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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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Comments

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 563
    Maze is not a touch range spell, it has a range similar to Magic Missile. Imprisonment is the touch range spell, so an enemy trying to get close to you to cast an Abjuration spell = Imprisonment, not Maze.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,743
    In the unmodded game, maze is also a touch range spell. As I mentioned Abazigal is an exception to that, which is a large part of the reason why many character classes find that a hard encounter when solo.

    JuliusBorisov
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 254
    edited January 16
    There are more things to worry about if you use SCS. Balors on SCS have vorpal hits with no save (not sure on exactly which difficulty levels, but at least on Insane it's like this). Only death ward and protection from magical weapons protect against it as far as I know.

    Post edited by Ludwig_II on
    semiticgodJuliusBorisov
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    Wow, thanks for the very detailed answers.

    I thought I had been more precise, but I asked under the assumption that the character is not a caster class (mages can protect against anything, divine caster have Chaotic Commands and Death Ward that basically covers any threat bar Imprisonment).

    I see now that I had maybe underestimated the Maze threat (although I did not know that Magic Resistance can block it). I’ll definitely will need to be careful about that one.
    It is funny that you should mention Gaius as one of those threats: I just killed him with my solo-archer before reading the answers on my post, but I never let him get the chance to send a spell at me, so this is kind of a solution too :smiley:
    Anyway, as a non-caster, relying on stealth can prevent most spellcasters to target you, and as a (non berserker/barbarian) fighter class, Magic Resistance, or the Ring of Spell Turning seem to be the only way to defend against this (what about the cloak of mirroring? I think it was modified to only absorb spell damage, not debilitating spells? I never use it anyway ‘cause the old vanilla cloak felt too OP). Would the Ring protect only against a maze spell sent your way, or also deflect a maze trap ?

    Imprisonment is a big headache, unless you play a mage (SI:Abjuration) or a Berserker (Enrage), there are no way of protecting against it except Protection from Magic (but only 2 scrolls) and, in a roundabout way, Protection from Undead since those spells are only cast by the 2 demi-liches (correct me if I’m wrong).

    The Power Word spells exist specifically to allow no save, but there is always a way around it. First, PW:Blind or Silence are not insta-kills, just very dangerous debuffs, so the only 2 spells I’ll need to be careful against are PW:Kill and PW:Stun, but as long as I am careful about my HP, they have no effect.

    Outside of spells, I was also wondering about some special abilities from creatures (demon’s stunning gazes, beholder death rays, for example), do some especially powerful ones have a special ability that doesn’t allow a saving throw ?

    For beholders, I generally don’t fret too much, outside the Shield of Cheese, just a quick transfo into Mustard Jelly with the Cloak of the Sewers also renders them inoffensive.
    I guess a shorty fighter class with enhanced ST could also absorb the disabling spells, but the magical damage could still be an issue. There’s the Belt of Inertial Barrier to reduce it by 50% though. A potion of Magic Protection would further increase it by 50% AND make all saves automatically successful, so you could just dance around those beholders for the duration of the potion (Roger the Fence sell a few, enough to clear the 2 beholder areas).

    Out of all the disabling/insta-deaths effects, the one I am most concerned about outside Maze/Imprisonment is Stun.
    Free Action cures it but does not prevent it, hopefully and apart from PW:Stun, all other stunning spells/abilities allow a saving throw. If not, how does one protect against it ?
    If I’m not mistaken, there are only very few ways to protect against stun:
    - Mazzy’s sword (usable only by halflings)
    - 100% magic resistance (in no-reload runs, I would not bet my life on less than that)
    - Berserker/Barbarian rages
    - lvl5 divine spell Chaotic Commands
    - arcane protection spells.
    So, apart relying on saving throws or the Mustard Jelly form from the cloak of the sewers, how would you protect a fighter class or thief class against stun ?

    Fear, charm, confusion, hold are usually easily covered with gear or potions, so I’m not that concerned about the Succubus for example.

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 563
    BG fixpack or tweakpack (not sure which) modifies Free Action to protect against Stun for consistency's sake.

