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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I also forgot to mention the Steel tariff exceptions granted to Canada, Mexico and the E.U. Is going to expire tonight at midnight.

    As mentioned prior, this is a bullying practise Trump is attempting to use against all three in other trade negotiations. He knows they won’t hold up in WHO but he thinks they’ll do enough damage that the respective parties will cave.
  • GaelicVigilGaelicVigil Member Posts: 111
    Ammar said:

    Good news. Trump to pardon Dinesh D'Souza. It was crazy that this guy was used as a political prisoner while Rosie ODonnel essentially did the same thing and Hillary and half the DOJ still walks free for trying to throw the election in Hillary's favor.

    Good job Trump.

    Hillary was investigated for years, and none of the many investigations found anything. And if you honestly feel Rosie ODonnell (no idea who that is, to be honest) did the same thing, then the proper thing would be demand her to be punished as well instead of D'Souza.

    Given that he supported the party of Trump by his activities, there is only one word for this: corruption.

    If someone doesn't even know who Rosie O'Donnell is, then it's just a little difficult to take that person's knowledge about Hillary Clinton's crimes seriously. Dontcha think?

    Anyway, here's a primer on her crimes that the many investigations actually did indeed find:

    1. Perjury: Hillary Clinton signed documents testifying that she turned over all work-related emails to the State Department, on orders from a federal judge, under penalty of perjury. There is indisputable proof she violated this sworn statement… thousands of times.

    2. Obstruction of Justice:
    Hillary’s thousands of perjury counts are also related to the obstruction of justice. She held back documents she didn’t want Congress to see. She subverted the Freedom of Information Act, which is a law.

    3. Bribery:
    One investigation was digging into bribery allegations against the Clinton Foundation. The FBI agents working on these cases were reportedly very angry that top Bureau and Justice Department officials were pressuring them to drop their investigations.

    For example, fired FBI official, Deputy Director Andrew McCabe's wife received an inexplicably huge political donation from Clinton bagman Terry McAuliffe, the governor of Virginia.

    4. Pay for Play:
    5. There has also been recent confirmation that the FBI has investigated influence-peddling allegations against the Clinton Foundation.

    WikiLeaks has exposed emails from Clinton insiders that openly discuss how the Foundation was part of a network that steered millions of dollars to her and Bill.

    5. Illegal Use of a Nonprofit Organization:
    There are many laws governing the management of charitable organizations, generally intended to prevent them from becoming money-laundering operations, ripoff operations, and vehicles for political influence peddling. The Clinton Foundation was used as exactly that.

    6. Racketeering:
    Former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy found that Hillary Clinton’s abuse of the State Department looks an awful lot like a “racketeering enterprise,” which could trigger the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act of 1971, more widely known as RICO.

    7. Fraud:
    Wall Street analyst Charles Ortel a case that the “Clinton Charity Network,” as he calls the complete system of Clinton operations, has committed “charity fraud of epic proportions.” In part, he refers to discrepancies between donor accounts and the Clinton Foundation’s books. Others have pointed out how the Clinton Health Access Initiative has essentially ignored New York state law for years

    In addition to getting a free pass on perjury, the Clintons are traditionally allowed to violate tax laws without penalty, eventually refiling paperwork when “errors” are discovered years after the fact.

    8. Sedition
    Hillary paid Perkins Coie, the law firm that represented the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC), that helped draft CrowdStrike to aid with the DNC’s allegedly hacked servers.

    The FBI secretly used this politically allied law firm to create a phony Russian Dossier (which even form FBI director James Comey called salacious and unverified) to acquire a FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Grond0 said:

    ThacoBell said:

    @FinneousPJ @smeagolheart Good question. Except the sperm thing, did make me laugh though.

    I addressed this earlier, and I think the most reliable way to draw a line on human life is to look at the bodies' natural process. Early on, there is a good chance that the incubation and growth of the embryo will fail. Almost 50% of successful inseminations are aborted by the body, due to the growing embryo not being viable. I think its fair, that if the fetus survives past this cut off point, then it should be considered human life.
    While I view ELECTIVE abortions as straight up murder, if one or both parties ARE goign to die, A choice HAS to be made of who to save. Doing nothing and losing both parent and child is far worse. That choice is up to the family though, and it breaks my heart that it ever happens.

