While the wilderness meandering is one of my favourite parts of BG1 as well (No other game has captured the feeling of aimless adventuring and just stumbling upon fun quite like BG did, I'm mt opinion), I really don't think it would make sense in BG2. You're just too high level, adventurers at that point don't deal with the random wolves and gibberling infestations any longer. And having the kind of beings that does challenge a level 10-20 character hang around every bend of the road just doesn't make sense, it strains the suspension of disbelief and diminish the enemies. You'd either end up with things like Mindflayers and Beholders becoming the Xvarts and Kobolds of BG2, or in the Elder Scrolls situation of having simple bandits run around in So much Glass or Daedric equipment that you can't help wondering why they don't just sell the gear and live like kings for the rest of their lives (like in ToB where every dumbarse and his goat has magical swords and armour). And either one would strain my suspension of disbelief.
It's one of the reasons I prefer low level play, to be honest.
As @dunbar says the encounters don't have to be all fighting. And as there are tough fights in Athkatla itself without introducing the enemies you meet later in game, why couldn't the same be implemented in the wilderness areas?
Of course you end up with the problem of having too much XP. But then Watchers Keep was made available in SOA which is almost game breaking on it's own. Now that in my opinion was a really bad choice to make. So lets consider SOA with a six NPC party and no WK, would you be that overpowered making your way to Trademeet or Windspear?
I think as well that some of the encounters in Athkatla itself would have been better to be placed in Wilderness Areas. For instance the group you meet in the sewers, far too easy to exploit the moment you have a mage that can cast web/cloudkill/fireballs. And amazing high value loot.
I think the issue you highlight is linked to players knowing the game very well and thereby exploiting the gameplay along "power gaming" lines. But taking a six person party through somewhat logically, as the game was designed to do, many of the issues of OP are being created by players themselves.
i agree about kivan and faldorn, but why should coran be a swashbuckler?
His personality just feels like one. Overly charming, not to be trusted around ladies (and maybe even men), etc. Plus, if you were to create a swashbuckler type sans kits, a F/T would probably be the best build. And wuddaya know, he was a F/T.
More (story, areas, kits, interactions, errrrythang).
I would be fine with borderline painful slow xp gain if it meant there were more areas to explore and more challenges to face. Coming up against certain things and being wholly unprepared (Like stumbling across Durlag's tower at level 2).
i agree about kivan and faldorn, but why should coran be a swashbuckler?
His personality just feels like one. Overly charming, not to be trusted around ladies (and maybe even men), etc. Plus, if you were to create a swashbuckler type sans kits, a F/T would probably be the best build. And wuddaya know, he was a F/T.
i might agree but it's too much of a departure from how he currently works as an NPC mechanically (BOWS). can't overlook that side completely...
The wilderness wandering is GREAT the first time through in BG1. But after you know where all the interesting encounters are, and where nothing interesting is, BG1 loses a lot of its magic because of that. It goes from exploring the unknown, to actively wanting to skip parts of the game because nothing happens there. That's really the biggest reason BG1 lags behind BG2 for me.
I think perhaps my spatial awareness is a little undeveloped.
Of course I know where the interesting encounters are, but how many times do I wander around missing them by the width of a bush? And for me that's a mechanic of the game that draws me into the world.
Two stand out in particular, finding bloody Brage and encountering the hostile group on the Basilisk map.
Then of course there is all that black. Now I don't go crazy but OMG is that area of the Cloakwood annoying when, without wandering around (and you don't because of the layout), by the time you jump to the next one the map you leave looks like a slug has crawled across it.
I would make dual classing from Kit into another Kit possible. As well as multiclassing Kits. Aside from the vast and cool possibilites coming to mind, my rationale for this is the following:
Before I play Baldurs Gate, I always decide on what kind of playthrough I want it to be this time. This means that I decide on the boundaries of what I'll allow myself to do and what I don't allow myself to do. Some playthroughs are high RP ( no min maxing, no metagaming), while other playthroughs are solo shadowdancer>mage runs were I try to crush the game as hard as possible ( i.e. involving SCS and so forth). In other words, any balancing restrictions are really out of the window, based on what the player decides ahead of time.
The restrictions regarding kits on dualing / multiclassing seems to be an old balancing aspect of the game. But to me, THIS portion of game balancing I already decide for myself anyhow. Allowing players to chose the class they want to would really be my kind of thing for the baldurs gate series.
Replace every character in the game, except Jan Jansen, with one of Jan Jansen's relatives. Also add rare turnips you can collect throughout the game to craft special items or sell for lots of gold.
Replace every character in the game, except Jan Jansen, with one of Jan Jansen's relatives. Also add rare turnips you can collect throughout the game to craft special items or sell for lots of gold.
Oh good, finally the motivation I need to accept my divine heritage and go on an endless murder spree.
