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Who in their right mind...?

2

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  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Not sure I'd agree you need metagaming expertise to remember to always pack a couple of protection from undead scrolls!

    That said, if metagaming is applied you can wipe kangaxx right after gb's house with 0 risk.

    Notabarbiegirl
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    That's the problem with the encounter. Either you're prepared (be it with Protection from Undead or Spell Immunity or whatever) and the battle is trivially easy, or you're not and you just die. It's pretty much binary. Not really the best encounter design in the world, that.

    [Deleted User]BelgarathMTHLemernisEmpyrial
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,793
    I remember the official guide that listed all the monsters and tactics to defeat them. Under he demilich they said they didn't know how to defeat this ultimate cheese ball and would offer anyone a job who came up with a viable strategy.

    It takes metagaming knowledge to defeat him. That doesnt mean it is easy to figure out for yourself.

    semiticgoddessNimranJuliusBorisovNotabarbiegirl
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    semiticgoddess
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,182
    There is another issue with the RP element of this that a lot of you seem to be missing. How could you actually know how strong this Kangaxx is before actually releasing him? There is no real way to know for sure if you are actually stronger than him other than to throw caution to the wind and release him. All you really know is that he is extremely dangerous as he warrants such extreme measures to keep him imprisoned as 2 very powerful lich guardians. If you had any sense you would also realize that he was most likely imprisoned because he either could not be simply destroyed or because 'destroying' him would make him even more powerful, both of which turn out to be true. Sure you may want to do the world a favor and end his existence, but you do not know what would happen if you fail and you have no idea what powers this guy may have. Releasing him is not heroic; it is incredibly stupid and foolish! I still see absolutely no reason a sane person with a lick of common sense would have for releasing this guy.

    BelgarathMTHDelvarian
  • wubblewubble Member Posts: 3,156
    Tresset said:

    There is another issue with the RP element of this that a lot of you seem to be missing. How could you actually know how strong this Kangaxx is before actually releasing him? There is no real way to know for sure if you are actually stronger than him other than to throw caution to the wind and release him. All you really know is that he is extremely dangerous as he warrants such extreme measures to keep him imprisoned as 2 very powerful lich guardians. If you had any sense you would also realize that he was most likely imprisoned because he either could not be simply destroyed or because 'destroying' him would make him even more powerful, both of which turn out to be true. Sure you may want to do the world a favor and end his existence, but you do not know what would happen if you fail and you have no idea what powers this guy may have. Releasing him is not heroic; it is incredibly stupid and foolish! I still see absolutely no reason a sane person with a lick of common sense would have for releasing this guy.

    Yeah but I really want that ring :wink:

    BelgarathMTHGandaNotabarbiegirl
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    @Tresset, I think it's less a matter of knowing you can take him, and more a matter of know you're better equipped to do so than most people. As I said before, no sealed evil stays sealed forever. Bottling it up and forgetting about it is generally a pretty terrible solution. If Charname releases Kangaxx, Charname has a decent shot at ridding the world of evil before it can become a problem. If Charname doesn't release Kangaxx, the problem occurs and some indeterminate point in the future, with no guarantee that anyone remotely Charname-level is around to deal with it.

    Notabarbiegirl
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,058
    kcwise said:

    So, basically, if you all were paladins in this world you'd go around breaking hardened criminals out of jail to kill them.

    "Sorry officer, but that bastard was glowing redder than molten steel. Had to be done. Sorry about the arm. I imagine they can reattach it if you get to the hospital. Next time, don't get in the way of a paladin and his appointed task."

    Geez, the amount of times the world has almost ended from comic book villains who have escaped from prison.

    Better to put them down I think.

    Isn't watchers keep a similar conundrum?

    kcwiseNotabarbiegirl
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,829
    Demogorgon just can't be put down forever. Killing him will just send him back to the Abyss for 100 years, and then he'll be free to wander around once that's over. Locking him up in Watcher's Keep is probably the safest way to keep him from causing trouble.

    kcwise
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    kcwise said:

    So, basically, if you all were paladins in this world you'd go around breaking hardened criminals out of jail to kill them.

    Well, it depends on the danger the criminal poses, but that's basically what executions are for. Typically one doesn't have to actually release the prisoner first, but principle holds. Given, of course, that we can't just bash Kangaxx's skull into powder with the Mace of Disruption without reassembling him first, because magic. If we could do that, then yeah, releasing him would be pretty dumb. But since that's not an option, executing the dangerous immortal criminal seems like the way to go.

    kcwiseNotabarbiegirl
  • ApocryphaApocrypha Member Posts: 104
    Well, here's a couple of possible reasons:

    1) The taint is pushing CHARNAME to seek battle. Think Vegeta from DBZ--instead of keeping a dangerous enemy locked up, or killing them while they're weak, CHARNAME would rather fight them even if doing so is stupid/risky in the long run. This is also the justification I use for killing Demogorgon instead of sealing him.

    2) CHARNAME wants the power and prestige that would come from defeating such an opponent. This works better with evil and Chaotic Neutral alignments.

    3) CHARNAME wants to rid the world of such a threat, and figures they're the best one suited to do it--if a half-god can't kill something, what can? This works better with good and Lawful Neutral alignments.

