Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

[MOD] -Might and Guile- a tweak mod and kit pack for warriors and rogues.

2456779

Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Ah ha! You've helped me identify a problem with my testing procedure. So thank you. I've updated the mod to v1.11, the links above have been updated for downloading it.

    Just FYI the Marksman doesn't always appear in the menus - it will not be there if you are playing an elf or a halfling. In those cases you would play an Elven Archer, or Slinger, respectively. Likewise, The Elven Archer doesn't coexist with the vanilla archer; it replaces it in the menu, for elves. So depending on which race you play some of these kits might not be visible. (Elves can't be Barbarian Rangers either, they're just too civilized.)

    lolien
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Moving from bug discussion (not that I want to discourage that - definitely let me know if anything goes wrong with you experience with this mod!) to mod discussion:

    I have been sort of ignoring the warrior side of this mod. On the one hand, warriors are meant to bash things, and there's only so many interesting ways to play with that. Plus, rangers and paladins are already specialized fighters, so the vanilla game has 12 warrior kits versus only 8 rogue kits. So focusing more on rogues is just evening things out.

    But here's an idea for further expansion: how about a Lycanthropic Ranger kit? Possessing a terrible gift, he can transform into a raging beast; but he is blessed by Selune and strives to support her causes. This could be implemented in two ways:

    1) A new kit. It would have my druid werewolf shapeshifts (wolf - dire wolf - werewolf - wolfwere) and would need some kind of disadvantages to offset those abilities.
    - Only light armors? Maybe share the Beastmaster usability.
    - No specialization with weapons... more comfortable fighting with claws (which advance to higher levels of mastery over time)

    2) Alternatively, just add the shapechanging abilities to the Beastmaster. This would be a radical move, but it would truly make this kit a master of beasts - including himself in that category! Does anyone ever play Beastmasters? I feel like they are perpetually underpowered, maybe this is just the thing to bring them up to par with the other warrior kits.

    What do you think?

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,367

    Moving from bug discussion (not that I want to discourage that - definitely let me know if anything goes wrong with you experience with this mod!) to mod discussion:

    I have been sort of ignoring the warrior side of this mod. On the one hand, warriors are meant to bash things, and there's only so many interesting ways to play with that. Plus, rangers and paladins are already specialized fighters, so the vanilla game has 12 warrior kits versus only 8 rogue kits. So focusing more on rogues is just evening things out.

    But here's an idea for further expansion: how about a Lycanthropic Ranger kit? Possessing a terrible gift, he can transform into a raging beast; but he is blessed by Selune and strives to support her causes. This could be implemented in two ways:

    1) A new kit. It would have my druid werewolf shapeshifts (wolf - dire wolf - werewolf - wolfwere) and would need some kind of disadvantages to offset those abilities.
    - Only light armors? Maybe share the Beastmaster usability.
    - No specialization with weapons... more comfortable fighting with claws (which advance to higher levels of mastery over time)

    2) Alternatively, just add the shapechanging abilities to the Beastmaster. This would be a radical move, but it would truly make this kit a master of beasts - including himself in that category! Does anyone ever play Beastmasters? I feel like they are perpetually underpowered, maybe this is just the thing to bring them up to par with the other warrior kits.

    What do you think?

    This reminds me, and surprisingly not in a bad way, of WoW's beastmasters. They had a cool ability duo called awaken the beast ( or something like that) and the beast within. One would buff their pet up to be super strong and one buffed themselves up to be super strong. I could definitely get behind that idea of a master of animals being animalistic himself.

  • DanarielDanariel Member Posts: 6
    Thanks for the fast update! I can confirm both issues are resolved. STO installed fine, and I created an Elven Archer with no problem. Since I was trying to create an Elf, that would explain why Marksman didn't show up. Thanks so much!

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Vallmyr said:

    This reminds me, and surprisingly not in a bad way, of WoW's beastmasters. They had a cool ability duo called awaken the beast ( or something like that) and the beast within. One would buff their pet up to be super strong and one buffed themselves up to be super strong. I could definitely get behind that idea of a master of animals being animalistic himself.

    I unwittingly created something from WoW?? Ieww, now I feel gross. :tongue:

    Okay, I'm adding wolf shapechanges to the Beastmaster:
    - one ability for wolf form, = wolf at level 1, dire wolf after level 4.
    - one ability for werewolf form, = werewolf at level 6, wolfwere at level 12, and greater wolfwere at level 18

    The dire wolf weapon is non-magical, so at high levels that form might still be useful.

