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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,519
    edited November 16
    I am having a problem with the Secret of Bonehill Quest.

    I know what should happen, but it isn't. The Druid as supposed to tell me to give a message to Martin, but doesn't.

    Martin won't talk to me without that script firing.

    Does anyone know the variable responsible for this and hopefully what the variable should be.

    EDIT

    I think that the variables are in the image below. If anybody can elucidate, I would be grateful.


    ansm24ox16lh.jpg

    It is clear that the relevant variable is: BHFELWINSPOKEOFMARTIN. Any ideas what the variable should be, or other info that could be of use?

    I FOUND THE ANSWER. :) SOMEBODY ELSE HAD THE SELFSAME PROBLEM. ISN'T THE WEB WONDERFUL. :)

    I HAD TO SET THIS GLOBAL TO GET ALMAX TO SPEAK TO ME AGAIN.


    C:SetGlobal("BHAlmaxSpeaks","GLOBAL",4)

    Post edited by Wise_Grimwald on
    StummvonBordwehr
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 229
    What is your opinion on ATweak, specifically on part PnP elementals?
    I remember that battles in Underdark against elementals were very difficult and entertaining, I was forced to revive half of party members after each elemental portal. But on the other side elementals are so strong that they can breeze throught the most of enemies in SoA. Cernd once casted two fire elementals and they cleaned whole Planar Prison (with SCS installed).

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    Are there any advantages in a negative speed factor, or is 0 the lower limit?

    The wiki states that the monk fist has a speed factor of 2. Does that decrease as the fist gets +1, +2, etc...?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,891
    @jessejmc: Speed factors stops at zero. Monk and Kensai speed factor bonuses only proceed so far.

    AerakarjessejmcJuliusBorisov
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,026
    Atweak elementals were probably a little too challenging/ irritating, there were also some unfortunate bugs so I haven't installed the component in a long time.

  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 411
    edited November 18
    That is a good idea, though I normally pelt the whole room with so many webs that no one without free action is going to save against spell long enough to do anything.

    However, I'm curious if that would cause problems with Winski? I know in my last run I attempted to shield the real dukes with Otilukes (a white/neutral spell) and Winski decided that was out of bounds. Invisibility is a blue/defensive spell, though, so perhaps it's considered okay.

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    Grond0 wrote: »
    I agree that you can't go below 0 as a base. That means you can never offset the random initiative factor (which adjusts the base value within a range - making it worse by up to 3 or better by up to 2) to ensure you actually attack at speed 0. No matter how quick your weapon you can't therefore entirely rule out retaliation by someone else with a reasonably quick weapon. There's a detailed discussion of the impact of initiative on weapon speed here.

    Thanks. I'd seen the term initiative before but didn't know how the mechanic worked. I thought I was misplaying, but that explains why some enemies were able to retaliate. Is my understanding correct that speed factor only affects the timing of the first attack in the round?

    On another note, a monk gets 2 fist attacks at level 6, so I would attack with Icingdeath (1 APR, 3/2 APR at level 7) then immediately switch to fists (2 APR), which would allow me to squeeze an extra attack in over just using Icingdeath. I haven't tested it yet, but this should allow an initial attack with The Chesley Crusher, then immediately switch to another weapon to get a second attack in that round.

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    edited November 19
    I've stitched together a few quotes from that thread with one from this one.
    Grond0 wrote: »
    This behavior can be exploited in some cases. For instance, you may know that an opponent has only 1 attack per round, but has a faster weapon than you. In that case standard tactics of trying to get an attack in and then retreat before the opponent can retaliate won't work well. However, there is an alternative, i.e. come very briefly into melee range and then retreat before your opponent can strike. That starts their combat round, but not yours (as you were not trying to attack). If you come back into range after, say, half the opponent's round has completed they have missed their opportunity to attack in the round - leaving you several seconds to get a free attack in yourself. You then retreat and keep out of range until the round counter has expired and then do the same thing again. Note though that this tactic is of far less use when opponents have higher APR as the combination of that with the random initiative factor means it's no longer possible to accurately predict a period when the opponent will not be able to strike at you.
    Grond0 wrote: »
    Against opponents with slow weapons, like 2-handed swords or halberds, it's easy to get caught out by repeated attacks. If an opponent has APR 2 and is using a 2-handed sword, you might expect there will be a significant gap between attacks, but that will tend not to be the case. If the combination of initiative and weapon speed were that a first attack is due in segment 10 for instance, that attack will instead be forced to segment 9, with the second attack coming immediately afterwards in segment 10.
    Grond0 wrote: »
    the round timer (which I agree is about 6 seconds if you're playing at 30 fps) for weapons commences at the point you order an attack while in range with the weapon being used

