It's clear that some people who post here care a lot about this upcoming game and how it will turn out.
It's also clear that some people who post here care a lot about the legacy of Baldur's Gate and whether or not it's losing its established values or identity.
I'm sure that there's quite a bit of overlap between those two groups, but if you happen to belong to one and not the other, to you one of those things will matter and the other will not—to state the obvious. It's easy to see how that could affect your view of this game, and how your judgment of it could hold a different emotional charge to someone who might be in the "opposite" position. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't try to pretend that the other position is illegitimate or wrong. It's all down to subjective values and preferences.
As someone who belongs to the latter group and not the prior one, I'm going to reveal something about myself that I don't think I've ever shared on this forum just to give a little insight into where I'm coming from. I consider it one of my ultra-long-term life goals as a game developer to recreate both games in an open-source environment, fix all of their outstanding issues, and preserve the content in a state that's as close to vanilla as possible, but with additional optional modernization settings (such as AI-upscaled backgrounds/sprites/UI, quick loot, and so on). Imagine the EEs, but much closer to vanilla, with a lot less bugs (sorry but it's true), and with a lot more customization/modernization options.
Now, I may be a hopeless dreamer but I'm not completely naive, so I do realize that this is an insanely work-intensive project that I might never actually get done—not alone, anyway—but regardless, I'm going to keep working towards it. It's not an exaggeration to say that my entire life revolves around my fascination with Baldur's Gate, and that's probably not going to change at this point. And while it would be nice to one day play the game in the form that I had envisioned it (which is of course BioWare's vision, mine would just be the framing around it), it's not just me and the other fans who I want to make it for. The main reason I'm doing this is to create the best possible version of something that I love to leave for posterity. So that people many years into the future who appreciate old games may stumble upon Baldur's Gate and play a version of it that would truly represent the game's original vision but without all the headache that playing vanilla entails. (As much as I love vanilla, it is very buggy and difficult to control. Not to even mention the resolution woes.)
The only reason I'm explaining all of this is to give a better sense of how much the legacy of a game can matter to a person. I realize I'm pretty unconventional in this regard (to put it in a way that's flattering to myself), but I think this is still worth explaining because some people may not realize that something which appears as trivial from a wider cultural viewpoint as the legacy of an old game can actually be pretty damn close to the top of some people's value heaps.
Are you going to recreate sprites? I mean THE long lost assets? Oh my lord, please be my guest and do so!
@Cahir While that's admittedly an impossible dream, you're furthering his point. Some people care so much about BG's legacy, they'd be willing to recreate it given the resources to do so.
It's clear that some people who post here care a lot about this upcoming game and how it will turn out.
It's also clear that some people who post here care a lot about the legacy of Baldur's Gate and whether or not it's losing its established values or identity.
I'm sure that there's quite a bit of overlap between those two groups, but if you happen to belong to one and not the other, to you one of those things will matter and the other will not—to state the obvious. It's easy to see how that could affect your view of this game, and how your judgment of it could hold a different emotional charge to someone who might be in the "opposite" position. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't try to pretend that the other position is illegitimate or wrong. It's all down to subjective values and preferences.
As someone who belongs to the latter group and not the prior one, I'm going to reveal something about myself that I don't think I've ever shared on this forum just to give a little insight into where I'm coming from. I consider it one of my ultra-long-term life goals as a game developer to recreate both games in an open-source environment, fix all of their outstanding issues, and preserve the content in a state that's as close to vanilla as possible, but with additional optional modernization settings (such as AI-upscaled backgrounds/sprites/UI, quick loot, and so on). Imagine the EEs, but much closer to vanilla, with a lot less bugs (sorry but it's true), and with a lot more customization/modernization options.
Now, I may be a hopeless dreamer but I'm not completely naive, so I do realize that this is an insanely work-intensive project that I might never actually get done—not alone, anyway—but regardless, I'm going to keep working towards it. It's not an exaggeration to say that my entire life revolves around my fascination with Baldur's Gate, and that's probably not going to change at this point. And while it would be nice to one day play the game in the form that I had envisioned it (which is of course BioWare's vision, mine would just be the framing around it), it's not just me and the other fans who I want to make it for. The main reason I'm doing this is to create the best possible version of something that I love to leave for posterity. So that people many years into the future who appreciate old games may stumble upon Baldur's Gate and play a version of it that would truly represent the game's original vision but without all the headache that playing vanilla entails. (As much as I love vanilla, it is very buggy and difficult to control. Not to even mention the resolution woes.)
