Someone tweeted this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcsLd3dVNz8 it's about weapons but on the topic of unrealistic fantasy. He mostly seems to take issue with grips. I don't really have a strong opinion on it either way, but thought I would share given the discussion on weapons earlier in the thread.
by dashcosplay Um… is she an assassin, or a lady of the evening? by UR-A-CIL I am not sure that this character understands how armor works… by Tsabob6 Corset Armor is best for fan service!
You know, I've been thinking a lot about this subject since I started going on an MMO binge. A game I've been playing on-and-off for years got this really awesome event going, so I decided to pick it up again for a little while (especially now that I got a fancy new computer that can handle it!).
But as I've been playing, I've realized... There may be no greater offender of "unrealistic fantasy armor" than the MMORPG genre.
In this game, Rappelz, you start out on a newbie-area and train until you're ready to leave to the mainland. As you'd expect, you show up damn near naked at level one--with the exceptions of the Asura race (a "dark" race which is pretty over-sexualized in every context), the male characters start in a plain shirt and pants, while the girls start in a simple dress. No offending here. I expect this sort of thing when I'm creating a new character.
But as you go on through the game, and you become higher level, you'd expect the armor to improve, and cover more of your body, right? Right??
Well... Yes, and...no.
I'm gonna leave out the magician and summoner armors because those are modeled on the "You shall never see the light of melee combat ever"-trope, and therefore cover less anyway. Honestly, I went through their wikipedia and walked away pretty impressed; I didn't see nearly as many armor offenders as I was expecting. But...the ones I did find just made me go "Ugh."
Let's start with some simple rank two warrior sets. Now, I looked at all these sets expecting there to be some holes. It's only rank two after all; there's seven ranks altogether, to put in perspective, and some of the highest level armors are up there in the hundred-level range. Rank two is only for level twenty. So, in my opinion, they've got some creative license to show a little flesh.
Ideally, of course, this would be true for both the male and female characters.
Um... No. That is definitely not the case here.
This is the standard level twenty warrior armor restricted only to the Gaia race. This is the armor that I wore for a long time on my main character. Now, to be fair, my MC was not a typical "warrior," in that she focused on the archery-build for the class. She struck enemies down from far away with bows and arrows; she never got to see the light of melee combat, at least not very often. So you could argue that as a long-ranged character, this armor wouldn't be such a hindrance.
This is not the case if you decide to build into the melee path--the "dual-wielding axes and slashing things apart"-path. Can you imagine a female Gaia character running into battle with...this? I'll tell you, her male counterpart would have a way better time than she would.
To Rappelz's credit, this isn't the only suit of armor you can find as a level twenty warrior. They also have "Armor of Heart and Soul," and the two general armors that you can only acquire from drops--the "Pure Mail," and the "Link Mail."
This one is a lot better. We don't have her entire arms or legs exposed to the thistle and bushes (and worse case, claws and teeth). But compared to the male, our heroine still has to show off her hips, which gives her these pointless holes in her armor.
Again, not the worst offender in the world (I told you I was decently surprised). But Rappelz has this nasty tendency to put their girls in really high skirts. This wouldn't ordinarily be much of a problem, except... As I've had experience in-game, as the character walks around and her skirt goes up and down, you get pretty clear shots of her panties. For some reason, I guess these gals didn't think to wear nylons, or shorts, or even just regular pants would've worked.
And here we are. Finally, an example where the male character is less-covered than the female! "Look at me, I have abs of steel! I don't need armor!!" This armor gets a pass from me for breaking the stereotype, though if we want to be really picky, I still see some problems with the girl's. The ever-scrutinized boob-window is still present, and...what are those little slits around her hips?
"But Nonnahswriter! You said yourself that those armors are only for level twenty! Surely there must be better examples in the higher levels...right?"
Actually, yes. Generally, the higher-level warrior classes are pretty well-covered. Again, we're not talking about magic-users, because they're a whole other beast entirely.
But there are some...gems to be found in the higher end of the game. Like this one:
And this one...
And for you guys out there who despise over-sized pauldrons, there's also this one:
So no, Rappelz didn't turn out to be as bad as I thought it would be. But like most MMORPGs, there are still plenty of examples of female characters wearing less than their male counterparts. Not even around their most feminine parts, but the silly things like holes around the hips and naked legs. Things that serve no purpose other than to show a little skin, because girls.
Guys, we don't have to do this to our female characters. We really don't. If you want to make a completely fanservice-inspired armor, then fine. But putting slits and boob windows on perfectly functional pieces of armor, which aren't present on the male equivalent of the same armor, is not only completely pointless, but in a way, kind of degrading. The only reason those holes are there is because the wearer is a woman, and we feel a compulsive need to show some of her skin. Somewhere, anywhere would do--discounting the skin on her face, of course, because we see that all the time.
