Oh go back to the depths of NMA and chill out. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean others aren't allowed to try it.
That's not what he said.
He wants the game to flop so the series Can return being about isometric games for a small niche of gamers.
I'm not a big fan of Bethesda Fallout as i do think nobody gets that series except for Tim Cain and Chris Avellone. But i'm not a fan of the clunky and overly difficult gameplay of the first 2.
I refuse to buy online versions of good single player RPGs because it nearly always comes at the expense of the single player RPG series (looking at you, KOTOR). I also have very little patience for microtransactions. Think i'll just stick to 3/New Vegas.
I refuse to buy online versions of good single player RPGs because it nearly always comes at the expense of the single player RPG series (looking at you, KOTOR). I also have very little patience for microtransactions. Think i'll just stick to 3/New Vegas.
It depends on what the microtransactions do. For instance, I'm playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey right now, and alot of people are complaining alot about the microtransactions. But I really don't know why. For one thing, they ruin the game's progression if you are actually interested in playing it to it's full potential. But for another, it's a single-player game. If someone wants to buy an EXP or gold boost for with their money, more power to them, but it isn't effecting my enjoyment at all.
Fallout 76 is another matter entirely because it's essentially turned the series into an MMO. And there are multiple MMOs I can play if I want to. I'm not sure why in the world I would need to play THIS particular game in single-player when there are hundreds of hours for me to sink my teeth into in Fallout 4 if I have an itch for this particular experience.
The main problem is that single-player games are dying. Assassin's Creed can still cling to that model by offering a cash shop even though it isn't necessary, but hardly anything has that kind of cache anymore. Every game has a "Gold" or "Deluxe" Edition that comes with early game-breaking gear and some cosmetic skins for $50 extra dollars. I guess Tomb Raider is still out there if that is anyone's thing. Eventually we'll get Elder Scrolls 6 and Cyperpunk, but not anytime soon. And long before we ever see the next entry in either of Bethesda's two big series, all we are going to get is some shitty mobile game (Blades) and an online version of a series that has no business being online (76).
In summary: I'm having more fun running around Ancient Greece in Assassin's Creed Odyssey than I have had in any game in quite some time. Despite it's optional microtransactions, it's still the current heir the The Witcher 3's open-world throne. It really is that good. On the other hand, there is almost no chance I will ever even consider purchasing Fallout 76.
I have been retreating further and further into classic games with every year that passes. The death of single player games is only the start. Ubisoft and EA are trying to make games as a purely streaming service, to completly eleiminate ownership. The only hope for the future of gaming is small indie studios at this point.
yeah i agree with thacobell. besides indie games i mostly been playing older stuff. it's clear the fallout series is not gonna be the same in the foreseeable future so i may as well just stick to the older games and new vegas if i want to play a fallout game.
Here's a good vid on some unknown (until now) elements of the game....catching diseases, mining minerals and junk? also was found one traveling super-mutant NPC vendor with a brahman no less,lol. I personally also like the level requirements for gear/weaps, a better balance that way imo. I am actually liking this game the more I learn about it, and I am not a big fan of pvp unless...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf10pkkTT4I
This is more or less what I wanted. Well, maybe not reviews, because they don't matter for the end game (and regardless, games should never be review bombed because in the long run, it only harms the industry). What matters is the game performing terribly in sales. It matters because if there is one thing that could possibly make Bethesda rethink about their approach to the franchise, it is money. Simple as that. While I have absolutely no faith in their cognitive abilities, there is still a slight hope that things can get better from now on.
Either that or Fallout franchise is getting put out of its misery.
Also, one more thing. Given how my previous interaction in this topic looked like, I want to specify something, so that people won't make up inaccurate conclusions about what I want. So, I have no problem with Fallout being different gameplay-wise. I do have problem with bad writing, disrespecting and not understanding the lore, stripping off the features that makes Fallout what it is etc. All those Bathesda is guilty of.
