The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
Ok what about the civil lawsuits the maga kid is making? No punishments there either right.
Nick Sandmann’s lawyers are seeking get rich quick money from 50 Celebrities, Media Outlets for “avalanche of false accusations, false portrayals, and cyberbullying”
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of social media. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
Would you say the MAGA kid should sue the media as a deterrent then? These kinds of lawsuits just strike me as get-rich-quick schemes for the most part. Maybe I should head down to Washington and get oppressed. Probably a quicker way to retirement than what I'm doing now...
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
The media is not a DNC machine. This is not correct at all.
Why would the media give credence to Republican lies all the time if they were in it for the DNC? For example the media, of which Fox News is a member by the way, are pushing lies and conspiracy theories and distortions of the Green New Deal from Republicans. Mainstream media is like "Well Trump says it's this even though it doesn't say that so the truth must be somewhere in the middle!" They constantly go out of their way to give legitimacy to right wing pundits who are almost always lying. They bring on a scientist and some goofy pundit and pretend like they both know what they are talking about when it comes to climate science. No, they have
Why would the DNC media give Howard Schultz a townhall? When he's only going to siphon DNC votes?
The only media that is an arm of a political party is FOX NEWS and it's an arm of the Republican party. It is 100%. State News. Take a look at Fox News, take a look at Trump's twitter feed. They parrot each other. They reinforce each other. They get their talking points from each other. Trump only appears on Fox News 41 times as of Jan 2019 since he was President, he almost never appears on legitimate new organizations. Trump also talks to Hannity all the time every day.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
The media is not a DNC machine. This is not correct at all.
Why would the media give credence to Republican lies all the time if they were in it for the DNC? For example the media, of which Fox News is a member by the way, are pushing lies and conspiracy theories and distortions of the Green New Deal from Republicans. Mainstream media is like "Well Trump says it's this even though it doesn't say that so the truth must be somewhere in the middle!" They constantly go out of their way to give legitimacy to right wing pundits who are almost always lying. They bring on a scientist and some goofy pundit and pretend like they both know what they are talking about when it comes to climate science. No, they have
Why would the DNC media give Howard Schultz a townhall? When he's only going to siphon DNC votes?
The only media that is an arm of a political party is FOX NEWS and it's an arm of the Republican party. It is 100%. State News. Take a look at Fox News, take a look at Trump's twitter feed. They parrot each other. They reinforce each other. They get their talking points from each other. Trump only appears on Fox News 41 times as of Jan 2019 since he was President, he almost never appears on legitimate new organizations. Trump also talks to Hannity all the time every day.
Ugghhh, Hannity is a hack with an IQ of about 85. He's right up there with Levin and Savage on my list of jackasses I never listen to. I've never watched Coulter but from what I've seen I'm pretty sure she'd be on my list too. Rush Limbaugh is at least intelligent and entertaining, although his sycophantic worship of Trump made me ditch his ass too. I wish some of you folks could hear the more moderate conservatives on the radio here in Detroit on WJR. You'd be surprised by how different real conservatives are from these morons...
The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
Ok what about the civil lawsuits the maga kid is making? No punishments there either right.
Nick Sandmann’s lawyers are seeking get rich quick money from 50 Celebrities, Media Outlets for “avalanche of false accusations, false portrayals, and cyberbullying”
Actually, the lawyer is saying “do not destroy anything related to this.”
He WAS slandered by more than enough people. Saying stuff like “That kid has a punchable face” should have consequences. And want to know something? A quick apology once all the facts came out would probably have been suffice.
This isn’t a get rich quick mechanic. It’s holding people accountable for their actions which has caused harm.
So the next time a quick video of a kid wearing something that people don’t like emerges, people will actually think twice about posting shit they know nothing about especially if you have a net presence reach that can help push a false narrative
The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
Ok what about the civil lawsuits the maga kid is making? No punishments there either right.
Nick Sandmann’s lawyers are seeking get rich quick money from 50 Celebrities, Media Outlets for “avalanche of false accusations, false portrayals, and cyberbullying”
Actually, the lawyer is saying “do not destroy anything related to this.”