    An experimental feature: due to their powerful sense of smell, all of these forms should be able to see invisible/hidden creatures. (We'll see if the way I implemented this works...)

    I have it coded up, just need to test it, if it installs okay I'll upload it by the end of the weekend.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Okay, here is v1.2 - Beastmasters can shapechange into wolf or werewolf forms, *INSTEAD* of being able to cast Find Familiar. (A "Beastmaster" with a "Fairy Dragon" was always a little weird...)

    https://github.com/subtledoctor/Might_and_Guile/releases/tag/1.2

    VallmyrsemiticgodBrer_Rabbit
  • DarkersunDarkersun Member Posts: 397
    edited September 2015
    I love that, I did give my Beastmaster Werwolf innate with EEKeeper ;)
    SO now it will not feel like cheating ^^

    Cant wait to test all together with EET.

    Is it possible to give the Beastmaster a special summon instead of the Animal Summoning? Something like the lion from "Golden Lion Figurine" that increase in power over level advancement?
    Maybe a Panther with stealth attack?

    Or maybe some other utility animals, like the Cat that can steal, a mouse to scout etc.

    Just some ideas on top of my head.

    Thanks for the great work.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    I believe @Demivrgvs is planning to do some kind of animal companion in Kit Revisions... but doing it properly is way beyond my ability and/or free time. One thing I've suggested before is that people use the "Haiass el Lobo" mod, which gives you a leveling wolf companion, and you can decide to only accept Haiass as a companion if you are a Beastmaster. (You can tell him to 'get lost!' at the beginning of the game.)

    Another thing I thought of, is that instead of the werewolf shapechange *replacing* Find Familiar, maybe Beastmasters could use FF but get a ferret or rabbit instead of a fairy dragon. A ferret seems much more appropriate, and I think they can do some thieving, right?

    Another thing I'll implement once SRv4 is out, is instead of the various vanilla Animal Summoning abilities, the Beastmaster will have a single ability that improves with level, which casts the SR Animal Summoning spells.

  • DanarielDanariel Member Posts: 6
    subtledoctor, do you know how to modify the Haiass mod so that it installs on BGEE? It doesn't recognize it as supported. Is there a line I could change in the .TP2 file or something?

  • wolpakwolpak Member Posts: 384

    Okay, here is v1.2 - Beastmasters can shapechange into wolf or werewolf forms, *INSTEAD* of being able to cast Find Familiar. (A "Beastmaster" with a "Fairy Dragon" was always a little weird...)

    https://github.com/subtledoctor/Might_and_Guile/releases/tag/1.2

    Anyone with a "Fairy Dragon" is a little weird...

  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    Unfortunately I'm unable to install the Marksman kit for some reason. Here's the debug file it said to share with you to fix it (it's in the zip folder).

    I installed a different kit to test and see if the mod was working fine and the Mage Hunter kit was able to install from the mod from what I tested, so I'm not sure what the issue is.

  • DanarielDanariel Member Posts: 6
    Found a problem with the Elven Archer - I'm unable to add more points to Bows. I can add them to everything BUT Bows, and you're supposed to be able to Grand Master in Bows with an Archer, that's the whole point. You're not supposed to be able to add more than 1 point to melee, and it seems to be flipped.

  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    I am unable to install either the Corsair or the Marksman kits on either BGEE or BG2EE. I've attached a .rar of the debug file to this post, but I'm guessing this is the relevant portion:

    ERROR Installing [310: Add the Corsair (fighter kit)], rolling back to previous state
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/310/OTHER.310]: Unix.Unix_error(1, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/310/OTHER.310")
    [might_and_guile/backup/310/UNSETSTR.310] SET_STRING uninstall info not found
    Will uninstall 30 files for [MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2] component 310.
    Uninstalled 30 files for [MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2] component 310.
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/310/READLN.310]: Unix.Unix_error(20, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/310/READLN.310")
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/310/READLN.310.TEXT]: Unix.Unix_error(20, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/310/READLN.310.TEXT")
    ERROR: Unix.Unix_error(20, "stat", "might_and_guile/fighter/corsair/d5_corsa.2da")

