My first impression was... the mage who came down the stairs at FAI.
Damn. it was such a crazy hard encounter. I had no idea how the hell to get past him till I heard my brother (who play table top AD&D) telling me to use arrow and disrupt him.
The next memorial crazy hard enemy was Skeleton Warrior at the maze in my first play through. It mauled down my tanker Khalid. I try to use the all mighty stinking cloud (OPed back then) and to my horror! What? What the hell is Magic Resistance?
For years subsequently playing BG, I always discovered new thing. One day my brother was showing off to me a pair of shiny scimitar and i saw it was like. WHAT +3 large swords?! WHERE?
The last items that surprised me with its existence was Full Plate Mail +1. It was 4 years later (I replayed 4-5 times at least using mage alone). And so sure I thought Full Plate Mail was the best AC armor in the game. that plate of the dark really make my jaws dropped.
I realised I didnt get that plate cos I always let Tamako go.
Several years ago, I had just finished Dragon Age: Origins and was interested in Baldur's Gate since DA:O was billed as a spiritual successor, so I bought BG2:EE on Steam. I was completely unprepared, had no understanding of the game mechanics, and had never played a hardcore CRPG before, and found it confusing, tedious, and boring. I put it away for a long time, until...
I played Pillars of Eternity and loved it, despite some reservations that I had and still have about its gameplay variety, and decided to take another crack at the BG series, this time starting with BG1:EE (2.0 beta, glad I went that route instead of 1.3, because the "1.3-ness" of IWD:EE annoys me whenever I play it) and consulting people on the Something Awful forums for advice. After a rough start (which included revising my own party in EEKeeper because my PC and his Create Party-generated friends were terribly built), I finally "got it" when I slowly reached level 2 with my newly revised party (starting the game with six characters: VERY BAD idea!), cleared out the gnoll stronghold, and recruited Minsc. I got a handle on the mechanics, dismissed some of my pre-made companions, and it all came together for me. I devoured BG1 and then BG2 immediately afterwards.
At the very end, before battling Amelyssan, I looked at my characters' godlike equipment and stats and then thought back to getting my entire party eaten by spiders in some dude's house at the beginning of BG1. You can't get that in any other game. You might get the tiny little numbers turning into huge numbers in say, Final Fantasy V, but you can't get the feeling of steadily and seamlessly from a complete schmuck into a mythic figure.
Meanwhile my first experience with Icewind Dale was, after creating a party with all the knowledge I had gained playing the BG games, confidently engaging the group of goblins that is the first fight in the game and...getting owned. And then getting owned multiple times in the second fight. And the third. And the fourth. And the thirtieth.
Still don't know how to feel about that game. It did get easier after Dragon's Eye but the first half was immensely frustrating.
@Woolie_Wool , Icewind Dale has a steeper tactics learning curve than even BG1. The reason those goblins are hard is that they have several archers standing down below where you can't get to them with your tanks without going through their tanks. Fights like that are why everybody in the party needs a ranged weapon. It can help if your mage takes Sleep for a starting spell, even though Sleep will be useless for the rest of the game past Easthaven (unlike in BG).
I'm sure people in the IWD forum would be glad to give you lots of pointers if you want. IWD is really good at setting up difficult strategic encounters using terrain and chokepoints. It also likes to use mobs (high numbers) and really tough boss fights. People who like the difficulty usually like it. I guess it's either your cup of tea or not.
IWD and SoD are really more combat simulation games than they are story games, although the combat scenarios are supported by some story as well as beautiful art and environment.
I think it was back in 2004, when I was in my teens..I didn't really understand the game mechanics.. And I was just fresh out of nwn, which was considerably more newb friendly. Safe to say I sucked at the game, even when using a guide..I got a hold of two ring of rams and I remembered killing kangax with it..Then I got his ring and I was like.. ''wtf is this all... all that hard work for a piece of shit ring!!?''
I didn't complete the game until a number of years later.
It's quite funny looking back on that now...almost blushing with embarrassment. While I am still not technically good at the game even nowadays, at least I don't consider the ring to be a bad item anymore^^
@Woolie_Wool , Icewind Dale has a steeper tactics learning curve than even BG1. The reason those goblins are hard is that they have several archers standing down below where you can't get to them with your tanks without going through their tanks. Fights like that are why everybody in the party needs a ranged weapon. It can help if your mage takes Sleep for a starting spell, even though Sleep will be useless for the rest of the game past Easthaven (unlike in BG).