He WAS slandered by more than enough people. Saying stuff like “That kid has a punchable face” should have consequences. And want to know something? A quick apology once all the facts came out would probably have been suffice.
This isn’t a get rich quick mechanic. It’s holding people accountable for their actions which has caused harm.
So the next time a quick video of a kid wearing something that people don’t like emerges, people will actually think twice about posting shit they know nothing about especially if you have a net presence reach that can help push a false narrative
It's only the current toxic social-media environment that allows this kind of shitstorm. Do we really want to set the precedent that a bunch of yahoos posting on Facebook or Twitter can make somebody an instant millionaire? Don't we have enough ambulance chasers already???
The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
Ok what about the civil lawsuits the maga kid is making? No punishments there either right.
Nick Sandmann’s lawyers are seeking get rich quick money from 50 Celebrities, Media Outlets for “avalanche of false accusations, false portrayals, and cyberbullying”
Actually, the lawyer is saying “do not destroy anything related to this.”
He WAS slandered by more than enough people. Saying stuff like “That kid has a punchable face” should have consequences. And want to know something? A quick apology once all the facts came out would probably have been suffice.
This isn’t a get rich quick mechanic. It’s holding people accountable for their actions which has caused harm.
So the next time a quick video of a kid wearing something that people don’t like emerges, people will actually think twice about posting shit they know nothing about especially if you have a net presence reach that can help push a false narrative
It's only the current toxic social-media environment that allows this kind of shitstorm. Do we really want to set the precedent that a bunch of yahoos posting on Facebook or Twitter can make somebody an instant millionaire? Don't we have enough ambulance chasers already???
So how do we make it less toxic if not by holding people accountable? Twitter isn’t going to enforce it. Why would they? They’re make more money the more people use thier service.
But besides the severity of the situations, I see nothing different here with Sandy Hook families and Alex Jones.
A false narrative was spread negatively impacting a person’s life. The people spreading that narrative, especially the ones with reach should be held accountable for it especially when they had time (24hrs after the real story broke) to make amends and they refused.
I'm sympathetic to the kids in this case, since a reckless media storm--that is, a controversy stirred up with little regard for the truth; not just a controversy that merely happens to be troublesome for someone--sounds like a variant of cyberbullying, in the sense that it's a coordinated online group effort that can damage a person's life, mind and future. I don't know if this Covington Catholic controversy qualifies, but I can see the merit in allowing people to sue large groups for misrepresenting and damaging the lives of the small and powerless.
Still, @Balrog99 has a point. This kind of lawsuit can be open to abuse, though I'm not sure it would be frequent enough to generate any real industry on the scale of personal injury law agencies (which, frankly, are scumbags across the board, regardless of the merit of any individual's personal injury lawsuit). I think it would really depend on exactly what damages these kids suffered specifically--and even then, you'd still have to establish that the media behaved recklessly.
Again, I think this entire affair is fuzzy at best. There's not sufficiently strong grounds to justify punishing either the kids or media figures.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
No. It wasnt nearly as open-close. I think @semiticgod is spot on. There are problems with both the details of the situation (Conflicting reports) and biases permeating both liberal sources and conservative sources which make it really hard to get close to the truth of the matter.
The best we can do is collectively shrug, and move on.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
No. It wasnt nearly as open-close as you seem to think. That's fine though. I think @semiticgod is spot on. There are problems with both the details of the situation (Conflicting reports) and biases permeating both liberal sources and conservative sources which make it really hard to get close to the truth of the matter.
The best we can do is collectively shrug, and move on.
No there isn’t. All video evidence shows that the kids were telling the truth the entire time. There is nothing conflicting in their version of events. People still cling to the “conflicting reports” because they do not want to be wrong.
I said it before, I don’t blame or accuse Phillips here as what he perceived to be happening both before and during the incident. Perception is important but the kids are less at fault than anyone else in this situation.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
No. It wasnt nearly as open-close as you seem to think. That's fine though. I think @semiticgod is spot on. There are problems with both the details of the situation (Conflicting reports) and biases permeating both liberal sources and conservative sources which make it really hard to get close to the truth of the matter.
