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Sandrah Saga For EET

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Comments

  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 514
    cant you just stick sandrah in a corner, unequip her so she doesnt unbalance the game and skip most of her dialogue...as long as it doesnt lead to her attacking/leaving your party and then play the new material, quests etc? still interested in playing this just to try a new mod with lots of new material.

  • GESancManGESancMan Member Posts: 3
    edited January 5
    brunardo wrote: »
    cant you just stick sandrah in a corner,

    One of the most frustrating things about Sandrah the NPC is the custom combat AI in her override script. Selecting an AI script for her is useless, because she'll ignore it (and also ignore most commands you give her). This goes for Jenlig as well. So, putting them in a corner is fruitless, because they will do their own thing regardless of what you tell them. This, I believe, is why Roxanne is so adamant that her mod be installed last - really, I think she just wants it installed after SCS, so that SCS won't mess with her AI scripts.
    brunardo wrote: »
    unequip her so she doesnt unbalance the game

    Sort of.

    Wanna earn some serious cash at the beginning of the game? Here's how:

    1) Pick up Sandrah and make your way to a merchant. Sell all of her equipment. This will net you around 100,000 gp.

    2) As soon as this is done, Sandrah will spawn new copies of all of her equipment.

    3) Become a millionaire in record time!

    But anyway... she can be unequiped, but it doesn't always take. If you put any of her items in another character's inventory, she'll take it back. If you sell or drop it, she spawns new copies. If you boot her from the party then take her back, she will equip all of her stuff. Looking at the code, it appears Roxanne's intent is for Sandrah to immediately re-equip an item if it is unequiped, but her code doesn't work properly.
    brunardo wrote: »
    and skip most of her dialogue...as long as it doesnt lead to her attacking/leaving your party and then play the new material, quests etc?

    Sandrah the NPC is tightly integrated into every last little addition in the mod. There is no way to do *any* of the new content with out her present and conscious. The best you can do is tap through her dialog. Of which there is a copious amount.

    StummvonBordwehrAngulimalaMirandel
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    edited February 8
    I gave up on this MOD initially because of most of the reviews / comments in this thread. I could not imagine why I have to play a MOD that receives so many bad comments. However, my friend keeps telling me to give it a try, eventually, I decided to try it myself because:
    - I really like the idea of this MOD
    - I trust my friend's taste, if he likes something that most people dislike (at least in this thread), there must be something worth trying

    My first impression of this MOD is nothing much different from what many peoples already said in this thread. However, as I proceed further (chapter 6 of BG1 now), most of the thing I dislike initially are no longer disturbing me. For example, I simply don't use any equipment from the MOD, which make some fights quite challenging (interesting) actually. Sandrah also seems stop flirting / having sex with `everyone` after some time (after Nashkel i think). As for `Mary Sue`, I read something that she won't be like this forever. I will see how she changes later, but generally I'm OK with how she is now.

    As of now, I can say I really enjoy the contents added in this MOD. I have not played any MOD which has added so many things and according to the walk-through, it seems like most of the big quests I'm doing now are `bigger` than I thought...those stories will continue in BG2 and RTF, and have some connections to each other or the main quests....

    Now I know why my friend recommended this MOD to me. He knows I love this type of quest's design in WRPG. Yes, this MOD indeed has its flaws, it is not perfect, just like any `good MOD` we have out there. However, I still found it interesting enough for me to continue, in my opinion, it makes the BG1 like a new and bigger game to explore, and I really appreciate the works to make the plots thicken.

    I will see if my opinion changes later. (I hope not!)

    Post edited by marcnivar on
    StummvonBordwehrTimbo0o0o0
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,279
    "My first impression of this MOD is nothing much different from what many peoples already said in this thread. However, as I proceed further (chapter 6 of BG1 now), most of the thing I dislike initially are no longer disturbing me. "

    That's called stockholm syndrome.

    megamike15MirandelMathsorcerer
  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 357
    edited February 8
    After actually reading through all of the mods contents recently I have to actually agree more with your assessment @marcnivar than others to be honest, which is telling on just how important a first impression is. In fact I was tempted to post on the Unpopular Opinions Mod that Sandrah has its strong points and would actually be enjoyable to some people who don't mind less freedom on their PC responses, but I guess I can elaborate here.

    If I had to sum up my opinion, Sandrah has potential to be one of the great NPC mods due to its sheer content, but falls far short because of first impressions and the execution of the writing and NPC interactions, as well as the modder's interactions with others and behavior on this site, which is also important.

