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David_Gaider needs a list

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  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Isometric.
    2ed rules.
    Joinable NPCs.

  • alceryesalceryes Member Posts: 377
    1. Immersion
    2. Immersion
    3. Immersion

    I can't say it enough. I need a spectacularly immersive world that is constantly changing around me. I don't want good writing. I don't want great writing. I want writing so ingenious, so engrossing, that it shatters my constructed ideas of what's happening. Then shatters the NEWLY constructed ideas while I struggle to cope with game-changing events. Then, incredibly, brings me BACK to my original assumption but with half a dozen unanswered questions. Questions that I may find some answers to around the next bend...

    Like a double entendre on top of where you park a couple boats, I want a game that, as the end credits roll, leaves me saying, "Wai...what?!? But what if I...? I gotta do that again!!!"

    brus
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    edited July 2016
    alceryes said:

    Immersion
    I can't say it enough. I need a spectacularly immersive world that is constantly changing around me. I don't want good writing. I don't want great writing. I want writing so ingenious, so engrossing, that it shatters my constructed ideas of what's happening. Then shatters the NEWLY constructed ideas while I struggle to cope with game-changing events. Then, incredibly, brings me BACK to my original assumption but with half a dozen unanswered questions. Questions that I may find some answers to around the next bend...

    Like a double entendre on top of where you park a couple boats, I want a game that, as the end credits roll, leaves me saying, "Wai...what?!? But what if I...? I gotta do that again!!!"

    :lol:
    That would be great outline for game design document.
    Offtopic
    Which games have left you with that feel?

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    mf2112DJKajuruJuliusBorisov
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    mlnevese said:

    Second edition rules can not be used by a new game. Wizards would never allow it.

    I know. But I can still wish for it ;)

  • alceryesalceryes Member Posts: 377
    edited July 2016
    brus said:

    Which games have left you with that feel?

    None, so far. Although, some individual Morrowind quests came close.

    (hopefully you got the "...where you park a couple boats," part)
    Where do you park a couple boats? Why, a pair-a-docks, of course!

    coucounet
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    alceryes said:

    (hopefully you got the "...where you park a couple boats," part)

    Where do you park a couple boats? Why, a pair-a-docks, of course!
    No, I've understand only the end of the sentence.

    Offtopic
    Speaking of the narration outside of RPG, Ken Levine's Bioshock and Frictional's SOMA left me in that feeling of mindblown.

  • viktorhviktorh Member Posts: 9

    For the sake of argument, let's pretend we were making a D&D game of some kind.

    What would be your top-three list of things you absolutely, positively would need to see present in that game -- whether it be in the story or the feature list?

    Faithfull DnD rulset adaptation. I'm not saying that every DnD game has to be like Temple of Elemental Evil, some trade-offs are fine and neccesary (like redesigned system for real-time with pause combat) but it's really upsetting when game mechanics in a supposedly DnD game are nothing like DnD (yep I'm looking at you Sowrd Coast Legends). Sadly, there haven't been much mainstream DnD games after Storm of Zehir and not a single one of them had faitfull ruleset adaptation. It seems like those kind of devs don't actually care about DnD and they just needed some famous brand to slap over their product... Just look at NWN and NWN2! Those are great examples of solid DnD adaptation.

    Don't take this the wrong way but it's highly unlikely any videogame studio out there is capable of creating better (more complex, fun, balanced...) ruleset because there's surely not enough people, time and neccessary focus to pull something like that off. And general consensus seems to be that 5th edition is pretty great anyway.

