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10 bandit Waylay should be removed from chapter 1

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Comments

  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 194
    You're right, the bandit in question says there are no traps but I've always thought he didn't seem very convincing, a bit too eager to claim there are no traps. Which immediately made me suspect there are traps. An obvious liar trying to reassure you that there are no traps counts as a warning that there are traps in my book.

    Not sure what the odds of the basilisk encounter are but I don't think I've ever encountered it. If you have a potion of mirror eyes in a quick slot, and auto-pause on hostile creatures being spotted, do you have chance to drink the potion before charname gets turned to stone?

    Generally speaking, all encounters should have a reasonable chance of survival for a party of appropriate level to be wandering that part of the world who have a good grasp of tactics. The 10 bandit ambush and the basilisk ambush break those rules although they are rare events so it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

  • bretbret Member Posts: 24
    CamDawg said:

    The ambush area in question is ar6100, which can spawn the 10-bandit ambush between 8pm and midnight. ar6100 is pretty much the ambush area for traveling along the main road and the area itself has a north-south cobbled path. It's used as the ambush area starting in the north with Wyrm's Crossing, the ankheg farm/Ajantis' area, FAI, area south of FAI, Lion's Way (where Gorion gets ambushed), Beregost, south of Beregost, and north of Nashkel. Ambushes occur roughly 5% for each area traveled.

    Thanks, @CamDawg! This is precisely the kind of detailed meta-knowledge an SCS no-reloader like me needed! I can now avoid this encounter (until I know I'm ready to handle it) by timing my travel or altering my route. In that sense, it's not unlike any other trap or difficult encounter. As an added bonus, it's compatible with an RP mindset: "I better avoid traveling along this main road after dark!"

    Although the no-reload playstyle requires a lot of meta-game knowledge to be successful, I've always liked how it forces me to play super conservatively and really "fear" death in the game. In that sense, no/minimal reload playthroughs give me better RP immersion (and make me more invested in CHARNAME) than when I rely on reloads. I.e. it's not just difficulty-for-difficulty's sake; it enhances the experience for me.

    ConjurerDragonJLee
  • PingwinPingwin Member Posts: 194
    If you are roleplaying, then you may well want to travel at night to remain unseen by those who are looking for you...

    bob_vengDragonspear
  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 157
    Pingwin said:

    You're right, the bandit in question says there are no traps but I've always thought he didn't seem very convincing, a bit too eager to claim there are no traps. Which immediately made me suspect there are traps. An obvious liar trying to reassure you that there are no traps counts as a warning that there are traps in my book.

    Not sure what the odds of the basilisk encounter are but I don't think I've ever encountered it. If you have a potion of mirror eyes in a quick slot, and auto-pause on hostile creatures being spotted, do you have chance to drink the potion before charname gets turned to stone?

    I never thought him an obvious liar, just really nervous for his life because he's basically at daggerpoint of getting killed if he doesn't spill the beans.
    As for the basilisk, yeah you can look at your log to see who he is targetting, pause, quaff a potion (instant (hope the character is not following a script other than "attack")) and proceed to kill it for good EXP. It's just one of those things where you kinda have to know it can happen or it will 100 % kill you when it happens. I've seen it once in my last 4 playthroughts.

  • KvotheRM8KvotheRM8 Member Posts: 28
    I just duck and after they shoot each other to death I pick up their hair pieces and say, “So I kicked him in the head until he was dead, hehehe”

    Very_BigSwordthespaceDJKajuru
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,653
    The random 10 bandit ambush is not fun. Therefore, it should not be in the game.

    Let's be honest: who here is excited when they see it happen? Who here is disappointed when it doesn't happen? Because there are lots of people who clearly don't enjoy it. Removing the encounter would be good for some people while... failing to hurt anyone else.

    The ambush was clearly intended to just kill the player and force a reload to artificially increase the difficulty, just like the basilisk ambush. It isn't fun or interesting, and it was never supposed to be.

    If you're going to put a game ending encounter in a game, you should at least make it interesting. This encounter isn't even that.

    LammasDreadKhanOrlonKronsteen
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,653
    I bring this up because the argument appears to be between "I don't like the ambush" and "I don't mind the ambush," as opposed to "I don't like the ambush" and "I like the ambush."

    LammasDreadKhan
  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 157
    While I dislike the bandit waylay I don't think it should be removed. Or at least it's definitely at the very bottom of the list of things that need a bit of work. The basilisk encounter on the other hand is grade-A bullcrap when it happens.