The only reason I'm explaining all of this is to give a better sense of how much the legacy of a game can matter to a person. I realize I'm pretty unconventional in this regard (to put it in a way that's flattering to myself), but I think this is still worth explaining because some people may not realize that something which appears as trivial from a wider cultural viewpoint as the legacy of an old game can actually be pretty damn close to the top of some people's value heaps.
Are you going to recreate sprites? I mean THE long lost assets? Oh my lord, please be my guest and do so!
No, my plan is to use an upscaler AI like Waifu2x for all of the graphical assets in the game and maybe employ an artist (or multiple artists) to smooth off the edges (figuratively speaking) wherever needed. Luckily, time is on my side in this regard, because the longer I wait, the better upscaling technologies will get. Here's a small test I've done earlier with a few item icons: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/69828/hq-item-icons-work-in-progress
Don't want to derail this thread though, so please direct any further questions/comments about this to the thread I've linked above or to my PM inbox.
People on message boards are not the causal fans. Your casual fan base is not paying attention yet.
I'm on message boards and I'm most definitely a casual fan. Just because I choose to not engage in fruitless ranting (edit: obviously my personal opinion) doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I just choose to not get emotionally engaged in something as trivial (to me) as a game. I doubt I'm the only one like this. Another example, I lurked this forum for years before registering, I've been a member for 5 years or whatever, I'm even a mod here, but I would still probably lable myself as a pretty casual BG player.
Point being; the world is not black and white and most people are to complex to be easily categorized into just one or another group "pro or against", "TB or Twtp", "hater or fan boi" etc and there's probably a lot more people paying attention then there is who engage in actively in the communities/forums.
If the actual games official message boards are not proof enough then I can't help you.
There's no evidence that a larger number of fans are upset. You can go to the Larian BG3 forum right now and see kanistha's post with very few people actually voicing his RtwP or bust argument. Most are like "great idea but i don't require it", or just outright rejecting his suggestion.
Stop conflating your views and the views of a few other gamers with some widely held backlash. There's been no sizable backlash to BG3 so far.
Check the Steam forum which isn't just a bunch of fanboys salivating over anything a company does.
What kind of numbers are we talking about here? Earlier you directed me to Larian's forums and it's literally the same names making a fuss about RtwP, with very very few others joining them. If these voices can't make themselves bigger than some obscure internet forums, that says everything about their size.
No I said official forums. I was meaning GoG and Steam where the game is being sold. And these forums were up and running before Larian has theirs up but I do understand the confusion. I was just meaning it wasn’t on places like reddit or RPGCodex that this was being discussed.
And once again, casual fans don’t even have this on their radar. None of the influencers who I follow are even talking about this game (yet). The only people who are, are Larian fans (who are hyped and have blinders on because it is Larian) and Baldur’s Gate fans (who are a mixed bag). No one is joining either chorus and that says something about the marketing of this game.
But if you want. The game play reveal video is about 10:1 on likes and dislikes. Out of people paying attention 10% aren’t satisfied with what they are seeing. Those numbers are harder to break down though on why they are disliking (or even liking) the video.
People on message boards are not the causal fans. Your casual fan base is not paying attention yet.
I'm on message boards and I'm most definitely a casual fan. Just because I choose to not engage in fruitless ranting (edit: obviously my personal opinion) doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I just choose to not get emotionally engaged in something as trivial (to me) as a game. I doubt I'm the only one like this. Another example, I lurked this forum for years before registering, I've been a member for 5 years or whatever, I'm even a mod here, but I would still probably lable myself as a pretty casual BG player.
Point being; the world is not black and white and most people are to complex to be easily categorized into just one or another group "pro or against", "TB or Twtp", "hater or fan boi" etc and there's probably a lot more people paying attention then there is who engage in actively in the communities/forums.
Totally respect and understand that but my point has always been keep those who are emotionally engaged on your side while developing a game or any product for that matter. Being dismissive of their concerns (or without offering reassurances) is also not good practise.
WotC (not really Larian, but they’re getting the brunt of it) failed to do that.
Larian will have a Reddit AMA next week, the first week after they returned from their PAX travel.
They showed the gameplay not for 10 mins, but for nearly 1.5 hours.
Why do people think the people behind BG3 are dismissive of concerns? Explaining something wouldn't be done/included/re-worked and offering an alternative is not a dismissal. It's honesty and clarity. It's impossible to fulfil every feature request.
