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Elder Scrolls : The dumbing down

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Comments

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861

    The gameplay was also much more streamlined, without Morrowind's weird luck-based combat and magic system.

    Honestly, this is my single most hated thing about Morrowind, yea, yea I know it got better the more you leveled the skill but it still made no sense that I should miss a spell or arrow at point blank range!
    It's interesting to get the other perspective, as I personally really like there is this feature myself, always in any case raising my luck with each level up.

    I doubt any play-through of Morrowind could be identical for sheer scale of it, but this adds even more variation.

    I would suggest thinking of real life example of someone not used to being on television participating in a game show, or being interviewed on a live television for news report: by stress of the circumstances, people may freeze in those situations. Established TV talkshow hosts would not, because they have practiced a lot. Still: minus developmental handicap, we all can talk, right?

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    edited November 2016




    You reminded me of this.

    Cruelty is thy name, ShapiroKeats! Oh, I'd never - not even to summon Dark Brotherhood free of guilt... :-p

    I might have once or twice watched "x or y number of ways to kill the Adoring Fan" thou - and one involving a volley of arrows that was a marvel of ballistics! I am not that murderous in-games, but even I was raked with envy... (will try to find it)


    Even if I remain total Morrowind fancier, I must say, come think of it: Adoring Fan and Cicero coming together, would totally pay Bethesda hard cash to see that!


    Edit: spelling.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • IgnatiusReillyIgnatiusReilly Member Posts: 28

    As long as future titles stay as moddable as they are now, it's not much of a concern. Fans usually find a way to bend Bethesda's shortcomings and satisfy their own needs with the help of the Creation Kit.

    But it would be indeed nice if they'd return to their roots when TES:6 gets released in 2019. Like including SPEARS, which were dearly missed since Oblivion. Or a return of the MEDIUM ARMOR category. Or having permanent Birthsigns instead of switch-able Standing Stones. Or a return of major and minor skills of (custom) classes. Or the creation of your own spells ingame. Or, or, or.

    Also, Daggerfall for life!

    As much as I'd like to see this, I think we both know it isn't going to happen.

    Skyrim was, in terms of sales, the most successful Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda will take this a signal that the way forward is even further simplification of gameplay mechanics. It would not surprise me in the slightest, for instance, if Bethseda decided to eliminate skills altogether and have the player character be good at everything.

    This is hands down the dumbest thing I've read, I'm sorry I didn't want to insult but no they wouldn't. The whole purpose of adding perks to skyrim was to actually add another layer to the skill system of the TES system and allow players to specialize anymore compared to past games where you could literally max out EVERYTHING and make the character good at everything

    Too bad the perk system is completely shallow and redudant, and shows that Bethesda doesn't understand what the purpose of perks are.

    A large percentage of perks in Skyrim are simple statistical bonuses: "One-handed attacks do 20% more damage." "Blocking is 25% more effective." "Destruction spells cost 50% less magicka to cast." In general, they simply make your character do more damage, or make certain tasks a bit easier. Levelling up the skill already does this, so most of these perks are redudant and unexciting.

    Other perks are just useless. Nearly all the Speechcraft perks are about getting more gold, which is totally pointless since your pockets will be overflowing with septims without putting a single point into this particular skill tree. Lockpicking is equally useless, because lockpicks are so plentiful, and I was able to pick even the hardest locks without putting a single point into lockpicking. Pickpocketing perks are useless, too, because almost no NPC has anything worth stealing.

    Like every new feature in Skyrim ("Dragons! Dragon shouts! Marriage! Radiant Quests!"), it's a shallow, half-assed addition that does little to offset the wide-scale removal of RPG mechanics.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,287
    TStael said:




    You reminded me of this.

    Cruelty is thy name, ShapiroKeats! Oh, I'd never - not even to summon Dark Brotherhood free of guilt... :-p

    I might have once or twice watched "x or y number of ways to kill the Adoring Fan" thou - and one involving a volley of arrows that was a marvel of ballistics! I am not that murderous in-games, but even I was raked with envy... (will try to find it)


    Even if I remain total Morrowind fancier, I must say, come think of it: Adoring Fan and Cicero coming together, would totally pay Bethesda hard cash to see that!