    ERROR Installing [320: Add the Marksman (fighter kit)], rolling back to previous state
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/320/OTHER.320]: Unix.Unix_error(1, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/320/OTHER.320")
    [might_and_guile/backup/320/UNSETSTR.320] SET_STRING uninstall info not found
    Will uninstall 34 files for [MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2] component 320.
    Uninstalled 34 files for [MIGHT_AND_GUILE/MIGHT_AND_GUILE.TP2] component 320.
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/320/READLN.320]: Unix.Unix_error(20, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/320/READLN.320")
    Unable to Unlink [might_and_guile/backup/320/READLN.320.TEXT]: Unix.Unix_error(20, "unlink", "might_and_guile/backup/320/READLN.320.TEXT")
    ERROR: Unix.Unix_error(20, "stat", "might_and_guile/fighter/marksman/d5_arslo.spl")

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited October 2015
    Thanks @Kaigen @Danariel @thelovebat for the bug reports, hopefully this fixes them:

    Here's an update to v1.3

    https://github.com/subtledoctor/Might_and_Guile/releases/tag/1.3a

    This update:
    - fixes installation of the Corsair and Marksman
    - fixes Elven Archer proficiencies
    - fixes the Monitor's casting level bonuses, in the multiclass component
    - gives daggers a +2 bonus to off-hand thac0, in the IWO
    - adds a new component for EE games: Revised Shadowdancer.

    This new component removes the Shadowdancer's "Hide in Plain Sight" ability, and transforms the "Shadowstep" ability into "Shadow Pool," which allows the Shadowdancer to cast any one of the following spells:
    - Sanctuary
    - Blur
    - Blindness
    - Shadow Door
    - Shadowstep

    There is one bug, when you look at the character record screen it will show "thief" instead of "shadowdancer" - I'll work on fixing this in the future. But functionally, it should work.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    JuliusBorisov
  • KaigenKaigen Member Posts: 1,567
    I can confirm that the Corsair and Markman kits install successfully. I rolled up a Corsair and everything seems to be working according to the description, except that I'm only seeing the AC bonus and not the bonus to THAC0. Also, if the Corsair not being able to dual-class into Thief is intended behavior (a thoroughly reasonable stance, I hasten to add), then you might want to state that explicitly in the Disadvantages section.

    subtledoctor
  • Kai50Kai50 Member Posts: 60
    Hi there is no information on the "revised shadowdancer" in the read me. I wanna install it but I have no idea what it does :P

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Really?? I swore I added it to the readme. It's component 275, right after the revised bard kits. In short, the revised Shadowdancer *removes* the 'Hide in Plain Sight' ability and expands the Shadow Step to a "Shadow Pool" ability, which lets you choose from the following effects:
    - Sanctuary
    - Blur
    - Blindness
    - Shadow Door
    - Shadowstep

    The readme is now fixed in v1.3.1:
    https://github.com/subtledoctor/Might_and_Guile/releases/tag/1.3.1

    This also adds preliminary compatibility with the Faiths & Powers sphere system, for the MnG ranger kits. Instead of the Mage Hunter getting extra wizard spells, it will simply get access to the sphere of Magic in addition to the normal ranger sphere access.

    JuliusBorisov
  • hellminionhellminion Member Posts: 2
    I just tried the Marksman kit and I have a bug. If you dual class him to a mage he can't use any mage items but can learn spells and cast them. M&Guile version 1.3.1. Only installed the Marksman kit.

    Using Dungeon-Be-Gone and Item Upgrade Mod.

    Let me know if you need more info.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189

    I just tried the Marksman kit and I have a bug. If you dual class him to a mage he can't use any mage items

    Can you be more specific so I can try to replicate the bug? Which items?

    This might be intended behavior. Have you tried making a Berserker->Mage or Kensai->Mage and gotten a different result?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Btw I have s new idea for an addition to the Weapon Proficiency Overhaul: differentiated light/medium/heavy melee weapons. It's based on @Skatan's ideas here:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/684161/#Comment_684161

    In short, some weapons in the game are clearly superior to others - flails and morning stars do 2d4 damage while maces only do d6 and hammers only do d4+1. I would balance that out by making the light weapons easier to use - basically, by giving them a thac0 bonus. For game balance, I would offset this bonus with an across-the-board thac0 penalty - essentially, change the thac0 table to start at 21 instead of 20. So a 1st-level character shouldn't try to use big heavy weapons, they should use light and simple weapons. But as you gain levels and your thac0 goes down, you might switch to the heavier weapons for their superior damage output. Heavy weapons would have a thac0 *penalty* so using a flail at level 1 would put you at thac0 22 - not advised unless you are very strong.

