With regards to the enquiries over whether the devs should have just released earlier patches with various bugs hotfixed out, I agree that would be a great idea on paper.
However, from my experience in the beta test, where we tend to get these sort of patches more often, putting a build together can really cause all sorts of unintended consequences. I'm sure plenty of the devs and modders know more about how this works than I do, but I think that just releasing a hotfix build to fix the firebead quest for example, is not as viable as it sounds.
Perhaps one of the team members would be able to comment about it in more detail?
What we are talking about here is maintaining multiple branches. There are a few difficulties with that in our case:
1) Binary assets: much of the game content is binary files which we are not able to decompile to a text source. This makes merging development from different branches very difficult. WeiDU makes this a little better, but as you might have seen with mod compatibility issues, this is not a seamless effort.
2) This is a small development team: Maintaining and testing multiple branches is resource intensive. We've been pushing the limits in developing and testing two different products (BGEE and BG2EE) and we have to balance our desire to release a BGEE update with our need to complete work on the BG2EE development according to our contractual obligations.
3) Cross platform multiplayer: we need to try to keep the versions synchronized across platforms. This adds to the test burden for each release.
Could it technically be done? Yes. However, given the time, resource and technical constraints, we decided not to go this route. We hear your desire for more frequent / more timely updates, and we are considering different options for meeting that desire.
The boss said that the next update should be released before the end of May, which is the end of the week. Will you be able to make it ?
We're hopeful, but until the patch is 100% ready for release you can understand that it's unwise to promise a specific release date. Rest assured that when the patch is ready it will be released, and we won't release it ahead of time if we discover something that needs to be fixed beforehand. It's not the most pleasant of situations for users, especially if you've been waiting for something specific (see also, "Anyone with an Intel Integrated Graphics chip"), but in order to ensure that the patch is stable and solid we sometimes have to ignore the eagerness of the fans.
So while we're still hopeful that we might have it ready for the 31st, I can't make any guarantees. But a delayed patch just means a more polished one, which is good for everyone in the long run.
I can't agree your points… If developer can't meet their promise date , why does he say new patch will come somehow of May?
If they don't have confident for assure the delivery date , it's better to say nothing , otherwise all of players check the forum every day and someone doesn't play for waiting New patch , just because you guys say the new update will come before May ,
So, as the patch is near at it's end, can i have a feedback if the ranged attack bug is solved on this patch? And about the Environment Sound Bug in AR800 (Baldur's Gate entrance)?
Also, in some specific situations (everytime an mustard Jelly appear for example), the game apparently start to work with difficult, with a serie of minor freezes and slow motions.
Don't see a point in recreating the old movies, the new ones are good enough and when i want a bit more of nostalgia i play the old game.
I didn't mean moving original movies to BG:EE, but recreating every of them, cause they missed few (Beregost, Gnoll Stronghold, Wyvern). I like new ones (especially rest and death), but have to admit they a bit too static sometimes.
And You can still read this at the Main Page: "New Cinematics All of the Baldur's Gate cinematics have been replaced with beautifully hand painted animated cinematics, directed by Nat Jones"
What is definitely not true. There are still many missing movies, for example the movies for sunrise and sunset. This is causing freeze in Multiplayer games, or causing an unending loop of "game paused, movie loading" at the screen. The already available movies are too cold, too short, without the fun and horror of the originals. You removed this announcement and advertisement once, this was childish to place it again to your Main Page, and is a lie.
You removed this announcement and advertisement once, this was childish to place it again to your Main Page, and is a lie.
I agree with this part. Announcement should definitely be removed and an apology issued for the people who thought it represented the literal truth when they bought the game.
Relax guys, really. Yes we all would like the new patch, and yes I have been checking this page of the forums every day, but honestly I couldn't think of anything worse then the dev's being rushed to bring out something before it's done - possibly with something game breaking because they didn't test enough. Then there could be a ton of other things players could complain about.
@Dee has been kind enough to let us know it 'should' be finished for the 31st. Likely not before and possibly a little late. That's good enough for me.
I've been waiting long enough, but as the patch brings Intel Graphics Card support (please, correct me if I'm wrong), I can wait a whole month more if necessary (or more :P). I agree with Dee, a delayed patch is a more polished patch and at the same time a more pleasant patch. Imagine all the rage if they released a buggy patch.
To be honest, I'd rather the entire development team just hold off BGII:EE and any other planned features and focus on correcting all the bugs in BG:EE first. I wouldn't mind waiting extra for BGII:EE if it means having a perfected BG:EE to play with along with a lot more mod compatibility with all the existing bugs already fixed.