I'm sure people in the IWD forum would be glad to give you lots of pointers if you want. IWD is really good at setting up difficult strategic encounters using terrain and chokepoints. It also likes to use mobs (high numbers) and really tough boss fights. People who like the difficulty usually like it. I guess it's either your cup of tea or not.
IWD and SoD are really more combat simulation games than they are story games, although the combat scenarios are supported by some story as well as beautiful art and environment.
I would certainly like IWD more if it were toned down to SoD levels. SoD got the difficulty level just right--the battles were challenging and unique without making me want to throw my mouse. Playing it on Core Rules was the best experience I've ever had with Infinity Engine combat.
Having my first BG experience now, after playing through BG2EE and IWDEE several times, and well, I have to admit this is weird. I walk into some mine, and it's pretty much teeming with kobolds, and *they can kill me!!?* This is going to take some time for me to adjust.
Having my first BG experience now, after playing through BG2EE and IWDEE several times, and well, I have to admit this is weird. I walk into some mine, and it's pretty much teeming with kobolds, and *they can kill me!!?* This is going to take some time for me to adjust.
Just wait until you hit another place in the game
where it is difficult to maneuver and groups of kobolds shoot enhanced arrows
You will never look at those reptilian bipeds the same way again.
Having my first BG experience now, after playing through BG2EE and IWDEE several times, and well, I have to admit this is weird. I walk into some mine, and it's pretty much teeming with kobolds, and *they can kill me!!?* This is going to take some time for me to adjust.
Look at it this way.
Lots of people tell you that other groups have tried going into those mines without success. So what were you thinking?
RP at it's best, lol.
I hate them and always level up beforehand and have never understood how others seem to find the mines easy.
@Woolie_Wool , Icewind Dale has a steeper tactics learning curve than even BG1. The reason those goblins are hard is that they have several archers standing down below where you can't get to them with your tanks without going through their tanks. Fights like that are why everybody in the party needs a ranged weapon. It can help if your mage takes Sleep for a starting spell, even though Sleep will be useless for the rest of the game past Easthaven (unlike in BG).
I'm sure people in the IWD forum would be glad to give you lots of pointers if you want. IWD is really good at setting up difficult strategic encounters using terrain and chokepoints. It also likes to use mobs (high numbers) and really tough boss fights. People who like the difficulty usually like it. I guess it's either your cup of tea or not.
IWD and SoD are really more combat simulation games than they are story games, although the combat scenarios are supported by some story as well as beautiful art and environment.
I would certainly like IWD more if it were toned down to SoD levels. SoD got the difficulty level just right--the battles were challenging and unique without making me want to throw my mouse. Playing it on Core Rules was the best experience I've ever had with Infinity Engine combat.
I find this statement interesting, because even on insane difficulty, I find IWD to be a complete joke for how easy it is ( but I am a power gamer, so I suppose that is the reason why?)
but based on that, I've been working on a mega mod, the mod to end all mods for IWD, a mod so good, it will literally knock people's socks off, and one of the main features of that mod, is that the difficulty setting has a huge impact on how the game is played, on higher difficulty settings, more monsters will be spawned in, and use better abilities, and on lower settings, less monsters will be spawned in and use less abilities, and so on
I've been working back to back 16+ hour days on this mod, bug squishing all the enhancements I've been making, and right now im about to start work on chapter 5, trust me, once it is finished, it is going to be something of art, and it will really enhanced on how the game is played and I think quite a few people will like it
I knew FMT wasn't really a good idea for this game but I just had to. Who knows, I might even make it in the end. After lots and lots of reloads.
FMT is sometimes considered one of the better choices in the saga. It's just that second edition AD&D is tough at low levels. Everyone here, I don't care how experienced, can tell you about that one unlucky roll for damage, save, initiative, etc, that borked a great low-level character. It keeps us humble. Relatively speaking.
It took me some time to like it as I expected it to be more like the old D&D goldbox games.
For example, I was disappointed not being able to create my own party (multiplayer trick was not well known then). Also I missed turn based combat, where you could exactly place fireballs and lighting bolts.
Finally, I really hated how randomly you died and sometimes even got chucked. In the goldbox games you did not die until -10 HP and you had time to bandage dying [<0 hp] members.