    This would have nice consequences for dual-wielding: wielding 2 daggers or short swords would give you a +2 thac0 advantage versus wielding 2 long swords or maces, and an overall +4 bonus versus wielding 2 bastard swords or flails.

    Remember that in the WPO, Single-Weapon Style and 2-Handed Style give thac0 bonuses. So while starting at thac0 21 is tough, you can put a point in the style and sensibly use a light weapon, and get your thac0 down to 19.

    Here's a possible list of weight designations:
    1-handed bladed weapons:
    bastard swords = heavy
    long swords = medium
    battle axe = medium
    short swords = light
    daggers = light
    1-handed blunt weapons:
    flails = heavy
    morning stars = heavy
    maces = medium
    war hammers = light
    clubs = light
    2-handed weapons:
    2-hand swords = heavy
    halberds = heavy
    spears = light
    quarterstaff = light

    3 tiers might be too complicated - it might be better to just use heavy and light. (In which case, maces would become light, and long swords and axes would become heavy.)

    Thoughts?

    JuliusBorisovSkatan
  • hellminionhellminion Member Posts: 2

    I just tried the Marksman kit and I have a bug. If you dual class him to a mage he can't use any mage items

    Can you be more specific so I can try to replicate the bug? Which items?

    This might be intended behavior. Have you tried making a Berserker->Mage or Kensai->Mage and gotten a different result?
    Ok I made in ToB a Kensai lvl 18/ mage lvl 24 and he can use staff of magi and ring of wizardry.

    Then I made, again in ToB a Marksman lvl 18 / mage lvl 24 and he CAN'T use staff of magi and ring of wizardry nor amulet of power or wizard scrolls (that's all I tried) BUT he can memorize the spells and cast them that way.

    It's like the game thinks he isn't a fighter/mage when deciding on class restrictions on items.

    I only installed the marksman kit nothing else from your mod.

    Bug #2: when selecting the marksman kit during character creation the description says under "Restrictions" in the kit description: - May only specialize (+++++) with melee weapons. Specializations is only ++ not +++++.

    Also you might consider adding the description of the Called Shots like the other vanilla kits do (berserker rage, kensai kai etc.).

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    @hellminion I just fixed both of those. The fix will be included in the next version of the mod, but I'm still working on it.

    If you want to fix this right now in your existing game, you can: get the BG2Tweaks mod, and install the "expanded dual-class options" component (which is within the "rule changes" group). That should make all items usable by fighter/mages usable by marksman->mages. (Well, technically it will make all items usable by barbarian/mages usable by you. But same difference.)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Kaigen said:

    I can confirm that the Corsair and Markman kits install successfully. I rolled up a Corsair and everything seems to be working according to the description, except that I'm only seeing the AC bonus and not the bonus to THAC0. Also, if the Corsair not being able to dual-class into Thief is intended behavior (a thoroughly reasonable stance, I hasten to add), then you might want to state that explicitly in the Disadvantages section.

    Btw I'm looking at the Corsair and I believe the thac0 bonuses were removed in favor of an APR bonus. And yes, you cannot dual to thief from corsair - just play a swashbuckler! I'll make sure these are both reflected in the kit description.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited November 2015
    Btw I'm hoping to add something new to the "Revised Stat Bonuses" component in v1.4: extra spells for high INT, just as priests get extra divine spells for high WIS.

    This will be a bit different though: it will only affect you once, at character creation. It will not be a function of how smart you are in the moment, reacting to any potion you drink or Tome you read. Rather, it will simply evaluate your intelligence at the very beginning of your career to determine your inherent, inborn ability to understand and use high-level magic.

    I think for each point of INT you have above 11, you will get an extra spell of that level. So if you manage to start out with 20 INT you would get an extra spell of every level.

    Unfortunately it's impossible to have 20 INT at character creation... :tongue: BUT this component will also now add more stat bonuses for demihumans. The max stats for each race will be:

    Elves: 19 Dex, 19 Int, 17 Str, 16 Con
    Half-elf: 19 Cha, 17 Wis
    Dwarf: 19 Con, 19 Wis, 17 Cha, 16 Dex
    Halfling: 19 Dex, 19 Cha, 17 Int, 16 Str
    Gnome: 19 Int, 19 Con, 17 Str, 16 Wis
    Half-orc: 19 Str, 17 Int, 16 Cha

    So an elf or gnome could start with 19 INT and thus get an extra spell of every level up to level 8. In this way the player can finally, almost, eventually, match Edwin's spellcasting prowess!