    Edit: spelling.
    Adoring fan videos were a gem of early Youtube.

    TStael
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861

    Those waifus pictures gave me Diabeetus.

    The pun on Diabeetus I get without getting "waifus" - but can someone please spell out to me the definition of "waifus"?

    (I think one can easily be too embarassed to admit we don't know the lingo, like I do now, a bit - but less than of the notion that one could not ask)

  • IgnatiusReillyIgnatiusReilly Member Posts: 28
    TStael said:

    Those waifus pictures gave me Diabeetus.

    The pun on Diabeetus I get without getting "waifus" - but can someone please spell out to me the definition of "waifus"?

    (I think one can easily be too embarassed to admit we don't know the lingo, like I do now, a bit - but less than of the notion that one could not ask)
    It's "wife" pronounced with a stereotypical Japanese accent. It's what anime fans use to describe a character they are really, really attracted to, to the point where they are treated like a significant other.

    Of course, hardcore anime fans being what they are, these "waifus" are usually wholly prepubescent in appearance.

    semiticgodTStaelShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861



    Too bad the perk system is completely shallow and redudant, and shows that Bethesda doesn't understand what the purpose of perks are.

    A large percentage of perks in Skyrim are simple statistical bonuses: "One-handed attacks do 20% more damage." "Blocking is 25% more effective." "Destruction spells cost 50% less magicka to cast." In general, they simply make your character do more damage, or make certain tasks a bit easier. Levelling up the skill already does this, so most of these perks are redudant and unexciting.

    Other perks are just useless. Nearly all the Speechcraft perks are about getting more gold, which is totally pointless "...". Lockpicking is equally useless, because lockpicks are so plentiful, "..."

    Like every new feature in Skyrim ("Dragons! Dragon shouts! Marriage! Radiant Quests!"), it's a shallow, half-assed addition that does little to offset the wide-scale removal of RPG mechanics.

    I felt I had to like your post on merit of strenght and honesty of your opinion - even if I do not agree with you fully.

    I think you feel about Skyrim like I felt about Dragon Age Inquisition, me being a total Dragon Age 2 fancier: seemingly irreversible step away what was a deeply felt immersion, and excellent design. (NB: I resist saying "step back." If Skyrim followed Morrowind, I might feel as you - but there was Oblivion to deliver that blow, in part, at least.


    I would prefer Morrowind skills / attributes system, but I do not think the perks of Skyrim are so dismal, in context of adopting perk system overall.

    In view that there are skills I want to pay for, rather than use painfully to learn - level 55 and counting in my current Nord Playthrough - I am not swimming in gold, and being able to sell all of my wares to anyone or raise my gold return is useful.

    And as to lockpicking, I ached for the skill that sets you in a narrow band of the actual sweet spot - and paid out all that gold to train it up as soon as possible - because even as lockpicks were not hard to come by, I did not enjoy the actual lockpicking. A skill that made that briefer was brilliant, if lockpicking had to be as it was.


    The dragons I do feel spammed with - but if you feel no impulse to loot them, like you I think, it is ok with ranged companion. I stroppily improve my restroration, as Marcurio zaps them away until I can do melee. (dislike imposed archery) But then I loot which is quite annoying in view of the weight. But hey - I had that sell to everyone perk, yea! ;-)

    Amiably playful there - i am largely with ya on dragons. You must have also hated Oblivion Gates?

  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861



    It's "wife" pronounced with a stereotypical Japanese accent. It's what anime fans use to describe a character they are really, really attracted to, to the point where they are treated like a significant other.

    Of course, hardcore anime fans being what they are, these "waifus" are usually wholly prepubescent in appearance.

    I thank you for spelling it out for me - even if this actually seems a bit sad concept to me.

    It stereotypes, makes fun of people not perfectly speaking English, and assumes object of desire is by default female - and since this "waifu" concept assumes obsessive fixation unto a digital char, it probably makes fun of human loneliness too.

    Not that all waifu fixated maybe should have human relations, as such, if digital perfection trumps human experience for them.