And once again, casual fans don’t even have this on their radar. None of the influencers who I follow are even talking about this game (yet). The only people who are, are Larian fans (who are hyped and have blinders on because it is Larian) and Baldur’s Gate fans (who are a mixed bag). No one is joining either chorus and that says something about the marketing of this game.
Of the few gaming-news-type content creators that I follow, Laymen Gaming are the only ones that I heard talk about BG3 since the gameplay reveal, and out of them Sam in particular is rather excited about BG3. Though it is also the case that they have noticed—and mentioned in their discussion—that many fans of the original games were dissatisfied with BG3 looking like it has too little in common with the original games. They presented this view in what I thought was a fairly neutral way.
@JuliusBorisov Ive always found Sven a little bit hard to relate to in all honesty but after watching that gameplay reveal and seeing him make a total mess of his first attempt I’ve really warmed to him. His reaction when he accidentally hit his own party member was hilarious and he came across as really down to earth and really happy to show off the game. I am definitely happy that I got to see his personality and it was very refreshing. Looked like he really cares about the game and the fans.
Larian will have a Reddit AMA next week, the first week after they returned from their PAX travel.
They showed the gameplay not for 10 mins, but for nearly 1.5 hours.
Why do people think the people behind BG3 are dismissive of concerns? Explaining something wouldn't be done/included/re-worked and offering an alternative is not a dismissal. It's honesty and clarity. It's impossible to fulfil every feature request.
Everyone’s biggest concern is the title. That concern has been dismissed up until the latest gazette where there was one line addressing it.
Most of the other concerns (such as RtwP) wouldn’t have been a concern if it wasn’t for the title.
@deltago I think since the gameplay reveal that they have been pretty informative. Lots of info has been coming out. The statement that I saw yesterday was great and also hinted at links to Baldur’s Gate 1&2. I’m even more convinced now that Bhaal is gonna play a part in this game
deltago I think since the gameplay reveal that they have been pretty informative. Lots of info has been coming out. The statement that I saw yesterday was great and also hinted at links to Baldur’s Gate 1&2. I’m even more convinced now that Bhaal is gonna play a part in this game
Don’t get me wrong. It was completely informative. I broke down the gameplay here and my thoughts about it. I devoured that hint to ties to BG1&2. I am not sold on the game yet, but I am very interested in it regardless of what it is called.
I am viewing things through a marketing lens and not a gamer lens when I am talking about this.
If the actual games official message boards are not proof enough then I can't help you.
There's no evidence that a larger number of fans are upset.
If the YouTube videos are any indication, it is a small part of the fanbase that is displeased. The Opening Cinematic currently sits at 11k likes and 154 dislikes, and the World Gameplay Reveal Announcement has 21k likes and 517 dislikes.
I suspect there is a large bias there since most of those are likely to be people subscribed to Larian's YouTube channel. However, I think we'd still see many more thumbs down if the IE fanbase really had the torches and pitchforks out.
This also assumes that everyone aware of the game is watching the trailer. I never bothered to watch it, because it was already clear the game was not going to be for me before the trailer ever dropped. Statistically I CAN'T be the only one.
If the actual games official message boards are not proof enough then I can't help you.
There's no evidence that a larger number of fans are upset.
If the YouTube videos are any indication, it is a small part of the fanbase that is displeased. The Opening Cinematic currently sits at 11k likes and 154 dislikes, and the World Gameplay Reveal Announcement has 21k likes and 517 dislikes.
I suspect there is a large bias there since most of those are likely to be people subscribed to Larian's YouTube channel. However, I think we'd still see many more thumbs down if the IE fanbase really had the torches and pitchforks out.
This also assumes that everyone aware of the game is watching the trailer. I never bothered to watch it, because it was already clear the game was not going to be for me before the trailer ever dropped. Statistically I CAN'T be the only one.
Very true. I think many that have always hoped for a Baldur's Gate III sequel are in your boat.
And honestly, I agree with the "3" being a problem if it isn't actually a sequel. I think it was ridiculous to claim this is the first return to Baldur's Gate in 20 years when we have SoD. It's the kind of hype in advertising I just roll my eyes at because it's all a lie playing on people's emotions.
But at the same time, I think the purists who want the Bhaalspawn story to continue are in the minority and are out of luck in this matter anyway. What people are going to get is a Divinity: Original Sin game with D&D rules set in the Sword Coast. I think most people don't care. I have two roommates that play PnP all the time and all they care about is that it is Baldur's Gate 3 even though they barely remember 1 and 2 and don't own a single remake of an IE game or SoD. They could care less. They're just excited a AAA D&D cRPG is coming out. And I think most people are probably in that camp or Larian fans. I think most people moved on from ever getting a Baldur's Gate III as a true sequel. Even fans who have played IE games for over two decades are pretty divided on how they feel about it (as seen here in these forums).