    You can argue all you want about there not being a need to be in that area for story reasons all you want but I'd be amazed if anyone is happy to see that come up while exploring. Either you know it can happen and you are prepared for the possibility or you are 99.9 % screwed into reloading. All the worse for new players who don't know what a basilisk does and therefore even if they have a solution in their inventory they are none the wiser to use it. Don't happen to carry stone to flesh scrolls on a regular basis? Well there goes that party member and all he was carrying too. I don't think even the original instrucion manual talked a word about basilisks but I might be wrong about that since mine has been lost to the ages years ago (I miss the old instruction manuals, wonder if I'd be able to get them online somewere now that I think about it).

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,047
    Lammas said:

    All the worse for new players who don't know what a basilisk does and therefore even if they have a solution in their inventory they are none the wiser to use it.

    I mean, Baldur's Gate didn't invent the basilisk. They're a pretty well known mythological creature. I feel like it's reasonable to assume the player will know what their deal is, or failing that, will learn the first time they see one in action.

    scriverThacoBell
  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 157
    edited December 2018
    You really shouldn't assume your players know mythology. I can still remember being quite surprised by these guys in my younger days. And if they target your main character first you'll not really have any indication as to why you died because the screen goes grey and even your chatlog disappears.

    But like I said, you can argue against it all you want. You won't be changing my opinion of that random encounter. I'm not too surprised they didn't make a return in BG2 although we did get beholders in their place (though never in a random encounter).

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,047
    Lammas said:


    But like I said, you can argue against it all you want. You won't be changing my opinion of that random encounter. I'm not too surprised they didn't make a return in BG2 although we did get beholders in their place (though never in a random encounter).

    Is there nothing that petrifies you in BG2? I mostly play BG1, but that seems interesting to me. You could learn Protection from Petrification and keep it in your spellbook the entire trilogy waiting for it to come up again.

    hockmah2
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,220
    edited December 2018
    I love the 10-bandit encounter when I'm level 2-4. (Those scalps!) I've literally never seen it when I was level 1. So yes, I like it.

    StummvonBordwehrscriverBalrog99ThacoBell
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,653
    edited December 2018
    Artona said:

    I bring this up because the argument appears to be between "I don't like the ambush" and "I don't mind the ambush," as opposed to "I don't like the ambush" and "I like the ambush."

    I think that no player "likes" getting stunned. Or brain devoured. Or Imprisoned. Is it a reason to remove those effects from the game?
    The player actually has more options for dealing with those threats in BG2 than arrows in BG1:

    Chaotic Commands/Free Action (depending on game version)/rage/low saves (Potions of Invulnerability/Stone Form/Magic Shielding, various items and spells from Rings of Protection to Blur and Protection from Evil)/Sword of Arvoreen/Arbane's Sword (depending on game version), Potions of Genius/PFMW/(Improved) Mantle/Absolute Immunity/low AC/Teleport Field, and spell protections of various types (Spell Deflection, Spell Turning, Spell Trap, Shield of the Archons, Spell Immunity: Abjuration, Protection from Magic) or spell disruption (Insect Plague, Wizard Slayer spell failure, or damage)

    can all block those things. And you probably have most of them by the time you run into these effects. For BG1, avoiding arrows is basically just wearing armor and a shield until you get more options later in the game.

    Incidentally, I was not pointing out that players don't like dying (that much is obvious)--I was pointing out that this encounter just isn't very interesting to fight.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,653
    edited December 2018
    I created a poll here so people can vote on the matter.

    bob_veng
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,455
    I also found this list which implies that you can revisit an area to retrieve a lost item/comrade if necessary:
    http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/waylaid.htm

    Chronicler
  • AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 166
    Its a lot of fun and i enjoy beating the 10 bandit ambush when it happens. If its too difficult for you you can always make a mod that changes it to be be way you want it. Then you could release and if theres anyone else who thinks its too hard can download it as well.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,047
    dunbar said:

    I also found this list which implies that you can revisit an area to retrieve a lost item/comrade if necessary:
    http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/waylaid.htm

    I've done it once. Booted a character to make room for Dorn, later got waylaid in between Nashkel and the Mines and they were still hanging out there.

    It's apparently not a fresh instance each time. It's like any other map except you can't select it on the world map, you can only sort of find yourself there if you're attacked between maps.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,363
    The main reason I go back to ambush areas is to revive a stoned character after an encounter with a basilisk ...

    thespaceJuliusBorisov
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