    So kiting with a slow weapon is still possible, albeit more difficult than a fast one. The options appear to be that you can
    1) Like you describe, enter their melee range to begin their round, back out to let their attack pass, then move back in to attack.
    2) Begin your round early. The most obvious is to use a range 2 weapon to begin your round before they can enter their range, step back briefly, then land your attack. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but it should be possible to use a ranged weapon to start the round, switch weapons before firing, and land an attack as they enter melee range. I'm not 100% sure on this, as I'm not sure how speed/initiative apply on weapon switch.

    The other thing it makes me think is that if you had more than 1 APR and a slow weapon, you could begin your round early, back out, and land multiple attacks at the end of your round. This could make it worthwhile to carry a plain Two-handed Sword, as it has the slowest speed factor of 10 (Edit: 8-10 with initiative). This would also depend on how speed/initiative apply on weapon switch like #2 above.
    Grond0 wrote: »
    pqah4tbu8bx9.jpg
    From the image: "Second attack expected to occur halfway between first and end of round, but rolls initiative 1."

    Is this how multiple APR is scheduled? Speed/initiative determines the first attack segment, then the remainder is divided between that segment and the end of round segment? If so, would attacking with a fast weapon and immediately switching after the hit to a slower weapon cause the slower weapon to attack faster than it would have by itself?

    I realize that a lot of this is less important as APR increases, but I've yet to successfully complete SoD and spend a lot of time in BG:EE.

    Post edited by jessejmc on
    Aerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,452
    jessejmc wrote: »
    Is this how multiple APR is scheduled? Speed/initiative determines the first attack segment, then the remainder is divided between that segment and the end of round segment? If so, would attacking with a fast weapon and immediately switching after the hit to a slower weapon cause the slower weapon to attack faster than it would have by itself?

    You're pushing at the boundaries of my knowledge I'm afraid. I've played a lot and I imagine my game style pays more attention to the intricacies of weapon combat than most people - but I'm still limited to practical experience without any knowledge of the game engine in theory. The random initiative factor makes it difficult to test more complicated situations, but my impression would be that you probably wouldn't gain an advantage in the above situation as the game would recognize the switch of weapons and adjust for that. Give it a go though and see how you get on (remember you would need an APR of at least 2 to give it any chance of working) :).

    Aerakar
  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    Going to test this, but would like to set up a 20s round to have a half segment per second. Would someone mind checking my math? If 30fps is a 6s round, 60fps is a 3s round, and 15fps is a 12s round, then 9fps should be a 20s round.

    Grond0Aerakar
  • StromaelStromael Member Posts: 194
    Does anybody know how casting a level-dependent cleric spell like Holy Power (which gives a base THAC0 of a Fighter of the same level) would work for a dual-classed Cleric -> Mage?

    E.g., for a Cleric (9) -> Mage (15), should the new base THAC0 be:

    12? (for the 9 Cleric levels)

    9? (for the average level of the character)

    or even 6? (for the 15 Mage levels)

    or something else entirely?

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,881
    Wait, I don't understand anymore. Suppose I have 4 apr and wield a weapon with speed 10, given the round is 10 units, then when do all attacks take place?

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    lroumen wrote: »
    Wait, I don't understand anymore. Suppose I have 4 apr and wield a weapon with speed 10, given the round is 10 units, then when do all attacks take place?

    The first attack should be forced to segment 7, then the rest occur on 8, 9, and 10.

    Grond0semiticgodlroumen
  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    I wanted to establish round length before investigating further, and here are some initial findings. Auto-Pause on End of Round has been enabled. The first count is from pause, initiate attack, unpause and start timer, to auto-pause and stop timer. The remaining counts are from auto-pause, unpause and start timer, to auto-pause and stop timer.

    BG:EE doesn't allow a frame rate below 10.