    I am not a Cullenite meself, but love Cullenites so hard right now! :love:

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,279
    edited November 2016
    TStael said:

    The gameplay was also much more streamlined, without Morrowind's weird luck-based combat and magic system.

    Honestly, this is my single most hated thing about Morrowind, yea, yea I know it got better the more you leveled the skill but it still made no sense that I should miss a spell or arrow at point blank range!
    I would suggest thinking of real life example of someone not used to being on television participating in a game show, or being interviewed on a live television for news report: by stress of the circumstances, people may freeze in those situations. Established TV talkshow hosts would not, because they have practiced a lot. Still: minus developmental handicap, we all can talk, right?
    Ok, let me give you an example,

    A guy picks up a gun and places directly to your forehead, the barrel of the gun and the skin of your forehead are making face contact (basically touching for those who don't know 3-d modelling terms) at this point and the one that is holding the gun is a novice marksman pulling the trigger, do you really believe there is anything less than divine intervention that will cause that bullet not to splatter your brains across the wall?

    There is this thing called suspension of disbelief and Morrowind's dice roll based combat system broke that for me. I loved the game, definitely one of the best world designs I've seen in the TES series. I own both it and the game of the year edition on Xbox. Like I side before all the TES games have a give and take and Morrowind is no different.

    As long as future titles stay as moddable as they are now, it's not much of a concern. Fans usually find a way to bend Bethesda's shortcomings and satisfy their own needs with the help of the Creation Kit.

    But it would be indeed nice if they'd return to their roots when TES:6 gets released in 2019. Like including SPEARS, which were dearly missed since Oblivion. Or a return of the MEDIUM ARMOR category. Or having permanent Birthsigns instead of switch-able Standing Stones. Or a return of major and minor skills of (custom) classes. Or the creation of your own spells ingame. Or, or, or.

    Also, Daggerfall for life!

    As much as I'd like to see this, I think we both know it isn't going to happen.

    Skyrim was, in terms of sales, the most successful Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda will take this a signal that the way forward is even further simplification of gameplay mechanics. It would not surprise me in the slightest, for instance, if Bethseda decided to eliminate skills altogether and have the player character be good at everything.

    This is hands down the dumbest thing I've read, I'm sorry I didn't want to insult but no they wouldn't. The whole purpose of adding perks to skyrim was to actually add another layer to the skill system of the TES system and allow players to specialize anymore compared to past games where you could literally max out EVERYTHING and make the character good at everything

    Too bad the perk system is completely shallow and redudant, and shows that Bethesda doesn't understand what the purpose of perks are.

    A large percentage of perks in Skyrim are simple statistical bonuses: "One-handed attacks do 20% more damage." "Blocking is 25% more effective." "Destruction spells cost 50% less magicka to cast." In general, they simply make your character do more damage, or make certain tasks a bit easier. Levelling up the skill already does this, so most of these perks are redudant and unexciting.

    Other perks are just useless. Nearly all the Speechcraft perks are about getting more gold, which is totally pointless since your pockets will be overflowing with septims without putting a single point into this particular skill tree. Lockpicking is equally useless, because lockpicks are so plentiful, and I was able to pick even the hardest locks without putting a single point into lockpicking. Pickpocketing perks are useless, too, because almost no NPC has anything worth stealing.

    Like every new feature in Skyrim ("Dragons! Dragon shouts! Marriage! Radiant Quests!"), it's a shallow, half-assed addition that does little to offset the wide-scale removal of RPG mechanics.
    I don't remember saying it was perfect, but no matter how you like to hate it, it still allowed players to specialise instead of just maxing out every single thing like we could do in every past game. Yea it could've done more but the incentive was still there not to do everything.

    Don't get me started on dragons and dragon souls, Skyrim pissed me off with a passion!
    TStael said:



    Too bad the perk system is completely shallow and redudant, and shows that Bethesda doesn't understand what the purpose of perks are.