    It would be a great Neverwinter Nights mod, because the rules there are different and your character could be more or less guided. But it definitely has a shift with the rest of Baldur's Gate with how the player responses are written.

    The romantic scenes are a little too adult in some places to fit Baldur's Gate T rating, the mod would be rated M for sure, but I think that's fine if that's the style you want. Some people might like that.

    The mod's conclusion in ToB does have some PC influence, a bad CHARNAME could have a lot of people suddenly hostile, including Sandrah, if they mess up and their entire party just drop out to watch, which I found pretty amusing, and totally curious if a CHARNAME could somehow win this battle.

    If I could immediately recommend one change, it would be the ability to call her out and form a different opinion beyond "Sandrah is breathtaking beautiful." There is nothing wrong with her having multiple hook-ups, some people are charming enough to entice people to such arrangements and enjoy a quick fling, but allow <CHARNAME> to be jealous or think it improper because they're more traditional about love and argue. If everything Sandrah does is not perceived to be perfect/well-received, she would not be a Mary-Sue, and that would probably fix one part of the first impression. There are someplaces where you can, but ultimately the paths didn't vary enough from observation.

    Sarah has a ton of cross-mod. Some of it even adds extra material to those characters, which is actually pretty cool. That is its main strong point IMO, it plays very well with other mods and adds more to them.

    Balancing Items is rather easy, I think just listening and implementing feedback usually helps get the numbers to the right place.

    I did like what I saw from the quests too.

    I guess ultimately it is the age old question of how much should an NPC mod focus on the NPC character? I think due to criticism other mods have gotten, some NPC mods do not give enough information about themselves, they avoid any quests of exploration, and I think that is a miss. Over-focus can be bad too, which Sandrah suffers, but it can be fun exploring someone else's story.

    As I said before though, I would love to see Roxanne tackle a new project. I think as they got further along in their mod they got better, so I would bet their next project would actually be much better.

    TL:DR; Sandrah is not the worst mod ever and has its bright points. In fact, I would give that distinction to Lord Miraboo's original Imoen Romance mod, 1.202 (The 3.0 series is so much better). The 1.202 version handles mature themes very, very poorly, and ultimately has poor execution all over the place. That alone says there is potential for strong growth for Sandrah if the mod author wants to revisit it and adjust aspects, or in their next project. I'm confident they'll do a much better job.

    marcnivarTimbo0o0o0StummvonBordwehr
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    edited February 8
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    "My first impression of this MOD is nothing much different from what many peoples already said in this thread. However, as I proceed further (chapter 6 of BG1 now), most of the thing I dislike initially are no longer disturbing me. "

    That's called stockholm syndrome.

    As explained before, if someone did something I don't like but she changed her behavior after that, I do not need to have whatever syndrome to change my opinion of that person. If I don't like a game initially doesn't mean I need to have whatever syndrome to have different opinion after seeing other interesting parts of that game.

    Post edited by marcnivar on
  • MirandelMirandel Member Posts: 511
    Welcome back, Roxanne! Forums missed you :)

    With all seriousness, though, there are many reasons to try the cheesiest of them all additions to the games. Have you seen some Skyrim make-ups/costumes? Or take any Korean MMO - the looked is so eclectic bizarre chaotic with every element clashes with another, and yet millions are enjoying it. So, nothing wrong here. All you need is to understand what you are signing up for.

    1. You loose the main story - Baalspawn is no more a protagonist but a sidekick (Sandrah Saga, remember?)
    2. You loose side-stories as well - it is still about Sandrah and NPCs talk to her, not you.
    3. You loose NPCs: the old one have different personalities (sorry, they have ONE personality now - deeply in love with Sandrah, with badly written modern language confessions of said love at every opportunity), the new one are important for new quests, hence, mandatory if you came for the content. So, old-companions-be-gone.
    4. You loose the combat part of the game - Sandrah (and new NPCs) will solve every encounter for you with their OP equipment and skills.

    Do you get anything for all these losses? Sure!

    1. Obvious things - a huge new story with the new NPCs/areas, made of the same models and roughly in the same timeline. Bad quality, but new.
    2. A mix of almost every mod out there. And those mods will work together! Story-wise, it might not make sense (sometimes), but those mods will be there and will play without crashes (for the most part)! You want to see what community came up with for the last years? Install Sandrah and enjoy. If you want to see those mods "as is" - ignore Snadrah. You will miss her part, but can get other mods in their purity.
    3. God Mod without need to switch that god-mod on - OP equipment will do it for you.