And yes, on my worst of days, seeing this kind of thing shoved in my face over and over again kind of pisses me off.
Mind you, this isn't going to stop me from playing the game. You're talking to the girl who grew up watching Japanese animation like Tenchi Muyo and Slayers--my tolerance for fanservice is pretty darn high. I personally think that the second we let things like this get in the way of our enjoyment, we need to either a: reevaluate our values in entertainment, or b: calm the flip down. I tend to be in favor of the latter. But, that doesn't stop me from thinking about this stuff, or recognizing the flaws in something that I like.
Anyway, TL;DR, just my gaming habits have caused me to think about this stuff again, and thought I'd share. Ignore if you'd like; not trying to pick a fight, by any means.
@Nonnahswriter Why is it fantasy woman are never able to wear pants? You're right that those armors make me put on strange faces. >:P like my entire face is going, "WHY?!?!?!?!?!" This is why I like Baldur's Gate- Sensible armor and clothing for both sexes. Any kind of skirt is gonna swish and make noise and get caught on stuff. And garters? Really?! That, I find even more insulting than the ubiquitous skirt. In short: :P
... what is that stupid thing on red riding hood´s right shoulder? A solar plate or what? And that dangerously neck thingy is well... dangerous if she realy is into "riding" or just walking... imagine her tumble skills fail... krz slash...
but shes very very cute anyway and i like people who dress how they want and not what the mass demands so to say. Individual style is always the best!
I realise this is an anime style (I haven't played the game in question), but...come on, look at that sword!! The zweihander, the biggest sword ever made (and used mainly on the battlefield to break up pike formations) was nowhere near that big! Just try swinging that around and see how long before you tire. If you last that long, even. That's not a sword, that's a giant meat cleaver!
Cloud uses that huge sword, first because it's the only thing he has left from his childhood friend, Zack. Secondly, Zack, Cloud and Sephiroth were all SOLDIER. Basically the goverment's elite soldiers that were exposed to Mako radiation which resulted in increased strength and abilities.
"Throughout history spies have never been shy about using women's femininity and sexuality to get information.The kunoichi could disguise themselves as temple maidens, house keepers and even prostitutes and dancers in ways that men simply couldn't."
Or Mata Hari.
So yes, using your looks or sexuality is useful to an adventurer. Not in battle, but in a tavern or town, absolutely.
There's even footage at the end of the sword in action (so to speak). The guy, Tony Abbot, calls the Blade, "redonkulous". I agree. I mean, most of the blade is made of aluminum, for heaven's sake, and even then, it ended up weighing 60 or 70 pounds… and he says in the video that just carrying it wrecked his back and arm. He had to brace it on his shoulder even to move it around…
And when I say the blade is "In action", wielding it is more like tipping it down and letting the blade's weight do the rest.
@Archaeos Of course, I've heard of Kunoichi... But she's not dressed in a kimono, or a ninja outfit ((shozoku), despite how unrealistic it probably was- Ninja who wanted to blend in would dress as peasants, and kunoichi, who were seducing lords, would dress as either geisha or in a kimono).
by LASAHIDO We see what's really important about female warriors, front and center. To certain fanboys, anyhow… by LASAHIDO I've often joked about armor that looks like an explosion in a metal factory- but here we get to see the explosion as it happens! by saranji Did you ever start getting dressed and then forgot to finish? Yeah, I think someone is very forgetful here… by The-Nullchecker "Oh, I am being attacked by savage tentacle beasts! Whatever shall I do?" by skip104 "The North, where men are men and the necklaces are… very strange." by Uryenn "Target the glowing bits for maximum points!" by mcgreevy "Help me! I had to abandon half my armor after I broke my leg!" by alexnegrea "And the armor smith told me the gaps make my armor even *more* effective!"
by gesell (She appears to have straps of some kind across her breasts, thus, no nips here). Another someone unclear on what effect armor is supposed to have… by an9reyart That outfit would need sovereign glue to stay on, not to mention how spiky it is. And I just bet that leather strap doesn't chafe at all! by TheRafa That armor is just silly. In fact, I am not sure that even qualifies as armor. Decoration, sure. Armor… No. by sarmati Loincloth, bikini top and big-ass sword? Yeah, you're the best huntress, lady. Suuuure.