    Here's what I need from you guys: more ideas. This would make every stat give meaningful bonuses, except CHA. If I could do something similar with CHA (apply a bonus once, at character creation) what do you think it should be? Maybe +1 Luck at 17 CHA and +2 Luck at 19 CHA? But, I feel like Luck is a bit overused, and sort of boring. What else would be cool, and creative and interesting? Throw out some ideas, and I'll see if I can do it.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
    semiticgod
  • thelovebatthelovebat Member Posts: 218
    edited November 2015

    Btw I'm hoping to add something new to the "Revised Stat Bonuses" component in v1.4: extra spells for high INT, just as priests get extra divine spells for high WIS.

    This will be a bit different though: it will only affect you once, at character creation. It will not be a function of how smart you are in the moment, reacting to any potion you drink or Tome you read. Rather, it will simply evaluate your intelligence at the very beginning of your career to determine your inherent, inborn ability to understand and use high-level magic.

    I think for each point of INT you have above 11, you will get an extra spell of that level. So if you manage to start out with 20 INT you would get an extra spell of every level.

    Unfortunately it's impossible to have 20 INT at character creation... :tongue: BUT this component will also now add more stat bonuses for demihumans. The max stats for each race will be:

    Elves: 19 Dex, 19 Int, 17 Str, 16 Con
    Half-elf: 19 Dex, 17 Con
    Dwarf: 19 Con, 19 Wis, 17 Cha, 16 Dex
    Halfling: 19 Dex, 19 Cha, 17 Int, 16 Str
    Gnome: 19 Int, 19 Con, 17 Str, 16 Wis
    Half-orc: 19 Str, 17 Int, 16 Cha

    So an elf or gnome could start with 19 INT and thus get an extra spell of every level up to level 8. In this way the player can finally, almost, eventually, match Edwin's spellcasting prowess!

    Here's what I need from you guys: more ideas. This would make every stat give meaningful bonuses, except CHA. If I could do something similar with CHA (apply a bonus once, at character creation) what do you think it should be? Maybe +1 Luck at 17 CHA and +2 Luck at 19 CHA? But, I feel like Luck is a bit overused, and sort of boring. What else would be cool, and creative and interesting? Throw out some ideas, and I'll see if I can do it.

    Some different bonuses with how the stats are applied would certainly be a good idea with how the class selection works for the races you can be, at least without altering class restrictions for things like race from mods. Halflings can't be a Paladin, Bard, or Druid which utilize Charisma in some way. Half-Orcs get only -1 to Intelligence instead of -2 when they can't be a Mage (and at least having 18 max Charisma is good for being a party leader fighter, not so much with a -2 penalty they have now). Dwarves get decent enough bonuses to thieving skills but even more Dexterity penalties hurts the possibility of going Fighter/Thief, same Halflings and Fighter/Thief with max 16 Strength. Elves not starting with 18 Strength means you get the possibility of Elven NPCs getting more Strength than you, and preventing the use of composite longbows until getting a tome.

    There's also a mod out there for revising the Archer kit which has a -1 Constitution penalty (not the same one as your Elven Archer kit, which I forget what the penalties do), so using that with revised character stats (though both probably not designed with each other in mind), it basically means as an Elf Archer you'd have only a max 15 Constitution. Which for roleplaying isn't so bad or trying out something different, but mandatory penalties on top of more penalties just tempts me to want to use EEKeeper sometimes to get around such restrictions to make the character I have in mind. That's just me though, I guess the same could be said for almost any mod out there as not all of them have exactly the things you'd want, don't want it to seem contradictory with my other critiques.

    Maybe a special trait for Humans since they're not part of these modifications is to make the starting stat minimums a bit higher, so people can't use any of their stats as a dump stat as a Human. In exchange for not having to worry about any penalties to their character and being able to dual class. It would make some dual classing more interesting if you couldn't use stats like a dump stat to make the other ones high enough to dual class for some combinations, while still having other stats close to ideal like the physical stats. No more dumping a stat to 3 like Charisma or Wisdom to max out others more easily for a Fighter dualed to Mage for example.