    @ThacoBell the problem with this approach is that there is no specific cut-off point. Traditionally the time when it's 'safe' to announce your pregnancy has been regarded as week 12 - by which time the risk of miscarriage was expected to have gone down to 5-10%. However, for healthy women in western societies the risk of miscarriage is significantly below that. This risk calculator is based on various academic studies and suggests the risk is down to below 2% at week 12.

    The most common measures used for statistical significance are 95% and 99%. From the above table showing the risk of miscarriage 95% would equate to 8 weeks and 99% to 14 weeks. Would you choose one of those dates or something else?

    Whatever the date chosen though it will be arbitrary and it seems odd to me to go from a situation where a fetus has no human rights one day, to full human rights the next.
    I'm actually not talking about miscarriages. Those are horrible, tragic, accidents when something goes wrong. I'm talking about the viability check the human body does when the process starts. If its determined non viable, the body aborts the process.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    How did a question about Rosie ODonnell and how she allegedly did the same thing as Dinesh D’Souza (who actually pleaded guilty, admitting wrong doing from the time he got caught) have to do with regurgitatation of alleged wrong doings of Hillary Clinton?

    If you are so up in arms about Clinton’s corruption, are you in angered by Trumps own corruption and pay for play practises and his own shady charity?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018

    Good news. Trump to pardon Dinesh D'Souza. It was crazy that this guy was used as a political prisoner while Rosie ODonnel essentially did the same thing and Hillary and half the DOJ still walks free for trying to throw the election in Hillary's favor.

    Good job Trump.

    Half the Department of Justice tried to swing the election in Hillary's favor?? How was this accomplished?? How is breaking campaign finance laws on purpose and being convicted of it and sentenced to a extremely minor incarceration sentence define being a "political prisoner"??

    What Trump is doing is weaponizing the pardon power. He has now pardoned Joe Arpaio, Scooter Libby, and Dinesh D'Souza. All right-wing celebrities who committed actual crimes, who he is letting off the hook simply because they are on the right side of the aisle. Anyone can see what is going on here. He is flexing the pardon power and testing the reaction to it. NO President in modern history has issued these kind of high-profile pardons so early in their term. According to pool reports, he is also considering commuting the sentence of Rod Blagoevich and Martha Stewart. This is absolutely absurd. Those are people convicted of selling a Senate seat to the highest bidder and insider trading. It is beyond clear that he is paving the way for a pardon spree in regards to the Russia investigation. He is declaring himself a law unto himself. They were also both contestants on "The Apprentice". This is comically ridiculous. The President of the United States is going to use the immense responsibility of the pardon to help people who were on his goddamn reality show. Next he is probably going to pardon OJ for the Vegas robbery.

    And for the record, Dinesh D'Souza is a piece of shit. I could go into his history at Dartmouth where he and Laura Ingraham purposefully outed gay students for sport while in charge of the right-wing newspaper there. Or how he once called Rosa Parks "overrated" and that what she did wasn't that impressive. Or how hey thought Roy Moore's accusers should be prosecuted. Or (and this one is a real winner), how he sent out a tweet responding to a picture of Parkland students crying in the chamber when the Florida House voted down a gun control measure, he responded "Worst news since their parents told them to get summer jobs". He is a human piece of slime.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I hear lots of accusations about Clinton. The sources of the accusations are essentially always pundits and politicians rather than law enforcement officials or judges. In order to conclude that Clinton has committed a long list of crimes and yet multiple investigations have resulted in no indictments, you'd have to believe the entire law enforcement community itself was corrupt or massively incompetent... an idea which I think is primarily motivated by dislike for Clinton rather than anything else.

    Law enforcement and national security have veered conservative since at least the 1960s, back during the Cold War. I never saw GOP figures attack law enforcement (and I do mean never) until the FBI refused to put Clinton behind bars--after investigations which only started when it became clear that Clinton would become the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    I hear lots of accusations about Clinton. The sources of the accusations are essentially always pundits and politicians rather than law enforcement officials or judges. In order to conclude that Clinton has committed a long list of crimes and yet multiple investigations have resulted in no indictments, you'd have to believe the entire law enforcement community itself was corrupt or massively incompetent... an idea which I think is primarily motivated by dislike for Clinton rather than anything else.

    Law enforcement and national security have veered conservative since at least the 1960s, back during the Cold War. I never saw GOP figures attack law enforcement (and I do mean never) until the FBI refused to put Clinton behind bars--after investigations which only started when it became clear that Clinton would become the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee.

    Hillary Clinton has been under the investigative microscope on Congressional Republicans for the better part of 25 YEARS. If they had anything on her, it would have surfaced LONG before now.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    A new Harvard law school study revealed what has long been suspected. Republican-appointed federal judges are harsher to blacks.