@Kiwidoc Check out my "LadyRhian's Too Many Pictures for any thread" over in Fan Creations. Plenty of nice armor pics there, all attributed from DeviantArt.
by Filipe-Pagliuso Even if you are a Barbarian, I don't see how that metal bikini top is going to be very comfortable… by henflay This has to be one of the most WTF?! armors I have ever seen in my life. Metal covering only one boob/the boobs, thigh-high stockings, arm armor, some kind of metal-armored boots… and a bikini and fur cloak. I think my brain seized up… by trockn Even better! Armor with severe coverage gaps and cut-outs. In combat, you'll be fine. EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE! by RDOWN How does she shoot her bow without those Quadruple D's getting in the way? The mind boggles. Boggles, I tell you! Also, aside from her practically unarmored upper half, the things on the cups look like targets... by TovioRogers "Lets see what happens to our heroine when we inflate her to 25 psi!" by Tsabob6 Apparently, this lady's magic powers include holding a metal boob cup to her upper body… by RaymondMinnar That cool-looking belt is more of a danger to the wearer than to others… by Laszivia Um, two things come to mind here: 1) Top Heavy- how does this character not fall forward everywhere? and 2) That top has to be glued on with industrial-strength superglue. It's not even attached in front!
by henflay This has to be one of the most WTF?! armors I have ever seen in my life. Metal covering only one boob/the boobs, thigh-high stockings, arm armor, some kind of metal-armored boots… and a bikini and fur cloak. I think my brain seized up…
It's clearly an amazon :P hence the difference in the armor for each boob.
@CrevsDaak And I also have to say that the chain the sword scabbard is hanging from looks painful to wear. I know I'D rather have a thick belt to distribute the weight of sword and scabbard instead of having a metal chain digging into the flesh of my thigh with nothing beneath it to prevent it from digging in.
@AstroBryGuy And the hammerheads have 5 eyes (I am counting the red things as eyes and assuming they also have eyes at the ends of the bar/hammerhead).
by jdelnido This lady isn't even a warrior, and she's dressed in a leather bikini and a cloak. How about a massive quantity of "No!" by Kailyze Boob cup, because BEWBS, right? Even when it makes no sense. by anotherwanderer I'm not sure if she's supposed to be posing in a wet robes contest, or her clothing is supposed to be that see-through normally, but either way, I wouldn't want to be going out of the house dressed like that. by nadyanx That HAS to be paint, because fabric doesn't work like that. by BobGreyvenstein "Hey, guys, do you want to be buff, like me? Just follow my 21 week course and you can be buffed to the max, too!" by LegendofImpf This one was titled, I kid you not, "Armor's for the weak", to which I had to reply, "Nakedness is for the Dead or Mortally Injured". by wickedAlucard This is just a mess of "WTF?" all over the place. Too many spiky bits, too much non-coverage. Not to mention, more swords than extremities to hold them… by 88grzes "Things may be going to hell in a hand basket, but surely me flashing my ass will make you feel better!" Also, this is called "Runo, the Power of Thunder", but the exposed butt and the fluttering skirt make me think of a different kind of "Thunder" altogether! by kachima This woman doesn't need armor, she has a nipple thimble and a snake!
Comments
Nice to meet you Little Red Riding Hood. I'm the wolf they warned told you about.
But as I've been playing, I've realized... There may be no greater offender of "unrealistic fantasy armor" than the MMORPG genre.
In this game, Rappelz, you start out on a newbie-area and train until you're ready to leave to the mainland. As you'd expect, you show up damn near naked at level one--with the exceptions of the Asura race (a "dark" race which is pretty over-sexualized in every context), the male characters start in a plain shirt and pants, while the girls start in a simple dress. No offending here. I expect this sort of thing when I'm creating a new character.
But as you go on through the game, and you become higher level, you'd expect the armor to improve, and cover more of your body, right? Right??
Well... Yes, and...no.
I'm gonna leave out the magician and summoner armors because those are modeled on the "You shall never see the light of melee combat ever"-trope, and therefore cover less anyway. Honestly, I went through their wikipedia and walked away pretty impressed; I didn't see nearly as many armor offenders as I was expecting. But...the ones I did find just made me go "Ugh."
Let's start with some simple rank two warrior sets. Now, I looked at all these sets expecting there to be some holes. It's only rank two after all; there's seven ranks altogether, to put in perspective, and some of the highest level armors are up there in the hundred-level range. Rank two is only for level twenty. So, in my opinion, they've got some creative license to show a little flesh.
Ideally, of course, this would be true for both the male and female characters.
Um... No. That is definitely not the case here.
This is the standard level twenty warrior armor restricted only to the Gaia race. This is the armor that I wore for a long time on my main character. Now, to be fair, my MC was not a typical "warrior," in that she focused on the archery-build for the class. She struck enemies down from far away with bows and arrows; she never got to see the light of melee combat, at least not very often. So you could argue that as a long-ranged character, this armor wouldn't be such a hindrance.
