (arcane and divine spells, BH traps, ...) are plentyful even without items.

    After all, ToB is all about spamming HLAs anyway. The metagame knowledge to be gained was more about the previous parts. Maybe a SoA run without HLAs would gather more metagame knowledge, but other than that, I think you did a better job than what you seem to think.

    Edit : Maybe one thing : a bit more flexibility with divine magic would probably have helped ? With only one cleric, if he goes down, you can't revive anybody for a while. It's the reason why you had to grind to get to HLA in SoA, which coincides with the moment where you seemed to lose interest in the run a bit. Am I wrong ?
    Post edited by Arctodus on
  • Serg_BlackStriderSerg_BlackStrider Member Posts: 211
    Arctodus said:

    @semiticgod Well, so far, outside of your liberal use of the WoL trick to spam Skellies and Planetars, you pretty much did a solid job.

    I just wonder how WoL trick is even possible during poverty run in the first place...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited November 2017
    @Serg_BlackStrider: The original poverty challenge permitted items provided that you created them yourself. So Flame Blade, Seeking Sword, Melf's Minute Meteors, Fire Seeds, Goodberries, Alchemy, and Wish are all valid ways of gaining items. Wish lets you create both potions and wands, though not all types.

    I got a Wand of Lightning by accident in the Unseeing Eye lair, but refrained from using it until ToB.
  • Serg_BlackStriderSerg_BlackStrider Member Posts: 211

    @Serg_BlackStrider: The original poverty challenge permitted items provided that you created them yourself. So Flame Blade, Seeking Sword, Melf's Minute Meteors, Fire Seeds, Goodberries, Alchemy, and Wish are all valid ways of gaining items. Wish lets you create both potions and wands, though not all types.

    I got a Wand of Lightning by accident in the Unseeing Eye lair, but refrained from using it until ToB.

    Got it, thanks.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Sometimes I get the feeling that Wish might be kind of overpowered.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Say... are any of you guys familiar with NWN? Because, depending on NWN's mechanics, it might be an excellent candidate for a no-reload run.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847

    Say... are any of you guys familiar with NWN? Because, depending on NWN's mechanics, it might be an excellent candidate for a no-reload run.

    Exceedingly. More than exceedingly, really. I've played the OC and HotU so many times I can't even count how many. It's not terribly difficult to do, either, because casters aren't absolute gods of hyperdeath like they are in BG.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Flashburn said:

    absolute gods of hyperdeath

    Good to know that I'm not the only Undertale trash on the Beamdog forums.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited November 2017


    With Spell Revisions installed, things would be radically different. Aside from SR nerfing some spells that spellcasters, especially sorcerers, would lean heavily on, SR would change Enchanted Weapon so that it could create a +3 weapon of any kind except for +3 darts (though a future release might change that) for 24 hours. That would make fighter levels much, much more practical than they currently are, and therefore reduce the need for both summons and especially spell damage. Clerics of Lathander would also be a viable replacement for Clerics of Helm if they had access to a +3 mace or staff, and Totemic Druids might not be necessary because there are so many viable summons in SR, even at level 1. It might also be worth temporarily recruiting Jan so he could generate a bunch of flashers for a sorcerer-generated +3 crossbow.

    Not only that, but in SR druid spells like Shillelagh and Flame Blade gets up to +3 enchantment at level 9. Seems like a fighter/druid with Stoneskin, Spirit Armor and Barskin (which adds to AC instead of setting it in SR) could actually be an awesome tank and damage dealer. Perhaps even better : cleric's Spiritual Hammer gets +1 to its enchantment every 5 level until it gets all the way up to +5 enchantment at level 20. And in SR it can attack at range. A cleric of Lathander in SR would be a LOT better than a priest of Helm : he could attack Big B at 3.5 APR (Boon of Lathander, Divine Power, and Haste) at 25 Strength (Divine Power, DUHM, Champion's Strength and Strength of One) - and all of that at range. I think a team with a Totemic druid, a fighter/druid and a priest of Lathander could litteraly thrash Big B in a poverty run with SR. Add in Sorcerers who can lower his resistance to deal magical and acid damage and I think he'd go down fast enough...
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    Hey gang, I hope you're all doing well. I have a quick question for the no-reload veterans. Would you advise playing SCS for bit with reloads before trying no-reloads, or should I continue to engage in trial by fire? I'm an SCS noob, and I've tried a couple more no-reloads since I last posted on the main thread, but I keep running afoul of things I don't expect (usually mages). I'm thinking I might learn more by finishing a campaign or two on SCS with reloads. But on the other hand, now that I've tried a few no-reload runs, I feel like I'm cheating when I do reload. And I'm much more critical of my own play now. What to do... Thanks in advance for your sagely advice.
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 992
    edited November 2017
    Entirely depends on what you want. You can get better by only doing no-reloads : if you bump on an hurdle, learn and beat it the next time around. On the other hand, doing a regular playthrough will get you more familiar with the mechanic of the game.

    You could also try minimal reload on a learning run. Or, continue to no-reload and, when you're on a run that is going great, keep going a bit with it even if you die somewhere along the way. But, be aware : no-reloading is addictive. You'll get to a point where reloading not only feels wrong, but also just take away your interest in the run.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    @Flashburn: I plan on trying out NWN:EE when it comes out. Do you think it would be realistic to do a blind no-reload run of the OC?
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited November 2017
    It's possible to do a thematic minimal no-reload for awhile. For example an evil Blackguard/ Necromancer who can only use power word reload at the cost of a companions' life. (Usually whoever has been in the group the longest.)
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