@Heinrich - I agree on that point but as was stated above, there is apparently something contractual which is forcing the issue. From what I understand, fixing BG:EE will also have a positive impact on BG2:EE. For example: once they get the cross platform multi-player, and compatibility with other platforms down, applying them to BG2:EE will be a breeze.
To be honest, I'd rather the entire development team just hold off BGII:EE and any other planned features and focus on correcting all the bugs in BG:EE first. I wouldn't mind waiting extra for BGII:EE if it means having a perfected BG:EE to play with along with a lot more mod compatibility with all the existing bugs already fixed.
Considering both will now use the exact same engine, developing BG2EE will bring fixes for BGEE and maybe even more gameplay content.
To confirm: There is a contractual obligation to release BG2EE in a certain time frame (no, we can't tell you when that is). BGEE engine improvements will have a direct, positive impact on BG2EE, and vice versa. Modding tools will have to adapt to the updated file formats, but maintaining compatibility is still a priority where posssible.
Of course, one thing these forums showed me is that according to some players, "playable" is a very malleable concept.
Playable as in I can not run into 20+ bugs by chapter 5, a number of which are CTD, a number of them are looping dialog that can't be stopped and a number of them are broken quests that don't function? Eventually even the small bugs over time, with enough of them will stop you from playing a game that hasn't been updated in 3 months with only vague promises of eventual 'lots of fixes'. I don't care if Overhaul bit off more than they can chew, they forfeited that right when they took my money and promised a number of things that are still not reality 5 months after release.
And this isn't even going into the non-playable bugs of the video cards, or the multiplayer bugs which make it a frustrating and trying experience. I'm glad you can either not experience, or ignore these things and still enjoy the game, but there are far too many things to consider this Enhanced by any scope of the word until they get the basic game functioning without a fundamentally buggy experience.
@zenblack - If I remember correctly, the original BG and BG2 had a bunch of bugs similar to the ones you are discussing. I remember my CN Swashy being hit with a bug in Jaheira's romance effectively preventing it from continuing. I still continued to play, just as I would now if I came across such bugs. It doesn't ruin the experience on my side.
The only bug I have found so far is Tethtoril's scroll...WHY WON'T YOU GIMME SCROLL TETH! WHY!
So this is nothing new. At least the dev's are going out of their way to finally eradicate all bugs from the original game - something that would be difficult due to the age of the code, and that the code isn't their own in the first place.
Imagine being a Playstation owner and trying to play Skyrim - games have bugs. Bugs will be fixed. Some take longer to fix than others.
I don't know about anybody else but my old BG game discs refuse to work for me on any modern machine - the fact that I can now play it across numerous different platforms is incredible for me. I had thought that this game was lost to me forever.
I am confident all will be fixed soon and then we can have a mostly bug-free BG2 on release.
@zenblack - If I remember correctly, the original BG and BG2 had a bunch of bugs similar to the ones you are discussing. I remember my CN Swashy being hit with a bug in Jaheira's romance effectively preventing it from continuing. I still continued to play, just as I would now if I came across such bugs. It doesn't ruin the experience on my side.
The only bug I have found so far is Tethtoril's scroll...WHY WON'T YOU GIMME SCROLL TETH! WHY!
So this is nothing new. At least the dev's are going out of their way to finally eradicate all bugs from the original game - something that would be difficult due to the age of the code, and that the code isn't their own in the first place.
Imagine being a Playstation owner and trying to play Skyrim - games have bugs. Bugs will be fixed. Some take longer to fix than others.
I don't know about anybody else but my old BG game discs refuse to work for me on any modern machine - the fact that I can now play it across numerous different platforms is incredible for me. I had thought that this game was lost to me forever.
I am confident all will be fixed soon and then we can have a mostly bug-free BG2 on release.
How are you confident when the only example of Overhauls work is that it's buggy even 5 months after release, without being fixed. I can be optimistic, but it doesn't change reality.
@zenblack Well they do have an advantage with BG2:EE since it will use the already existing BG:EE engine, which means that there should be no new engine-related bugs in BG2:EE. However, they are working with a tight schedule and they do need to release BG2:EE before a set date, so we'll see how well they'll manage to iron out all the content bugs.
@zenblack Well they do have an advantage with BG2:EE since it will use the already existing BG:EE engine, which means that there should be no new engine-related bugs in BG2:EE. However, they are working with a tight schedule and they do need to release BG2:EE before a set date, so we'll see how well they'll manage to iron out all the content bugs.