    “Republican-appointed judges sentence black defendants to three more months than similar nonblacks and female defendants to two fewer months than similar males compared with Democratic-appointed judges,” the study found, adding, “These differences cannot be explained by other judge characteristics and grow substantially larger when judges are granted more discretion.

    The most lasting effect of the Trump regime will be its sickening packing of the courts with these radicalized racist conservative judges.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/us/politics/black-defendants-women-prison-terms-study.html

    After skimming through it, the paper does not differentiate between murder e.g. or petty crime, just the length of sentencing. Or maybe I skimmed through it too fast.

    One thing that did catch my attention was that experienced judges where more likely to dole out longer sentences than their inexperienced colleagues. Wonder why?
    How does that account for sentencing black offenders to longer sentences than non-blacks convicted of similar crimes?? 5 months longer on average. There IS no other explanation other than racial bias if the crime is the same.

    Of course, this has a LONG history in the US. The drug war was started and remains in place as nothing more than a tool to imprison as many people of color as possible. That was it's intent when it started, and it's purpose now. One only need look at the absurd historical penalty discrepancy in sentences for possessing crack vs. powder cocaine, one of which was mostly used in inner-city urban areas by people of color, the other a drug for upper-class whites. Despite being the EXACT same drug in a different form, the sentencing for crack was MASSIVELY more draconian (only just recently alleviated slightly in the Obama Administration). It would have been like a hypothetical situation in which water was illegal and possessing ice was viewed as worse than liquid in a glass.
    There is a HUGE difference between crack and powdered cocaine. Just from being around people who use both would show you. On the racist judicial system in the states, can't comment but if one crime was committed by hacking a family to bits with an axe and the other was a stabbing for a watch, I see a difference.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Crack and cocaine are equally addictive and equally unhealthy. This is because they are literally the same chemical. They have the same chemical formula and do the same thing to the brain. The only difference is the way they enter the body.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018

    Crack and cocaine are equally addictive and equally unhealthy. This is because they are literally the same chemical. They have the same chemical formula and do the same thing to the brain. The only difference is the way they enter the body.

    The only difference between them is the removal of hydrochloride, which allows for a higher melting point and the ability to be smoke. So if someone wants to argue the way the drug is INGESTED into the body as a mitigating factor for sentencing guidelines, well, that's a hell of a hill to die on.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    edited May 2018

    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called cocaine (powdered) the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it. Also, you seem to be making the case that a person who would uses crack in inherently worse than something who uses powder cocaine.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044

    What Trump is doing is weaponizing the pardon power. He has now pardoned Joe Arpaio, Scooter Libby, and Dinesh D'Souza. All right-wing celebrities who committed actual crimes, who he is letting off the hook simply because they are on the right side of the aisle. Anyone can see what is going on here. He is flexing the pardon power and testing the reaction to it. NO President in modern history has issued these kind of high-profile pardons so early in their term. According to pool reports, he is also considering commuting the sentence of Rod Blagoevich and Martha Stewart. This is absolutely absurd. Those are people convicted of selling a Senate seat to the highest bidder and insider trading. It is beyond clear that he is paving the way for a pardon spree in regards to the Russia investigation. He is declaring himself a law unto himself. They were also both contestants on "The Apprentice". This is comically ridiculous. The President of the United States is going to use the immense responsibility of the pardon to help people who were on his goddamn reality show. Next he is probably going to pardon OJ for the Vegas robbery.

    I do not disagree with your assessment but I will note that Trump's use of the pardon is, to date, perfectly legal. Presidential pardons apply only for Federal crimes (not including impeachment...but curiously this does include treason--I didn't think it would) and there are no other limitations on them other than to note that the issue is still unclear as to whether a sitting President can pardon himself. Although the text of the Constitution does not prohibit this (Article II Section 2 "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment") it would be *extremely* unethical for a President to do so. The way around this, as laid out by Nixon's Justice Department, would be for a President to declare himself unable to discharge the duties of his office, appoint the VP as acting President, let the acting President issue the pardon, then the original President resumes the duties of his office. That hasn't been an issue so far for Trump, though.

    In my opinion, there is a folder somewhere with pardon forms filled out for people who are Mueller's radar but they have blanks for the charge(s). As soon as indictments are unsealed the pardons may be issued, presuming they are Federal charges--there won't even be a trial. I think the only reason Trump hasn't pardoned Gates yet is because accepting a pardon also means an admission of guilt.

    Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,459
    ThacoBell said:

    I'm actually not talking about miscarriages. Those are horrible, tragic, accidents when something goes wrong. I'm talking about the viability check the human body does when the process starts. If its determined non viable, the body aborts the process.

    @ThacoBell I'm still not sure what you're advocating. If miscarriages are not relevant then are you suggesting that the point at which the embryo implants should determine when human rights are granted?
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    edited May 2018

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it. Also, you seem to be making the case that a person who would uses crack in inherently worse than something who uses powder cocaine.

    Bill Clinton has, in the years since leaving the Oval Office, come to regret his involvement with issuing harsh sentencing requirements for drug-related offenses. As you recall, the United States was freaking out over drug-related crime in the late 80s and early 90s and he was caught up in that emotional whirlpool.

    *************

    In other news, Illinois just ratified the Equal Rights Amendment, making it the 37th State to do so--only one more State needs to ratify it and it will become the latest Amendment to the Constitution. For the record, the ERA was passed by Congress in 1972, a mere 46 years ago; 35 States had ratified it by 1977 and then it sat in limbo until Nevada ratified it in 2017.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    edited May 2018

    I hear lots of accusations about Clinton. The sources of the accusations are essentially always pundits and politicians rather than law enforcement officials or judges. In order to conclude that Clinton has committed a long list of crimes and yet multiple investigations have resulted in no indictments, you'd have to believe the entire law enforcement community itself was corrupt or massively incompetent.

    For Clinton accusations our good friend @GaelicVigil's provided us some that are mostly accurate, and he even provided us with enough specifics to research them and verify on our own.

    She did, without a doubt, lie in her testimony and in public statements on several occasions, but surprise surprise, Comey found reason not to take action. Flynn is charged with lying to the FBI, by the way.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/proved-perjury-charges-hillary-clinton/story?id=41451995

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/06/hillary-clinton/fbi-findings-tear-holes-hillary-clintons-email-def/

    As for 2, 3, 4 bribery, pay for play, illegal use of a nonprofit organization? There are some very, very shady payments that need to be accounted for before I dismiss these particular claims. Is the kingdom of Saudi Arabia really interested in charitable works, and decide to go do that through a channel that just so happens to gain political influence?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign-charity.html

    I mean, if it were proven Trump were being paid millions by Russia through some company of his, there would be no convincing anyone here of his innocence.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it. Also, you seem to be making the case that a person who would uses crack in inherently worse than something who uses powder cocaine.

    Bill Clinton has, in the years since leaving the Oval Office, come to regret his involvement with issuing harsh sentencing requirements for drug-related offenses. As you recall, the United States was freaking out over drug-related crime in the late 80s and early 90s and he was caught up in that emotional whirlpool.
    Bill Clinton did MANY things that were not at all good to seem tough on crime to appeal to the center and right-wing voters, including going back to Arkansas to preside over an execution and his ridiculous "Sister Souljah" moment. Along with going along with Newt Gingrich on welfare reform, they are the biggest black marks on his Presidency.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    I think the biggest black mark on his presidency is NAFTA, myself.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
    Gangs fight over drug territory because of the illegality of the drug. When alcohol was banned during prohibition, organized crime and bootleggers did the EXACT same thing:

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/aug/26/lawless-prohibition-gangsters-speakeasies
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
    Gangs fight over drug territory because of the illegality of the drug. When alcohol was banned during prohibition, organized crime and bootleggers did the EXACT same thing.
    Need that study please.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
    Gangs fight over drug territory because of the illegality of the drug. When alcohol was banned during prohibition, organized crime and bootleggers did the EXACT same thing.
    Need that study please.
    http://www.nber.org/papers/w6950

    In particular, section 2.1, which explains that if a product is illegal, the disputes that rise from the sale of that product, which would usually be conducted through lawyers or courts cannot take place, thus leading to the another method of solving the problem, which is violence.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
    Gangs fight over drug territory because of the illegality of the drug. When alcohol was banned during prohibition, organized crime and bootleggers did the EXACT same thing.
    Need that study please.
    http://www.nber.org/papers/w6950

    In particular, section 2.1, which explains that if a product is illegal, the disputes that rise from the sale of that product, which would usually be conducted through lawyers or courts cannot take place, thus leading to the another method of solving the problem, which is violence.
    Please read the whole study. Please.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,459

    She did, without a doubt, lie in her testimony and in public statements on several occasions, but surprise surprise, Comey found reason not to take action.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/proved-perjury-charges-hillary-clinton/story?id=41451995

    From that story you linked it's not a surprise at all that Comey found a prosecution for perjury was not appropriate. Perjury requires not just telling a lie, but knowing your statement to be a lie. Out of the thousands reviewed he found 3 emails that were marked as classified, but none of them were shown as classified in the header (which they should have been) and the inclusion of a C in the body of the email could easily have been missed. It seems reasonable to me to conclude that a prosecution that required proving Hillary knew she was lying would stand very little chance of success.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited May 2018

    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.