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    edited January 16
    Thanks everyone for your replies!

    @semiticgod I didn't know that the troll form also resisted stun. I generally only used it for its innate regeneration before sleeping, O might have to look more into that form.
    This cloak gets more awesome the more I use it :smiley:

    I haven't seen vanilla mages use the Polymorph Other spell, and it allows a save without innate penalty, so it should be okay with the premise that my PC has awesome negative saves, despite using the save Vs. Petrification/Polymorph that shorties get no bonus against.

    I also forgot about the Greenstone Amulet and Slayer form, silly me.

    At @Grond0 : obviously, protection from fear, hold etc is also important, bit there so many ways to protect against them that I am not concerned, whichever class I play.

    You are right though about dispels, I should be careful about that, since only arcane casters can protect against it (SI:Abjuration).
    I should not just gulp a potion or two and feel safe against spellcasting enemies just because they don't cast maze/imprisonment/PowerWords.

    I still feel that a Dwarven Defender with good gear (with the Ring of Gaxx, Helmet of Balduran, Amulet of Spell Warding and the Human Flesh +5, and under Defensive Stance, saving throw vs. Spells can go as low as -10, non dispellable) can save against any spell thrown at them.
    Even before chapter 6, a lvl13 DD (under stance and 18+ CON) has a ST vs. Spell of 1. Potions of Invulnerability or Stone Form can bring it to negative values (can be dispelled though).

    Added to that the physical damage resistance (up to 93% at max lvl with DoE and helmet of Dumathoin) and magical damage reduction from Belt of Inertial Barrier, the only threat would be Maze/Imprisonment (the high hp pool for the DD makes it unlikely, with all these DR, to be affected by Power words spells).

    A ring of free action on top of that to prevent the odd Earthquake/Implosion/Bigby (apart from Implosion, I don't remember having been subject to those spells in vanilla).

    Obviously, these calculations are under the assumption that the character survives until then :wink:

    Thank you guys, you've given me much food for thought :)

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    Grond0 wrote: »
    As you suggested in your earlier post, imprisonment is cast by a number of enemies (like some elder orbs) apart from demi-liches.

    Despite a quick search on the forum / wiki, I haven't found any information on enemies casting Imprisonment apart from the demi-liches.

    Do you have details on that point ?

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 827
    monico wrote: »
    Grond0 wrote: »
    As you suggested in your earlier post, imprisonment is cast by a number of enemies (like some elder orbs) apart from demi-liches.

    Despite a quick search on the forum / wiki, I haven't found any information on enemies casting Imprisonment apart from the demi-liches.

    Do you have details on that point ?

    The elder orb in the underdark beholder lair (SE corner) casts imprisonment. Besides that it’s “just” the Demi liches - and this in vanilla ee.

    Maze is cast twice in the planar sphere - and all liches once other spells are depleted. Casters do need to close in on you before the casting, so you can dodge them and kite them to death - not all that viable in a no reload scenario though

    monicoJuliusBorisov
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    edited January 16
    Considering that I am currently running a solo archer (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1113504/#Comment_1113504), avoiding melee is mandatory to me anyway :smiley:

    But thank you for the info, it will be useful when my archer will meet his unavoidable end and it will be time to roll a new character !

    JuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,743
    My memory is hazy on imprisonment as it's not something you come across often. I think there are a number of others that use it (though it's possible I'm remembering maze):
    - one of the Watcher's Keep seal guardians
    - the lich trapped in the Underdark soul gems
    - the elder orb with the item desired by the Matron Mother

    monico wrote: »
    At @Grond0 : obviously, protection from fear, hold etc is also important, bit there so many ways to protect against them that I am not concerned, whichever class I play.

    I guess you haven't played many druids in early to middle BG2 then :p. Lack of specific fear protection is a significant weakness for them (rare potions of clarity are basically it), though you can get round that fairly easily in the unmodded game by always keeping summons up for enemies to focus on and staying back a good distance from those. In the later game there are more options, but all of them are dispellable which creates its own difficulties.