@deltago thats funny. I have absolutely no interest in Cyber Punk. What I’ve seen so far does nothing for me personally lol but it’s just not my thing I guess.
Edit: when I say not really my thing I mean the futuristic mercenary style. It takes a lot to get me interested in those kind of games.
I thought it was going to be called Baldur’s Gate 3 The Black Hound.
the difference with Black Hound is when Black Isle was developing it, they could only use the D&D IP if they were making an Icewind Dale or Baldur’s Gate name.
This isn’t the case with Larian (actually knowing WotC, it might actually be the case).
A snippet:
"I'm just going to come right out swinging. As you guys probably already know, while most folks have enjoyed the reveal [of Baldur's Gate 3], there's been a rather vocal portion of Baldur's Gate fans who didn't feel like this looked like a true sequel. What can you say to assuage their fears that this is actually a Divinity: Original Sin game in disguise?
Matt Holland: Well, there's a few things to that. At Larian, for a very long time, we've been trying to emulate a pen and paper experience and bring it to video games. I think it's just that. If people think it looks like Divinity, it's because we're trying to make that tabletop experience that D&D, well, is.
Adam Smith: It's a continuation of what we have been doing which is to move toward a tabletop experience in a cRPG. For the people who think that it doesn't quite look like they wanted it to look or doesn't quite feel like they hoped it would, then honestly, I would just say to see more of it. I think they'll be convinced pretty quickly. The deeper we go into it, the more and more they'll feel the D&D [influence] and how it's truly the heart of it. The more they see the systems and rule set, they'll start to see we are really using that ruleset. Some of the stuff that they recognize stayed in there because it makes sense in the world. The surfaces and the environmental interactions, we've built on them but it didn't make sense to drop them just because [Baldur's Gate 3] looked like Divinity because Divinity is really good as well. It's a continuation of that but it's D&D to its core lore wise and systems wise.
If this feedback remains after the game enters into early access, would you be willing to improve some aspects to make it more visibly D&D-like?
Matt: We're always open to feedback and that's mainly why we're going into early access for but we'll always take it into consideration no matter what feedback we get.
Adam: That's exactly it. The point of early access is so people can talk to us. There's a reason we didn't release a press release or make a statement saying 'oh by the way, our combat is turn-based'. We waited until we could show it to people so they could see it and they can get the impression of how it feels. Then, as soon as they start playing it, they'll have more impressions, more opinions. That's good, I mean that helps us because we like talking to them. We like hearing from them. I really don't think we have to do cause correction. When people start playing it, they will see that it feels very D&D. They'll get it.
In previous interviews, Swen [Vincke] has said that the goal was to innovate within the RPG genre and that Larian was taking a lot of creative risks with Baldur's Gate 3. Can you point us to some examples?
Matt: I think it's just the ones you just mentioned, right? We are making some changes to the Baldur's Gate formula to more fit the fifth edition of Dungeons and Dragons and really go in that direction. I guess that's one of the bigger risks.
Adam: We're also doing the cinematic dialogues that you just saw. We're doing that for custom characters. You can be different sizes, you can play as a gnome, we have to deal with that. A lot of games that use cinematics like this give you one set character. We're giving you five, more than five, but five that we show now, plus all the custom characters and we're doing cinematics for every single line of dialogue in the game. It's massive, like you know, it's a huge thing. When we made the decision to do that, creatively, the conversation was 'well, we can't compromise on the things that we do'. We're going to push to the next-gen ideas with our visuals that cannot compromise the freedom, cannot compromise multiplayer, can't compromise any of the openness. We're doing the game that has everything that you get from the traditional isometric and we're saying that you still have that game and Larian is adding more and more stuff into it. Creatively, that's really risky but it gives us this [Baldur's Gate 3]."
Again, "everyone's biggest concern"? Is it? Who is everyone? Very few are griping about the title.
I wish you guys would just be more honest and say "My concern". You aren't speaking for a large group.
Cuts both ways.
Not really, since the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive among the community of CRPG players.
No. It has been overwhelmingly positive for Larian customers. A good majority are in wait and see.
Overwhelmingly positive would be the reactions Cyber Punk have been getting.
A good majority? Where's the evidence?
Where is yours?
Go ahead, link me the RPGCodex or Reddit threads that claim this is going to be a massive success. The only ones claiming that are those who are die hard DOS fans.