Just like they had a BG with significant fixes in place for BGEE, we will definitely have to see what they come up with since they have proven they can bug up even the most stable of releases in their search for new capital. Lets see what BG2EE brings instead of assuming they will beta test their work before asking money for it.
@zenblack Everyone's welcome to express their opinions here, and we're very much aware of the problems with the game. I would only caution you to respect the members of the forum, and even if you don't like the product we've produced, try to remember that the developers are people too.
If you're truly dissatisfied with the game, please do email me at support@beamdog.com. I'll be happy to work with you toward a solution, or refund your purchase if it comes to that.
I don't see a problem in @zenblack behavior, he criticized only, what is his right as a customer. It's an unpleased customer disappointed and if a staff member warn him for this and offer refunds with the subliminar message of "don't like, take your money back and get out", that will reflect only a lack of confidence in the work done.
Let deeds speak instead, and erase his disappointment with an nice BG2 EE instead.
By myself i see BG EE failing in many ways, and so i'm disappointed too with many things, @zenblack choice of words may not be the better but there's a truth behind them.
The core problem in the Beamdog/Client relation, is related to information. No, i'm not meaning that Beamdog does not update the customers or let them in the dark after they payment, what i meant is something that have been a bit obvious from a very long time and i failed to see.
Most improvments on the game can't be done either by copyright restrictions or lack of resources, even things labeled as bugs in the previous game are stated to be untouchable here, Beamdog has an agenda to publish BG2 EE as have been labeled before... someone inputed an duty for the boss?... Dorn's avatar is being used in the background of ATARI, something produced and clearly copyrighted by Beamdog.
So the main question is, the boss is really the boss? If not, that's the main fault of Beamdog.
From everything i saw, Beamdog behave more as an employee than employer, maybe we could call this "partial assignment of rights" of an franchise, but clearly Beamdog isn't the puppet master behind this project, not for major decision actions at least.
Whomever has the full copyrights of baldur's gate surelly can authorize any change, be it old content or not, so instead of self proclaim as the owner of the project, the "boss" should let people know that he's only the head of the project not of the capital copyrights, therefore being limited in his decisions. Even mostly important, an channel between the customers here and the "true boss" should be avaliable.
If my statement is wrong, what i strongly believe that's not, i apologise for presuming so much, but then, saying that old content changes can't be done will start to ressemble a bit less veritable.
Sorry for the off-topic @Dee, and no, this isn't an attack against the staff from me, cos if everything i said is true, the staff can't do much to change whomever owns the capital copyright wants, but then i raise an important request here that i dare to believe many others will backup, i want a direct channel with the true boss of the project, aka ATARI, the one that owns the original copyright and have the power to do the changes, i want someone from that staff to deal with their indirect customers here (or there), mostly in reason of ATARI web site be lacking an decent custom support, the only way to contact them is to submit help requests for game bugs.
Comments
However, from my experience in the beta test, where we tend to get these sort of patches more often, putting a build together can really cause all sorts of unintended consequences. I'm sure plenty of the devs and modders know more about how this works than I do, but I think that just releasing a hotfix build to fix the firebead quest for example, is not as viable as it sounds.
Perhaps one of the team members would be able to comment about it in more detail?
1) Binary assets: much of the game content is binary files which we are not able to decompile to a text source. This makes merging development from different branches very difficult. WeiDU makes this a little better, but as you might have seen with mod compatibility issues, this is not a seamless effort.
2) This is a small development team: Maintaining and testing multiple branches is resource intensive. We've been pushing the limits in developing and testing two different products (BGEE and BG2EE) and we have to balance our desire to release a BGEE update with our need to complete work on the BG2EE development according to our contractual obligations.
3) Cross platform multiplayer: we need to try to keep the versions synchronized across platforms. This adds to the test burden for each release.
Could it technically be done? Yes. However, given the time, resource and technical constraints, we decided not to go this route. We hear your desire for more frequent / more timely updates, and we are considering different options for meeting that desire.
So while we're still hopeful that we might have it ready for the 31st, I can't make any guarantees. But a delayed patch just means a more polished one, which is good for everyone in the long run.
If they don't have confident for assure the delivery date , it's better to say nothing , otherwise all of players check the forum every day and someone doesn't play for waiting New patch , just because you guys say the new update will come before May ,
Also, in some specific situations (everytime an mustard Jelly appear for example), the game apparently start to work with difficult, with a serie of minor freezes and slow motions.
