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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,082

    @Wise_Grimwald Most likely you'll need to attach your save in the modding section (describing what mods you have installed) and ask the folks there to look at your save.

    Thanks. I'll do that. Probably in BWS as I used their installer. :)

    JuliusBorisov
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    A question for the experienced SCS players, regarding SoA:

    In which order do you usually complete the "big" (aka stronghold related) sidequests in chapter 2/3?

    My current thoughts (based on only one very unsuccessful run quite some time ago) are along the lines of: De'Arnise Keep (except for Tor'Gal) and the Druid Grove should be pretty easy (I don't have tactics spirit trolls installed, unlike my previous attempt), the Temple Ruins as well (though protection from undead scrolls are removed in my installation), as long as I'm not high level enough to face liches. Mae'Var's guild should be doable if I can quickly take down Rayic Gethras (I think I have the right combination of spells available to achieve this).
    The Windspear Hills would force me to deal with powerful SCS vampires, though having an undead hunter is (hopefully) helpful. I have no idea yet how I should deal with behoders (they are at their most powerful in my installation), so the Unseeing Eye could be very dangerous (I know jelly form works quite well, but I'm not sure that will be enough for the bigger battles (the duration isn't too long, and the damage quite low), and in the past, I experienced some strange bugs with jelly form and the anti-magic ray, like getting stuck in jelly form literally forever). The planar sphere and astral prison sound pretty dangerous, I should propably save those for last.

    I also have some questions regarding some specific types of enemies:
    Let's assume you have no anti-undead weapons or protection from undead scrolls available (a very likely scenario for me, as I use item randomiser): What are some good ways to deal with the more powerful types of vampires?
    I'm propably missing something really obvious here, but how do you quickly take down mages if they use SI:Abjuration to protect their buffs?
    The Shade Lord: I understand he has some pretty unique abilities - what exactly is required to safely kill him (once again, assuming that specific items aren't available)?
    Are there any other enemies with radically different abilities that I should propably really know about in early SoA?

    JuliusBorisov
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,799
    @Enuhal: Any magic attack can take down SI: Abjuration in SCS. You don't need an alteration spell like Ruby Ray of Reversal; SI: Abjuration only blocks Breach and Dispel/Remove Magic, not Spell Thrust/Secret Word/Pierce Magic/Ruby Ray/Pierce Shield/Spellstrike. But if the enemy also has Spell Shield, you'll need to cast another magic attack first.

    StummvonBordwehrAndreaColomboEnuhalJuliusBorisov
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    Thanks @semiticgod - that's some great info! I don't have time right now to comment further upon what you wrote, but I will do so either this evening or tomorrow.

    JuliusBorisov
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    The main question that remains for me: Provided you don't intend to just run away or skip these encounters (and no special antimagic kits or items are available), how do you generally try to beat high level spellcasters like Tolgerias, the Warden, Liches or (especially) Kangaxx (no protection from undead scrolls are available in this installation)?

    While I'm not exactly sure I can deal with anything else in early SoA without reloads, I think I have at least some solid ideas of how it COULD be done with relatively low risk (though we shall see about that). High level spellcasters still do seem really scary, though.

  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 785
    Shade Lord and thus all of Umar Hills I've always found easy, for what it's worth. He can't see through Invisibility, and Better Calls for Help don't seem to apply to him, so my usual steps are going up the stairs Invisibly, getting everyone southwest of his position, then letting everyone with magical ammunition fight Patrick and the Altar. The Shade Lord should be alone now. From there, have someone invisibly get in sight range of the Shade Lord, and have one and only one ranged attacker take a shot, and retreat immediately after the attack roll is made. Either you get out of there in time, in which case the Shade Lord doesn't do anything, or that custom script of his fires and in that second of time, your only character's out of vision. I haven't lost a run at Umar in ages, and is probably the only stronghold quest where that's true for me.

    In order of ease of completion, I usually do Circus -> Slavers -> Harper's Hold -> Umar -> Druid grove -> De'Arnise Keep -> Mae'Var IF you have True Seeing/True Sight, Unseeing Eye if you have enough untargeted ranged spells (Fireball, Cloudkill, etc.) -> Spellhold. The Planar Sphere and Prison are the worst two, both having high level spellcasters with solid immunities and no way to escape to the rest of the world if things go south terribly quickly.

    Dealing with High Level Spellcasters: the main method is generally Summons. And more Summons after Death spell is used. Even high level liches have trouble getting past level 15-versions of Animate Dead after their Death Spells are gone. There're a few that'll ignore the skeletons, though: the lich you can release from the Underdark prison thing is a notable one that I keep forgetting about that almost always turns into a disaster. For Kangaxx, I'll use a precious Pro. from Magic scroll on my tank; neither form can get past that as far as I'm aware, and even with enhanced AI only seemed to focus on killing the nearest character.

    EnuhalStummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    Thanks for all the answers!