A snippet:
"I'm just going to come right out swinging. As you guys probably already know, while most folks have enjoyed the reveal [of Baldur's Gate 3], there's been a rather vocal portion of Baldur's Gate fans who didn't feel like this looked like a true sequel. What can you say to assuage their fears that this is actually a Divinity: Original Sin game in disguise?
Matt Holland: Well, there's a few things to that. At Larian, for a very long time, we've been trying to emulate a pen and paper experience and bring it to video games. I think it's just that. If people think it looks like Divinity, it's because we're trying to make that tabletop experience that D&D, well, is.
Adam Smith: It's a continuation of what we have been doing which is to move toward a tabletop experience in a cRPG. For the people who think that it doesn't quite look like they wanted it to look or doesn't quite feel like they hoped it would, then honestly, I would just say to see more of it. I think they'll be convinced pretty quickly. The deeper we go into it, the more and more they'll feel the D&D [influence] and how it's truly the heart of it. The more they see the systems and rule set, they'll start to see we are really using that ruleset. Some of the stuff that they recognize stayed in there because it makes sense in the world. The surfaces and the environmental interactions, we've built on them but it didn't make sense to drop them just because [Baldur's Gate 3] looked like Divinity because Divinity is really good as well. It's a continuation of that but it's D&D to its core lore wise and systems wise.
If this feedback remains after the game enters into early access, would you be willing to improve some aspects to make it more visibly D&D-like?
Matt: We're always open to feedback and that's mainly why we're going into early access for but we'll always take it into consideration no matter what feedback we get.
Adam: That's exactly it. The point of early access is so people can talk to us. There's a reason we didn't release a press release or make a statement saying 'oh by the way, our combat is turn-based'. We waited until we could show it to people so they could see it and they can get the impression of how it feels. Then, as soon as they start playing it, they'll have more impressions, more opinions. That's good, I mean that helps us because we like talking to them. We like hearing from them. I really don't think we have to do cause correction. When people start playing it, they will see that it feels very D&D. They'll get it.
In previous interviews, Swen [Vincke] has said that the goal was to innovate within the RPG genre and that Larian was taking a lot of creative risks with Baldur's Gate 3. Can you point us to some examples?
Matt: I think it's just the ones you just mentioned, right? We are making some changes to the Baldur's Gate formula to more fit the fifth edition of Dungeons and Dragons and really go in that direction. I guess that's one of the bigger risks.
Adam: We're also doing the cinematic dialogues that you just saw. We're doing that for custom characters. You can be different sizes, you can play as a gnome, we have to deal with that. A lot of games that use cinematics like this give you one set character. We're giving you five, more than five, but five that we show now, plus all the custom characters and we're doing cinematics for every single line of dialogue in the game. It's massive, like you know, it's a huge thing. When we made the decision to do that, creatively, the conversation was 'well, we can't compromise on the things that we do'. We're going to push to the next-gen ideas with our visuals that cannot compromise the freedom, cannot compromise multiplayer, can't compromise any of the openness. We're doing the game that has everything that you get from the traditional isometric and we're saying that you still have that game and Larian is adding more and more stuff into it. Creatively, that's really risky but it gives us this [Baldur's Gate 3]."
Once again, they were asked about Baldur's Gate, and they redirected it to D&D answers. Not once did they mention how this game is going to tie the first two into this game. They keep deflecting this and it isn't a good look.
No one is saying Larian can't make an amazing D&D game. It's the Baldur's Gate 3 that has people concerned.
Again, "everyone's biggest concern"? Is it? Who is everyone? Very few are griping about the title.
I wish you guys would just be more honest and say "My concern". You aren't speaking for a large group.
Cuts both ways.
Not really, since the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive among the community of CRPG players.
No. It has been overwhelmingly positive for Larian customers. A good majority are in wait and see.
Overwhelmingly positive would be the reactions Cyber Punk have been getting.
A good majority? Where's the evidence?
Where is yours?
Go ahead, link me the RPGCodex or Reddit threads that claim this is going to be a massive success. The only ones claiming that are those who are die hard DOS fans.
I'll wait.
You already said that the youtube gameplay reveal video has something like a 90% thumbs up ratio. Pretty rare to see anything there with alotta views and that positive of a ratio.
Edit to add: Just checked and it's 12k up vs 1k down. Dunno, would love to see you guys post any kind of empirical evidence of even this basic degree to back up your claims.