It also took me quite some time to get how overpowered ranged combat is. However, I was already well acquainted with how good sleep and haste are
It's funny because I remember my first character vividly, but I have only a blurry ideas on 2nd, 3rd or 4th. And then Shadows of Amn came out, so my first BG2 character also stuck in mind.
Male, Half-Elf, Thief, Kivan's portrait <- never met him so no problem STR 17 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 3 <- approximately Bought short bow, studded leather, longsword & buckler in Candlekeep. So happy. Rolled with Imoen, Jaheira, Wimp and Garrick for a while. Tried to keep one of Xzar/Montaron, didn't work out, so I kicked Garrick to make place for both. The fight ensued in front of Taerom's, I think the marriage won. I quit shortly after Gnoll Stronghold and Bandit Camp - definitely didn't get past Cloakwood then.
I found it very stupid. The decreasing AC, THAC0, many reversed saves, racial class restrictions, no proper multiclassing, the stupidest thing ever: dualclassing (only last year I knew that in PnP humans can choose ANY two classes, not the BG ones), stats that don't do anything, arrows stacking by 20, and 16-cell inventory. Thank gods the 2E is dead and gone. And the complete lack of tutorial, making you wander around at level 1 with 6HP or so. The UI was terrible, not telling you anything, making you to rely heavily on a poorly written manual. My first characters were hilariously bad because I tried to balance their stats around 10, like in a proper DnD game like NWN.
@carfax19 2E is the ONLY edition with proper multiclassing. Everything later is just hyperactive dual classing. Your issue with the stats, inventory, and ammo stacking is solely a BG thing. Not an issue with 2E in itself. There is a tutorial, you just missed it, and the UI, while visually boring, offered most relevant information. Its dated by today's standards, but nothing at the time it was released comapred.
Got both games plus IWD and their expansions around 2001, back when games came in big cardboard boxes and jewel cases. BG2 and IWD also came with large binder manuals that's as thick as some school textbooks, mostly filled with spell info. I introduced the games to several friends at school and they all got hooked on it (most people at school were playing CS or Diablo 2).
I remember getting bored and lost in BG1 after I got out of Candlekeep, then switched directly to BG2 which held me attention until the end of TOB. I played a male paladin who never strayed from the righteous path, but I did download mods which allow me to romance all three women as well as have all strongholds.
Got both games plus IWD and their expansions around 2001, back when games came in big cardboard boxes and jewel cases. BG2 and IWD also came with large binder manuals that's as thick as some school textbooks, mostly filled with spell info. I introduced the games to several friends at school and they all got hooked on it (most people at school were playing CS or Diablo 2).
I remember getting bored and lost in BG1 after I got out of Candlekeep, then switched directly to BG2 which held me attention until the end of TOB. I played a male paladin who never strayed from the righteous path, but I did download mods which allow me to romance all three women as well as have all strongholds.
I never got my BG1 big box back from a guy who borrowed it at school, but still have my BG2 box. Manual and map are lost, but still have the spell reference card, CDs and... the mousepad!
I must say I was awestruck with BG1 instantly and it took me a while to get used to BG2's setting. Exotic weapons, oriental undertones and Planar Sphere/Sahuagins/Underdark extravaganza were vastly different at first, especially that I embraced more low-profile, wanderer approach of the first game.
@carfax19 3E multiclassing isn't multiclassing. You aren't learning multiple classes at once, you are jumping between them at each level up like a caffeinated rabbit. This is far closer to how dual classing is in 2E than multiclassing.
There is a tutorial, odds are you walked right past it (or rather, them)
The character generation screen tells you what your stats do. You have to add up your points, but they are visible and easy to figure out. Enemy health isn't abstracted down to numbers, but you can mouse over them to see how close to death they are, "barely injured", "Near death", etc. Like I said, MOST relevant information is supplied.
@carfax19 3E multiclassing isn't multiclassing. You aren't learning multiple classes at once, you are jumping between them at each level upNo? If you are a Wizard/Cleric you can cast Cleric spells even if your last levelup was a Wizard. You are not jumping anywhere.
There is a tutorial...
Candlekeep is not a tutorial area.
The character generation screen tells you what your stats do.
No, it doesn't. What effect does 14 CHA have for Druids? (answer: none, yet the screen still calls it an "important" attribute) What effect does 14 CON have for Thieves? No answer. In NWN, for example, you can see what the attribute does, and see its bonuses (like 2 hp/level, +1 to hit, etc.)
you can mouse over them to see how close to death they are, "barely injured"
No, BG doesn't have it. It was added in IWD, and backported to BG2.