    A large percentage of perks in Skyrim are simple statistical bonuses: "One-handed attacks do 20% more damage." "Blocking is 25% more effective." "Destruction spells cost 50% less magicka to cast." In general, they simply make your character do more damage, or make certain tasks a bit easier. Levelling up the skill already does this, so most of these perks are redudant and unexciting.

    Other perks are just useless. Nearly all the Speechcraft perks are about getting more gold, which is totally pointless "...". Lockpicking is equally useless, because lockpicks are so plentiful, "..."

    Like every new feature in Skyrim ("Dragons! Dragon shouts! Marriage! Radiant Quests!"), it's a shallow, half-assed addition that does little to offset the wide-scale removal of RPG mechanics.


    Amiably playful there - i am largely with ya on dragons. You must have also hated Oblivion Gates?
    The oblivion gate crisis I would say was done right! There was one major difference between the two, one was a massive invading army taking every chance it could to get soldiers across the veil, the other was the resurrection of an endangered race and the one who was resurrected them himself wasn't really ever at full power himself and seem to be doing it one at a time. They shouldn't have been appearing as fast as they did, hell I would've rather had them like mini bosses, each with versus power level and unique thu'ums on top of all the "basic thu'ums" I would expect every dragon to know.

    I was annoyed that they didn't give Alduin EVERY thu'um .

  • SkatanSkatan Member Posts: 3,540
    Oh gawd.. why do all of these youtubers make the same thing/error/mistake; creating 30+ minutes long videos when they could easily made their point across in a third of that. Or is that the meta-point they are making that if you can't even have the patience to watch their dreadfully long and boring videos I have become one of the 'casual players' which all the dumbing down is due to?

  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,326
    Skatan said:

    Oh gawd.. why do all of these youtubers make the same thing/error/mistake; creating 30+ minutes long videos when they could easily made their point across in a third of that. Or is that the meta-point they are making that if you can't even have the patience to watch their dreadfully long and boring videos I have become one of the 'casual players' which all the dumbing down is due to?

    It's because of monetization. Youtubers make more money the longer the content is. Like if it's less than 10 mins they get cut down a lot.

    Also I hated Morrowind's dice roll at first but then I realized the physical animations were abstract and attacks that don't hit either missed or didn't pierce the armor.

    Skatan
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 784
    edited November 2016
    Morrowind is a game that emphasizes character skill over player skill. It doesn't matter how you aim or how fast you click, if your character sucks then you'll die and that's all. For PC players coming from Daggerfall or the Might and Magic series it was a understood convention but newer players or those who discovered the game on Xbox had little experience with this (or even none at all) so it made no sense to them.

    In Skyrim Bethesda is kind of wishy washy about the design. Part of the combat is about character skill but so many parameters have been gutted it all seems barebones (pick boring %damage increase perks, grind Smithing to create killswords...). The other part is about player skill, which pose a couple problems:
    - Skyrim uses hitscan for detection instead of hitboxes. It's very imprecise and doesn't differentiate between the animations used for the blow.
    - Because of the part about character skill, even if you're really good at blocking/dodging/power attacking, if you don't have the numbers you'll still have a bad time.

    In short they really should have picked one or the other. As far as mods go, the majority opt to further emphasize action -- player skill (Combat Evolved, Duel, Action Combat, and now Vigor and Wildcat). These mods are of varying quality but they're all very popular which says a lot about what the target audience actually wants.

    If you're like me and prefer character skill over twitch gameplay, your choice is limited. On top of my head there's only Requiem and YASH. Both are rather niche, even if Requiem's fanatical cultists can make it seem more popular than it is.

  • Lezard_ValethLezard_Valeth Member Posts: 70
    For me, Oblivion was Bethesda's last great Elder Scrolls game, and it was also my first. I played Morrowind after Oblivion and liked it a lot as well, but there's something about Oblivion's aethestic, quests, graphics, and general mood that feels better than both Morrowind and Skyrim. It also had a somewhat complex leveling system compared to Skyrim, which made a variety of different builds possible. At the begining of Oblivion you can make your own class, with a description and variety of Major and Minor skills. Skyrim doesn't have anything like that, which makes it feel less like an RPG. Also. Skyrim's "three stat" system was truly a dumbing down, especially for a Western RPG. It felt like Skyrim went more toward the "Action Game" genre more so than RPG genre and for that reason I will recommend Oblivion over Skyrim every time, especially for people who want an immersive RPG experience.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,462
    In regards to Morrowind, the single most hated aspect of that game for me was (and still is) its jarring character animations. It's as if every single NPC has mastered the Robo Dance. Ugh! Hopefully people start to add new, more fluent animations now that OpenMW supports such advanced custominations with its rewritten game engine. One can always hope...

