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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    "Warren has said she was proud of her Native American heritage and that she listed herself as a minority in the legal directory from 1986 through 1995, because she was hoping to connect with “people like me.’’ The directory, however, did not list her as someone with Native American heritage. It simply said “minority.’’ "

    There is nothing wrong with attempting to reconnect with a rediscovered ancestry.

    I would personally look at how indigenous tribes, especially the one she claims to be related to, accept her claims of heritage more than what other politicans think about it.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    So Warren is 1/64 and the chief of the Cherokee is 1/32. She's half as Native American as the chief of the Cherokee. Are both of them Native American? Are neither of them?

    Or does that just happen to be the cutoff point where you're not allowed to say you're Native American? On what grounds?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Apparently the military of Myanmar paved the way for the Rohingya genocide by using Facebook to spread misinformation from sham accounts. They would spread fake stories about violence by the Rohingya and post pictures of corpses that supposedly were the victims of Rohingya terrorism.

    I've never understood this kind of mentality. If you have to flat-out make shit up to prove an argument, wouldn't you at some point realize that the argument was wrong?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    edited October 2018


    I've never understood this kind of mentality. If you have to flat-out make shit up to prove an argument, wouldn't you at some point realize that the argument was wrong?

    No, because these days most people hold their political beliefs with the same fervor and intensity as religious beliefs. You cannot use logic to convince someone else of the existence--or non-existence--of God (by whatever name you wish to use) just like it is becoming nigh-impossible to use logic to bring someone to the point where they change their mind on a political position. Any evidence which does not align with their worldview is automatically discounted as incorrect or wrong. Fabricating news items is merely another facet of this and is designed to justify whatever decision has already been made.

    re: Senator Warren....there are far too many people who are far too concerned with ethnicity and/or genetic heritage these days; those things are irrelevant. Well, at least they *should* be irrelevant--in my view, we are all equal and so, to me, no one should have any advantage--or disadvantage--based on something so trivial. Then again, I view things differently than most people.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    edited October 2018
    The whole argument about this is silly, really, if Warren were Trump and did the exact same things in his life we'd all be in agreement that he was deceptive and also probably a bad person for doing it.

    1/32 would be the minimal qualification under 1940's rules. After that, 1/16th is the least amount you can have to qualify. Some need direct documentation of ancestry, which she also doesn't have.

    So, even if we give the most favorable possible interpretation to her results, and the most generous context possible, she's not Native American, a minority, or Harvard's first woman of color. She used the mantle of such to better her chances of employment. That is all.

    no one should have any advantage--or disadvantage--based on something so trivial. Then again, I view things differently than most people.

    I agree, but that's not the world we live in, or the world the modern Democrat Party is creating. A minority ethnicity is an employment advantage and an educational advantage on a structural level, and when the Obama's of the world are in office, well, your race and religion will be the determining factor for top level positions.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964

    So Warren is 1/64 and the chief of the Cherokee is 1/32. She's half as Native American as the chief of the Cherokee. Are both of them Native American? Are neither of them?

    Or does that just happen to be the cutoff point where you're not allowed to say you're Native American? On what grounds?

    It's the George Washington's Axe argument. If you replace the handle, is it still George Washington's Axe? What about of you also replace the axe head?

    My understanding is that the tribes specify how much of a percentage of native American blood you need to be considered a part of the tribe.

    So Trump said he's not going to pay the charity. Shocking. He didn't pay the veterans charity either when he promised to do that.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2018
    She never brought this up at all. Nor did she ever claim any tribal identity (as her video today makes clear). The side that is "not concerned with identity politics" are the ones who made it an issue and given rise to the"scandal". For people who claim not to care about this kind of stuff, they sure cared about it a metric shit-ton when it came to Elizabeth Warren. The right will play the identity politics game when it suits them yet base their entire message around the idea that no one should care about it.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176

    The whole argument about this is silly, really, if Warren were Trump and did the exact same things in his life we'd all be in agreement that he was deceptive and also probably a bad person for doing it.

    1/32 would be the minimal qualification under 1940's rules. After that, 1/16th is the least amount you can have to qualify. Some need direct documentation of ancestry, which she also doesn't have.

    So, even if we give the most favorable possible interpretation to her results, and the most generous context possible, she's not Native American, a minority, or Harvard's first woman of color. She used the mantle of such to better her chances of employment. That is all.


    no one should have any advantage--or disadvantage--based on something so trivial. Then again, I view things differently than most people.