    helmo1977
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,776
    1. SMOOTH FLOWING COMBAT

    if you really want a dnd game to shine, combat needs to feel smooth and not clunky, between the bg series/iwd series and neverwinter night series, I think bg2 got it best, bg2 combat wise from bg1 was a huge improvement and it just felt smooth as eggs, iwd wasn't bad, but it felt a little clunky when you only had that one/ one and half attacks per round thing, and it felt a little eh, neverwinter nights, was outrageously clunky as balls, although the dodge and parry animations were a nice touch, battles were way to unnecessarily drawn out for long periods of time, and really made the combat anti climatic, nwn2 did do a better job of this, but it still felt a little clunky, although it was way way better than nwn 1, I also think bg2 was the best because it was quick as well, just the wonderfully smooth and quick combat just fit so nicely, and if your battle was long, it felt way more epic than in nwn where at low levels battles just took forever by default

    2. A HUGE CAST OF MONSTERS TO BATTLE

    again bg2 shines on this the best, the huge array of baddies you fight against was such a nice touch, bg1's baddies can get kind of stale quick ( mostly because its a low level game so its hard to bring in the more formidable baddies) and with iwd games, they had some good selection but every baddie type you just see once, and never see again, and then nwn 1/2 was just boringly plain, they were missing out on huge amounts of enemy types for a while, so I say, if you are going to make a dnd game, grab the monster manual and put every single one of those monsters in your game somewhere, and if you want to get more brownie points, you can give some of your monsters alternate versions as well ( like the giants/golems/demons/devils and how bg1 did gnolls and hobgoblins where they had different types of those) that may seem like a lot of work, but you would be well praised for it for sure

    3. VERSATILITY

    I think one of the reasons why bg2 still gets so much replay value out of it is the outrageous amount of versatility you get with it, despite the fact there are lots of restrictions, there is still tons and tons of options, the class kit thing was an amazing add on and really help add flavor to otherwise boring classes, plus I still like how the dual/multi class feature works, it still fits quite well with the bg games, now granted things have changed a bit since then so here is what I would suggest: lots of race options, maybe do it nwn2 style, they had a huge amount of race options, which is very nice touch, the more selection you have, the better, with classes, maybe do it a little bg2 style, were you have your set classes ( AT LEAST 10 choices) and give them all BALANCED kit options, and then just for the extra kick in the pants, ( if you are using dnd rules) still have prestige class options to dual class into, granted this would be a lot of work to make so many classes and make them all balanced, but trust me, if you could pull it off, it would be an outrageous selling point of your game, more options in every situation is always better than less options, you want replay value, not play once then throw the game away value, if anyting, I think my 3rd point outshines the rest, lots of race/class options make them balanced and you will find yourself with a very VERY fun rpg game

    DJKajuruJuliusBorisov
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    1. AD&D ruleset

    2. Ravenloft

    3. Joinable NPCs that we wish were real (I'm looking at you, Tiax!)

    DJKajurubrunardoJuliusBorisov
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    edited August 2016
    1. As faithful (or more) to the 5e ruleset as BG1 and 2 were to the 2e ruleset.
    2. Make every companion as deep as the romanceable companions, give the ones you can't romance friendship conversations/questlines just as deep as any of the romance conversations/questlines! Make ending slides that reflect the degree of friendship/love/(fear?) you achieved with each character by the end (maybe vary the type of friendship as well, did you earn their love and loyalty or their fear and compliance? would make good/evil "friendship" conversation paths more unique to those kinds of playthroughs? the stuff in the bracketed part is just a thought, not a necessity...but I'd love to see evil NPCs who don't respect their evil leader in the final slide and then play through again and aggressively command their respect to reveal a different version of them committed to your evil vision...hell, having a few G/N characters you can seduce to Evil and a few E/N characters you can redeem to Good would also be pretty kick ass).
    3. Make choices matter. Choices in let's say between a quarter and half (or more if you can handle it!) of the minor quests should have some nod later on in the game that varies based on your choices, and I would say a minimum of 75% of the main story quests and companion quests should have divergence that really stands out based on the choices you make (and hopefully not just two, three+ at a minimum) and have a plethora of ending variations that result. I like feeling like I can replay a game four times without treading too much of the same ground each time (outside of the beginning parts, which by necessity are often uniform to teach players the ropes and introduce them to the overarching story and themes).