Just want to add that the logic that this works both ways doesn't hold. Generally speaking, nobody who has expressed excitement about the game is saying that the game must adhere to their preferences or it will be a market failure, or a betrayal of the series. In fact, several of the game's features are not to my personal taste. Though it still looks excellent so far.
So even though I have shown that most RPG fans seem to be happy with what they're seeing, it's not at all a necessary part of my argument. I've never argued that Larian has to appeal to my personal desires for BG3 for it to be successful or a "true BG game".
Again, "everyone's biggest concern"? Is it? Who is everyone? Very few are griping about the title.
I wish you guys would just be more honest and say "My concern". You aren't speaking for a large group.
Cuts both ways.
Not really, since the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive among the community of CRPG players.
No. It has been overwhelmingly positive for Larian customers. A good majority are in wait and see.
Overwhelmingly positive would be the reactions Cyber Punk have been getting.
A good majority? Where's the evidence?
Where is yours?
Go ahead, link me the RPGCodex or Reddit threads that claim this is going to be a massive success. The only ones claiming that are those who are die hard DOS fans.
I'll wait.
You already said that the youtube gameplay reveal video has something like a 90% thumbs up ratio. Pretty rare to see anything there with alotta views and that positive of a ratio.
Edit to add: Just checked and it's 12k up vs 1k down. Dunno, would love to see you guys post any kind of empirical evidence of even this basic degree to back up your claims.
Actually it isn’t. It’s rare to see the reverse though.
Let’s pick a game at random that I recently heard about Skull and Bones:
23 Minutes of Gameplay from IGN 9.2k likes to 2.1 dislikes. The main concern with the dislikes is that the game looks soulless, actually reading the comments their is more of a casual pass than excitement, yet it’s likes are still at 90% to 10%.
Cyberpunk 2077 since I mentioned it. Their Deep Dive video released only 6 months ago has over 5.5 million views and a like dislike ratio of 200k to 4k. That’s considered an overwhelming positive reaction IMO.
Again, "everyone's biggest concern"? Is it? Who is everyone? Very few are griping about the title.
I wish you guys would just be more honest and say "My concern". You aren't speaking for a large group.
Cuts both ways.
Not really, since the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive among the community of CRPG players.
No. It has been overwhelmingly positive for Larian customers. A good majority are in wait and see.
Overwhelmingly positive would be the reactions Cyber Punk have been getting.
A good majority? Where's the evidence?
Where is yours?
Go ahead, link me the RPGCodex or Reddit threads that claim this is going to be a massive success. The only ones claiming that are those who are die hard DOS fans.
I'll wait.
But most modern RPG community are from DOS fans. I don't like most larian games except Divine Divinity BUT look to steam/gog user reviews. People who don't recommend divinity are a less than 5% minority. BG3 will be a finantial success.
I would prefer if the arstyle was more akin to BG? Yes. Would prefer faster animations? Yes. Greater range for weaponry and spells? Yes. Less focus on gimmicky and pre made chars? Yes. But i was expecting a SCL clone...
Comments
Are you going to recreate sprites? I mean THE long lost assets? Oh my lord, please be my guest and do so!
No, my plan is to use an upscaler AI like Waifu2x for all of the graphical assets in the game and maybe employ an artist (or multiple artists) to smooth off the edges (figuratively speaking) wherever needed. Luckily, time is on my side in this regard, because the longer I wait, the better upscaling technologies will get. Here's a small test I've done earlier with a few item icons: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/69828/hq-item-icons-work-in-progress
Don't want to derail this thread though, so please direct any further questions/comments about this to the thread I've linked above or to my PM inbox.
I'm on message boards and I'm most definitely a casual fan. Just because I choose to not engage in fruitless ranting (edit: obviously my personal opinion) doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. I just choose to not get emotionally engaged in something as trivial (to me) as a game. I doubt I'm the only one like this. Another example, I lurked this forum for years before registering, I've been a member for 5 years or whatever, I'm even a mod here, but I would still probably lable myself as a pretty casual BG player.
Point being; the world is not black and white and most people are to complex to be easily categorized into just one or another group "pro or against", "TB or Twtp", "hater or fan boi" etc and there's probably a lot more people paying attention then there is who engage in actively in the communities/forums.
No I said official forums. I was meaning GoG and Steam where the game is being sold. And these forums were up and running before Larian has theirs up but I do understand the confusion. I was just meaning it wasn’t on places like reddit or RPGCodex that this was being discussed.
And once again, casual fans don’t even have this on their radar. None of the influencers who I follow are even talking about this game (yet). The only people who are, are Larian fans (who are hyped and have blinders on because it is Larian) and Baldur’s Gate fans (who are a mixed bag). No one is joining either chorus and that says something about the marketing of this game.