A YouTuber I respect Basically tl;dr'd the game as beautiful presentation, minimal substance. Worth maybe $20 if you're generous but certainly not full $60.
EDIT: Not that the graphics are great but the map is beautifully constructed.
@ShapiroKeatsDarkMage There is no need for that. Personal attacks are against the rules here, even if you have different tastes in games from other users.
The game is clearly unfinished, or maybe it was never meant to BE finished at all. It's a 3D Fallout world that is completely devoid of all the other elements that make the other 3 games interesting. And Bethesda is known for their bugs, but Fallout 76 is, based on all evidence, in another league. Barely playable framerates on PS4, massive drops even on warhorse PC rigs. They released it unfinished because they could. They figured hell, these saps will lap up anything with the Fallout logo. Except, they seem to have been wrong. I can excuse a Kickstarter project running out of money for releasing their game because they simply have no other choice. A behemoth like Bethesda has no such excuse. This was a half-assed attempt at best. And that is probably being generous.
And it't not like reviewers have a hard-on for sticking it to Bethesda. Every open-world game they have released since Morrowind has been universally acclaimed until now. With this game tanking their reputation, and Blades likely to suffer backlash simply by the osmosis effect of the Diablo: Immortal announcement, all I can say is......support your indie developers.
I don't understand who this game is for. The multiplayer part is just......there. It doesn't mean anything, it just exists. The single-player experience basically amounts to random MMO-like quests and collecting junk. There are no NPCs. It serves neither a multiplayer or single-player audience. If you want multiplayer, why not play any of a hundred games that do it better?? If you want a single-player experience, what point is there to playing this over Fallout 4 unless you happen to enjoy the map more??
What I think killed it was not having dedicated servers for different play styles.
A MMO like this would work amazingly for team vs team pvp as groups fight for the little scraps that the game offers.
If that’s not your cup of tea, then a player bs environment server where you can join forces or not to explore the wasteland.
If you are more into the rebuilding the world, have servers dedicated just for that. What gets placed in the world stays there (until someone else comes around and tears it down), opening player made ships and businesses as the world slowly gets tamed around you.
Seperate the three and I think people would be more forgiving as their “niche” gets addressed properly.
Bethesda mucked this up though and I hope it doesn’t kill the franchise outright.
So......I picked this up today out of sheer masochistic curiosity, along with the fact that it is almost half-off for the moment because of Black Friday on the PC. I've already refunded one absolute disaster this week in regards to "Underworld: Ascendant", and I highly doubt this game will reach THAT level of ineptitude, but at this point after watching hours of videos on this I just have to see how this disaster is actually shaping up in real-time. Also, I have a uncontrollable urge to participate in online gaming holiday sales.
That being said, my initial impressions are these:
1.) This is the exact engine from Fallout 4. I know Bethesda has been using the Creation Engine since Morrowind itself, but this game looks EXACTLY like Fallout 4. That isn't a bad thing, since at least on PC, if you have a gaming rig, it seems to run ok in the FPS department. The PS4 and XBox One couldn't even handle that game at consistent 30 FPS, which is why they are struggling with this one.
2.) In regards to the no NPCs, at least there is some context. It seems Vault 76 went in in anticipation of the nuclear war, well in advance. Thus, they were always intended to be the first ones out to rebuild. The situation in the Vault is a stark difference between 3 and 4, as the atmosphere seems almost idyllic and celebratory, and the Overseer herself a respected and revered figure rather than a murderous underground tyrant.
3.) This is a survival game using the base gameplay of Fallout 4 as a template, with multiplayer thrown in, I'm assuming simply so a cash shop has an excuse to exist. I honestly don't know WHY this couldn't have just been a single-player survival game with the West Virginia open-world (which is legitimately beautiful). Because in the first hour I haven't ran into a single other soul. The world designers did just fine here. But the other aspects of the game are just tacked on repeatable MMO fetch and kill quests (which I personally have some tolerance for but I'm guessing alot of people don't) along with this vague idea of playing with other people, even though that aspect of the game seems totally pointless because you don't really see anyone AND you can opt out of most of the functions of it.