    The only reason to never give the mod a chance would be if you truly care about copyright - as in "do not change mods from others without their permission". If such things bother you - do not install the mod, because Sandrah includes every other work without regards of other mods integrity. Other then that - as always, check it up yourself (and be prepared to pay for your curiosity ;) ).

    StummvonBordwehr
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    edited February 9
    Mirandel wrote: »
    Welcome back, Roxanne! Forums missed you :)

    With all seriousness, though, there are many reasons to try the cheesiest of them all additions to the games. Have you seen some Skyrim make-ups/costumes? Or take any Korean MMO - the looked is so eclectic bizarre chaotic with every element clashes with another, and yet millions are enjoying it. So, nothing wrong here. All you need is to understand what you are signing up for.

    1. You loose the main story - Baalspawn is no more a protagonist but a sidekick (Sandrah Saga, remember?)
    2. You loose side-stories as well - it is still about Sandrah and NPCs talk to her, not you.
    3. You loose NPCs: the old one have different personalities (sorry, they have ONE personality now - deeply in love with Sandrah, with badly written modern language confessions of said love at every opportunity), the new one are important for new quests, hence, mandatory if you came for the content. So, old-companions-be-gone.
    4. You loose the combat part of the game - Sandrah (and new NPCs) will solve every encounter for you with their OP equipment and skills.

    Do you get anything for all these losses? Sure!

    1. Obvious things - a huge new story with the new NPCs/areas, made of the same models and roughly in the same timeline. Bad quality, but new.
    2. A mix of almost every mod out there. And those mods will work together! Story-wise, it might not make sense (sometimes), but those mods will be there and will play without crashes (for the most part)! You want to see what community came up with for the last years? Install Sandrah and enjoy. If you want to see those mods "as is" - ignore Snadrah. You will miss her part, but can get other mods in their purity.
    3. God Mod without need to switch that god-mod on - OP equipment will do it for you.


    The only reason to never give the mod a chance would be if you truly care about copyright - as in "do not change mods from others without their permission". If such things bother you - do not install the mod, because Sandrah includes every other work without regards of other mods integrity. Other then that - as always, check it up yourself (and be prepared to pay for your curiosity ;) ).

    I was just saying the MOD has some contents that I found it interesting, but...Wow! see how people here reacted...One insulted me with whatever syndrome...and the other one accused me as Roxanne's alt...

    Feel free to say anything bad about this MOD or the author, everyone can have their opinions. We have to respect that. I hope you can do the same. At least, do some investigation before accusing other people.


    ----


    Go back to what I wanted to say initially.

    I just finished the quests of the Isle of Balduran...Surprisingly, I found that Sandrah's Saga has added an alternative peaceful solution for this quest. Really appreciate that, during my previous play-through, I really hate killing all of the villagers which I helped them in the side quests, such as the girl who is looking for her doll.

    StummvonBordwehrTimbo0o0o0
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,279
    @Skitia "Sarah has a ton of cross-mod. Some of it even adds extra material to those characters, which is actually pretty cool. That is its main strong point IMO, it plays very well with other mods and adds more to them."

    Actually, this is another huge problem with the mod. Roxxanne wrote a lot of dialogue for other peoples' characters without asking for permission, and directly against their wishes in some cases.


    @marcnivar You're initial post is INCREDIBLY similar to dozens of other posts by a Roxanne alt. Chill with the indignation. Nobody insulted you.

    megamike15
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,042
    I semi-jokingly made a comment previously of doing a Let's (not) Play of this thing in which I go through it piece by piece highlighting everything that's wrong about it. Do I actually need to do this?

    ArthasIIBallpointMan
  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 357
    edited February 9
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Skitia "Sarah has a ton of cross-mod. Some of it even adds extra material to those characters, which is actually pretty cool. That is its main strong point IMO, it plays very well with other mods and adds more to them."

    Actually, this is another huge problem with the mod. Roxxanne wrote a lot of dialogue for other peoples' characters without asking for permission, and directly against their wishes in some cases.


    @marcnivar You're initial post is INCREDIBLY similar to dozens of other posts by a Roxanne alt. Chill with the indignation. Nobody insulted you.

    I had thought she had removed cases of dialogues created against their wishes , so wasn't going to overly hold it against her. I can see and understand some mod authors including things of long-deactivated modders they can't get a hold of, or even without asking, but still doing so after they say "Don't", is messed up, if true.