    StummvonBordwehrNeverusedmonicoJuliusBorisov
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,743
    Blackrazor and the upgraded Runehammer both also give undispellable fear immunity, though are not an option for druids.

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisov
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    edited January 16
    Grond0 wrote: »
    My memory is hazy on imprisonment as it's not something you come across often. I think there are a number of others that use it (though it's possible I'm remembering maze):
    - one of the Watcher's Keep seal guardians
    - the lich trapped in the Underdark soul gems
    - the elder orb with the item desired by the Matron Mother

    monico wrote: »
    At @Grond0 : obviously, protection from fear, hold etc is also important, bit there so many ways to protect against them that I am not concerned, whichever class I play.

    I guess you haven't played many druids in early to middle BG2 then :p. Lack of specific fear protection is a significant weakness for them (rare potions of clarity are basically it), though you can get round that fairly easily in the unmodded game by always keeping summons up for enemies to focus on and staying back a good distance from those. In the later game there are more options, but all of them are dispellable which creates its own difficulties.

    I admit, my recent playthroughs (LoB runs and now the no-reloads) were often limited to BG1 & SoD, I haven't played much BG2 lately (because of restartitis also).
    In BG1/SoD, it is easy to protect against fear (there's quite a few potions of clarity, and then there's Kiel's Helmet & Greenstone amulet)
    The last time I finished BG2/ToB was playing around my "unarmed characters" shenanigans (first a group of 3 : monk, shapeshifter, melee-dragon disciple, then a solo run with said melee-dragon disciple, relying on Polymorph spells, which just kicks a$$).

    The last time I played a solo druid in BG2 was a solo Totemic Druid (and I think it was LoB difficulty, not quite sure though). I don't remember much since it was already a long time ago, but I know that my focus was on summons (actually, I prided myself not to do any direct damage with a weapon and spells except for the insect swarms). So I guess my summons did serve as distractions and absorbed those spells, in the rare event that enemy casters could even throw a spell after being hit by an insect swarm.

    I mean, I know it is off topic since my own question was about how to protect against nasty spell effects, but the best protection against a spell is still to not let the enemy throw it at you in the first place :naughty:

    Wise_GrimwaldGrond0
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 254
    What is your opinion on wild mages in no-reload runs? Especially in BG1. Because wild surgers are something on what you can never be properly prepared. Wild surge on sleep in the beginning of game can be fatal. Gated demon is probaly game over. I would like to try Neera for the whole game and not just for her Gem Bag but it seems to be so risky.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,925
    Would surges happen once in a while but as long as you do not target your protagonist there is not that much risk.
    Just don't wild-surge pre-battle to buff because if the gate does happen, you are in trouble.

    The most annoying but fun surge is the cow.

  • monicomonico Member Posts: 445
    solo no-reload wild mage can be fun. Definitely not safe, but fun.

    JuliusBorisov
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,092
    monico wrote: »
    Definitely not safe, but fun.
    I think you just described life itself.

    monicoWise_GrimwaldAerakarArvia
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,092
    Convenient! I don't think Kelddath can be easily charmed with SCS installed, though; I think he has a Chaotic Commands pre-buff.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • jessejmcjessejmc Member Posts: 131
    semiticgod wrote: »
    Convenient! I don't think Kelddath can be easily charmed with SCS installed, though; I think he has a Chaotic Commands pre-buff.

    The above was from a non-modded install. I just tested on SCS v32.7 at Tactical difficulty and was able to charm Kelddath. Unfortunately, he no longer had Animate Dead in his spellbook, so mileage may vary based on his randomized spellbook selection.

    StummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,651
    Can't do any of these convenience tricks as Algernon's Cloak has been nerfed to the extent that the charm doesn't work. :( For battles I'm glad it has been nerfed as it is way too powerful! I used to charm Bassilus, get him to kill Zargal, and then allow a ghoul to hold him before fighting him myself. Clever, but no challenge. Those enemies are supposed to be hard! The first few times I did that I got quite a bit of satisfaction, but that is no longer the case.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,925
    I never even get the cloak anymore just to not use it

    Aerakar
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