Again, I just don't know why the multiplayer exists in this game. Whatever novelty it has is going to quickly run out, which will leave us with a wonderful in-game representation of Appalachia with some very basic survival game elements. Which is fine. At least on PC, the game isn't a technical disaster like it is on consoles. But there is just no purpose being served by the multiplayer aspect of this game. Since you can effectively ignore it, it isn't a deal-breaker if you are looking for a 4th open-world in this universe. If you have a high tolerance for the repetition of hunt and gather quests that populate MMOs, this game will probably scratch an itch. But there is really nothing here beyond the exploration. But then again, the exploration has been the best part of Bethesda games from the beginning. Don't pay full-price for this, but the world itself is definitely worth $30 to take in and traverse at least once.
Played another couple hours tonight, and I am even more pissed that multiplayer was ever the direction they went. Because it's what is causing all the technical glitches and is making something that COULD have been a compelling single-player experience for a certain type of player get a bad rap.
The interesting part of Fallout 76 is that it is dealing with the aftermath of what happened to the first batch of survivors after the war. In a nutshell, all of West Virginia in this game is an example of the great chapter in Stephen King's "The Stand" where the people who survived the plague can't survive society falling apart around them. Everyone has died, and the entire story of what happened is told by audio logs of the dead people you find everywhere. There are characters who tell a story in this game, but none of them are alive anymore. Fallout 76 explicitly feels like some massive ghost story. There is nothing inherently wrong with how it's being told, and it is in some ways even MORE compelling than parts of the older games. The criticism about this aspect of the game was way overblown, and I feel like I can't chalk it up to anything but pure laziness, because unraveling the story requires a ton of reading and listening to holo-tapes.
Even the survival aspect is kind of decent. But good god, this multiplayer idea was such horseshit from the start. The game runs fine when you are nowhere near anyone, but once two or three people end up in the same area as you, the frames start dropping and stuttering and devolves into a totally unstable state. Seeing people whose names range from "undeaddemon420" to "frodo111" walking around with you in a game where your solitude is one of the main selling points is just so damn disappointing. Because I can honestly say exploring this totally empty and ghost-like shell of WV by yourself would be a compelling and nerve-wracking experience. The enemies are interesting, I could get behind everything this game is trying to do. Except that it is online-only and there are other players in your game. It's the cause of almost all the technical shortcomings, and it also serves to ruin what could almost be seen as a massive open-world survival/horror game.
The problem is that the big developers are convinced single player is dead and that only multiplayer sells. As far as I'm concerned I won't ever bother with multiplayer for multiple reasons. I won't derail this thread into a why I hate multiplayer games, though
The problem is that the big developers are convinced single player is dead and that only multiplayer sells. As far as I'm concerned I won't ever bother with multiplayer for multiple reasons. I won't derail this thread into a why I hate multiplayer games, though
I guarantee if this was a single-player game it's review scores would be 20-30 points higher among both critics and users. It's a Bethesda game, of course there would be stuff that only modders would ever end up fixing if that was the case. But it's hard not to trust the Bethesda game modding community to do so, when the modern Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles are practically the epicenter of the PC modding community in general. I don't think anyone trusts Bethesda to fix the technical shortcomings in their own games, except in this case they are going to have to, because it's a service game.
Again, I could handle a Bethesda open-world game once a year in the Elder Scrolls or Fallout universe simply because there is nothing quite like them in gaming, despite their problems. Just walking around and running into things is often compelling enough. What makes no sense is while this is going on, Destiny-like community PvE events pop up and reward instant loot upon completion.
They have this fairly-well realized idea of what happened in West Virginia told in a new way, they have another wholly impressive open-world to tell it in. And what they have done instead is put all the major focus on the quest structure of MMOs and Destiny. Except, even in those cases, the concepts they are borrowing are cursory at best.