    Though I don't see Marcnivar as being anything remotely close to a Roxanne Alt, and I would probably be offended if I was even jokingly accused as being her in fairness.

    @StummvonBordwehr I wouldn't hold what a "disciple" does against Roxanne (Unless she includes said artwork and miscredits it.) I guess beyond a plea to be ethical there isn't much we can do. It's sad that people need to lie about it. I'd rather the artists get the credit (I.E., Recorder's Artist, Nicole Cadet over at https://www.nicolecadet.com/ is nothing /short/ of amazing.) We will see more of that amazing work if we credit the right people (And pay them so they can keep doing it.)

    Which is why I'm hopeful their next project, if they ever do anything else, takes all the bad from this one and learns from it. It would be nice to see someone redeem their reputation. Because while it is a mod with a lot of "wrongs" as AionZ states, I still hold it's not the worst mod ever...just a mod with the poorest reputation. Only the old Imoen mod and Chosen of Mystra is really comparable in terms of reputation, and the Imoen Mod really cleaned up its reputation into a much more well liked current incarnation, and well, newer people probably don't know about the CoM stories as much.

    StummvonBordwehrmarcnivar
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 852
    It’s ok @Skitia. I should have made my self more clear the first time around

    I was talking about the Sea tower mods. I shall see if I got the story straight:

    A modder presented it self on this site seeking help and feedback. We all stood in awe by the beautiful art work, but then learned that it was borrowed without consent.

    To absolutely no surprise the site users on this site asked the said modder to seek consent and repair what was broken. But to no avail. The mod was finished later with a big helping hand from Roxanne. Who seemingly was the only one given credit (oh the irony..)

    The modder who made the artwork originally finished his/her mod with the help from the G3 crew. And thank you for that.

    The copycat modder thusly became a Roxanne disciple as I see it. Another modder with no respect for the rest of the community. And yes I do blame Roxanne for that. She should know better by now

    jasteyLudwig_II
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    edited February 10
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Skitia "Sarah has a ton of cross-mod. Some of it even adds extra material to those characters, which is actually pretty cool. That is its main strong point IMO, it plays very well with other mods and adds more to them."

    Actually, this is another huge problem with the mod. Roxxanne wrote a lot of dialogue for other peoples' characters without asking for permission, and directly against their wishes in some cases.


    @marcnivar You're initial post is INCREDIBLY similar to dozens of other posts by a Roxanne alt. Chill with the indignation. Nobody insulted you.

    I just mentioned my opinions for this MOD. Then...

    Someone told me I have some kind of mental condition.

    Someone greeted me as the alt of someone which could have caused my account being banned.

    And they justified this because my post is similar to someone alt...Everything just based on guessing, without any solid reason or investigation, simply assumption...

    Surprisingly, I didn't get any proper apologize and they don't think they offended other people.

    And some were talking about respecting other people here when this happen.

    I found this INCREDIBLY interesting.

    ---

    Thanks @Skitia , at least I'm not the only one who consider this can offend other people.


    Post edited by marcnivar on
    Timbo0o0o0
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 269
    So if any feel that the replies in this thread are a bit toxic, it has its reasons. I am sorry if any feel chastised in this thread, just be aware that this subject is toxic and your posts inadvertently causes some lash back from a situation yet unresolved. So feel free to post as you like in here, but be aware that this thread may be the most toxic thread on this forum (that still exists...). The other not Roxanne threads are for instance quite mellow.

    I love reading toxic threads, but I don't want anyone to feel sad or offended. Is it possible to have both at the same time?

    marcnivarStummvonBordwehrIsewein
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,279
    @marcnivar No, what happened is that I made a joke because you said the mod stopped bothering you after awhile. Another poster made a joke about roxanne alts, because your phrasing is similar to dozens of other posts made by accounts confirmed to be her alts. Nobody accused you of having a disorder or of being roxanne. If its was serious, mods would have already been investigating your account.

    For someone complaining about respect, you seem to be going out of your way to assume the worst of everyone else.

    Mirandel
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,130
    really we only ever get bad in topics about bg3 and Roxanne. normally we are rather civil.

    StummvonBordwehrThacoBellBallpointMan
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 852
    Why don’t we wrap it up for today? The many Roxanne alts from the first pages in this thread is perhaps getting the better of us? Let’s try to be welcoming and forthcoming - the general view on Roxanne and her actions is pretty obvious anyway.