The best we can do is collectively shrug, and move on.
No there isn’t. All video evidence shows that the kids were telling the truth the entire time. There is nothing conflicting in their version of events. People still cling to the “conflicting reports” because they do not want to be wrong.
I said it before, I don’t blame or accuse Phillips here as what he perceived to be happening both before and during the incident. Perception is important but the kids are less at fault than anyone else in this situation.
Millions of $$$ in damages though? He got insulted and it wasn't in private like it would have been years ago. Whoop de doo... I was insulted and bullied in the schoolyard daily because I had glasses back when I was in grade school. Maybe I should sue the school system or the state government for not protecting my 'feelings' enough. Come on people, this is a joke! Internet threats are too easy. If you want to put a stop to them, prosecute the assholes as criminals. You don't have to throw them in jail, just fine the assholes personally and dont let them hide behind 'press' credentials unless they hold to journalistic standards. Problem fucking solved!
Edit: Personally, if somebody informed me that my daughter was bullying someone on the internet there'd be Hell to pay for her. However, even the biggest asshole in the country would be pissed if he got fined $1k for his/her daughter or son's cyberbullying...
The Covington Catholic students will not be disciplined for the controversy we discussed earlier in this thread.
The Diocese of Covington, which initially denounced the students' behavior and said they could face expulsion, celebrated the news and said the teenagers had been "exonerate[d]" and "can move forward with their lives."
The investigative report, which was prepared by a private company called Greater Cincinnati Investigation, included interviews with 43 students and 16 chaperones and reviewing about 50 hours of internet activity.
The company was unable to reach Nathan Phillips, the tribal elder, or the student who directly faced him in the viral video.
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
I have sympathy for the idea that the kids have been wronged and should seek restitution to deter similar coverage in the future, but I'm not convinced that a legal suit will achieve that. In an adversarial court situation it's inevitable that everybody's actions will be painted in the worst possible way, so it wouldn't be a healing process for anybody.
I don't think it would be easy to prove negligence to a criminal standard on the part of the media, so if I had been involved in the affair I most certainly would not want to participate in a controversial legal case. I can though see value in an open discussion of the underlying issues in the case - like the extent to which private individuals should be subject to media scrutiny, the way in which laws cover social media and the extent to which the requirement to investigate the truth should prohibit off the cuff comments on developing situations. I think that discussion would be much better done not in a adversarial court situation though ...
Incidentally, I was a bit taken aback by the above report of the Diocesan investigation - which didn't interview either of the 2 people most central to the affair. I'm not intending to cast doubt on the results of the investigation, but I would say that the process seems dubious to me. I can't help being reminded of the Kavanaugh investigation, but (unlike that) if this incident does eventually end up in court the principals will most certainly have to testify and any apparent lies told will be used against them.
So why didn't the innocent kids move the hell out of the way?
Because phillips walked up to him. The kid had no idea what was going on or why he was singled out. If you look at one of the far view videos, you'll see that Phillips had a clear path on the left. He walked over to the kid who was sticking out a bit instead.
Legal analyst Jennifer Breedon told RT that the pending lawsuit could be a “landmark” case.
“There’s certainly foundation to go to trial for this,” Breedon argued. “A lot of Americans can realize that celebrities are taking this way too far. They’re using their celebrity platforms to speak out against things which they really have no expertise or knowledge on.”
She said that public figures with tremendous influence should be held to certain standards, since a single misinformed tweet is capable of snowballing into a reputation-ruining internet witch hunt.
Imagine if Jenny McCarthy was actually held accountable for all her anti-vaxxer comments on social media. She isn't a doctor, scientist, or anything pertaining to medicine except being a mother, yet she and others were able to convince people not to vax their kids over "parental choice" and spreading unproven rumours. There have been outbreaks, real medical emergencies that have cost millions of dollars because of this.