I just don't get it. No one could have possibly expected they'd have another full Fallout world ready so soon after 4. Everyone would have rallied around this game if it wasn't a.) suffering crippling technical issues and b.) designed around a multiplayer concept almost no one who enjoys the series is interested in. Even saying all that, the piling on has at this point taken on a life of it's own. This is not by any stretch of the imagination one of the "worst games of all-time", though it's apparent failure is going to make it seem like it is.
Another small update, as I have only really had time to dabble and explore a bit more. One thing I will say for the multiplayer in this game is that, at the very least, PvP is almost non-existent. On the one hand, this doesn't surprise me, as the people interested in playing Fallout for it's world-building and exploration aspects don't give a crap about that sort of gameplay. Games like Rust (which Fallout 76 is clearly cribbing from in some respects, again, this is EXPLICITLY a survival game, but it's survival-lite) may do what this game is trying to do better, but they also by all accounts have an active player-base that can almost be described as sociopathic. In some ways, the minor cottage industry of Youtube reviews slamming this game has served the purpose of keeping those type of people away from the game entirely, so what you are left with is simply people who want to explore the world (and it's a massive, massive map) without engaging in the kind of PvP actions that ruin the gameplay sessions of other people.
Serves Bethesda right for attempting to cut out the middle man in Steam/GoG. It'll be interesting if this lawsuit extends to console purchases as well. I wouldn't put it past the Firm to do that. The more people they get on board, the more money they receive in the end.
I mean, I've seen one Scorch Beast in the sky in about 6 hours. It is not in question that some aspects of this game are just flat-out out recycled from Fallout 4 and Skyrim. I don't know what Fallout 76 means from a lore perspective, but as individual story vignettes they aren't that offensive.
Again, I'll defend the West Virginia open-world (especially the use of regional folklore), mildly go to bat for the basic survial elements, and rip it to high heaven for it's current technical issues and the multiplayer in general. If they would just let me exist on my own server and provided some technical and bug fix support for this game, it would be good. One day when this dies down, I imagine modders will have a shot at manipulating this base into a single-player game.
Serves Bethesda right for attempting to cut out the middle man in Steam/GoG. It'll be interesting if this lawsuit extends to console purchases as well. I wouldn't put it past the Firm to do that. The more people they get on board, the more money they receive in the end.
One thing to keep in mind: even in a brick and mortar store, you are not guaranteed a refund. Every business sets their own refund policy and Bethesda's seems to be "if you downloaded the game, it is final sale."
This law firm is looking for a quick settlement, which I doubt they'd get.
Comments
I'm not a big fan of Bethesda Fallout as i do think nobody gets that series except for Tim Cain and Chris Avellone. But i'm not a fan of the clunky and overly difficult gameplay of the first 2.
You are allowed to like shitty games made by shitty companies. I am allowed to wish those companies to go banckrupt. It is that simple.
Fallout 76 is another matter entirely because it's essentially turned the series into an MMO. And there are multiple MMOs I can play if I want to. I'm not sure why in the world I would need to play THIS particular game in single-player when there are hundreds of hours for me to sink my teeth into in Fallout 4 if I have an itch for this particular experience.
The main problem is that single-player games are dying. Assassin's Creed can still cling to that model by offering a cash shop even though it isn't necessary, but hardly anything has that kind of cache anymore. Every game has a "Gold" or "Deluxe" Edition that comes with early game-breaking gear and some cosmetic skins for $50 extra dollars. I guess Tomb Raider is still out there if that is anyone's thing. Eventually we'll get Elder Scrolls 6 and Cyperpunk, but not anytime soon. And long before we ever see the next entry in either of Bethesda's two big series, all we are going to get is some shitty mobile game (Blades) and an online version of a series that has no business being online (76).
In summary: I'm having more fun running around Ancient Greece in Assassin's Creed Odyssey than I have had in any game in quite some time. Despite it's optional microtransactions, it's still the current heir the The Witcher 3's open-world throne. It really is that good. On the other hand, there is almost no chance I will ever even consider purchasing Fallout 76.