I would make dual classing from Kit into another Kit possible. As well as multiclassing Kits.
i would only allow dualing to a kit from a pure class, that would be a really solid change and i think it's just an interface issue, because it'salready supported
For every gold piece earned in-game, a real dollar is deposited into your bank account electronically.
What about every gold piece you spend deducting a dollar? If this really happened, I bet there would be a whole lot of "naked poverty runs" played. And a lot more solo mages and monks rolled.
What about every gold piece you spend deducting a dollar? If this really happened, I bet there would be a whole lot of "naked poverty runs" played. And a lot more solo mages and monks rolled.
LOL! "No-reload, SCS, naked poverty." I'd also expect a sharp rise in reported thefts in stores from Baldur's Gate to Athkatla. Would paladins really be keeping such a close eye on Jan Jansen anymore?
Now I play strict re-load anyway (more excitement and gratification, for me at least) but that seems like it might add just that little increase in excitement during hard fights or just making it through a chapter. That way there is not even the oftentimes debate in the mind that we can feel about reloading, even if we don't reload anyway.
BG1: Randomize wilderness areas when starting a new game. By which I mean, don't randomize geography (gnoll fortress is gnoll fortress), but randomize non-geography-specific encounters (hobgoblins, bounty hunters, Mutamin, Rufie, etc.) and their attendant loot.
BG2: Introduce lots of wilderness areas, then proceed as above.
Change the blatantly racist character creation option screen for race.
Humans should not be at the top! It is so annoying! I would even... accept an... alphabetical arrangement. This way it would go from top to bottom, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Orcs, Humans.
...
Perhaps randomise the order... Ladies should go first on the gender selection screen as well.
...
Come to think of it. Why do fighters get to go on top! Surely Abjurers should get the top slot!
IT IS SO UNFAIR! WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY! WHAT ABOUT JUSTICE! DO WE WANT TO RAISE OUR CHILDREN AND THE UNDEAD IN SUCH A SOCIETY! I SAY NOOOOOOOO!
After the addition of wild mages & their accompanying wild surges, a darn bank to store some cash in. For that matter a thief could try and rob it, both the players and general crooks around town. "Your bank as been robbed, you lost..."
If you could change any one thing, what would it be?
Mine would be the addition of a better alignment/reputation system.
I agree. It would be great to have alignment changes in response to actions throughout the game, and not at a single event towards the endgame. That is probably the biggest feature missing.
If you could change any one thing, what would it be?
Mine would be the addition of a better alignment/reputation system.
I agree. It would be great to have alignment changes in response to actions throughout the game, and not at a single event towards the endgame. That is probably the biggest feature missing.
It's a nice idea, but just like changing the reputation system it's probably a big undertaking. Especially if no dialogue or particular mechanics were made to reflect any of those alignment changes. I think it would prompt the question ''Why doesn't the world respond to my character in any way, when I've done all of this?''
I creates a another slew of problems imo. At best it would be fluff.
If you could change any one thing, what would it be?
Mine would be the addition of a better alignment/reputation system.
I agree. It would be great to have alignment changes in response to actions throughout the game, and not at a single event towards the endgame. That is probably the biggest feature missing.
It's a nice idea, but just like changing the reputation system it's probably a big undertaking. Especially if no dialogue or particular mechanics were made to reflect any of those alignment changes. I think it would prompt the question ''Why doesn't the world respond to my character in any way, when I've done all of this?''
I creates a another slew of problems imo. At best it would be fluff.
It’d be interesting if there were two things the game tracked. Reputation and alignment. This would mean that you’d have dialogue choices like:
(1) “I will help you. It is the right thing to do.” (You will do it and believe what you say) (2) “I will help you. It is the right thing to do.” (You will do it, but you are really doing it for the reward)
Option 1 pushes your alignment towards good, and gives a reputation boost. Option 2 doesn’t push your alignment towards good, but still gives a reputation boost.
Then add in items and dialogue which is tied to alignment so the choices matter mechanically.
It’d make for a much more immersive experience. Especially for Paladins...that is, if you include a one-time quest to get back lost paladin-hood. Or if a fallen paladin had the choice of becoming a blackguard...which opens only when you actually become evil through your actions.
There was a mod called Virtue which did this for the vanilla game but it conflicted with many mods unfortunately. Hard to code to keep up with all the potential acts players can perform as well.
Change the blatantly racist character creation option screen for race.
Humans should not be at the top! It is so annoying! I would even... accept an... alphabetical arrangement. This way it would go from top to bottom, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Orcs, Humans.
...
Perhaps randomise the order... Ladies should go first on the gender selection screen as well.
...
Come to think of it. Why do fighters get to go on top! Surely Abjurers should get the top slot!
IT IS SO UNFAIR! WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY! WHAT ABOUT JUSTICE! DO WE WANT TO RAISE OUR CHILDREN AND THE UNDEAD IN SUCH A SOCIETY! I SAY NOOOOOOOO!