But if you want. The game play reveal video is about 10:1 on likes and dislikes. Out of people paying attention 10% aren’t satisfied with what they are seeing. Those numbers are harder to break down though on why they are disliking (or even liking) the video.
Totally respect and understand that but my point has always been keep those who are emotionally engaged on your side while developing a game or any product for that matter. Being dismissive of their concerns (or without offering reassurances) is also not good practise.
WotC (not really Larian, but they’re getting the brunt of it) failed to do that.
They showed the gameplay not for 10 mins, but for nearly 1.5 hours.
Why do people think the people behind BG3 are dismissive of concerns? Explaining something wouldn't be done/included/re-worked and offering an alternative is not a dismissal. It's honesty and clarity. It's impossible to fulfil every feature request.
Of the few gaming-news-type content creators that I follow, Laymen Gaming are the only ones that I heard talk about BG3 since the gameplay reveal, and out of them Sam in particular is rather excited about BG3. Though it is also the case that they have noticed—and mentioned in their discussion—that many fans of the original games were dissatisfied with BG3 looking like it has too little in common with the original games. They presented this view in what I thought was a fairly neutral way.
Link with time code
Everyone’s biggest concern is the title. That concern has been dismissed up until the latest gazette where there was one line addressing it.
Most of the other concerns (such as RtwP) wouldn’t have been a concern if it wasn’t for the title.
I wish you guys would just be more honest and say "My concern". You aren't speaking for a large group.
Don’t get me wrong. It was completely informative. I broke down the gameplay here and my thoughts about it. I devoured that hint to ties to BG1&2. I am not sold on the game yet, but I am very interested in it regardless of what it is called.
I am viewing things through a marketing lens and not a gamer lens when I am talking about this.
This also assumes that everyone aware of the game is watching the trailer. I never bothered to watch it, because it was already clear the game was not going to be for me before the trailer ever dropped. Statistically I CAN'T be the only one.
Very true. I think many that have always hoped for a Baldur's Gate III sequel are in your boat.
And honestly, I agree with the "3" being a problem if it isn't actually a sequel. I think it was ridiculous to claim this is the first return to Baldur's Gate in 20 years when we have SoD. It's the kind of hype in advertising I just roll my eyes at because it's all a lie playing on people's emotions.
But at the same time, I think the purists who want the Bhaalspawn story to continue are in the minority and are out of luck in this matter anyway. What people are going to get is a Divinity: Original Sin game with D&D rules set in the Sword Coast. I think most people don't care. I have two roommates that play PnP all the time and all they care about is that it is Baldur's Gate 3 even though they barely remember 1 and 2 and don't own a single remake of an IE game or SoD. They could care less. They're just excited a AAA D&D cRPG is coming out. And I think most people are probably in that camp or Larian fans. I think most people moved on from ever getting a Baldur's Gate III as a true sequel. Even fans who have played IE games for over two decades are pretty divided on how they feel about it (as seen here in these forums).
Not really, since the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive among the community of CRPG players.
No. It has been overwhelmingly positive for Larian customers. A good majority are in wait and see.
Overwhelmingly positive would be the reactions Cyber Punk have been getting.
Edit: when I say not really my thing I mean the futuristic mercenary style. It takes a lot to get me interested in those kind of games.
the difference with Black Hound is when Black Isle was developing it, they could only use the D&D IP if they were making an Icewind Dale or Baldur’s Gate name.
This isn’t the case with Larian (actually knowing WotC, it might actually be the case).
A good majority? Where's the evidence?
A snippet:
"I'm just going to come right out swinging. As you guys probably already know, while most folks have enjoyed the reveal [of Baldur's Gate 3], there's been a rather vocal portion of Baldur's Gate fans who didn't feel like this looked like a true sequel. What can you say to assuage their fears that this is actually a Divinity: Original Sin game in disguise?
Matt Holland: Well, there's a few things to that. At Larian, for a very long time, we've been trying to emulate a pen and paper experience and bring it to video games. I think it's just that. If people think it looks like Divinity, it's because we're trying to make that tabletop experience that D&D, well, is.