I personally also like the level requirements for gear/weaps, a better balance that way imo.
I am actually liking this game the more I learn about it, and I am not a big fan of pvp unless......
Either that or Fallout franchise is getting put out of its misery.
Also, one more thing. Given how my previous interaction in this topic looked like, I want to specify something, so that people won't make up inaccurate conclusions about what I want. So, I have no problem with Fallout being different gameplay-wise. I do have problem with bad writing, disrespecting and not understanding the lore, stripping off the features that makes Fallout what it is etc. All those Bathesda is guilty of.
EDIT: Not that the graphics are great but the map is beautifully constructed.
The NMA and the Codex guys are preparing the champagne and appetizers.
And it't not like reviewers have a hard-on for sticking it to Bethesda. Every open-world game they have released since Morrowind has been universally acclaimed until now. With this game tanking their reputation, and Blades likely to suffer backlash simply by the osmosis effect of the Diablo: Immortal announcement, all I can say is......support your indie developers.
I don't understand who this game is for. The multiplayer part is just......there. It doesn't mean anything, it just exists. The single-player experience basically amounts to random MMO-like quests and collecting junk. There are no NPCs. It serves neither a multiplayer or single-player audience. If you want multiplayer, why not play any of a hundred games that do it better?? If you want a single-player experience, what point is there to playing this over Fallout 4 unless you happen to enjoy the map more??
A MMO like this would work amazingly for team vs team pvp as groups fight for the little scraps that the game offers.
If that’s not your cup of tea, then a player bs environment server where you can join forces or not to explore the wasteland.
If you are more into the rebuilding the world, have servers dedicated just for that. What gets placed in the world stays there (until someone else comes around and tears it down), opening player made ships and businesses as the world slowly gets tamed around you.
Seperate the three and I think people would be more forgiving as their “niche” gets addressed properly.
Bethesda mucked this up though and I hope it doesn’t kill the franchise outright.
40% off, to be precise.
I hope noone of you bought it full price. If you did, I'm sorry.
That being said, my initial impressions are these:
1.) This is the exact engine from Fallout 4. I know Bethesda has been using the Creation Engine since Morrowind itself, but this game looks EXACTLY like Fallout 4. That isn't a bad thing, since at least on PC, if you have a gaming rig, it seems to run ok in the FPS department. The PS4 and XBox One couldn't even handle that game at consistent 30 FPS, which is why they are struggling with this one.
2.) In regards to the no NPCs, at least there is some context. It seems Vault 76 went in in anticipation of the nuclear war, well in advance. Thus, they were always intended to be the first ones out to rebuild. The situation in the Vault is a stark difference between 3 and 4, as the atmosphere seems almost idyllic and celebratory, and the Overseer herself a respected and revered figure rather than a murderous underground tyrant.
3.) This is a survival game using the base gameplay of Fallout 4 as a template, with multiplayer thrown in, I'm assuming simply so a cash shop has an excuse to exist. I honestly don't know WHY this couldn't have just been a single-player survival game with the West Virginia open-world (which is legitimately beautiful). Because in the first hour I haven't ran into a single other soul. The world designers did just fine here. But the other aspects of the game are just tacked on repeatable MMO fetch and kill quests (which I personally have some tolerance for but I'm guessing alot of people don't) along with this vague idea of playing with other people, even though that aspect of the game seems totally pointless because you don't really see anyone AND you can opt out of most of the functions of it.
Again, I just don't know why the multiplayer exists in this game. Whatever novelty it has is going to quickly run out, which will leave us with a wonderful in-game representation of Appalachia with some very basic survival game elements. Which is fine. At least on PC, the game isn't a technical disaster like it is on consoles. But there is just no purpose being served by the multiplayer aspect of this game. Since you can effectively ignore it, it isn't a deal-breaker if you are looking for a 4th open-world in this universe. If you have a high tolerance for the repetition of hunt and gather quests that populate MMOs, this game will probably scratch an itch. But there is really nothing here beyond the exploration. But then again, the exploration has been the best part of Bethesda games from the beginning. Don't pay full-price for this, but the world itself is definitely worth $30 to take in and traverse at least once.