    @Neverused Do you play with the option allowing spellstrike to take down PfM scrolls? Because I would expect at least the first version of Kangaxx to be able to cast spellstrike, specifically to prevent this tactic (which is what I, as well, always do in vanilla) from working.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,915
    @Enuhal that wouldn't do Kangaxx much good if you use the scroll on him :p.

    semiticgoddessJuliusBorisov
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    True, though Neverused mentioned using it on their tank. Does the scroll stick around once Kangaxx changes his form? I would expect the demi-lich version to be treated as a new entity.

    Also, from the things I've read, a PfM scroll seems to be very useful or even needed for the Ascension battle at the throne, so I'm not sure if I can/should use the two available ones to fight demi-liches.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 598
    Just an alternative view on quest order. This is assuming solo. My perspective is to be as economical as possible in travelling rather than back and forth between Athkatla and the countryside.

    1) Circus / everything in Promenade except Mencar’s gang.
    2) Start chapter 2 and go straight to graveyard.
    3) Clear out all upper tombs (some nice loot, especially with Randomiser something good can turn up, especially on Crypt King) but don’t go to lower tombs
    4) Head for temple and take first ambush (Suna Seni’s gang, most of them are very weak and can be one-shotted)
    5) Pick up all quests in Temple but don’t go to sewers or Guarded Compound
    6) Government - pick up all quests and rescue Viconia
    7) Back to Promenade - second ambush (also easy) to start Harper quest
    8) Progess illithium quest / trade in Adventurer’s Mart (you probably already have 15k worth of loot). If feeling strong enough, now you can take out Mencar; otherwise wait until you have Lilarcor (immunity to charm and confuse very handy).
    9) City Gates to pick up quest. This triggers third ambush, which you can fight or run depending on how difficult it looks. Naturally you’re not going anywhere near the lich yet.
    10) Back to Slums and do the whole Coronet / slavers stuff.
    11) Docks - do it all except Kangaxx. Thief stronghold is mega easy, Rayic Gethras is hardest bit but that’s a 1 on 1 fight which should be manageable as long as you pay attention to what he’s casting. Harper stuff gets you load of loot for minimal fighting. Pirates can also be cleared from their hideout.
    12) Bridge. Do this in 2 rounds. First round: all the easy stuff / minimal fighting. Progress Fallen Paladins, skinner quest until basement, clear the noble estate (very easy and lots of gold), pick up all the quests. Second round is all the fighting, and great thing is you can do them one after the other with a lot of your buffs still running: kill the Fallen Paladins, then kill Captain Dennis’ crew, finish Buried Alive, and then Neb for illithium. Then do the skinner basement (polymorph mustard jelly makes you immune to the assassins, but not to the ghast or golem so they need to be killed fast). Finally do Valeria (highest chance of your buffs being dispelled, so do this last - but so many nice items possible with Randomiser). Naturally you are not doing lich or Rune yet.
    13) Finish Sarles with fake illithium (store real illithium away) and pick up dawn ring quest (do that whenever convenient at night).
    14) Clear lower tombs in graveyard (should be easy by now given your level and equipment)
    15) Temple sewers. This is a spike in difficulty, especially Tarnor’s gang and the Rakshasa, so need to be well equipped and prepared.
    16) Rescue Haer’Dalis. Some of the fights in here are tough, especially as you are likely to get 3 x yuan-ti mages and there is hardly any space. Mekrath himself is easy and you can run all around the compound if kiting necessary.
    17) Planar Prison (!). Not for the faint of heart but I do this very early compared to most recommendations. Make sure you have all equipment and consumables (+ the rod of resurrection you get in Mekrath’s lair). You need to buff to the max for basically 4 big fights, as well as have buffs in reserve. Also somewhat notorious for SCS better calls for help messing a lot of things up when it comes to enemy movement and where they are (sometimes a lot of them kill themselves on the petrify trap near Warden). Because enemies wander all over the place, you can end up with mega-fights rather than a series of encounters. That said, the first fight is easiest (just beware of what the yuan-ti mage does, you likely have to leave him to last). The platform on the right with multiple yuan-ti mages is difficult, but you can head back left to stretch / kite. The Master of Thralls can be deadly if your buffs are removed, so you need to kill him fast (ignore elementals). And finally the Warden, who is insane except he can be (cheesily) kited to waste abilities (so in the end this fight becomes a doddle).

    To be continued

    EnuhalJuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehrsemiticgoddess
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,915
    Enuhal said:

    True, though Neverused mentioned using it on their tank. Does the scroll stick around once Kangaxx changes his form? I would expect the demi-lich version to be treated as a new entity.

    Also, from the things I've read, a PfM scroll seems to be very useful or even needed for the Ascension battle at the throne, so I'm not sure if I can/should use the two available ones to fight demi-liches.

    It's not a tactic I've used, but I think the idea is for a simmy to use the scroll(s) - thus allowing you to retain both copies for the future.

    Enuhal
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,589
    @Enuhal As I concluded after https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/783271/#Comment_783271 in "Accumulated Wisdom for BG2 Solo No Reload Games", if you don't solo, there're almost no reliable ways to kill the lich from the City Gates District with SCS before you return after the Spellhold (without reloading, ofc).

    EnuhalCorey_RussellStummvonBordwehr
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 598
    Continued...