What about Black kids vilified by the Right Wing Media? Should we let Trayvon Martin's family sue FOX News for what they sai about him? Can the Central Park Five be able to sue Donald Trump over the full-page ad he took out in the New York Daily News calling for them to be jailed (they were NOT actually guilty)? I mean New York has been passing laws allowing Abuse survivors to sue their abusers...
With these kids, you could say that they were slandered because they were wearing MAGA hats. Trayvon Martin was slandered for wearing a hoodie. But those kids only got Slandered for a short time. Tayvon Martin was killed. One could argue that Trayvon got far worse out of the deal. Oh, they got called some names. Boo-hoo. They took no worse harm than that. It could have been a LOT worse.
Meanwhile, speaking of Penalties, ICE and its contractors have been found to have thousands of violations, but they have only enacted penalties in 2 cases (Source: Daily Kos) I find this quite disgusting, and it makes me sad. Apparently, the Trump Administration was looking into putting up these children who crossed the border at two decomissioned Air Force bases that are a nightmare, Super Fund sites with heavy levels of lead, arsenic and many more. And kids, being small, are more easily affected by these contaminants. They have since rethought that, apparently.
Today, though, there was a near-riot on the Mexican side of the border, where Migrants who have been waiting well over a week to cross the bridge to America got riled up from waiting so long... And here's the video I saw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAkHDylv80o
This isn’t whataboutism. Just because others have suffered more does not mean they themselves have suffered.
Trayvon was murdered and Zimmerman got away with it because of Florida laws. That’s what happens when you let gun lobbies dictate legislation.
Central Park 5 could have gone after Trump and the newspaper but was probably glad they were no longer household names.
I think it is a bit more complex than just being glad they were no longer household names.
After the longer video with the Covington kids the entire media backed off very quickly, partially because the parents of Nick Sandmann were able to pay a PR firm and initiate multiple lawsuits. This takes money.
Both Trayvon and the Central Park 5 had too little money plus the wrong color.
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
No. It wasnt nearly as open-close. I think @semiticgod is spot on. There are problems with both the details of the situation (Conflicting reports) and biases permeating both liberal sources and conservative sources which make it really hard to get close to the truth of the matter.
The best we can do is collectively shrug, and move on.
As Deltago pointed out this is simply untrue. There is only one side of the story with contradictions, and that is the media's narrative. What the kids said happened is verified entirely by the full video evidence.
Some things are just black and white.
I said it before, I don’t blame or accuse Phillips here as what he perceived to be happening both before and during the incident. Perception is important but the kids are less at fault than anyone else in this situation.
I'm not sure about this. Philips told an accounting of events so far from reality it's hard to see it anything but a deliberate lie. Like, the basic observable facts are the exact opposite of what his statements are. This Washington Post writer lays out the timeline of some of these misleading statements.
If a teacher is secretly filming underage girls chests at school that should be grounds for immediate dismissal, being rendered unemployable in schools, and probably being put on a watch list or something. This shouldn't be in question. Right? Apparently it is.
The Supreme Court did find him guilty though, thankfully.
I could get into further detail of what I presume was going through Phillips head, both when approached the group and when he gave the interviews, but it would only be a presumption.
I will just say that I do not think Phillips lied out of malice to how the events unfolded, which is different from the first Twitter post that sparked the outraged. People are allowed to be mistaken.
Mitch McConnell has now announced that Trump will sign the spending bill without wall funding, and says he has been informed Trump will declare a national emergency for the rest. He announced this ON the Senate floor, giving tacit approval to an authoritarian power grab that bypasses an entire branch of government he is a leader of. Welcome to autocracy. It has officially arrived.
It is now not only a precedent for the next Democratic President to rule by decree of national emergency, it is incumbent upon them to do so to prevent getting steamrolled. Healthcare, the environment, gun control, all of it. If this is the game we are going to play, then Democrats better wake up and decide to play it when they return to Executive power. Because at the moment, the legislative branch is about to be rendered obsolete. This is how democracies die. This is a military construction project on domestic soil that would literally have to SEIZE land to be completed. Anyone want to tell me how this comports with supposedly "conservative" principles of limited government??