    As for Oblivion... I never could get into it. Never did I cared about a race less then the Imperials. Nor do I like the province of Cyrodiil as a whole. After coming from the exotic and enigmatic place known as Vvardenfell, it just felt so generic in it entirety. If not for the Most is Endless Jungle and Tales From Elsweyr Anequina, I probably would have stopped playing this title altogether. It's all about ambiente when Argonians are adventuring!

    Finally, I'm probably one of the minority which does not like difficult increasing mods in Skyrim. Tried to like Requiem for its implementation of roleplaying aspects and fluff, but abhorred its nightmarish fighting nature. I enjoy to play Skyrim as commoner, blacksmith, hunter, or merchant. Not as dragon-butt kicking adventurer with two feet in the grave. That's why I love open world RPG's though, since it allows me to roleplay such playthroughs so well. Especially with mods installed.

    That being said, one of my biggest pet peeves of Skyrim was recently finally fixed! I hated how every race and sex has the same size ingame. The idea of Altmer and Bosmer having the same clothing size felt really immersive breaking for a long time Morrowind player like me. That's why I *love* Racial Body Morphs so much. It's just a cosmetic change, but one that matters so much for loremongerers!

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,177
    Vallmyr said:

    Skatan said:

    Oh gawd.. why do all of these youtubers make the same thing/error/mistake; creating 30+ minutes long videos when they could easily made their point across in a third of that. Or is that the meta-point they are making that if you can't even have the patience to watch their dreadfully long and boring videos I have become one of the 'casual players' which all the dumbing down is due to?

    It's because of monetization. Youtubers make more money the longer the content is. Like if it's less than 10 mins they get cut down a lot.

    Also I hated Morrowind's dice roll at first but then I realized the physical animations were abstract and attacks that don't hit either missed or didn't pierce the armor.
    i prefer discussion videos be longer as it feels like they got all thier points across an did not have to feel rushed.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,287
    I might try Morrowind someday.

  • IgnatiusReillyIgnatiusReilly Member Posts: 28

    I might try Morrowind someday.

    While it's a good game, I won't pretend that it doesn't have some serious flaws:
    • The dice-rolling combat system, as others have pointed out, is a bit of a poor fit for a first-person, real-time RPG. Not only can you miss due a dice roll, you can also miss simply because your aim was off (this is especially noticeable with ranged weapons). And there's no visual feedback for missing, either, so you end up with a frustrating situation where your character is flailing at a mudcrab and all his attacks are just passing through it like it wasn't there.

    • The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMageLezard_Valethsemiticgod
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 784
    edited November 2016

    The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.
    It's not that much of a problem in Morrowind as it is in Oblivion though, because Morrowind's world is almost fully delevelled. Sure a few kagoutis might be replaced by atronachs but encounters are a lot more spaced out compared to future games, well except for cliff racers I suppose. Certain enemies in the expansions have a script to boost stats when you're high level but all around you don't risk running into a bunch of bandits in Daedric armor every 10 minutes just because you levelled Speechcraft.

    That being said, it's still a pretty crap system.

    semiticgod
  • IgnatiusReillyIgnatiusReilly Member Posts: 28
    Kurona said:

    The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.
    It's not that much of a problem in Morrowind as it is in Oblivion though, because Morrowind's world is almost fully delevelled. Sure a few kagoutis might be replaced by atronachs but encounters are a lot more spaced out compared to future games, well except for cliff racers I suppose. Certain enemies in the expansions have a script to boost stats when you're high level but all around you don't risk running into a bunch of bandits in Daedric armor every 10 minutes just because you levelled Speechcraft.

