@Montresor_SP How do we know Imoen didn't run into any problems? She seems like a surprisingly resourceful person. I mean she managed to escape her cell in Irenicus's Dungeon and help free the rest of the party.
She also: 1. Seems to have connections we don't know about as she convinced a thief in Baldur's Gate to free charname after the events of Siege of Dragonspear 2. Can easily conceal the extent of her abilities because she managed to catch Irenicus off guard with her magic missile 3. Is a Bhaalspawn, and may possibly have some sort of persuasion power
And if that isn't good enough for you, Imoen just has plot armor.
I just saw that this board has now reach 25K views! That's really awesome, I'm just another guy in real life but I'm glad that I'm somebody important to you guys on this forum. It makes me feel special and I thank each and every one of you for it.
Another logic problem just crossed my mind and I wanted to post it before I went to bed.
Sarevok clearly wants the party dead, right? So after his initial ambush failed, why didn't he send more elite people after the party to begin with? I get why he can't send his inner circle or handle it himself because he's got other important stuff to do, but think about it.
Can you imagine if the party was ambushed by Nimbul at the Friendly Arm instead of Tarnesh? Or perhaps one of those mid-level bounty hunter groups was hired to cut the party off on the roads instead of being scattered randomly about the map? Charname would then be a pile of ash long before Sarevok would ever have to worry about him/her.
At least the other villains have reasons for wanting to hold off on killing Charname, but Sarevok has NO excuse 1. Caelar wants to convince Charname to join her cause 2. Belhefit couldn't have predicted Charname coming to Avernus to fight him 3. Irenicus needed Charname alive in order to get his/her soul 4. Mellisan needed Charname to kill the other Bhaalspawn so she could steal Bhaal's power for herself 5. Firkragg just wanted to torment Charname because of his petty hate-crush on Gorion and the Harpers
Even when we run into Sarevok again in TOB his motivation to manipulate the party into helping him give him a reason not to kill the party, but in BG he doesn't have any excuse for not axing Charname and Co. while he had the chance.
At that time, Charname really was small fry, and with Gorion dead, it was quite presumable that Charname didn't stand much of a chance.
Also note that levels are quite arbitrary. While technically speaking, your character becomes a lot more powerful during the course of the campaign, storywise it wouldn't make sense to become so much stronger over such a relative short amount of time.
Narratively it would make more sense that Charname discovers the strength that he possesses, rather than literally gaining said strength. Thus, narratively speaking, he'd likely be able to deal with Nimbul already if he really tried, even if that's not properly represented by game stats.
Though I think there's surely folks out there that can defeat Nimbul solo at level 1. Some players do the craziest of stuff. __________
PS: I'm glad that you take so much joy out of seeing so many views and posts to the thread that you started, but not every single view of this thread or post in this thread is specifically dedicated towards you. I mean no disrespect, but me posting in this thread does not automatically mean you're someone important to me.
@Thels You are correct, I wasn't attempting to over glorify myself and that may have come across wrong. I'm just thanking everyone for contributing to this thread and I feel like the people who have contributed to it are like family to me at this point.
I don't think Sarevok wants to kill you. In the prologue video he kills a weak pathetic bhaalspawn. He could have spared him, tortured him to learn about others, but he's so revolted by the weakness that he doesn't care. When Gorion dies he knows you're alone and can't go home, he knows you'll die if you're weak and does just enough to test you. In the final battle, I believe he genuinely wants you there. He wants to be a god and if he can't defeat you, he isn't worthy of godhood. I think that's why he can genuinely change in TOB. Defeating him destroyed everything he once was. Just my 2cents.
Not all mercenaries like working together either and there are really a lot of bandits and mercenaries on the road from prologue to end game with paper pamflets in their hands upping the bounty with increasing numbers. Sarevok sends plenty.
Irenicus I do not understand. He can get what he wants from someone else. Why wait weeks or months for you to arrive?
Not all mercenaries like working together either and there are really a lot of bandits and mercenaries on the road from prologue to end game with paper pamflets in their hands upping the bounty with increasing numbers. Sarevok sends plenty.