@carfax19 Could have fooled me, what with all the TUTORS telling you about how the game works. Maybe it is not what some people would think of as a tutorial, but I still think it serves well enough.
IMHO, if Candlekeep is not allowed to be considered a tutorial, then I would say that the prelude of NWN's OC, the Neverwinter Academy, isn't allowed to be considered a tutorial either. They both function in more or less the same way, in that they have NPCs that explain the various functions of the game, while at the same time mixing some plot in with the explaining. In both cases the tutorial aspects of the areas can be ignored if the player is more experienced and doesn't need them. In fact, BG does this much better than NWN seeing as the tutorial characters in NWN must be spoken to in order to advance through the game unlike the ones in BG.
No, it doesn't. What effect does 14 CHA have for Druids? (answer: none, yet the screen still calls it an "important" attribute) What effect does 14 CON have for Thieves? No answer. In NWN, for example, you can see what the attribute does, and see its bonuses (like 2 hp/level, +1 to hit, etc.)
The "Abilities" tab of the character record screen shows you the effect of character stats. It doesn't say there which stat is responsible for each effect, though you can get that information from the Adventurer's Guide or the Game Manual.
what with all the TUTORS telling you about how the game works. ... IMHO, if Candlekeep is not allowed to be considered a tutorial, then I would say that the prelude of NWN's OC, the Neverwinter Academy, isn't allowed to be considered a tutorial either.
Well, the NWN tutorial, the Prologue, shows you how does one do things in game, by making you do them, not telling about them. Also, the prologue makes you level 3. Even in Icewind Dale you are given a small town with a little cave to explore with chests, loot, and even a miniboss to boost your party to the level 2.
Seriously, the BG 'tutorial' was so bad it is ridiculed in the IWD2 tutorial.
The "Abilities" tab of the character record screen shows you the effect of character stats. It doesn't say there which stat is responsible for each effect...
They are not there in the character creation. If your user interface is inadequate and requires you to look up in the manual such critical information as one needed for the character creation, it is bad.
Comments
One day we spoke about being too busy to play tabletop anymore, with families and real life and all.
I said how cool it would be if there were a computer game that handled the dice rolls, etc. but be true to the original rules.
He says, "Seriously? You haven't heard of Baldur's Gate?" He probably mentioned NWN too.
Here I am still playing both.
I don't recall specifics of my first game, just so much time spent hiking the Sword Coast.
Let me ask my wife. She might remember.
second time when i was 18: "This is the greatest game ever."
Damn. it was such a crazy hard encounter. I had no idea how the hell to get past him till I heard my brother (who play table top AD&D) telling me to use arrow and disrupt him.
The next memorial crazy hard enemy was Skeleton Warrior at the maze in my first play through. It mauled down my tanker Khalid. I try to use the all mighty stinking cloud (OPed back then) and to my horror! What? What the hell is Magic Resistance?
For years subsequently playing BG, I always discovered new thing. One day my brother was showing off to me a pair of shiny scimitar and i saw it was like. WHAT +3 large swords?! WHERE?
The last items that surprised me with its existence was Full Plate Mail +1. It was 4 years later (I replayed 4-5 times at least using mage alone). And so sure I thought Full Plate Mail was the best AC armor in the game. that plate of the dark really make my jaws dropped.
I realised I didnt get that plate cos I always let Tamako go.
I played Pillars of Eternity and loved it, despite some reservations that I had and still have about its gameplay variety, and decided to take another crack at the BG series, this time starting with BG1:EE (2.0 beta, glad I went that route instead of 1.3, because the "1.3-ness" of IWD:EE annoys me whenever I play it) and consulting people on the Something Awful forums for advice. After a rough start (which included revising my own party in EEKeeper because my PC and his Create Party-generated friends were terribly built), I finally "got it" when I slowly reached level 2 with my newly revised party (starting the game with six characters: VERY BAD idea!), cleared out the gnoll stronghold, and recruited Minsc. I got a handle on the mechanics, dismissed some of my pre-made companions, and it all came together for me. I devoured BG1 and then BG2 immediately afterwards.