    Harsh punishment does not stop crime. Locking nonviolent people up for decades around dangerous criminals will train and condition more criminals. What kind of person do you want to get out of jail, when their debt to society is over?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Certainly not for the act of using or simply being in possession of the drug, absolutely not. You know what causes more chaos in society than all of those drugs put together?? Alcohol.

    Incidentally, now that the major drug problem in the country is opioids that are mostly hitting rural and suburban white people, the calls for tolerance and treatment for drug use and possession rather than prison seems to be rising dramatically. Funny how that works.
    I would like to see the study that states Alcohol is causing more chaos in society than any of the drugs I listed. Is there a drug dealer problem with Alcohol? Do gangs fight over Alcohol. Do people kill over a mickey? Need that case study.
    Gangs fight over drug territory because of the illegality of the drug. When alcohol was banned during prohibition, organized crime and bootleggers did the EXACT same thing.
    Need that study please.
    http://www.nber.org/papers/w6950

    In particular, section 2.1, which explains that if a product is illegal, the disputes that rise from the sale of that product, which would usually be conducted through lawyers or courts cannot take place, thus leading to the another method of solving the problem, which is violence.
    Please read the whole study. Please.
    The conclusion of the study is exactly what I stated it was, as clearly laid out in the "Conclusions" portion on page 26 of the PDF.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Of course they should be disciplined. The question we have is about what happens after someone makes a bad choice.

    These people will eventually rejoin society, will they be able to fit in once they get out?

    Harsh punishment does not stop crime. Locking nonviolent people up for decades around dangerous criminals will train and condition


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Of course they should be disciplined. The question we have is about what happens after someone makes a bad choice.

    These people will eventually rejoin society, will they be able to fit in once they get out?

    Harsh punishment does not stop crime. Locking nonviolent people up for decades around dangerous criminals will train and condition more criminals. What kind of person do you want to get out of jail, when their debt to society is over?

    American criminal justice system needs reform - less focus on punishment and more on rehabilitation. more criminals. What kind of person do you want to get out of jail, when their debt to society is over?

    American criminal justice system needs reform - less focus on punishment and more on rehabilitation.
    I wish that every country took a page out of Portugal's laws on drugs. The number of people incarcerated with up to a 10 day supply went down but I want to know the numbers on the crimes committed by people who need money to sustain their habit.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Of course they should be disciplined. The question we have is about what happens after someone makes a bad choice.

    These people will eventually rejoin society, will they be able to fit in once they get out?

    Harsh punishment does not stop crime. Locking nonviolent people up for decades around dangerous criminals will train and condition


    As I stated, chemical composition theory is not the same as the feen (fiend) that uses said drug. If you put them side by side and observe. If you haven't observed then.

    There is a reason why the 80's called it the rich mans drug. Crack cocaine is devastating.

    What's more devastating is putting people in prison for decades for using it.
    You seriously believe that people that use crack, or meth or heroin or cocaine (powder) should not be disciplined for breaking the law and causing chaos in society? Drug dealers and users of course.
    Of course they should be disciplined. The question we have is about what happens after someone makes a bad choice.

    These people will eventually rejoin society, will they be able to fit in once they get out?

    Harsh punishment does not stop crime. Locking nonviolent people up for decades around dangerous criminals will train and condition more criminals. What kind of person do you want to get out of jail, when their debt to society is over?

    American criminal justice system needs reform - less focus on punishment and more on rehabilitation. more criminals. What kind of person do you want to get out of jail, when their debt to society is over?

    American criminal justice system needs reform - less focus on punishment and more on rehabilitation.
    I wish that every country took a page out of Portugal's laws on drugs. The number of people incarcerated with up to a 10 day supply went down but I want to know the numbers on the crimes committed by people who need money to sustain their habit.
    The use of the drug and theft are two different crimes. The person SHOULD be punished for the theft.
This discussion has been closed.