@the_spyder Now you're being silly. You can't say 3ed is designed around mimaxing with any credibility.
3e isn't. Ice wind dale 2 is.
In NWN I ran a sorc/druid/arcane archer with stealth, dev crit in long bows, and two panther families named puma and pantera. I coasted through the game with that build. There was literally nothing min maxed about it.
The same build would not last long in IWD2. Nor should it but I went from a game hat allowed me to be as creative as possible in building characters, to one that forced me to cookie cut 6.
You don't need to minmax in IWD2, but there are no penalties for doing so. You could have a party with normal stats go through the game with no problems. It is just easier with a min maxed party - the same as BG2.
As has been said before, many times, myself and many others have played IWD2 without min maxed parties and have done so absolutely fine. It is not that hard. The beginning of the game is hard, I'll grant you, but this is more a function of D&D in general than IWD2. BG1 is also hard when your character has 8 hitpoints. When you have at least 60 hitpoints and the ability to cast level 3 spells, it gets a lot easier. IWD2 is exactly the same.
It does not need min maxing.
BG2 has very few dialog checks for low wisdom, charisma or intelligence. Off the top of my head, dialog with Soloufein (sp) in the Underdark regarding illithid is the only one I know of for sure that has a stat check. You could get by with 3 intelligence, 3 wisdom and 3 charisma. Heck, there is a ring available immediately after starting the game that sets charisma to 18.
Both games are possible without minmaxing and both games allow for min maxing. In fact, BG2 allows you to spend hours rolling for stats until you get a fighter mage with 18, 18, 18, 18, 10, 10. Such a character is not possible in IWD2 without minmaxing. Which is cheesier - minmaxing to make your uber fighter mage in IWD2, or spending an entire day rolling stats in BG2?
Once again, neither game requires minmaxing. I don't know everyone has this common misconception that it does. Especially once you start getting better buffs, I would even say it is easier than BG2.
In my mod that tweaks IWD2 I tried to bring it closer to PnP. Meaning no minmax. You can drop stats from 10 to 8 but that's about it. Minmaxing always had a reputation of cheesiness in IWD2. http://www.baldursgatemods.com/forums/index.php?topic=6803.0
I think 3E as a whole was designed around it. Certainly to a much greater degree than 2E. Now it is possible to play and even be successful without Min/Maxing. But the system itself was designed with the expectation that you would, and rewards you if you do. That's all I was saying.
But the system itself was designed with the expectation that you would, and rewards you if you do. That's all I was saying.
I much prefer 2e over 3e. Indeed, that is a big reason why I'm not interested in IDW2EE. But I think it's fair to say just about ALL game systems reward min-maxing.
I think 3E as a whole was designed around it. Certainly to a much greater degree than 2E. Now it is possible to play and even be successful without Min/Maxing. But the system itself was designed with the expectation that you would, and rewards you if you do. That's all I was saying.
Actually the system was never completely tested. The game was rushed as at that point Interplay and BIS were going down the drain. If you take a look at the bundle of parties the game comes with (characters created by the designers themselves), they are not min/maxed.
You can finish the game without any issue even if you don't min/max your characters. It's not like it was not done before. The game is also a lot more balanced that way.
Actually the system was never completely tested. The game was rushed as at that point Interplay and BIS were going down the drain. If you take a look at the bundle of parties the game comes with (characters created by the designers themselves), they are not min/maxed.
You can finish the game without any issue even if you don't min/max your characters. It's not like it was not done before. The game is also a lot more balanced that way.
Now it is possible to play and even be successful without Min/Maxing. But the system itself was designed with the expectation that you would, and rewards you if you do. That's all I was saying.
Actually the system was never completely tested. The game was rushed as at that point Interplay and BIS were going down the drain. If you take a look at the bundle of parties the game comes with (characters created by the designers themselves), they are not min/maxed.
You can finish the game without any issue even if you don't min/max your characters. It's not like it was not done before. The game is also a lot more balanced that way.
Now it is possible to play and even be successful without Min/Maxing. But the system itself was designed with the expectation that you would, and rewards you if you do. That's all I was saying.
Bg2 rewards you for minmaxing just the same. The only difference is that BG2 allows you to roll randomly, which can give you godlike stats, whereas in IWD2, everyone has 16 points.
This means that in Bg2, a roll of 92 is not unheard of, and this will give you 4 maxed abilities and 2 abilities at 10. In IWD2, this is impossible. You cannot have 4 maxed abilities without minimizing the other two.
So what you are saying is that if IWD2 used random rolling so that you could make godlike characters without having to minmax, you would be happy?
Ok, this has taken the direction away from the intent of the thread. It was not my intent to subvert the purpose, so I am opting out of further comments on the subject.
Yes I would buy an IWD2 enhanced edition. Hell, I would be happy if someone just made a mod that let it use the nice graphics engine of the EE series. But I would def pay what IWD/BG/BG2EE for that.
@the_spyder Now you're being silly. You can't say 3ed is designed around mimaxing with any credibility.
3e isn't. Ice wind dale 2 is.
In NWN I ran a sorc/druid/arcane archer with stealth, dev crit in long bows, and two panther families named puma and pantera. I coasted through the game with that build. There was literally nothing min maxed about it.
The same build would not last long in IWD2. Nor should it but I went from a game hat allowed me to be as creative as possible in building characters, to one that forced me to cookie cut 6.
I've played enough 3e, 3.5, and pathfinder games to know they are all built around who can make the most broken build unless the DM is hugely against that.