    4) CHARNAME throws themselves at so many "impossible" opponents because they're secretly suicidal. They're just too damn tough to actually die.

    kcwiseNatenGrum
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,553
    Tresset said:

    Odd that there would be such a nasty trap on the door to a house that only had a few minotaurs squatting in it (not sure where they came from).

    I always imagined that, much like the trap on the door, the minotaurs were placed there deliberately by whoever divided up Kangaxx's body in the first place, to prevent people from uncovering him and putting him back together.

    kcwise
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    Couldn't the minotaurs have just left though? Like climb out a window or something. Why hang around in an empty house? How did they get food and use the bathroom?

    kcwiseSkatan
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,848
    Delvarian said:

    Couldn't the minotaurs have just left though? Like climb out a window or something. Why hang around in an empty house? How did they get food and use the bathroom?

    I'm sure they managed it somehow.

    kcwiseNotabarbiegirl
  • abazigal5abazigal5 Member Posts: 290
    edited April 2015
    Ehm...
    Brb, hacking in my ToB party to deal with this... (jk, but really, Charname would have to be slightly insane).

    kcwise
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,553
    edited April 2015
    Delvarian said:

    Couldn't the minotaurs have just left though? Like climb out a window or something. Why hang around in an empty house? How did they get food and use the bathroom?

    I don't mean that the minotaurs were "trapped" inside the house - I mean that they were probably assigned to guard the place by whoever dispersed Kangaxx, to prevent someone from breaking in and releasing him, and that that same person also placed the trap on the door to further discourage people from breaking in (remember that Kangaxx says that one of his enemies was responsible for chopping up his body and dispersing it throughout the city).

    As far as how and where they went to the bathroom - well, they did have access to a sewer chamber right under the house, after all. ;-)

    kcwise
  • abazigal5abazigal5 Member Posts: 290
    kcwise said:

    A bigger question is, if you want to hide an evil super villain's skull why the heck did you put in a trap door in the first place? A much better option would have been to hop a ride on a Spelljammer ship and drop ol' Kangy on that planet of tarrasques. Make those crazy adventurers really WORK to put humpty dumpty back together again. They didn't even follow the conventional rules of moving the body parts to the far corners of Faerun. Probably it was a funding issue. The" Help Me Get Rid Of This Evil Lich" Kickstarter didn't reach any of its stretch goals, and the physical backer rewards ate up over half the funds, so they had to make do.

    Or maybe Larloch made them go away...

    kcwise
  • simplessimples Member Posts: 540
    yeah but possibly he'd give you an awesome quest or reward, so why not just give it a shot?

    kcwiseGanda
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287

    well, you would assume the pieces were scattered all over Faerun. You would never think you'd find them all in one place, would you?

    For some reason this reminds me of a Doctor Who quote
    Yes. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Dalek fleet, minimum twelve thousand battleships, armed to the teeth. Ah! But we've got surprise on our side. They'll never expect three people to attack twelve thousand Dalek battleships. Because we'd be killed instantly. So it would be a fairly short surprise. Forget surprise.

    DelvarianJuliusBorisovGrum
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    My favorite characters are full of wanderlust, (and usually Bitter Black Ale), and often lend credence to the term "curiosity killed the cat".

    wubblekcwiseJuliusBorisovLemernis
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Who in their right mind?

    This is the kind of anti-undead claptrap that drives me insane.

    I help Kangaxx because everyone needs a little help now and again.

    ...

    Everyone else should feel the same way.

    ...

    Also Evil is just an opinion. Stamping on a defenseless spider is considered by many as an Evil act. Yet many flies would agree that it was an act of good.

  • ReticentReticent Member Posts: 122
    edited January 2016
    From an RP perspective, If Charname in their adventures has already amassed a Scroll of Protection from Undead and any particularly potent anti-undead weaponry or magic at that point I could see the mental risk/reward looking pretty favorable- even without meta-knowledge of the 'encounter'.

    Also, there are plenty of religions or various ethos in FR that strongly encourage or demand their followers act to exterminate the undead when possible.

    Notabarbiegirl
  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    I killed Kangaxx only once. When I picked up the Ring of Gaxx and contemplated all the trouble I had going through the quest, I thought to myself "That's it?"

    They should have t-shirts. 'I killed Kangaxx and all I got was this stupid ring'.

    Would not do again.

    Okay, it's a good ring. But it's not that good.

    In terms of cost/benefit, it's not worth it.

    If you want to RP doing the world a public service by killing him, then consider this: How many people have killed him on their first try? Because if you didn't, you just released a demi-lich on Athkatla. Getting to retry is only a function of the game. In a realistic RP, you only get once chance for everything.

    From a risk perspective, you might as well leave him to rot. Ya, someone more unscrupulous might free him at some point in the future, but considering how long he's been locked up already it would seem that such skilled adventurers are extremely, extremely rare. So rare that the risk of leaving him there is far lower than trying to take him on in battle and free him if you are defeated.

    BelgarathMTH[Deleted User]
  • GandaGanda Member Posts: 35
    It seems everyone is assuming Charname is neutral or good aligned.

    An evil character would have decent logical reasons to release both Kangaxx and Demogorgon.

    The game gives you a choice to be good, neutral or evil after all.

    GoturalwubbleJuliusBorisov
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