Roxanne has pretty good english from what I can tell of online comments, not sure why exactly the creative writing is so much harder for me to comprehend in the game.
Roxanne has pretty good english from what I can tell of online comments, not sure why exactly the creative writing is so much harder for me to comprehend in the game.
I've been reading the let's play thread linked above, and her english seems to get worse the further you get into the hack. Its almost like you can tell the point where volunteer proof readers couldn't take anymore.
@Vichan, I've been following your LP for some time now, and just wanted to thank you for doing this. Regarding Haiass for EET [Edit: outdated stuff deleted]
I love how Roxanne used dropInventory() on Vichan to punish him for not being nice to Sandrah as you showcased back in chapter 2.
I recently tried to find a way out of having to romance Sandrah without breaking the mod. Early on in BG1, at her fourth morning talk, when she asks if you're awake, if you incongruently tell her "No, how could I with everyone disturbing me", she will storm off and leave the party; but you can recruit her again at the temple of the Morning Lord. If you do that and then rescue Branwen, Sandrah will actually walk up to the poor woman-just-out-of-petrification, complain that her own relationship with you has hit a snag, and tell Branwen that since you now have another loving priestess, Sandrah will back off. (Branwen then talks Sandrah into staying in the party, because of course.) Still trying to find out if this actually changes anything.
"<CHARNAME> and I have not gone along so well lately. He has rather rudely rebuked my feelings for him. I stayed with him to accomplish this task, but now you are freed, I think he has another cleric and fighter by his side and I am no longer needed. Please take care of him for me, will you."
Remember her initial greeting: "You desperately need help. You need MY help." Clearly Charname is implicitly assumed to be all muscle and no brains but fortunately she can change you from yourself into the god of (sexual) love and (nominally) hope and you should be grateful. The end.
Edit: Wow I'm being quoted.
Oh my god. @Vichan, I read your LP up to about Beregost and I can't take any more; it's even worse than a modern-day Saerileth. Here I thought Saerileth was the worst BG modding had to offer after reading Shugojin's BG2 LP Archive years ago. I knew Sandrah was bad from being universally panned by everyone who isn't Roxanne, but I never realized the sheer scope of it all. Even Saerileth can SHUT THE HELL UP FOR FIVE MINUTES and look at how Roxanne massacred Imoen and Khalid and Kivan and EVERYONE and aaaaAAAAAAAAAAA
I've been thinking about Sandrah, and it's making me wonder if there aren't any inarticulate character in baldurs gate who regard our favorite Bhaalspawn with the same loathing that is visible for Sandrah in this community and over at something awful. When you really stop and think does the world makes Sandrah the centre of the universe anymore than it does us, the players? BG2 in particular cranks it up a level or two because it seems like the player character attracts quests and powerful people like a lodestone.
I've been thinking about Sandrah, and it's making me wonder if there aren't any inarticulate character in baldurs gate who regard our favorite Bhaalspawn with the same loathing that is visible for Sandrah in this community and over at something awful. When you really stop and think does the world makes Sandrah the centre of the universe anymore than it does us, the players? BG2 in particular cranks it up a level or two because it seems like the player character attracts quests and powerful people like a lodestone.
Doesn't the main character inexplicably attract quests and people in quite a few games, movies, books though?
It would have been better IMO for Sandrah to simply replace the main character. In order for her to become the main character without technically removing the PC, Sandrah needs to know better, come better equipped, be more up to the task in general at all times, and other NPCs such as Edwin need to be downplayed. Your PC needs to be downplayed as well. I'm not sure about in-game characters loathing Charname, but the assumption in this mod seems to be that Charname is rather slow on the uptake and in need of babysitting. Apart from the descriptions of Sandrah's items and a letter from her father early on, four to five people need to mention "El..." before Charname finally connects the dots and asks Sandrah who her father is, and then only hesitantly. There are many things like that.
IMO the reaction to Sandrah is due to poor game design at a conceptual level. Using tricks such as having the PC drop all his/her stuff when Sandrah the character would have no way of achieving this; or having Sandrah 'identify' the Girdle of Gender without it actually being identified in-game (and the mod then going so far as to replace the non-cursed girdle from the Cursed Items Revision mod, if present, with a cursed one because Sandrah when 'identifying' it says it's cursed); or giving the player the choice to either listen to Sandrah's advice or end up in an infinite loop (some dialogue in the FAI area)... such things are poor game design at a technical level as well.