Mitch McConnell has now announced that Trump will sign the spending bill without wall funding, and says he has been informed Trump will declare a national emergency for the rest. He announced this ON the Senate floor, giving tacit approval to an authoritarian power grab that bypasses an entire branch of government he is a leader of. Welcome to autocracy. It has officially arrived.
It is now not only a precedent for the next Democratic President to rule by decree of national emergency, it is incumbent upon them to do so to prevent getting steamrolled. Healthcare, the environment, gun control, all of it. If this is the game we are going to play, then Democrats better wake up and decide to play it when they return to Executive power. Because at the moment, the legislative branch is about to be rendered obsolete. This is how democracies die. This is a military construction project on domestic soil that would literally have to SEIZE land to be completed. Anyone want to tell me how this comports with supposedly "conservative" principles of limited government??
I can still see Trump pulling a 180. There are enough bots in his twitter feed telling him not to sign it and Ann C telling him the National Emergency won’t work.
We’ll see what Fox News says tonight on it. By 7:30 he’ll be tweeting about not signing it after “an extensive review.”
Comments
I think this is the best result. If we can barely even agree what happened, much less how bad it was, imposing a formal punishment on children would be far too rash. This entire controversy has been in a fuzzy gray area since the beginning, and things have only gotten fuzzier since then. You don't exact punishments in the absence of clarity.
Ok what about the civil lawsuits the maga kid is making? No punishments there either right.
Nick Sandmann’s lawyers are seeking get rich quick money from 50 Celebrities, Media Outlets for “avalanche of false accusations, false portrayals, and cyberbullying”
Edit: @smeagolheart
I seem to have forgotten to use the quote function. This comment is in regards to your comment about the MAGA hat kid...
Yeah, I think they could make millions just hosting seminars on how NOT to do damage control!
What happened is clear and there's really no grey area. Almost all of the media ran with some hit piece against teens because they dislike their political leanings and they don't do legitimate journalism anymore, said some pretty awful things about them in the social media sphere, and they didn't get away with it this time because of ordinary people on social media basically all calling them out. Kids did nothing wrong, got slandered by the media because they're not in the business of truth, end story, roll credits.
Been saying for years the media is one big machine that pushes the same DNC endorsed narrative and don't see how that's really deniable seeing as how every single one of them who touched the story got the same set of facts wrong that confirms the same set of liberal biases.
This only *was* a story because they were wearing MAGA hats in the first place.
Would you say the MAGA kid should sue the media as a deterrent then? These kinds of lawsuits just strike me as get-rich-quick schemes for the most part. Maybe I should head down to Washington and get oppressed. Probably a quicker way to retirement than what I'm doing now...
The media is not a DNC machine. This is not correct at all.
Why would the media give credence to Republican lies all the time if they were in it for the DNC? For example the media, of which Fox News is a member by the way, are pushing lies and conspiracy theories and distortions of the Green New Deal from Republicans. Mainstream media is like "Well Trump says it's this even though it doesn't say that so the truth must be somewhere in the middle!" They constantly go out of their way to give legitimacy to right wing pundits who are almost always lying. They bring on a scientist and some goofy pundit and pretend like they both know what they are talking about when it comes to climate science. No, they have
Why would the DNC media give Howard Schultz a townhall? When he's only going to siphon DNC votes?
The only media that is an arm of a political party is FOX NEWS and it's an arm of the Republican party. It is 100%. State News. Take a look at Fox News, take a look at Trump's twitter feed. They parrot each other. They reinforce each other. They get their talking points from each other. Trump only appears on Fox News 41 times as of Jan 2019 since he was President, he almost never appears on legitimate new organizations. Trump also talks to Hannity all the time every day.
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/387535-trump-hannity-often-speak-several-times-a-day-report
Ugghhh, Hannity is a hack with an IQ of about 85. He's right up there with Levin and Savage on my list of jackasses I never listen to. I've never watched Coulter but from what I've seen I'm pretty sure she'd be on my list too. Rush Limbaugh is at least intelligent and entertaining, although his sycophantic worship of Trump made me ditch his ass too. I wish some of you folks could hear the more moderate conservatives on the radio here in Detroit on WJR. You'd be surprised by how different real conservatives are from these morons...
