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  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 825
    Interesting thing. From what I understand second edition had no particular rules about scribing scrolls. They had rules about learning spells from other mages, less "roll a die and win/lose" and more "It'll take you this long to learn a spell of this level", but this whole system was invented wholecloth for the game.

    Losing in general may be "A part of the game", but this particular form of loss was not traditionally a part of the Dungeons and Dragons experience.

    ThacoBellWise_Grimwald
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,455
    2nd PnP do have rules for scribing scrolls and they are quite severe, exactly because they wanted to prevent a wizard from having and distributing scrolls around.

    And not being able to have a spell is the most common way of losing in AD&D as Raise Dead/Resurrection are a thing but "Restore Lost Scroll" is not.

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 653
    And might I add, that I could fully accept a 15% chance of breaking celestial fury when I pick it up - if I have the BG1 weapon proficiency types installed.

    The loss of celestial fury will then be mitigated by picking up another great “great sword”. The loss of the CF is only unbearable if you have invested 5 pips in katana... not if I have 5 pips in great swords.

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,001
    edited February 3
    Forget it. Can’t be bothered to start a debate.

    semiticgodOlvynChuru
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,782
    edited February 3
    Raduziel said:

    Raise Dead/Resurrection are a thing but "Restore Lost Scroll" is not.

    But isn't that because you know the person or vessel that you raise whereas you do not fully know the spell in the scroll?

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,131
    AionZ said:
    Forget it. Can’t be bothered to start a debate.
    I've found that life online is a lot easier when you don't feel compelled to argue with people.

    OlvynChuruWarChiefZeke
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,455
    lroumen said:
    Raise Dead/Resurrection are a thing but "Restore Lost Scroll" is not.
    But isn't that because you know the person or vessel that you raise whereas you do not fully know the spell in the scroll?
    I mean no offense, but I can't see how this raises an argument.

    My point was: even death is not a permanent loss in D&D, but scrolls are.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,782
    edited February 3
    Understood. I merely suggest that maybe the "knowledge of" is a factor that plays a role.

    Post edited by lroumen on
  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 3,001
    edited February 3
    @semiticgod

    Arguing ‘X is right and Y is wrong’ is easy.

    Arguing ‘you like X but I hate X and this is why X sucks’ is a pain and not worth it.

    semiticgodWise_Grimwald
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,657
    Raduziel said:
    Knowledge is power, wizards know that and they are not willing to share and help other wizards to become powerful - at least not powerful enough to steal their grimoire.
    I think one of the reasons scrolls are so weird in the BG's is the fact that we can't steal anyone's grimoire. I remember playing mages in PnP, where beating a wizard in his lair was like Christmas. Let everyone else argue about the gold and jewels, I want that spellbook! Tranzig and Daevon should have been a windfall for a wizard character. 

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 825
    Oldie but a goodie.

    You can kill any cow in Candlekeep with impunity. Except for Nessa, Dreppin's Prize Cow, which will turn the town hostile.

    Wise_GrimwaldThacoBellWinterisle
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,782
    edited February 4
    Perhaps she is a milk cow and the others are meat cows? 💡

    Wise_Grimwald
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 825
    Oldie but a goodie.

    You can kill any cow in Candlekeep with impunity. Except for Nessa, Dreppin's Prize Cow, which will turn the town hostile.
    Nessa is the exception. Killing just about any scenery animal in Baldur's Gate (e.g. cows, horses, chickens, cats, rats, bats, squirrels) does not turn nearby townsfolk hostile. Doing so is an effective way to level up early on in Legacy of Bhaal, since these animals don't fight back, they are usually unarmed (giving you +4 to hit and damage against them), and they each give over 2000 experience if you have the bonus experience turned on.

    I just think it's a fun touch. He talks about how much he loves this particular cow, his prize winning cow, and that's reflected in how the NPC's react when you kill her.

    Though now that I think about it I do have to question what festivals it was winning prizes at. Do people come to candlekeep to show off their cows? Does he take his cows out into the world, to show them off at festivals, then pay the exorbitant fee to reenter candlekeep every time?

    I have to assume that some merchants are allowed to enter to peddle their wares without paying the fee, so maybe he gets clearance by bringing cow stuff in and out of town.

    Winterisle
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    Oldie but a goodie.