I've been thinking about Sandrah, and it's making me wonder if there aren't any inarticulate character in baldurs gate who regard our favorite Bhaalspawn with the same loathing that is visible for Sandrah in this community and over at something awful. When you really stop and think does the world makes Sandrah the centre of the universe anymore than it does us, the players? BG2 in particular cranks it up a level or two because it seems like the player character attracts quests and powerful people like a lodestone.
The big difference is, charname is the actual main character of the game. The story and everything else was built around them. Can you imagine a big sweeping story about divine blood and destiny, but the player is forced to be an npc? That's not how games work.
I don't have a problem with mod NPCs that have quests that are important to them. I actually like mod NPCs that have an interesting story or quest to solve. Isra, for instance, brings in a nice bit of family intrigue that weaves in well with existing Athkatlan characters. However, there comes a point where modders need to realize that their NPC is a party member, not the protagonist.
It's a shame about Sandrah, though, as there are few NPCs designed specifically for EET. While several have full quadrology content, and carry through pretty seamlessly, a properly designed EET NPC could involve using the whole map more effectively, thus making an EET build really feel more like one huge game.
@Maurvir A good npc to take for the trilogy is Sirene. Her personal quest mirrors charname's, just on a smaller scale (no deities). It was pretty interesting to have another party member who also struggled with a disconnect between heritage and their own morality. Her writer did a good job of making her relate to the pc's problems without taking center stage.
Vichan: "Are you talking to me?" The Sandrah mod Sir Sarles: "Not really, I rather need the more distinguished knowledge of your companion."
The people over at the LP thread seem rather worn out by now. Hang in there, Vichan, you may make it to the other side!
I noticed that quite a few area maps in the Sandrah mod, and Sandrah's scripts as well, use the CV modder prefix (Cuv). Maybe there's some story here that I don't want to know. I'm curious where the artwork's from, though.
The longer I keep up on this LP, the more and more convinced I am that Vichan is probably the first person besides Roxxanne to ever play through this whole thing. It just keeps going and going.
It's rather depressing to see so many high quality maps from other unfinished mods get used this way. Imagine having put in all that work only to see it used like this.
I would carry on and provide emotional support for you in this monumental undertaking, however the website is still pay-to-view. I cannot help you. I gave up ages ago anyway, shortly before Nashkel mines I suspect back when the content was still 70% not Sandrah.
Finally caught up from the time it went members-only. Although eventually I just scrolled past pages and pages of total BS. One can only take so much of "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing".
Sorry, Vichan, for disrespecting your detailed work by ignoring thousands of lines of text in hundreds of screenshots. But your greater sacrifice, your sanity, will be remembered for revealing just how absolute, ABSOLUTE GARBAGE and TRASH this mod is.
It steals other modders' content. It steals art from other games, even other genres. You know how jarring it is to see DIABLO II map art in BG2 screenshots? I do now.
It butchers Baldur's Gate series canonicity, even the greater Forgotten Realms canonicity. It butchers its OWN canonicity. In the end, it all but shatters the fourth wall with a ton of self-identified self-fulfilling prophecies. The "extra" content looks to be little more than an exercise in masturbation with Forgotten Realms lore on one hand and absolute raping of characters' CHARACTER on the other.
This travesty, this is the kind of thing that Intellectual Property holders should SUE over.
The journey is complete. I laughed, I cried, I curled into a fetal ball and prayed to an uncaring universe that it would finally be over.
Congratulations @Vichan. I'm glad that you were able to provide a window into this strange corner of the BG modding community, where one person's obsession with the game created this singular mammoth work that would likely be otherwise unseen by anyone. Oh, it's a bad mod, certainly, and the theft of other modder's work is egregious. But I think there's something to be said for the sheer quantity of effort that was put into it and it deserves to be examined by future internet scholars for all time.
Comments
At least it wasn't with Boo.
I've been reading the let's play thread linked above, and her english seems to get worse the further you get into the hack. Its almost like you can tell the point where volunteer proof readers couldn't take anymore.
I love how Roxanne used dropInventory() on Vichan to punish him for not being nice to Sandrah as you showcased back in chapter 2.