    That being said, it's still a pretty crap system.
    Yes, the levelling system in Oblivion is so terrible I'm completely baffled as to how Bethesda could have possibility thought that it was a good idea. You'd expect that levelling-up would make your character stronger, but unless you play the game in a totally unintuitive manner (the "Major Skills as Minor" method of character development) you'll actually end up getting compartively weaker with every level!

    Kuronasemiticgod
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,279

    Kurona said:

    The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.
    It's not that much of a problem in Morrowind as it is in Oblivion, though, because Morrowind's world is almost fully levelled. Sure a few kagoutis might be replaced by atronachs but encounters are a lot more spaced out compared to future games, well except for cliff racers I suppose. Certain enemies in the expansions have a script to boost stats when you're high level but all around you don't risk running into a bunch of bandits in Daedric armor every 10 minutes just because you levelled Speechcraft.

    That being said, it's still a pretty crap system.
    Yes, the levelling system in Oblivion is so terrible I'm completely baffled as to how Bethesda could have possibility thought that it was a good idea. You'd expect that levelling-up would make your character stronger, but unless you play the game in a totally unintuitive manner (the "Major Skills as Minor" method of character development) you'll actually end up getting compartively weaker with every level!
    Kurona said:

    The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.
    It's not that much of a problem in Morrowind as it is in Oblivion though, because Morrowind's world is almost fully delevelled. Sure a few kagoutis might be replaced by atronachs but encounters are a lot more spaced out compared to future games, well except for cliff racers I suppose. Certain enemies in the expansions have a script to boost stats when you're high level but all around you don't risk running into a bunch of bandits in Daedric armor every 10 minutes just because you levelled Speechcraft.

    That being said, it's still a pretty crap system.
    I loved the leveling of the world in oblivion though, you're talking to someone who played a shit ton of mmorpg, the fact that oblivion's world leveled with you was a big breath of fresh air for me.

    I might try Morrowind someday.

    Don't let anything said here manipulate your thoughts on the game; I'm pretty sure we all agree that Morrowind was in fact amazing game to play. I still have my xbox and if i wasn't so lazy, i'd use the adaptor to play it on my laptop. But i am lazy.. that and the time I have to jump into massive games isn't the same as it use to be.
    Kurona said:

    Morrowind is a game that emphasizes character skill over player skill. It doesn't matter how you aim or how fast you click, if your character sucks then you'll die and that's all. For PC players coming from Daggerfall or the Might and Magic series it was a understood convention but newer players or those who discovered the game on Xbox had little experience with this (or even none at all) so it made no sense to them.

    Coming from a TBS player, I understood this perfectly, here is my problem with that, though... I would expect that in a TBS, an RTS, or a Real-time with pause. The problem here is Morrowind was/is depicted as an action roleplaying game.Pople can blame the "dumbing down" on the "casuals" as much as you want but the game was meant to fit into the action role-playing genre.

    Also... fuck requiem... I wanted to love that mod, really I do, but when I have to go into the game and edit follower mods to make them fit and have to constantly do this since the world has been completely deleved and nothing levels anymore... yea no...

    Ok, I'm being too harsh, the team worked hard on Requiem and it was really impressive, but he clashed with so many other quest mods which are my personal favorite I might add, and companion mods (I mean good ones like cerwiden not the generic crap that you always see).

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,739

    I might try Morrowind someday.

    While it's a good game, I won't pretend that it doesn't have some serious flaws:

    The levelling system forces you to grind skills you have no intention of using simply to get the 5X attribute bonus at level-up. I usually ended up raising my Spear skill quite high, even if I never used spears, simply to get that 5X bonus to Endurance. It's just completely counter-intuitive.
    I just used a leveling mod that gave x5 attribute bonuses for one point of level up. I got so fixated on minimaxing my attributes that I just went ahead and changed the game so I didn't have to do that anymore.

    There was another mod I used after that, which raised your attributes incrementally as you raised your skills, but I forget what it was called.

    semiticgod
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 784
    @DragonKing Yeah, not fond of Requiem either. I just mentioned it as one of the rare mods trying to take player skill out of the picture.