All of the Baldur's Gate cinematics have been replaced with beautifully hand painted animated cinematics, directed by Nat Jones"
What is definitely not true. There are still many missing movies, for example the movies for sunrise and sunset. This is causing freeze in Multiplayer games, or causing an unending loop of "game paused, movie loading" at the screen.
The already available movies are too cold, too short, without the fun and horror of the originals.
You removed this announcement and advertisement once, this was childish to place it again to your Main Page, and is a lie.
@Dee has been kind enough to let us know it 'should' be finished for the 31st. Likely not before and possibly a little late. That's good enough for me.
I think that's right anyway.
There is a contractual obligation to release BG2EE in a certain time frame (no, we can't tell you when that is).
BGEE engine improvements will have a direct, positive impact on BG2EE, and vice versa.
Modding tools will have to adapt to the updated file formats, but maintaining compatibility is still a priority where posssible.
Then by all means, continue your course and take your time. I hope that eventually I'll get to play a perfected Baldur's Gate series.
Can you at least confirm subraces development ?
Of course, one thing these forums showed me is that according to some players, "playable" is a very malleable concept.
And this isn't even going into the non-playable bugs of the video cards, or the multiplayer bugs which make it a frustrating and trying experience. I'm glad you can either not experience, or ignore these things and still enjoy the game, but there are far too many things to consider this Enhanced by any scope of the word until they get the basic game functioning without a fundamentally buggy experience.
The only bug I have found so far is Tethtoril's scroll...WHY WON'T YOU GIMME SCROLL TETH! WHY!
So this is nothing new. At least the dev's are going out of their way to finally eradicate all bugs from the original game - something that would be difficult due to the age of the code, and that the code isn't their own in the first place.
Imagine being a Playstation owner and trying to play Skyrim - games have bugs. Bugs will be fixed. Some take longer to fix than others.
I don't know about anybody else but my old BG game discs refuse to work for me on any modern machine - the fact that I can now play it across numerous different platforms is incredible for me. I had thought that this game was lost to me forever.
I am confident all will be fixed soon and then we can have a mostly bug-free BG2 on release.
Everyone's welcome to express their opinions here, and we're very much aware of the problems with the game. I would only caution you to respect the members of the forum, and even if you don't like the product we've produced, try to remember that the developers are people too.
If you're truly dissatisfied with the game, please do email me at support@beamdog.com. I'll be happy to work with you toward a solution, or refund your purchase if it comes to that.
Let deeds speak instead, and erase his disappointment with an nice BG2 EE instead.
By myself i see BG EE failing in many ways, and so i'm disappointed too with many things, @zenblack choice of words may not be the better but there's a truth behind them.
The core problem in the Beamdog/Client relation, is related to information. No, i'm not meaning that Beamdog does not update the customers or let them in the dark after they payment, what i meant is something that have been a bit obvious from a very long time and i failed to see.
Most improvments on the game can't be done either by copyright restrictions or lack of resources, even things labeled as bugs in the previous game are stated to be untouchable here, Beamdog has an agenda to publish BG2 EE as have been labeled before... someone inputed an duty for the boss?... Dorn's avatar is being used in the background of ATARI, something produced and clearly copyrighted by Beamdog.
So the main question is, the boss is really the boss? If not, that's the main fault of Beamdog.
From everything i saw, Beamdog behave more as an employee than employer, maybe we could call this "partial assignment of rights" of an franchise, but clearly Beamdog isn't the puppet master behind this project, not for major decision actions at least.
Whomever has the full copyrights of baldur's gate surelly can authorize any change, be it old content or not, so instead of self proclaim as the owner of the project, the "boss" should let people know that he's only the head of the project not of the capital copyrights, therefore being limited in his decisions. Even mostly important, an channel between the customers here and the "true boss" should be avaliable.
If my statement is wrong, what i strongly believe that's not, i apologise for presuming so much, but then, saying that old content changes can't be done will start to ressemble a bit less veritable.
Sorry for the off-topic @Dee, and no, this isn't an attack against the staff from me, cos if everything i said is true, the staff can't do much to change whomever owns the capital copyright wants, but then i raise an important request here that i dare to believe many others will backup, i want a direct channel with the true boss of the project, aka ATARI, the one that owns the original copyright and have the power to do the changes, i want someone from that staff to deal with their indirect customers here (or there), mostly in reason of ATARI web site be lacking an decent custom support, the only way to contact them is to submit help requests for game bugs.