Actually, the lawyer is saying “do not destroy anything related to this.”
He WAS slandered by more than enough people. Saying stuff like “That kid has a punchable face” should have consequences. And want to know something? A quick apology once all the facts came out would probably have been suffice.
This isn’t a get rich quick mechanic. It’s holding people accountable for their actions which has caused harm.
So the next time a quick video of a kid wearing something that people don’t like emerges, people will actually think twice about posting shit they know nothing about especially if you have a net presence reach that can help push a false narrative
It's only the current toxic social-media environment that allows this kind of shitstorm. Do we really want to set the precedent that a bunch of yahoos posting on Facebook or Twitter can make somebody an instant millionaire? Don't we have enough ambulance chasers already???
So how do we make it less toxic if not by holding people accountable? Twitter isn’t going to enforce it. Why would they? They’re make more money the more people use thier service.
But besides the severity of the situations, I see nothing different here with Sandy Hook families and Alex Jones.
A false narrative was spread negatively impacting a person’s life. The people spreading that narrative, especially the ones with reach should be held accountable for it especially when they had time (24hrs after the real story broke) to make amends and they refused.
Still, @Balrog99 has a point. This kind of lawsuit can be open to abuse, though I'm not sure it would be frequent enough to generate any real industry on the scale of personal injury law agencies (which, frankly, are scumbags across the board, regardless of the merit of any individual's personal injury lawsuit). I think it would really depend on exactly what damages these kids suffered specifically--and even then, you'd still have to establish that the media behaved recklessly.
Again, I think this entire affair is fuzzy at best. There's not sufficiently strong grounds to justify punishing either the kids or media figures.
No. It wasnt nearly as open-close. I think @semiticgod is spot on. There are problems with both the details of the situation (Conflicting reports) and biases permeating both liberal sources and conservative sources which make it really hard to get close to the truth of the matter.
The best we can do is collectively shrug, and move on.
No there isn’t. All video evidence shows that the kids were telling the truth the entire time. There is nothing conflicting in their version of events. People still cling to the “conflicting reports” because they do not want to be wrong.
I said it before, I don’t blame or accuse Phillips here as what he perceived to be happening both before and during the incident. Perception is important but the kids are less at fault than anyone else in this situation.
Millions of $$$ in damages though? He got insulted and it wasn't in private like it would have been years ago. Whoop de doo... I was insulted and bullied in the schoolyard daily because I had glasses back when I was in grade school. Maybe I should sue the school system or the state government for not protecting my 'feelings' enough. Come on people, this is a joke! Internet threats are too easy. If you want to put a stop to them, prosecute the assholes as criminals. You don't have to throw them in jail, just fine the assholes personally and dont let them hide behind 'press' credentials unless they hold to journalistic standards. Problem fucking solved!
Edit: Personally, if somebody informed me that my daughter was bullying someone on the internet there'd be Hell to pay for her. However, even the biggest asshole in the country would be pissed if he got fined $1k for his/her daughter or son's cyberbullying...
Perhaps they didn't feel like it. Sounds pretty much like anybody these days...
I have sympathy for the idea that the kids have been wronged and should seek restitution to deter similar coverage in the future, but I'm not convinced that a legal suit will achieve that. In an adversarial court situation it's inevitable that everybody's actions will be painted in the worst possible way, so it wouldn't be a healing process for anybody.
I don't think it would be easy to prove negligence to a criminal standard on the part of the media, so if I had been involved in the affair I most certainly would not want to participate in a controversial legal case. I can though see value in an open discussion of the underlying issues in the case - like the extent to which private individuals should be subject to media scrutiny, the way in which laws cover social media and the extent to which the requirement to investigate the truth should prohibit off the cuff comments on developing situations. I think that discussion would be much better done not in a adversarial court situation though ...