    I agree, but that's not the world we live in, or the world the modern Democrat Party is creating. A minority ethnicity is an employment advantage and an educational advantage on a structural level, and when the Obama's of the world are in office, well, your race and religion will be the determining factor for top level positions.


    What about jews who come to US fleeing ww2 and become richer than the average american in half of a generation? Or east asians?

    Affirmative actions should't exist as i've said.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited October 2018


    I agree, but that's not the world we live in, or the world the modern Democrat Party is creating. A minority ethnicity is an employment advantage and an educational advantage on a structural level, and when the Obama's of the world are in office, well, your race and religion will be the determining factor for top level positions.


    Right. It's such an advantage to be a Person of Color in America. Consult the ratio of wealth, government, unemployment, and even access to the ability to vote between being white and a POC would prove your point /s

    She never brought this up at all. Nor did she ever claim any tribal identity (as her video today makes clear). The side that is "not concerned with identity politics" are the ones who made it an issue and given rise to the"scandal". For people who claim not to care about this kind of stuff, they sure cared about it a metric shit-ton when it came to Elizabeth Warren. The right will play the identity politics game when it suits them yet base their entire message around the idea that no one should care about it.

    Personally, I think she was kindof dumb to play back at Trump over this. She doesnt really gain much, except the *hope* that this wont be used against her as effectively in 2020. That said, I totally agree that for all the "Holier than thou" speech we get from Conservatives on identity politics, they do it JUST as much as anyone else (See how they're weaponized aggrievement in US politics).
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    90k wiped from voting rolls in Nevada between 2016-2017. Republican Secretary of State claims they moved.

    “Our experts, reviewing these lists, have found that the overwhelming majority of voters who have supposedly moved out of state or out of their home counties have, in fact, not moved an inch,” the press release notes. “most remain at their original registration address.”

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/at-least-90000-voters-purged-from-nevada-voter-rolls-voting-rights-group-claims/
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    In North Dakota, Native Americans tend to vote Democrat. So the Republican State Legislature made it almost impossible for them to vote.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMYnzvrMqhE

    North Carolina asks for $929M in Hurricane Matthew recovery, Trump administration offers $6M
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-administration-rejects-99-hurricane-matthew-n-funds-article-1.3156282?fbclid=IwAR07BXoI0-UZXFFC4TIxi6bCla3xo2oMv3NKmBm9iEC_QLJ7S8vC69B5zHU

    Budget Deficit Jumps Nearly 17% in 2018
    WASHINGTON — The federal budget deficit swelled to $779 billion in fiscal year 2018, the Treasury Department said on Monday, driven in large part by a sharp decline in corporate tax revenues after the Trump tax cuts took effect.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/us/politics/federal-deficit-2018-trump-tax-cuts.html?fbclid=IwAR1szSNy-vUF4Qn-wGXKKEMCJ9N2ZsvbgdWBZt_ltPWQjxA_AcpMvqZqM44

    Surveillance video shows Lakeland city commissioner shooting alleged shoplifter
    https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/Surveillance-video-shows-Lakeland-city-commissioner-shooting-alleged-shoplifter_172671529?fbclid=IwAR0CcnT2XWyhGeY-BWTO4EGdDhdB5xFbLtWWWTW9pDSg7nzR5HFNoujrlDc
    (Warning, this video made me sick to my stomach. You may find similar difficulty in watching it.)

    Regretful Trump voters tell CNN why they’ve turned on ‘the dictator in White House’: ‘All he’s done is surround himself with crooks’
    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/regretful-trump-voters-tell-cnn-theyve-turned-dictator-white-house-hes-done-surround-crooks/?fbclid=IwAR0GKc3b7yjds3_-7EYsmCaS1GQwGXOa6FC7De2fzmrV8MD2fGQifzDM_e8

    Mike Huckabee Endorses Biblical Slavery For Criminals
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/10/mike-huckabee-endorses-biblical-slavery-for-criminals/?fbclid=IwAR0gcHaCIiHePI5-2I_oDn8GMB81EuynSeTRwXsQww81DKdYyYPeyVrMEqc

    ALERT: “Nearly one in 10 vote-by-mail ballots have been rejected by Gwinnett County election officials, alarming voting rights groups.”
    High rate of absentee ballots thrown out in Gwinnett
    https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/high-rate-absentee-ballots-thrown-out-gwinnett/azdOsCxX2X6mT8PTrgZlJI/?fbclid=IwAR28EbujJgzv4X45q-CQIlb5DQw-p-9md7jDtzkakjc7STi6dUluLxpwHVc
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Just when you thought the Catholic church couldn't sink any lower:
    Child-abusing cardinal says that abortion is worse than child abuse.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Well obviously every child aborted is a child he cannot rape.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    LadyRhian said:

    Democratic Aide arrested Advocating for Voting Rights

    This issue has already been resolved for 2018. Texas Secretary of State Rolando Pablos has decided that "no change of address form or statement of residence will be required prior to voting" and that election officials will be present to make sure no student is restricted from voting. The problem still needs to be fixed for 2020, but for now every student who is registered to vote will be allowed to vote.