    You can kill any cow in Candlekeep with impunity. Except for Nessa, Dreppin's Prize Cow, which will turn the town hostile.
    Nessa is the exception. Killing just about any scenery animal in Baldur's Gate (e.g. cows, horses, chickens, cats, rats, bats, squirrels) does not turn nearby townsfolk hostile. Doing so is an effective way to level up early on in Legacy of Bhaal, since these animals don't fight back, they are usually unarmed (giving you +4 to hit and damage against them), and they each give over 2000 experience if you have the bonus experience turned on.

    I just think it's a fun touch. He talks about how much he loves this particular cow, his prize winning cow, and that's reflected in how the NPC's react when you kill her.

    Though now that I think about it I do have to question what festivals it was winning prizes at. Do people come to candlekeep to show off their cows? Does he take his cows out into the world, to show them off at festivals, then pay the exorbitant fee to reenter candlekeep every time?

    I have to assume that some merchants are allowed to enter to peddle their wares without paying the fee, so maybe he gets clearance by bringing cow stuff in and out of town.
    Or maybe it's just an event inside Candlekeep, and Nessa keeps winning due to lack of competition.

    lolienWise_GrimwaldThacoBellChronicler
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 787
    Wouldn't surprise me if the Candlekeep entrance fee is just a huge sham to keep that darn bhaalspawn out. Merchants, servants and random wannabe-assassins have no problems with it.

    Wise_GrimwaldThacoBellChronicler
  • InKalInKal Member Posts: 141
    Firkraag has WIS 3 and CHAR 9.

    for comparison Gromnir has WIS 10 and CHAR 12 respectively. L O L 

    also Cattie Brie is male. Oh, yes! She is Drizzt actually, OG devs changed only name, didn't bother with anything else. Mizhena much, internet?




    Wise_Grimwald
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,252
    Oldie but a goodie.

    You can kill any cow in Candlekeep with impunity. Except for Nessa, Dreppin's Prize Cow, which will turn the town hostile.
    Nessa is the exception. Killing just about any scenery animal in Baldur's Gate (e.g. cows, horses, chickens, cats, rats, bats, squirrels) does not turn nearby townsfolk hostile. Doing so is an effective way to level up early on in Legacy of Bhaal, since these animals don't fight back, they are usually unarmed (giving you +4 to hit and damage against them), and they each give over 2000 experience if you have the bonus experience turned on.
    Before the rules were changed I sometimes used to kill cows with the ugly stick (A staff that reduced charisma by 1 occasionally) whilst wearing Algernon's Cloak. This raised my charisma to 25. Can't do it now. :'(

    StummvonBordwehr
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,313
    Oldie but a goodie.

    You can kill any cow in Candlekeep with impunity. Except for Nessa, Dreppin's Prize Cow, which will turn the town hostile.
    Nessa is the exception. Killing just about any scenery animal in Baldur's Gate (e.g. cows, horses, chickens, cats, rats, bats, squirrels) does not turn nearby townsfolk hostile. Doing so is an effective way to level up early on in Legacy of Bhaal, since these animals don't fight back, they are usually unarmed (giving you +4 to hit and damage against them), and they each give over 2000 experience if you have the bonus experience turned on.
    Before the rules were changed I sometimes used to kill cows with the ugly stick (A staff that reduced charisma by 1 occasionally) whilst wearing Algernon's Cloak. This raised my charisma to 25. Can't do it now. :'(
    Ehh, if you rely on serious exploits to pull something like that off, may as well Keeper it in...

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,782
    There is a difference between doing it in game and doing in outside of the game ;).

    I liked the rod of reverse beautification.

    RaduzielStummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 825
    JoenSo said:
    Wouldn't surprise me if the Candlekeep entrance fee is just a huge sham to keep that darn bhaalspawn out. Merchants, servants and random wannabe-assassins have no problems with it.

    My assumption is that Carbos and Shank didn't enter the Candlekeep through the front door. There are always ways to bypass inconvenient laws if you're so inclined.

    StummvonBordwehrWise_GrimwaldWinterisle
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 2,252
    JoenSo said:
    Wouldn't surprise me if the Candlekeep entrance fee is just a huge sham to keep that darn bhaalspawn out. Merchants, servants and random wannabe-assassins have no problems with it.

    My assumption is that Carbos and Shank didn't enter the Candlekeep through the front door. There are always ways to bypass inconvenient laws if you're so inclined.
      Bribery, stealth, climbing the walls etc.

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