The interesting part of Fallout 76 is that it is dealing with the aftermath of what happened to the first batch of survivors after the war. In a nutshell, all of West Virginia in this game is an example of the great chapter in Stephen King's "The Stand" where the people who survived the plague can't survive society falling apart around them. Everyone has died, and the entire story of what happened is told by audio logs of the dead people you find everywhere. There are characters who tell a story in this game, but none of them are alive anymore. Fallout 76 explicitly feels like some massive ghost story. There is nothing inherently wrong with how it's being told, and it is in some ways even MORE compelling than parts of the older games. The criticism about this aspect of the game was way overblown, and I feel like I can't chalk it up to anything but pure laziness, because unraveling the story requires a ton of reading and listening to holo-tapes.
Even the survival aspect is kind of decent. But good god, this multiplayer idea was such horseshit from the start. The game runs fine when you are nowhere near anyone, but once two or three people end up in the same area as you, the frames start dropping and stuttering and devolves into a totally unstable state. Seeing people whose names range from "undeaddemon420" to "frodo111" walking around with you in a game where your solitude is one of the main selling points is just so damn disappointing. Because I can honestly say exploring this totally empty and ghost-like shell of WV by yourself would be a compelling and nerve-wracking experience. The enemies are interesting, I could get behind everything this game is trying to do. Except that it is online-only and there are other players in your game. It's the cause of almost all the technical shortcomings, and it also serves to ruin what could almost be seen as a massive open-world survival/horror game.
Again, I could handle a Bethesda open-world game once a year in the Elder Scrolls or Fallout universe simply because there is nothing quite like them in gaming, despite their problems. Just walking around and running into things is often compelling enough. What makes no sense is while this is going on, Destiny-like community PvE events pop up and reward instant loot upon completion.
They have this fairly-well realized idea of what happened in West Virginia told in a new way, they have another wholly impressive open-world to tell it in. And what they have done instead is put all the major focus on the quest structure of MMOs and Destiny. Except, even in those cases, the concepts they are borrowing are cursory at best.
I just don't get it. No one could have possibly expected they'd have another full Fallout world ready so soon after 4. Everyone would have rallied around this game if it wasn't a.) suffering crippling technical issues and b.) designed around a multiplayer concept almost no one who enjoys the series is interested in. Even saying all that, the piling on has at this point taken on a life of it's own. This is not by any stretch of the imagination one of the "worst games of all-time", though it's apparent failure is going to make it seem like it is.
This video was good. Strong critique without being salty
And Skyrim dragons? That's just lazy and uninspired.
https://gamerant.com/fallout-4-lawsuit-addiction/
Or are you talking about this (which hasn't been filed yet):
https://twinfinite.net/2018/11/fallout-76-bethesda-lawsuit/
Serves Bethesda right for attempting to cut out the middle man in Steam/GoG. It'll be interesting if this lawsuit extends to console purchases as well. I wouldn't put it past the Firm to do that. The more people they get on board, the more money they receive in the end.
Fallout 76 is a dumbed down version of fallout 4
And unlile skyrim where you can fix some stupis decisions eg sun damage from vampires, deadly dragons, etc, 76 can not be fixed with mods.
There are tons of better surviving games.
Again, I'll defend the West Virginia open-world (especially the use of regional folklore), mildly go to bat for the basic survial elements, and rip it to high heaven for it's current technical issues and the multiplayer in general. If they would just let me exist on my own server and provided some technical and bug fix support for this game, it would be good. One day when this dies down, I imagine modders will have a shot at manipulating this base into a single-player game.
One thing to keep in mind: even in a brick and mortar store, you are not guaranteed a refund. Every business sets their own refund policy and Bethesda's seems to be "if you downloaded the game, it is final sale."
This law firm is looking for a quick settlement, which I doubt they'd get.