Adam Smith: It's a continuation of what we have been doing which is to move toward a tabletop experience in a cRPG. For the people who think that it doesn't quite look like they wanted it to look or doesn't quite feel like they hoped it would, then honestly, I would just say to see more of it. I think they'll be convinced pretty quickly. The deeper we go into it, the more and more they'll feel the D&D [influence] and how it's truly the heart of it. The more they see the systems and rule set, they'll start to see we are really using that ruleset. Some of the stuff that they recognize stayed in there because it makes sense in the world. The surfaces and the environmental interactions, we've built on them but it didn't make sense to drop them just because [Baldur's Gate 3] looked like Divinity because Divinity is really good as well. It's a continuation of that but it's D&D to its core lore wise and systems wise.
If this feedback remains after the game enters into early access, would you be willing to improve some aspects to make it more visibly D&D-like?
Matt: We're always open to feedback and that's mainly why we're going into early access for but we'll always take it into consideration no matter what feedback we get.
Adam: That's exactly it. The point of early access is so people can talk to us. There's a reason we didn't release a press release or make a statement saying 'oh by the way, our combat is turn-based'. We waited until we could show it to people so they could see it and they can get the impression of how it feels. Then, as soon as they start playing it, they'll have more impressions, more opinions. That's good, I mean that helps us because we like talking to them. We like hearing from them. I really don't think we have to do cause correction. When people start playing it, they will see that it feels very D&D. They'll get it.
In previous interviews, Swen [Vincke] has said that the goal was to innovate within the RPG genre and that Larian was taking a lot of creative risks with Baldur's Gate 3. Can you point us to some examples?
Matt: I think it's just the ones you just mentioned, right? We are making some changes to the Baldur's Gate formula to more fit the fifth edition of Dungeons and Dragons and really go in that direction. I guess that's one of the bigger risks.
Adam: We're also doing the cinematic dialogues that you just saw. We're doing that for custom characters. You can be different sizes, you can play as a gnome, we have to deal with that. A lot of games that use cinematics like this give you one set character. We're giving you five, more than five, but five that we show now, plus all the custom characters and we're doing cinematics for every single line of dialogue in the game. It's massive, like you know, it's a huge thing. When we made the decision to do that, creatively, the conversation was 'well, we can't compromise on the things that we do'. We're going to push to the next-gen ideas with our visuals that cannot compromise the freedom, cannot compromise multiplayer, can't compromise any of the openness. We're doing the game that has everything that you get from the traditional isometric and we're saying that you still have that game and Larian is adding more and more stuff into it. Creatively, that's really risky but it gives us this [Baldur's Gate 3]."
Where is yours?
Go ahead, link me the RPGCodex or Reddit threads that claim this is going to be a massive success. The only ones claiming that are those who are die hard DOS fans.
I'll wait.
Once again, they were asked about Baldur's Gate, and they redirected it to D&D answers. Not once did they mention how this game is going to tie the first two into this game. They keep deflecting this and it isn't a good look.
No one is saying Larian can't make an amazing D&D game. It's the Baldur's Gate 3 that has people concerned.
I'm convinced the reason is they didn't make a Baldur's Gate series game. They made a D:OS-like D&D game set in Baldur's Gate.
You already said that the youtube gameplay reveal video has something like a 90% thumbs up ratio. Pretty rare to see anything there with alotta views and that positive of a ratio.
Edit to add: Just checked and it's 12k up vs 1k down. Dunno, would love to see you guys post any kind of empirical evidence of even this basic degree to back up your claims.
So even though I have shown that most RPG fans seem to be happy with what they're seeing, it's not at all a necessary part of my argument. I've never argued that Larian has to appeal to my personal desires for BG3 for it to be successful or a "true BG game".
Actually it isn’t. It’s rare to see the reverse though.
Let’s pick a game at random that I recently heard about Skull and Bones:
Ubisoft NA account 2017 Cinematic Trailer 29k vs 1.2k, with 2.7 million views.
23 Minutes of Gameplay from IGN 9.2k likes to 2.1 dislikes. The main concern with the dislikes is that the game looks soulless, actually reading the comments their is more of a casual pass than excitement, yet it’s likes are still at 90% to 10%.
Cyberpunk 2077 since I mentioned it. Their Deep Dive video released only 6 months ago has over 5.5 million views and a like dislike ratio of 200k to 4k. That’s considered an overwhelming positive reaction IMO.
edited to provide links.
But most modern RPG community are from DOS fans. I don't like most larian games except Divine Divinity BUT look to steam/gog user reviews. People who don't recommend divinity are a less than 5% minority. BG3 will be a finantial success.
I would prefer if the arstyle was more akin to BG? Yes. Would prefer faster animations? Yes. Greater range for weaponry and spells? Yes. Less focus on gimmicky and pre made chars? Yes. But i was expecting a SCL clone...