Irenicus I do not understand. He can get what he wants from someone else. Why wait weeks or months for you to arrive?
He may be able to get it from someone else, but he implies that you are the first he's found that will work. In SoD, he is clearly watching those with divine blood to find the right one. He found Caelar lacking, and gave Imoen's soul to Bohdi. The existence of others doesn't mean much if you haven't found them yet.
The merceneries in BG1 leave notes behind and if you can read them you can see that Sarevok thought you weak first. The phrasing is kinda like "Oh crap, this dude is getting more and more annoying so I need better and better mercs to deal with him". I think that explains a bit why the mercs are getting increasingly stronger and better, ie the Tarnesh vs Nimbul vs the merc groups encountered in tough areas.
edit: I mean if you read between the lines, to make things more clear.
@Skatan I'm really going to have to up the ante on that paranoia in my version of the story (speaking of which Chapter 2 is in the editing phase and it should be up in a couple days)
Well, the question is whether the canon that Irenicus deems imoen unfit for personal usage originates from SoD or bg2 and whether someone can link me a dialogue entry / file.
Well, the question is whether the canon that Irenicus deems imoen unfit for personal usage originates from SoD or bg2 and whether someone can link me a dialogue entry / file.
It wouldn't matter, because its the same canon, still not sure what you are saying. I was inferring Imoen's uselessness to Irenicus though. He never states, but he never uses her soul the entire time he has her in spellhold, which would greatly speed up his revenge, which is states is all he cares about anymore. So it makes sense that Imoen wouldn't have worked for him.
I always thought he was stupid and unless there is dialogue to prove she is unfit for use I cannot really change that...
About canon, it could be canon since 20 (?) years ago or only just since 2 (?) years, which makes a difference because that means the canon got rewritten and I did not notice or I simply never noticed at all.
In the novel, for all that's worth, Irenicus actually tries to use both Abdel and Imoen. I'm not exactly sure why Jaheira was kept around, except perhaps for leverage over Abdel?
I always thought he was stupid and unless there is dialogue to prove she is unfit for use I cannot really change that...
About canon, it could be canon since 20 (?) years ago or only just since 2 (?) years, which makes a difference because that means the canon got rewritten and I did not notice or I simply never noticed at all.
He's not stupid, but he is super focused on a specific goal, so he does go tunnel vision on things he sees as beneath him or unneccessary. Nothing in SoD's characterization contradicts anything in BG2, so nothing was "changed" about Irenicus. Him not using Imoen's soul for himself is evidence in favor of the "Couldn't find a compatible soul" theory, and I don't recall of anything that would contradict it.
I personally agree with @ThacoBell on this one. I once heard someone say Skie could have also been a Bhaalspawn due to how things turned out for her, but Irenicus discovered he couldn't use her either.
And as far as going after charname specifically? It just makes sense. You don't want someone weak like the guard at the start of BG1 but you also don't want to get yourself killed going after one of The Five.
Also, all Liches with the exception of Coldhearth. keep their Phylactery attached to their bodies so adventurers need only kill them once.
What makes you say that? Charname doesn't actually destroy any lich phylacteries in BG2. Meaning, Charname doesn't actually kill any liches in BG2.
Meaning, for all those players who put Kangaxx together to snag a ring with a near- useless amount of regeration, and justify by claiming they only want to end the threat of the lich? Uh no, sorry buddy. You just unleashed the lich. His little magical trinket was simply the bait he used to dupe you. Why do you think his fighting tactics are so bad that he can't defeat an unusually angry warrior?? He wants to lose.
@subtledoctor You just made Kangaxx *way* more awesome, thank you.
I'm sure Kangaxx is more than willing to part with a reasonably powerful artifact (he probably has tons more) and then hope he doesn't cross paths with the significantly more powerful CHARNAME again in the future.
Kangaxx is smart, he won't mess with people he can't beat again, he'll stick to gaining power and knowledge like most liches. Oh and playing to take over the world.
Though I bet Szass Tam could give him a run for his money.
I was going through this thread because I was bored, and wanted to bring this back up for discussion, because a thought occurred.