Pfft!
If Ao wanted any member of the rotund pseudo-sentient kneehigh subhuman races to be equal, he would have made sure they were born elven or human.
I mean, do YOU think it is a coincidence the servile people have the perfect height and topside flat skulls to balance your beer mug on? Honestly!!? Come on...
@Shandaxx ... I think we just not only had a full blown case of gnomophobia on the forums for over three years... But an aggravated verbal assault on Dwarves and Halflings being suggested to be of lesser importance!
Comments
Of course you end up with the problem of having too much XP. But then Watchers Keep was made available in SOA which is almost game breaking on it's own. Now that in my opinion was a really bad choice to make.
So lets consider SOA with a six NPC party and no WK, would you be that overpowered making your way to Trademeet or Windspear?
I think as well that some of the encounters in Athkatla itself would have been better to be placed in Wilderness Areas.
For instance the group you meet in the sewers, far too easy to exploit the moment you have a mage that can cast web/cloudkill/fireballs. And amazing high value loot.
I think the issue you highlight is linked to players knowing the game very well and thereby exploiting the gameplay along "power gaming" lines.
But taking a six person party through somewhat logically, as the game was designed to do, many of the issues of OP are being created by players themselves.
I would be fine with borderline painful slow xp gain if it meant there were more areas to explore and more challenges to face. Coming up against certain things and being wholly unprepared (Like stumbling across Durlag's tower at level 2).
Of course I know where the interesting encounters are, but how many times do I wander around missing them by the width of a bush?
And for me that's a mechanic of the game that draws me into the world.
Two stand out in particular, finding bloody Brage and encountering the hostile group on the Basilisk map.
Then of course there is all that black.
Now I don't go crazy but OMG is that area of the Cloakwood annoying when, without wandering around (and you don't because of the layout), by the time you jump to the next one the map you leave looks like a slug has crawled across it.
Before I play Baldurs Gate, I always decide on what kind of playthrough I want it to be this time. This means that I decide on the boundaries of what I'll allow myself to do and what I don't allow myself to do. Some playthroughs are high RP ( no min maxing, no metagaming), while other playthroughs are solo shadowdancer>mage runs were I try to crush the game as hard as possible ( i.e. involving SCS and so forth). In other words, any balancing restrictions are really out of the window, based on what the player decides ahead of time.
The restrictions regarding kits on dualing / multiclassing seems to be an old balancing aspect of the game. But to me, THIS portion of game balancing I already decide for myself anyhow. Allowing players to chose the class they want to would really be my kind of thing for the baldurs gate series.
My suggestion would be to change the storyline for ToB significantly. The extension was rushed and is too linear and too forced.
I suspect they'll be seeing a record number of beta testers if it's adopted as a feature.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/66442/so-what-do-you-do-when-you-die-on-a-no-reload-run#latest @JoenSo & @BelgarathMTH
Now I play strict re-load anyway (more excitement and gratification, for me at least) but that seems like it might add just that little increase in excitement during hard fights or just making it through a chapter. That way there is not even the oftentimes debate in the mind that we can feel about reloading, even if we don't reload anyway.
BG2: Introduce lots of wilderness areas, then proceed as above.
Humans should not be at the top! It is so annoying! I would even... accept an... alphabetical arrangement. This way it would go from top to bottom, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Halflings, Half-Orcs, Humans.
...
Perhaps randomise the order... Ladies should go first on the gender selection screen as well.
...
Come to think of it. Why do fighters get to go on top! Surely Abjurers should get the top slot!
IT IS SO UNFAIR! WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY! WHAT ABOUT JUSTICE! DO WE WANT TO RAISE OUR CHILDREN AND THE UNDEAD IN SUCH A SOCIETY! I SAY NOOOOOOOO!
I creates a another slew of problems imo. At best it would be fluff.
(1) “I will help you. It is the right thing to do.” (You will do it and believe what you say)
(2) “I will help you. It is the right thing to do.” (You will do it, but you are really doing it for the reward)
Option 1 pushes your alignment towards good, and gives a reputation boost.
Option 2 doesn’t push your alignment towards good, but still gives a reputation boost.
Then add in items and dialogue which is tied to alignment so the choices matter mechanically.
It’d make for a much more immersive experience. Especially for Paladins...that is, if you include a one-time quest to get back lost paladin-hood. Or if a fallen paladin had the choice of becoming a blackguard...which opens only when you actually become evil through your actions.
http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=content&task=blogcategory&id=107&Itemid=82/
If Ao wanted any member of the rotund pseudo-sentient kneehigh subhuman races to be equal, he would have made sure they were born elven or human.
I mean, do YOU think it is a coincidence the servile people have the perfect height and topside flat skulls to balance your beer mug on? Honestly!!? Come on...
@Grum bring your axe! We got kneecaps to chop!