But either case it is entirely different Infinity Engine path. So the EE engine wouldn't help them any.
EE of BG was able to get you BG1, BG2 and IWD. EE of IWD 2 will not get you any other games. Maybe there is some kind of way to get Planescape to run in IWD EE engine but I would wager its slim.
Better off making IWD 3 as 5th edition rule set, maybe license the Pillars of Eternity engine and modify it to run 5th edition. Supposedly Beamdog relations with Wizards of The coast is great now that Atari is out of the picture. Better to make a new 5th Edition Engine and try to get 3 games out of it.
IWD 3 in 5th Edt or even revisit Baldurs Gate. Maybe not a direct sequel to the bhaalspawn saga but a sequel more of the location.
I think I'll not buy this game because I didn't like the 3rd Edition rules. But I did like the fact that you could switch between two sets of weapons ^^
Never really got into Icewind Dale 2, not because I didn't like it but for some reason I always play it for a while and then move onto something else before beating the game. I will get the Enhanced Edition as soon as it's out, though. It'd be the perfect chance to finally play the campaign to completion once and for all.
Let me put it this way. I bought IWD I: EE when it first was announced and haven't played it yet (lack of time, will play the game these Christmas Holidays). And IWD I is (was) in my opinion the "weakest" of the 4. Would I buy IWD II: EE? Hell yeah! I loved that game, its story, its music, I loved the way they incorporated the 3rd ed rules. I would buy 10 copies of the game!
114 guaranteed sales for iwd2ee. That's got to be a profit, right?
Based on the pricing model of IWDEE, that's a whopping $1,140 to $3,420 in guaranteed revenue (not profit). Surely, others would buy as well, but as guarantees go, 114 purchases wouldn't even be enough to pay a single staff member.
Yeah. Everyone I know, knows that the way to tell when I am being sarcastic is..... my lips move. Doesn't help much online, but face to face it's a dead give-away.
I wouldn't put myself through that again. While IWD2 introduced the BEST of character creation, the game itself was so NOT fun that I base what is not fun in other games off of my experience in IWD2. Most of the areas were lifted from the first game, so it didn't even feel like a new experience. The story is uninteresting. When I defeated the boss I didn't even know I was fighting the boss... But the worst is that most of the new areas are mazes. It's the kind of thing that game developers these days know not to do. There is even that area that is a maze of time, playing through the same dungeon over and over and over and over, getting a little further each time. Oh god it's awful and it makes me cringe just thinking about it.
Comments
But this is not about 3E is 'Bad' or 'Good'. This thread is about would I purchase IWD2:EE. Yes, I would. Nuff said from my perspective.
In NWN I ran a sorc/druid/arcane archer with stealth, dev crit in long bows, and two panther families named puma and pantera. I coasted through the game with that build. There was literally nothing min maxed about it.
The same build would not last long in IWD2. Nor should it but I went from a game hat allowed me to be as creative as possible in building characters, to one that forced me to cookie cut 6.
As has been said before, many times, myself and many others have played IWD2 without min maxed parties and have done so absolutely fine. It is not that hard. The beginning of the game is hard, I'll grant you, but this is more a function of D&D in general than IWD2. BG1 is also hard when your character has 8 hitpoints. When you have at least 60 hitpoints and the ability to cast level 3 spells, it gets a lot easier. IWD2 is exactly the same.
It does not need min maxing.
BG2 has very few dialog checks for low wisdom, charisma or intelligence. Off the top of my head, dialog with Soloufein (sp) in the Underdark regarding illithid is the only one I know of for sure that has a stat check. You could get by with 3 intelligence, 3 wisdom and 3 charisma. Heck, there is a ring available immediately after starting the game that sets charisma to 18.
Both games are possible without minmaxing and both games allow for min maxing. In fact, BG2 allows you to spend hours rolling for stats until you get a fighter mage with 18, 18, 18, 18, 10, 10. Such a character is not possible in IWD2 without minmaxing. Which is cheesier - minmaxing to make your uber fighter mage in IWD2, or spending an entire day rolling stats in BG2?
Once again, neither game requires minmaxing. I don't know everyone has this common misconception that it does. Especially once you start getting better buffs, I would even say it is easier than BG2.
http://www.baldursgatemods.com/forums/index.php?topic=6803.0
You can finish the game without any issue even if you don't min/max your characters. It's not like it was not done before. The game is also a lot more balanced that way.
This means that in Bg2, a roll of 92 is not unheard of, and this will give you 4 maxed abilities and 2 abilities at 10. In IWD2, this is impossible. You cannot have 4 maxed abilities without minimizing the other two.
So what you are saying is that if IWD2 used random rolling so that you could make godlike characters without having to minmax, you would be happy?
Same goes for Planescape:Torment.
But either case it is entirely different Infinity Engine path. So the EE engine wouldn't help them any.
EE of BG was able to get you BG1, BG2 and IWD. EE of IWD 2 will not get you any other games. Maybe there is some kind of way to get Planescape to run in IWD EE engine but I would wager its slim.
Better off making IWD 3 as 5th edition rule set, maybe license the Pillars of Eternity engine and modify it to run 5th edition. Supposedly Beamdog relations with Wizards of The coast is great now that Atari is out of the picture. Better to make a new 5th Edition Engine and try to get 3 games out of it.
IWD 3 in 5th Edt or even revisit Baldurs Gate. Maybe not a direct sequel to the bhaalspawn saga but a sequel more of the location.
(it doesn't work as well without tone of voice)