At the very end, before battling Amelyssan, I looked at my characters' godlike equipment and stats and then thought back to getting my entire party eaten by spiders in some dude's house at the beginning of BG1. You can't get that in any other game. You might get the tiny little numbers turning into huge numbers in say, Final Fantasy V, but you can't get the feeling of steadily and seamlessly from a complete schmuck into a mythic figure.
Meanwhile my first experience with Icewind Dale was, after creating a party with all the knowledge I had gained playing the BG games, confidently engaging the group of goblins that is the first fight in the game and...getting owned. And then getting owned multiple times in the second fight. And the third. And the fourth. And the thirtieth.
Still don't know how to feel about that game. It did get easier after Dragon's Eye but the first half was immensely frustrating.
I'm sure people in the IWD forum would be glad to give you lots of pointers if you want. IWD is really good at setting up difficult strategic encounters using terrain and chokepoints. It also likes to use mobs (high numbers) and really tough boss fights. People who like the difficulty usually like it. I guess it's either your cup of tea or not.
IWD and SoD are really more combat simulation games than they are story games, although the combat scenarios are supported by some story as well as beautiful art and environment.
I didn't complete the game until a number of years later.
It's quite funny looking back on that now...almost blushing with embarrassment. While I am still not technically good at the game even nowadays, at least I don't consider the ring to be a bad item anymore^^
Lots of people tell you that other groups have tried going into those mines without success.
So what were you thinking?
RP at it's best, lol.
I hate them and always level up beforehand and have never understood how others seem to find the mines easy.
but based on that, I've been working on a mega mod, the mod to end all mods for IWD, a mod so good, it will literally knock people's socks off, and one of the main features of that mod, is that the difficulty setting has a huge impact on how the game is played, on higher difficulty settings, more monsters will be spawned in, and use better abilities, and on lower settings, less monsters will be spawned in and use less abilities, and so on
I've been working back to back 16+ hour days on this mod, bug squishing all the enhancements I've been making, and right now im about to start work on chapter 5, trust me, once it is finished, it is going to be something of art, and it will really enhanced on how the game is played and I think quite a few people will like it
For example, I was disappointed not being able to create my own party (multiplayer trick was not well known then). Also I missed turn based combat, where you could exactly place fireballs and lighting bolts.
Finally, I really hated how randomly you died and sometimes even got chucked. In the goldbox games you did not die until -10 HP and you had time to bandage dying [<0 hp] members.
It also took me quite some time to get how overpowered ranged combat is. However, I was already well acquainted with how good sleep and haste are
Male, Half-Elf, Thief, Kivan's portrait <- never met him so no problem
STR 17 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 3 <- approximately
Bought short bow, studded leather, longsword & buckler in Candlekeep. So happy.
Rolled with Imoen, Jaheira, Wimp and Garrick for a while. Tried to keep one of Xzar/Montaron, didn't work out, so I kicked Garrick to make place for both. The fight ensued in front of Taerom's, I think the marriage won. I quit shortly after Gnoll Stronghold and Bandit Camp - definitely didn't get past Cloakwood then.
I remember getting bored and lost in BG1 after I got out of Candlekeep, then switched directly to BG2 which held me attention until the end of TOB. I played a male paladin who never strayed from the righteous path, but I did download mods which allow me to romance all three women as well as have all strongholds.
I must say I was awestruck with BG1 instantly and it took me a while to get used to BG2's setting. Exotic weapons, oriental undertones and Planar Sphere/Sahuagins/Underdark extravaganza were vastly different at first, especially that I embraced more low-profile, wanderer approach of the first game.
There is a tutorial, odds are you walked right past it (or rather, them)
The character generation screen tells you what your stats do. You have to add up your points, but they are visible and easy to figure out. Enemy health isn't abstracted down to numbers, but you can mouse over them to see how close to death they are, "barely injured", "Near death", etc. Like I said, MOST relevant information is supplied.
IMHO, if Candlekeep is not allowed to be considered a tutorial, then I would say that the prelude of NWN's OC, the Neverwinter Academy, isn't allowed to be considered a tutorial either. They both function in more or less the same way, in that they have NPCs that explain the various functions of the game, while at the same time mixing some plot in with the explaining. In both cases the tutorial aspects of the areas can be ignored if the player is more experienced and doesn't need them. In fact, BG does this much better than NWN seeing as the tutorial characters in NWN must be spoken to in order to advance through the game unlike the ones in BG.
Seriously, the BG 'tutorial' was so bad it is ridiculed in the IWD2 tutorial.