I recently tried to find a way out of having to romance Sandrah without breaking the mod. Early on in BG1, at her fourth morning talk, when she asks if you're awake, if you incongruently tell her "No, how could I with everyone disturbing me", she will storm off and leave the party; but you can recruit her again at the temple of the Morning Lord. If you do that and then rescue Branwen, Sandrah will actually walk up to the poor woman-just-out-of-petrification, complain that her own relationship with you has hit a snag, and tell Branwen that since you now have another loving priestess, Sandrah will back off. (Branwen then talks Sandrah into staying in the party, because of course.) Still trying to find out if this actually changes anything. Remember her initial greeting: "You desperately need help. You need MY help." Clearly Charname is implicitly assumed to be all muscle and no brains but fortunately she can change you from yourself into the god of (sexual) love and (nominally) hope and you should be grateful. The end.
Edit: Wow I'm being quoted.
IOW, the way people split up NPC couples before mods.
I wonder if anyone tried that? Most likely would not help, though. She would either have immunity to petrification, or would ... charm the basilisk.
Doesn't the main character inexplicably attract quests and people in quite a few games, movies, books though?
It would have been better IMO for Sandrah to simply replace the main character. In order for her to become the main character without technically removing the PC, Sandrah needs to know better, come better equipped, be more up to the task in general at all times, and other NPCs such as Edwin need to be downplayed. Your PC needs to be downplayed as well. I'm not sure about in-game characters loathing Charname, but the assumption in this mod seems to be that Charname is rather slow on the uptake and in need of babysitting. Apart from the descriptions of Sandrah's items and a letter from her father early on, four to five people need to mention "El..." before Charname finally connects the dots and asks Sandrah who her father is, and then only hesitantly. There are many things like that.
IMO the reaction to Sandrah is due to poor game design at a conceptual level. Using tricks such as having the PC drop all his/her stuff when Sandrah the character would have no way of achieving this; or having Sandrah 'identify' the Girdle of Gender without it actually being identified in-game (and the mod then going so far as to replace the non-cursed girdle from the Cursed Items Revision mod, if present, with a cursed one because Sandrah when 'identifying' it says it's cursed); or giving the player the choice to either listen to Sandrah's advice or end up in an infinite loop (some dialogue in the FAI area)... such things are poor game design at a technical level as well.
The big difference is, charname is the actual main character of the game. The story and everything else was built around them. Can you imagine a big sweeping story about divine blood and destiny, but the player is forced to be an npc? That's not how games work.
It's a shame about Sandrah, though, as there are few NPCs designed specifically for EET. While several have full quadrology content, and carry through pretty seamlessly, a properly designed EET NPC could involve using the whole map more effectively, thus making an EET build really feel more like one huge game.
The Sandrah mod Sir Sarles: "Not really, I rather need the more distinguished knowledge of your companion."
The people over at the LP thread seem rather worn out by now. Hang in there, Vichan, you may make it to the other side!
I noticed that quite a few area maps in the Sandrah mod, and Sandrah's scripts as well, use the CV modder prefix (Cuv). Maybe there's some story here that I don't want to know. I'm curious where the artwork's from, though.
It's rather depressing to see so many high quality maps from other unfinished mods get used this way. Imagine having put in all that work only to see it used like this.
then i got spared as i always felt getting an eet install was to combersome.
Could you please clarify what you mean?
If you're referring to the edit to this thread, a few comments were going off topic and were split into a separate thread, you can find it here.
The LP will probably be archived as soon as I'm done, though.
I for one can't wait to be done with it.
A good thing, too. The final chapter of this nightmare will be up this weekend.
Sorry, Vichan, for disrespecting your detailed work by ignoring thousands of lines of text in hundreds of screenshots. But your greater sacrifice, your sanity, will be remembered for revealing just how absolute, ABSOLUTE GARBAGE and TRASH this mod is.
It steals other modders' content. It steals art from other games, even other genres. You know how jarring it is to see DIABLO II map art in BG2 screenshots? I do now.
It butchers Baldur's Gate series canonicity, even the greater Forgotten Realms canonicity. It butchers its OWN canonicity. In the end, it all but shatters the fourth wall with a ton of self-identified self-fulfilling prophecies. The "extra" content looks to be little more than an exercise in masturbation with Forgotten Realms lore on one hand and absolute raping of characters' CHARACTER on the other.
This travesty, this is the kind of thing that Intellectual Property holders should SUE over.
Congratulations @Vichan. I'm glad that you were able to provide a window into this strange corner of the BG modding community, where one person's obsession with the game created this singular mammoth work that would likely be otherwise unseen by anyone. Oh, it's a bad mod, certainly, and the theft of other modder's work is egregious. But I think there's something to be said for the sheer quantity of effort that was put into it and it deserves to be examined by future internet scholars for all time.