    The easiest long-term fix would be to construct a post office station with box numbers then assign that address to a precinct. That is how it worked at the university I attended.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Mathsorcerer This isn't the first time they've tried to prevent these students from voting. Students are allowed to vote where they live, especially if they live on campus. But because this is a compus with a school population that is 80% Black in Texas, the county keeps trying to make it as hard as possible for them to vote. :P
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    I don't disagree with that assessment. However, the SecState for Texas has already solved the problem for 2018 and I presented an easy solution moving forward in the future, so it shouldn't be a problem any more. If it continues to be a problem...well, it isn't my fault if people fail to follow my sage advice.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    "“Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong,” said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. “It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven.”"

    lol. Accurate though.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/10/16/cherokee-nation-slams-warren-dna-results/1656463002/
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    It seems like this is becoming an even greater go to for the Republicans. Not allowing people who are likely to vote Democrat to vote, or making extremely difficult for them to vote. Closing polling places, not allowing people without a street address to vote, and so on.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited October 2018
    LadyRhian said:

    It seems like this is becoming an even greater go to for the Republicans. Not allowing people who are likely to vote Democrat to vote, or making extremely difficult for them to vote. Closing polling places, not allowing people without a street address to vote, and so on.

    It goes back to at least 2000 when Gore "lost" Florida by ~350 votes there was evidence of at least 50k votes that were not counted.

    The GOP doesn't like Democracy because they can't win on the issues the only way to win is to cheat. The only way for them to get close is confusing their Fox News watchers on culture warz (omg buttery males!, kneeling NFL players!, the war on Christmas!, gay wedding cakes!)
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited October 2018

    "“Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong,” said Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr. “It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven.”"

    lol. Accurate though.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/10/16/cherokee-nation-slams-warren-dna-results/1656463002/

    Wonder what they think about the Pochohontus nickname and when Trump called for the DNA test. It was after all his idea, she didn't come up with the idea.

    But with Trump, as usual the truth doesn't matter. Trump lied for years about Obama's birth certificate and when he put it out he didn't stop lying or, you know, apologize and admit he'd been lying. Same thing with this "Indian DNA test" conspiracy theory it won't stop him from lying.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    BillyYank said:

    Just when you thought the Catholic church couldn't sink any lower:
    Child-abusing cardinal says that abortion is worse than child abuse.

    I can see their reasoning here. If you believe that a fetus is human life, then abortion is child murder. Whether murder or abuse is worse varies from person to person.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    BillyYank said:

    Just when you thought the Catholic church couldn't sink any lower:
    Child-abusing cardinal says that abortion is worse than child abuse.

    I can see their reasoning here. If you believe that a fetus is human life, then abortion is child murder. Whether murder or abuse is worse varies from person to person.
    The reason I can have a legitimate discussion about abortion with @ThacoBell is because I know his opposition comes from deeply rooted personal experience and I know he supports government assistance for low-income children (or at least isn't adamantly opposed to it). I don't think an abortion is ever something to celebrate. It's just something I believe a woman should have a right to choose to do. I find the term "get it taken care of" extremely distasteful. I simply do not feel I have a right to tell a woman to grow another human being inside her for 9 months.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    edited October 2018
    The ACLU apparantly wants Harvard to discriminate against Asians because it would benefit white students for them to not racially discriminate. The ACLU has become an absolute joke. Both Harvard and Yale are under investigation by the Justice Department for discriminating against Asian Americans in their admissions, being the most qualified candidates academically but also admitted at lower rates.

    It's funny how whites have become so hated on the left that the mere implication that a ruling or policy would benefit them is seen as an argument against it. God forbid!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ACLU/status/1051626960537808898

    Some background info on the actual trial going on today can be found here. I think proving intent is going to be difficult for them, but in my opinion it's clear that if they are the most qualified candidates yet admitted at the lowest rate, even when factoring for other factors like legacies and athletics, that there is some discrimination there.