What if the Ring of Gaxx IS Kangaxx's phylactery? It would certainly keep him alive as the party would never destroy such a powerful artifact that is benefiting them, and the respawned Kangaxx can then go about and do whatever he wishes.
Comments
How do we know Imoen didn't run into any problems? She seems like a surprisingly resourceful person. I mean she managed to escape her cell in Irenicus's Dungeon and help free the rest of the party.
She also:
1. Seems to have connections we don't know about as she convinced a thief in Baldur's Gate to free charname after the events of Siege of Dragonspear
2. Can easily conceal the extent of her abilities because she managed to catch Irenicus off guard with her magic missile
3. Is a Bhaalspawn, and may possibly have some sort of persuasion power
And if that isn't good enough for you, Imoen just has plot armor.
I still wonder who my dad is though
Garrick might be a good choice. I know NPC Project isn't canon, but in that mod she does think Garrick is cute.
That is...troublesome.
Sarevok clearly wants the party dead, right? So after his initial ambush failed, why didn't he send more elite people after the party to begin with? I get why he can't send his inner circle or handle it himself because he's got other important stuff to do, but think about it.
Can you imagine if the party was ambushed by Nimbul at the Friendly Arm instead of Tarnesh? Or perhaps one of those mid-level bounty hunter groups was hired to cut the party off on the roads instead of being scattered randomly about the map? Charname would then be a pile of ash long before Sarevok would ever have to worry about him/her.
At least the other villains have reasons for wanting to hold off on killing Charname, but Sarevok has NO excuse
1. Caelar wants to convince Charname to join her cause
2. Belhefit couldn't have predicted Charname coming to Avernus to fight him
3. Irenicus needed Charname alive in order to get his/her soul
4. Mellisan needed Charname to kill the other Bhaalspawn so she could steal Bhaal's power for herself
5. Firkragg just wanted to torment Charname because of his petty hate-crush on Gorion and the Harpers
Even when we run into Sarevok again in TOB his motivation to manipulate the party into helping him give him a reason not to kill the party, but in BG he doesn't have any excuse for not axing Charname and Co. while he had the chance.
Also note that levels are quite arbitrary. While technically speaking, your character becomes a lot more powerful during the course of the campaign, storywise it wouldn't make sense to become so much stronger over such a relative short amount of time.
Narratively it would make more sense that Charname discovers the strength that he possesses, rather than literally gaining said strength. Thus, narratively speaking, he'd likely be able to deal with Nimbul already if he really tried, even if that's not properly represented by game stats.
Though I think there's surely folks out there that can defeat Nimbul solo at level 1. Some players do the craziest of stuff.
__________
PS: I'm glad that you take so much joy out of seeing so many views and posts to the thread that you started, but not every single view of this thread or post in this thread is specifically dedicated towards you. I mean no disrespect, but me posting in this thread does not automatically mean you're someone important to me.
You are correct, I wasn't attempting to over glorify myself and that may have come across wrong. I'm just thanking everyone for contributing to this thread and I feel like the people who have contributed to it are like family to me at this point.
Irenicus I do not understand. He can get what he wants from someone else. Why wait weeks or months for you to arrive?
edit: I mean if you read between the lines, to make things more clear.
I'm really going to have to up the ante on that paranoia in my version of the story (speaking of which Chapter 2 is in the editing phase and it should be up in a couple days)
"Ew, I don't wanna steal a girl's soul!"
About canon, it could be canon since 20 (?) years ago or only just since 2 (?) years, which makes a difference because that means the canon got rewritten and I did not notice or I simply never noticed at all.
I personally agree with @ThacoBell on this one. I once heard someone say Skie could have also been a Bhaalspawn due to how things turned out for her, but Irenicus discovered he couldn't use her either.
And as far as going after charname specifically? It just makes sense. You don't want someone weak like the guard at the start of BG1 but you also don't want to get yourself killed going after one of The Five.
I was going through this thread because I was bored, and wanted to bring this back up for discussion, because a thought occurred.
What if the Ring of Gaxx IS Kangaxx's phylactery? It would certainly keep him alive as the party would never destroy such a powerful artifact that is benefiting them, and the respawned Kangaxx can then go about and do whatever he wishes.