This is not the case if you decide to build into the melee path--the "dual-wielding axes and slashing things apart"-path. Can you imagine a female Gaia character running into battle with...this? I'll tell you, her male counterpart would have a way better time than she would.
To Rappelz's credit, this isn't the only suit of armor you can find as a level twenty warrior. They also have "Armor of Heart and Soul," and the two general armors that you can only acquire from drops--the "Pure Mail," and the "Link Mail."
This one is a lot better. We don't have her entire arms or legs exposed to the thistle and bushes (and worse case, claws and teeth). But compared to the male, our heroine still has to show off her hips, which gives her these pointless holes in her armor.
Again, not the worst offender in the world (I told you I was decently surprised). But Rappelz has this nasty tendency to put their girls in really high skirts. This wouldn't ordinarily be much of a problem, except... As I've had experience in-game, as the character walks around and her skirt goes up and down, you get pretty clear shots of her panties. For some reason, I guess these gals didn't think to wear nylons, or shorts, or even just regular pants would've worked.
And here we are. Finally, an example where the male character is less-covered than the female! "Look at me, I have abs of steel! I don't need armor!!" This armor gets a pass from me for breaking the stereotype, though if we want to be really picky, I still see some problems with the girl's. The ever-scrutinized boob-window is still present, and...what are those little slits around her hips?
"But Nonnahswriter! You said yourself that those armors are only for level twenty! Surely there must be better examples in the higher levels...right?"
Actually, yes. Generally, the higher-level warrior classes are pretty well-covered. Again, we're not talking about magic-users, because they're a whole other beast entirely.
But there are some...gems to be found in the higher end of the game. Like this one:
And this one...
And for you guys out there who despise over-sized pauldrons, there's also this one:
So no, Rappelz didn't turn out to be as bad as I thought it would be. But like most MMORPGs, there are still plenty of examples of female characters wearing less than their male counterparts. Not even around their most feminine parts, but the silly things like holes around the hips and naked legs. Things that serve no purpose other than to show a little skin, because girls.
Guys, we don't have to do this to our female characters. We really don't. If you want to make a completely fanservice-inspired armor, then fine. But putting slits and boob windows on perfectly functional pieces of armor, which aren't present on the male equivalent of the same armor, is not only completely pointless, but in a way, kind of degrading. The only reason those holes are there is because the wearer is a woman, and we feel a compulsive need to show some of her skin. Somewhere, anywhere would do--discounting the skin on her face, of course, because we see that all the time.
And yes, on my worst of days, seeing this kind of thing shoved in my face over and over again kind of pisses me off.
Mind you, this isn't going to stop me from playing the game. You're talking to the girl who grew up watching Japanese animation like Tenchi Muyo and Slayers--my tolerance for fanservice is pretty darn high. I personally think that the second we let things like this get in the way of our enjoyment, we need to either a: reevaluate our values in entertainment, or b: calm the flip down. I tend to be in favor of the latter. But, that doesn't stop me from thinking about this stuff, or recognizing the flaws in something that I like.
Anyway, TL;DR, just my gaming habits have caused me to think about this stuff again, and thought I'd share. Ignore if you'd like; not trying to pick a fight, by any means.
but shes very very cute anyway and i like people who dress how they want and not what the mass demands so to say. Individual style is always the best!
Secondly, Zack, Cloud and Sephiroth were all SOLDIER.
Basically the goverment's elite soldiers that were exposed to Mako radiation which resulted in increased strength and abilities.
He's not using a huge sword because anime. Never heard of Kunoichi?
"Throughout history spies have never been shy about using women's femininity and sexuality to get information.The kunoichi could disguise themselves as temple maidens, house keepers and even prostitutes and dancers in ways that men simply couldn't."
Or Mata Hari.
So yes, using your looks or sexuality is useful to an adventurer. Not in battle, but in a tavern or town, absolutely.
There's even footage at the end of the sword in action (so to speak). The guy, Tony Abbot, calls the Blade, "redonkulous". I agree. I mean, most of the blade is made of aluminum, for heaven's sake, and even then, it ended up weighing 60 or 70 pounds… and he says in the video that just carrying it wrecked his back and arm. He had to brace it on his shoulder even to move it around…
And when I say the blade is "In action", wielding it is more like tipping it down and letting the blade's weight do the rest.
I'm going to include a link to this set of gloriously daft and ridiculous pix in my intro on that thread!
And remember as the wise woman said - Never go into battle wearing leather fetish gear or metal lingerie.