    The real problem, is this social justice obessesion with using race rather than merit as a factor in boosting your chances of success.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/harvard-admissions-lawsuit-trial-asian-american-discrimination-reports.html
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    These issues are easy to fix. Remove all personal information from the applications and assign a number to them.
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    deltago said:

    These issues are easy to fix. Remove all personal information from the applications and assign a number to them.

    Stop using standardized test scores, like the PSAT mentioned in the article, in college admissions decisions. Performance on such tests correlates with household income, not academic performance in college.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    So, time for another Facebook News Download...

    Members of Patriot Prayer Brought Loaded Firearms to Roof Before August Protest
    https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2018/10/15/23710274/members-of-patriot-prayer-brought-loaded-firearms-to-roof-before-august-protest?fbclid=IwAR1yCgt3t4j4aGQx6ogAdPLaw7LQpBwhoTFkkHTEiS8nOSO7lCw8CET-3ns

    DonaldDaters, the dating app for Trump supporters, leaks all users' private information on first day
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/10/16/1804777/-DonaldDaters-the-dating-app-for-Trump-supporters-leaks-all-users-private-information-on-first-day?fbclid=IwAR3FER0-zKfspM-JIJl9scRzE4y_KbifT66nFmwVL9CaGRlQ7BelrjP65Zc

    Forget Elizabeth Warren’s DNA Test. Never Forget That Melania and Donald Trump Are Birthers
    https://www.theroot.com/forget-elizabeth-warrens-dna-test-never-forget-that-me-1829751688

    Trump Says Sears Was Mismanaged. Mnuchin Was on Its Board for Years
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/trump-says-sears-was-mismanaged-steven-mnuchin-was-on-its-board?fbclid=IwAR0dxv_m2wTRmdgrkizqIOq8uPcbv9Ai9VfXNOUiyI3FYcO08NeghEMwlUI

    For those who think the FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) only works against Christians:
    Atheist Group Targets Government Endorsement of Islam
    https://christianaction.org/atheist-group-targets-government-endorsement-of-islam/?fbclid=IwAR1mByL0BxzsJAC022hfFh6DrRJd1c4FpezcRNbjJlp3SP9LgJeg8pRBd6A

    And two items of more general Historical interest:
    How Sears mail-order catalogs undermined Jim Crow racism
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-sears-history-racism-jim-crow-20181016-story.html

    How Onna-Bugeisha, Feudal Japan's Women Samurai, Were Erased From History
    https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/a383aj/female-samurai-onna-bugeisha-japan?fbclid=IwAR16epGRCed0UdhliIAfZCmHcWhpyeV7BJIdCaGz0K6Ia7mBM2w6GlOyJrc&utm_campaign=sharebutton
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    And now Democrats are reframing the Healthcare debate with the single-payer "Medicare for all".

    Democrats are embracing a radical change to US healthcare, and it could be the defining political fight for years to come
    https://www.businessinsider.com/medicare-for-all-democrats-bernie-sanders-trump-details-2018-9?fbclid=IwAR3Vbez_rOOHyGXl3T0iIIBGYsp7YL-FCHmibFkU2-t9YE41N9Ofzxhm2do

    Tariffs having a high impact on Farmers
    Study shows impact of tariffs on farmers
    http://www.hpj.com/ag_news/study-shows-impact-of-tariffs-on-farmers/article_392a82a6-9866-5da7-aca9-4960749bf46c.html?fbclid=IwAR0Q0JIEOOxcBIbLOaQpbXjmxdgLfv228_T59Ug36EOKYyX6ZePRegQdbSo

    ‘What gives?’ MSNBC analyst explains why deficit exploded under Trump
    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/10/gives-msnbc-analyst-explains-deficit-exploded-trump/?fbclid=IwAR2V6jcUEScEl4jF0Z1bH8a-koXuUzZf2DiIawcBl6NjMHkOur2AaEqpjbI#.W8Yt8Ap1Wn0.twitter
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Wow

    FBI raids San Juan government building

    "Tuesday's raid was related to an ongoing investigation into whether the mayor's office and other city officials had shown favoritism when the city agreed to a contract with the company BR Solutions for $4.7 million over two years."

    BS Solutions is a consulting firm. How the government can consider favouritism to a consulting firm is absurd.

    This is a political attack full stop. Even the attire of bulletproof vests (while raiding a government building) is absurd. For reference, when the FBI raided Cohen, they were only wearing field jackets. I sure hope someone can call out this BS.
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