Incidentally, I was a bit taken aback by the above report of the Diocesan investigation - which didn't interview either of the 2 people most central to the affair. I'm not intending to cast doubt on the results of the investigation, but I would say that the process seems dubious to me. I can't help being reminded of the Kavanaugh investigation, but (unlike that) if this incident does eventually end up in court the principals will most certainly have to testify and any apparent lies told will be used against them.
Because phillips walked up to him. The kid had no idea what was going on or why he was singled out. If you look at one of the far view videos, you'll see that Phillips had a clear path on the left. He walked over to the kid who was sticking out a bit instead.
And no one is saying he is getting millions in damages. In fact, he really hasn't brought a civil case forward. Just told people not to destroy evidence pertaining to it. https://www.rt.com/usa/450806-sandmann-maga-lawsuit-dc-rally/
Imagine if Jenny McCarthy was actually held accountable for all her anti-vaxxer comments on social media. She isn't a doctor, scientist, or anything pertaining to medicine except being a mother, yet she and others were able to convince people not to vax their kids over "parental choice" and spreading unproven rumours. There have been outbreaks, real medical emergencies that have cost millions of dollars because of this.
With these kids, you could say that they were slandered because they were wearing MAGA hats. Trayvon Martin was slandered for wearing a hoodie. But those kids only got Slandered for a short time. Tayvon Martin was killed. One could argue that Trayvon got far worse out of the deal. Oh, they got called some names. Boo-hoo. They took no worse harm than that. It could have been a LOT worse.
Meanwhile, speaking of Penalties, ICE and its contractors have been found to have thousands of violations, but they have only enacted penalties in 2 cases (Source: Daily Kos) I find this quite disgusting, and it makes me sad. Apparently, the Trump Administration was looking into putting up these children who crossed the border at two decomissioned Air Force bases that are a nightmare, Super Fund sites with heavy levels of lead, arsenic and many more. And kids, being small, are more easily affected by these contaminants. They have since rethought that, apparently.
Today, though, there was a near-riot on the Mexican side of the border, where Migrants who have been waiting well over a week to cross the bridge to America got riled up from waiting so long... And here's the video I saw.
Trayvon was murdered and Zimmerman got away with it because of Florida laws. That’s what happens when you let gun lobbies dictate legislation.
Central Park 5 could have gone after Trump and the newspaper but was probably glad they were no longer household names.
I think it is a bit more complex than just being glad they were no longer household names.
After the longer video with the Covington kids the entire media backed off very quickly, partially because the parents of Nick Sandmann were able to pay a PR firm and initiate multiple lawsuits. This takes money.
Both Trayvon and the Central Park 5 had too little money plus the wrong color.
As Deltago pointed out this is simply untrue. There is only one side of the story with contradictions, and that is the media's narrative. What the kids said happened is verified entirely by the full video evidence.
Some things are just black and white.
I'm not sure about this. Philips told an accounting of events so far from reality it's hard to see it anything but a deliberate lie. Like, the basic observable facts are the exact opposite of what his statements are. This Washington Post writer lays out the timeline of some of these misleading statements.
The Supreme Court did find him guilty though, thankfully.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/high-school-teacher-camera-pen-privacy-supreme-court-1.5017266
I will just say that I do not think Phillips lied out of malice to how the events unfolded, which is different from the first Twitter post that sparked the outraged. People are allowed to be mistaken.
It is now not only a precedent for the next Democratic President to rule by decree of national emergency, it is incumbent upon them to do so to prevent getting steamrolled. Healthcare, the environment, gun control, all of it. If this is the game we are going to play, then Democrats better wake up and decide to play it when they return to Executive power. Because at the moment, the legislative branch is about to be rendered obsolete. This is how democracies die. This is a military construction project on domestic soil that would literally have to SEIZE land to be completed. Anyone want to tell me how this comports with supposedly "conservative" principles of limited government??
I can still see Trump pulling a 180. There are enough bots in his twitter feed telling him not to sign it and Ann C telling him the National Emergency won’t work.
We’ll see what Fox News says tonight on it. By 7:30 he’ll be tweeting about not signing it after “an extensive review.”
But now it's a scheduled national emergency.