    Charisma is something that I think as you advance the plot, having a high enough Charisma should provide passive bonuses to party members, or give you some innate ability like the powers you get after the dreams you have. Since altering actual parts of the story, dialogue, or plot based events would be something for a different mod and probably more cosmetic, maybe you get an innate ability at one of the dreams if you have high enough Charisma that benefits the party in combat, like rallying your party to battle. Maybe high enough Charisma gives you a few dialogue options to prevent NPCs from trying to kill each other or leave over conflicting NPC combinations, allowing you to use whoever you want in the party at once. The way Fallout 2 handled Charisma was probably the best of the Fallout games, but since Baldur's Gate games already give you a 6 character party to work with that sort of approach isn't viable (and the dialogue being much different).

    Also one thing I thought of. Would using something like EEKeeper to have say, a Gnome spellcaster with 20 Intelligence still activate the extra spell for Level 9? I mean it may be a bit overpowered especially considering the class options with being an Illusionist too, but I thought I'd ask if that were still possible.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    Well, I don't design my mod around the assumption that straight 18s is the norm and anything less is a "penalty". A dwarf with 16 Dex is still in the 90th percentile, even among humans who can reach 18 Dex. A thief with 16 Dex gets some perfectly nice bonuses to thieving skills and will be totally able to play this game very effectively. So will someone with 16 Str or 15 Con. These stats mean your elf won't have as many hp as the healthiest dwarf who ever lived... but you will still be well above average.

    As far as dump stats: this component already raise all minimums to 7, so no stat dumping for anyone anymore ! :) Yeah this component is really for role-players, not min-maxers.

    Of course Charisma should totally affect all dialogue... and in many cass so should Int and Wis. Unfortunately Bioware didn't follow Fallout's excellent example, and so a smooth bard with god-like Cha sounds and acts the same, and gets the same reactions, as a nasty necromancer with 3 Cha. Unfortunately I can't fix that...

    Maybe Cha bonses should be class-specific. Like, you might get more of the class abilities you already start with, or get better abilities.
    - Fighters might get a n ability or 'stance' that buffs allies (leadership)
    - Rangers might get an animal summoning spell, more powerful with higher Charisma
    - Paladins could Lay On Hands better
    etc.

    semiticgod
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,189
    edited November 2015
    Oo, here's an idea: since this component is for stat bonuses revisions and not just additions, I can change some things instead of add them. Specifically: saving throw bonuses.

    So here's the proposal: eliminate the CON-based shorty save bonuses, as well as the paladin save bonus. And replace them with CHA-based save bonuses. (Again, applied only once at character creation, so no exploiting stupid cheesy Rings of Influence.)

    After all CON is already so important, and I never understood why shorty saves were connected to it. Shifting them to CHA, and enabling it for everyone, would make for more fun and well-rounded ability trade-offs. (Especially if you use the Magic Resistance Overhaul - with saving throws more important than ever, suddenly CHA becomes a sort-of important stat! Yay for strategic trade-offs! Yay for role-playing!

    Here's a proposed bonus chart:
    CHA:   EFFECT:
    14 no effect
    15 +1 bonus to saves
    16 +2 bonus to saves
    17 +3 bonus to saves
    18 +1 Luck and +3 to saves
    19 +2 Luck and +3 to saves
    So this would mean if you are an elf or gnome specialist wizard who starts with 19 INT, you can be just about as effective as Edwin at spellcasting. And if you are a halfling cleric of Tymora with 19 CHA, you can be as lucky as Alora with her ridiculous rabbit's foot!

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,528
    If you can add effects for each point of a given stat, I think we should do lots of stuff with it.

    Stuff to modify:

    STR: save vs. death, extra crushing damage on critical hits (EE only)
    DEX: save vs. breath, bonus to critical hit range, movement speed
    CON: save vs. polymorph/death, chance to deflect any source of physical damage (via the Stoneskin opcode on hit)
    INT: save vs. wand/spell, casting speed, detect illusions/traps, set traps, party-wide THAC0 bonus (due to superior planning and whatnot)
    WIS: save vs. spell/wand, casting speed, AC bonus for monks
    CHA: party-wide luck and AC (like Defensive Harmony plus a bard song)

    Also, if you're giving unique abilities to fighters and such (like Called Shot), you could grant extra uses per day based on ability scores. An extra one casting of Barbarian Rage per day for a high CON score, for example.

    Cahir
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,039
    @semiticgod's ideas seems quite interesting. If each stat would give bonuses to different saves, all will be important and not one will be worthless. Charisma is indeed hard to deal with, but IMO Luck bonus is the way to go. I don't like AC bonus, though - seems odd to me.

    semiticgod
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,720
    Sorcerers should also get some benefit from high Cha, bonus spells, perhaps.

    semiticgod
Sign In or Register to comment.