    Time to leave Athkatla. Only things not yet done in Athkatla are:

    1) Unseeing Eye quest
    2) Planar Sphere
    3) Guarded Compound
    4) All liches (gates, bridge and sewers)
    5) Kangaxx
    6) Twisted Rune
    7) Any chapter 3 stuff (assuming you have randomiser so no guarantee to get Amulet of Power. Otherwise you would definitely trigger this to get the Amulet)

    18) de’Arnise Keep. Mostly a doddle, except for Spirit Trolls with their STR drain (you need to pop invisible and wait 50 rounds for this to expire!). The fact they keep going invisible and regenerate makes it hard to keep targeting them, but you really need to keep attacking one until dead. Torgal is tough with his support crew, but you can split them up to avoid fighting everyone at once. Lots of buffs needed but nothing majorly complex.
    19) Umar Hills. Do the sidequests and kill Valygar while you’re here. The dungeon bit is tough but manageable. The liches that spawn are not true, full-powered SCS liches. The only high level spells they cast are the scripted ones (i.e. chain contingency, sequencers etc), otherwise it’s mainly defences and low level spells that they use. Greater mummies should be treated with respect, they hit hard. Dragon can be skipped or killed easily with the Limited Wish scroll from Adventurer’s Mart (use the one-off wish for Time Stop to chop it into pieces while it has no defences up). Shade Lord strategies already discussed.
    20) Trademeet and Druid Grove. Do it all while you’re here, there’s no single particularly difficult encounter. Cernd can be used to kill Faldorn in a non-cheaty way by using Rod of Resurrection to heal him any time his HPs get too low.
    21) Windspear Hills. Most of it is straightforward, biggest danger is the vampires. One slightly cheesy way to deal with them is to buff to max, cast Mislead in one of the rooms, run out (closing doors behind you), and chop them up as fast as poss. Not easy because they do move around a lot and likely to require multiple castings of Mislead (use invisibility to escape as soon as it expires, unless you want to be shredded apart). Firkraag can be done at the end or you can leave him to Chapter 6 if not confident. You just need full gamut of buffs (fire resistance, fear resistance, weapon defences) and SI Abjuration, he basically can’t touch you if your defences are sound.
    22) Back to Athkatla and start Chapter 3. I always side with thieves but your call, easier fights if you go with Bodhi. A couple of tasks have to be done at night, so you want to start chapter to do those at right time.
    23) Planar Sphere. Straightforward enough and you should be around 3m XP by now with this quest order.
    24) Guarded Compound. At least do ground floor. Go to top floor if confident in your setup, buffs and equipment, or you can leave to Chapter 6. Invisibility is your friend if you get in any trouble, and keep up the stoneskins to prevent backstabs.
    25) Unseeing Eye (if confident) or leave to Chapter 6. I’m assuming you don’t have the shield with randomiser. You should have HLAs by now which makes this much more manageable because you can kill beholders quickly. Well worth reading up on SCS beholder strategies either way.
    26) Finish chapter 3. You can just kite Bodhi for a few rounds or smash her quickly with GWW or similar.
    27) Off to Spellhold. Only things left undone (unless you chose to skip anything) are the setpiece liches, Kangaxx and Twisted Rune. They need to wait until Chapter 6 to be done more safely unless you have got lucky with key equipment or spells somewhere.

    StummvonBordwehrEnuhalGrond0
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,830
    Do you have to fix everything I like to abuse???

    tbone1semiticgoddessWise_Grimwald
  • Flashburn said:

    Do you have to fix everything I like to abuse???

    Yes. This is called Government. Imagine how unhappy you'd eventually become if left to your own preferences.

    semiticgoddess
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Flashburn said:

    Do you have to fix everything I like to abuse???

    No kidding, it's like living with your in-laws.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,799
    @Alesia_BH: It's good to see you again. I hope you'll be able to stay here a long time.

    Alesia_BH
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,799
    Alesia_BH said:

    Beastmasters have a terrible reputation. Forget that. Focus on what they can do, not what they can't do. Set the comparisons aside.

    A thousand times yes. More than anything else, this is what holds us back: thinking about how things can't be done, instead of thinking about how they can be done.

    Alesia_BHJuliusBorisovlolienStummvonBordwehr
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,082
    I am currently playing SoD and have Dynaheir and Minsc in the party and want to split them up in order to have Jeheira join.

    I have the mod installed that allows you to split up duos such as those two, however it doesn't appear to work in SoD. The old trick of leaving one of the duo in a building/cave etc and getting him/her to leave the party doesn't work as you have to go everywhere with your entire party.

    The only way of getting rid of Minsc that I can think of is to get him killed and I would rather not do that. Paladins don't do that sort of thing. :)

    Any ideas?

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
  • EnuhalEnuhal Member Posts: 592
    @Wise_Grimwald You can still split up duos by going to a place you never intend to return to and boot one of the duo out of the party, then leave before the "do you really want me to go?"-conversation triggers. Just send the party member you want to leave behind away from your party leader, so you have enough time to leave before they can get to you to start the conversation, and then exit the area forever. I just tested this with Minsc and Dynaheir.

    JuliusBorisovStummvonBordwehr
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