    If I had a 4th, it'd be something out of a list of: isometric, moddable, deep character customization options, etc...but I've seen the choices warring for 4th on my list so many times in this thread as part of someone's top 3 that I'm pretty confident I don't need to add a 4th.

    Oh, and of the dragons/no dragons, multiplayer/no multiplayer debates I see warring through people's top three choices on this thread I gotta say I'm with the yes dragons/yes multiplayer curmudgeons and against the curmudgeons on the no sides, ready to wield my Curmudgeon Bludgeon in grim battle.

    AlonsoJuliusBorisov
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Now I want to create a Curmudgeon Bludgeon Dungeon.

    GenderNihilismGirdlesemiticgoddessJuliusBorisov
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    Dee said:

    Now I want to create a Curmudgeon Bludgeon Dungeon.

    I'd just like to nudge in to suggest a watery area for us to trudgen through with our Curmudgeon Bludgeons if you ever get around to putting the drudge in to do this so we can work out our grudge in the Curmudgeon Bludgeon Dungeon.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited August 2016

    Dee said:

    Now I want to create a Curmudgeon Bludgeon Dungeon.

    I'd just like to nudge in to suggest a watery area for us to trudgen through with our Curmudgeon Bludgeons if you ever get around to putting the drudge in to do this so we can work out our grudge in the Curmudgeon Bludgeon Dungeon.
    Featuring the voice talents of Lin-Manuel Miranda Leslie Odom Jr Daveed Diggs Renee Elise Goldsberry literally anyone from Hamilton, probably.

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • FreyaFreya Member Posts: 28
    edited August 2016

    For the sake of argument, let's pretend we were making a D&D game of some kind.

    What would be your top-three list of things you absolutely, positively would need to see present in that game -- whether it be in the story or the feature list?

    Hm...

    1. Side stories

    I think the thing that I loved most about Bioware games and D&D games in general are kind of the "side-elements" not necessarily side quests, but just stuff that takes you off the beaten path.

    Like in Baldur's Gate 2, I just thought the whole sequence in the Copper Coronet and everything about it was pretty awesome, the kind of detour into investigating it all and everything kind of became the main event in many ways. Then, before I knew it I was traveling inter-dimensionally in an old mage fortress to different planets and all that.

    I think Dragon Age also had this in some elements as well, basically, those just kind of moments where a character's side conversation or element becomes kind of the focus and you get to have fun banter and jokes, or perhaps, intensity and drama, as the case may be...

    I think also this plays a bit into the "unforeseen consequences" where it's like, you start off doing one thing, but then that leads to another, and then before you know it you are somewhere else entirely. The kind of pleasant surprise of being taken somewhere else is something I definitely like.

    2. Technical achievement

    I know a lot of people don't really mention this but having a game that feels polished and presentable with kind of a neat user interface and all that is always nice to have. This isn't something I necessarily experience in a lot of games, but I think for some reason it's lost a bit to just have nice new shiny particle effects and stuff like that, which caters to my inner superficial child.

    It can be challenging to have a smooth running D&D game when there are so many variables, but it's pretty great when it all gels together.

    3. Ability checks in conversations

    I'm just borrowing this from what someone else said, I think that was kind of a neat gimmick in many ways for whatever reason, like having such low intellect in NWN making speech pretty difficult thought that was surprising and interesting!

    Although all that said, I think even if it doesn't have all those things per se, I'd probably still want to play it =-) being a sucker for D&D games and all that, but those are I guess the things that maybe jump out at me.