    OlvynChuruJuliusBorisov
  • Ludwig_IILudwig_II Member Posts: 269
    megamike15 wrote: »
    really we only ever get bad in topics about bg3 and Roxanne. normally we are rather civil.

    Thanks for the tip, let me go read bg3 threads now :#

    StummvonBordwehr
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @marcnivar No, what happened is that I made a joke because you said the mod stopped bothering you after awhile. Another poster made a joke about roxanne alts, because your phrasing is similar to dozens of other posts made by accounts confirmed to be her alts. Nobody accused you of having a disorder or of being roxanne. If its was serious, mods would have already been investigating your account.

    For someone complaining about respect, you seem to be going out of your way to assume the worst of everyone else.

    So if someone say something like I have mental syndrome and I am someone else alt (who previously had multiple alt being banned), I should automatically perceive this as a joke, and if I don't or if I feel offended, it is my problem of thinking worst of everyone...

    I am sorry as I couldn't get the logic behind this, so I will stop here.

    DJKajuru
  • marcnivarmarcnivar Member Posts: 27
    edited February 11
    Ludwig_II wrote: »
    So if any feel that the replies in this thread are a bit toxic, it has its reasons. I am sorry if any feel chastised in this thread, just be aware that this subject is toxic and your posts inadvertently causes some lash back from a situation yet unresolved. So feel free to post as you like in here, but be aware that this thread may be the most toxic thread on this forum (that still exists...). The other not Roxanne threads are for instance quite mellow.

    I love reading toxic threads, but I don't want anyone to feel sad or offended. Is it possible to have both at the same time?
    @Ludwig_II and @marcnivar
    Off course we can. And I am sorry if we all lashed out. For that I apologise.

    I was just trying to explain why we all acted like we did, but did not consider that I thusly became a part of the problem.

    So with out further ado: @marcnivar, welcome to the forum. You are most welcome here. I reckon that you have just witnessed the most toxic threads in this forum, so feel free to stick around. The other threads are quite jovial (well besides the politics thread...).

    In general we try to uphold a very positive attitude at this site, but this particular topic is quite toxic. We shall do our utmost not to hold that against you - and anybody else.

    And as noted before, I do love the idea behind the mod, so your reports are most welcome.

    I sincerely hope that Roxanne will reach out, make the necessary reparations and be redeemed. The modding scene is noted for its friendly and cooperative approach, and Roxanne should be a part of that - not be on the outside by her own choosing. But that’s another story.

    Hi , I am sorry if my previous post looks like getting you involved. It was not my intention. I was just unhappy with what those two said here. I appreciate your efforts to explain the things out.

    Post edited by marcnivar on
    StummvonBordwehrJuliusBorisov
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 10,279
    marcnivar wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @marcnivar No, what happened is that I made a joke because you said the mod stopped bothering you after awhile. Another poster made a joke about roxanne alts, because your phrasing is similar to dozens of other posts made by accounts confirmed to be her alts. Nobody accused you of having a disorder or of being roxanne. If its was serious, mods would have already been investigating your account.

    For someone complaining about respect, you seem to be going out of your way to assume the worst of everyone else.

    So if someone say something like I have mental syndrome and I am someone else alt (who previously had multiple alt being banned), I should automatically perceive this as a joke, and if I don't or if I feel offended, it is my problem of thinking worst of everyone...

    I am sorry as I couldn't get the logic behind this, so I will stop here.

    No, what I'm saying is that when these people tell you they were joking, you should take them at their word. Being combative is not helping.

    Mirandel
  • SkitiaSkitia Member Posts: 357
    In fairness, it was a poor joke. Marcnivar's reaction is totally understandable here.

    marcnivar
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 940
    Skitia wrote: »
    In fairness, it was a poor joke. Marcnivar's reaction is totally understandable here.

    I dont know, I thought it was pretty clever.


    I always come back to the thought that in concept, the idea of Sandrah's Saga isnt a terrible one. At least, when distilled and not including the vast majority of the mod (which I havent really played much of, but have read about)

    Sarevok acts as a foil to Charname, having similar-ish circumstances with a wildly different worldview/objective. The idea of another NPC that travels along with Charname that operates as another foil is pretty interesting (Especially since Sarevok as a foil isnt evident until late into the game).

    Imoen serves are that in a fashion, but based on the lack of content for her in BG1, that's basically a non-starter.

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