    30 FPS, which should give a 6 second round:
    7.01, 6.97, 6.92, 7.05, 7.02, 6.95

    10 FPS, which should give an 18 second round
    20.48, 20.58, 20.45, 20.41, 20.53, 20.38

    15 FPS, which should give a 12 second round
    13.78, 13.61, 13.61, 13.61, 13.55, 13.57

    18 FPS, which should give a 10 second round:
    11.33, 11.48, 11.40, 11.45, 11.35, 11.47

    45 FPS, which should give a 4 second round:
    4.85, 4.71, 4.78, 4.83, 4.71, 4.73

    60 FPS, which should give a 3 second round:
    3.56, 3.55, 3.56, 3.60, 3.58, 3.52

    I was also thinking about speed factor. Speed factor of 1 to 10 could be 10 segments, but if a speed factor of 0 is allowed, there could be 11 segments in a round. This would partly depend on if the engine uses zero-based numbering and if the [0:10] range is inclusive or exclusive.

    StummvonBordwehrAerakarGrond0Gusinda
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,881
    jessejmc wrote: »
    lroumen wrote: »
    Wait, I don't understand anymore. Suppose I have 4 apr and wield a weapon with speed 10, given the round is 10 units, then when do all attacks take place?

    The first attack should be forced to segment 7, then the rest occur on 8, 9, and 10.
    I never knew that. So it pays off to use end of round pause after all, before you redirect a character who is still attacking in his or her round.

  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 119
    kjeron wrote: »
    If your timing from the attack roll display, you will be slightly behind the actual value, as the attack cycle begins when the animation starts, while the attack roll is usually delayed until the half-way mark of the animation (when the weapon would visually make contact).

    The animation does begin before the attack roll displays in the console, but after a few quick tests, if you move while the animation is playing but before the roll displays, it cancels the attack.
    kjeron wrote: »
    If you have cosmetic attacks disabled, it's likely not a cosmetic attack, but something else. The difference being it will satisfy the "Attacked()" trigger, as well as end invisibility/sanctuary, while a true cosmetic attack would not.

    I do have cosmetic attacks disabled, so it must be something else. I had just assumed that cosmetic attacks sometimes played incorrectly every now and then and wasn't aware that there was a difference. Perhaps the attack animations get out of sync, the one that should be playing and the new one after the weapon switch, as there was no attack roll before the end of round auto-pause.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,891
    If there truly are 11 segments, is there some way we might be able to hit 11 APR instead of 10?

    StummvonBordwehr
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,881
    You can at least try by creating an effect that sets attacks per round to 11 or higher and use pause end of round and count.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,091
    semiticgod wrote: »
    If there truly are 11 segments, is there some way we might be able to hit 11 APR instead of 10?
    The segments correspond to weapon speed, not APR.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,891
    No such luck when giving Yoshimo higher APR by tweaking the standard shortbow APR. I can edit the right field in Near Infinity as a decimal to make it set APR to 11 or higher,* but no matter how high it is, it just sets base APR to 4.5 (displayed as 9/2).

    If I make it increment APR instead of set APR, it just drops APR to 1 (or maybe 0.5 or 1.5; I don't remember). The funny thing is, if you set APR to 4.5 by using a decimal of 11 or higher, haste has weird effects on it: while Improved Haste will properly double APR from 4.5 to 9, regular haste will actually decrease APR: the Record screen will say 5 APR, but your actual APR goes from 4.5 to 2.5!

    If I make it set percent of APR and, say, crank it up to 1000% of one's regular APR, the Record screen will display 5. Haste it and you get a Record screen saying 6 APR, with an actual APR of 3.

    I don't know where exactly the overflow is going here, but opcode 1, the APR opcode, can't break the 10 APR limit. Higher values appear to just cut your APR in half.

    *In that field, values 0 through 5 just mean 0 to 5 APR, but values 6 to 10 are for fractional APR: 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5.

    Aerakarjessejmc
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,881
    How does whirlwind adapt your apr then? Set to a percentage and add undispellable improved haste for the duration? Or other op code?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,891
    @lroumen: It sets your APR to 5 via opcode 1, then doubles it using an alternate haste opcode (which exists to bypass free action) which is set to improved haste. Energy Blades does the same thing, but with 4.5 APR instead of 5 for a total of 9 APR.

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