    GenderNihilismGirdleJuliusBorisov
  • simplessimples Member Posts: 540
    1. a well-written story where your character/party is not necessarily the center of the universe. for example: in bg you were the heroes of the sword coast, had a prophecy/destiny to fulfill etc. in pillars you were also a sort of chosen one. in planescape, however, you were just a part of a weird world, but you were fighting your OWN battle.
    2. isometric view, definitely. 3d graphics are not a must, i'd gladly play another IE game, but that probably won't happen.
    3. engaging, balanced npc's. not just party members, also antagonists, people you meet, etc.
    4. (sorry, adding an extra one) skill checks during dialogue. not just stats, also alignment, class, race-specific.

    GenderNihilismGirdle[Deleted User]JuliusBorisov
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Mr2150
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    4ward said:

    I'd also like to see checks during dialogue but not just for the main char but also for the guys you have in your party so that if one of your party members has an appropriate skill or attribute while your main char has not then let this party member throw in a line during dialogue so that other party members aren't just useful during combat but also in dialogues.

    It would be nice if there was a separation of "party leader" and "party spokesman". That way the tanky fighter would be in the lead during combat, but the high charisma bard would be the one talking to storekeepers and city guards without having to switch the characters around in the party order.

    GenderNihilismGirdlekanisathamf2112Schmaehgol
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    BillyYank said:

    4ward said:

    I'd also like to see checks during dialogue but not just for the main char but also for the guys you have in your party so that if one of your party members has an appropriate skill or attribute while your main char has not then let this party member throw in a line during dialogue so that other party members aren't just useful during combat but also in dialogues.

    It would be nice if there was a separation of "party leader" and "party spokesman". That way the tanky fighter would be in the lead during combat, but the high charisma bard would be the one talking to storekeepers and city guards without having to switch the characters around in the party order.
    assigning different companions to six different "role slots" for conversation would be really cool (i.e. "the menacing thug" for Strength, "party leader" for Charisma, "loremaster" for Int, "Philosopher" for Wis, etc, etc)

    DJKajurumodestvolta
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,776
    kind of like how storm of zehir did ?

    VallmyrGenderNihilismGirdle
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    I have Storm of Zehir but I never got that far into it (the only expansion I didn't, actually) so I'm not sure if it's what I'm thinking of or not.

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438
    When dialogue is opened in SoZ all your characters are brought to the dialogue box. If a character has something special to say they'll have a dialogue bubble. So a character with high appraise can say a line, then the character with high intimidate can say the next line, and so on.

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    Yeah that would actually be better than what I was thinking of lmao

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Yes, the SoZ system is good. It also includes class and alignment options. It avoids the issue of having to have the central character as the "Face" character.

    GenderNihilismGirdlesarevok57
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,796
    *Every or almost every stat should be useful in some way to every class. It's okay if, for example, high strength is better for a fighter than high wisdom is, but it shouldn't be much better. Planescape Torment did this very well; all the stats are useful for the Nameless One, regardless of what class he is, with the possible exception of Dexterity.
    *Every NPC companion should either be really good at something or have powerful and fun-to-use special abilities that no one else has. Once again, Planescape Torment is a great example.
    *If there are any enchanted weapons, they should have cool abilities that normal weapons don't have, rather than simply being slightly more damaging and slightly more accurate. Baldur's Gate 2 is a pretty good example.
    *Different classes should be as different from another as possible. Each class should have various unique abilities that cause it to play differently from any other class. Icewind Dale 1 is a great example.

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,793
    I hate when people talk about all the good things about NWN2. Makes me want to try to replay it.

    But I usually end up quitting the game in rage saying "#$%$^()* camera!"

    I should give it another go... eventually.

    ButtercheesesemiticgoddessGenderNihilismGirdle
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    Hey Beamdog and/or Obsidian, how about a remake of NWN2, making it the way it was meant to be >.>

    Vallmyrsarevok57GenderNihilismGirdleajwz
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,438

    Hey Beamdog and/or Obsidian, how about a remake of NWN2, making it the way it was meant to be >.>

    I can't like that enough.
    NWN2 is my all-time favorite CRPG.

    ButtercheeseGenderNihilismGirdle
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