    In general, big overhauls are more trouble than they're worth imo.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,279
    @Kurona
    I don't know perkus maximus and the ter (I think it is called) are pretty good massive overhauls and take into account outside mods.

    But no matter what for me as long as TES remains moddable, I'll continue to support it as one of my favorite games.

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,287
    Is the graphic overhaul for Morrowind any good?

  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,462

    Is the graphic overhaul for Morrowind any good?

    Yes.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,326
    I'm using MGSO currently and enjoying it. Frames per second is spotty but that's just because of how old Morrowind's engine is I believe.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMageJuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 4,462
    edited November 2016
    MGSO is indeed an easy to use mod collection package that enhances Morrowind with overhauled graphics quite nicely thanks to MGE. It has pretty much everything one needs in that aspect, making it ideal for newcomers. Downside is that the latest version is already four years old and I'm not sure if it ever will receive updates in the future. More advanced Morrowind players may be better off enhancing their own game with the help of the Morrowind S.T.E.P. guide.

    But personally I prefer Morrowind Rebirth in combination with OpenMW, given that the new engine makes it play more smoothly than original Morrowind ever did. And with much less bugs to boot. One has just to keep in mind that OpenMW and MGSO (or more precisely its included MGE) are not compatible with each other due to the engine differences. On the plus side, it fully supports normal maps, parralax maps and specular maps textures such as Lysol90's retextures.

    But either way one chooses to enhance their Morrowind, Tamriel Rebuild with its high definition version is a must-have. No questions asked.

    ShapiroKeatsDarkMageVallmyrKuronaJuliusBorisov
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 784
    OpenMW is great, even in its pre 1.0 state.

    KamigoroshiJuliusBorisovShapiroKeatsDarkMage
  • terzaerianterzaerian Member Posts: 231

    As long as future titles stay as moddable as they are now, it's not much of a concern. Fans usually find a way to bend Bethesda's shortcomings and satisfy their own needs with the help of the Creation Kit.

    But it would be indeed nice if they'd return to their roots when TES:6 gets released in 2019. Like including SPEARS, which were dearly missed since Oblivion. Or a return of the MEDIUM ARMOR category. Or having permanent Birthsigns instead of switch-able Standing Stones. Or a return of major and minor skills of (custom) classes. Or the creation of your own spells ingame. Or, or, or.

    Also, Daggerfall for life!

    As much as I'd like to see this, I think we both know it isn't going to happen.

    Skyrim was, in terms of sales, the most successful Elder Scrolls game. Bethesda will take this a signal that the way forward is even further simplification of gameplay mechanics. It would not surprise me in the slightest, for instance, if Bethseda decided to eliminate skills altogether and have the player character be good at everything.

    This is hands down the dumbest thing I've read, I'm sorry I didn't want to insult but no they wouldn't. The whole purpose of adding perks to skyrim was to actually add another layer to the skill system of the TES system and allow players to specialize anymore compared to past games where you could literally max out EVERYTHING and make the character good at everything

    Too bad the perk system is completely shallow and redudant, and shows that Bethesda doesn't understand what the purpose of perks are.

    A large percentage of perks in Skyrim are simple statistical bonuses: "One-handed attacks do 20% more damage." "Blocking is 25% more effective." "Destruction spells cost 50% less magicka to cast." In general, they simply make your character do more damage, or make certain tasks a bit easier. Levelling up the skill already does this, so most of these perks are redudant and unexciting.

    Other perks are just useless. Nearly all the Speechcraft perks are about getting more gold, which is totally pointless since your pockets will be overflowing with septims without putting a single point into this particular skill tree. Lockpicking is equally useless, because lockpicks are so plentiful, and I was able to pick even the hardest locks without putting a single point into lockpicking. Pickpocketing perks are useless, too, because almost no NPC has anything worth stealing.

    Like every new feature in Skyrim ("Dragons! Dragon shouts! Marriage! Radiant Quests!"), it's a shallow, half-assed addition that does little to offset the wide-scale removal of RPG mechanics.
    I take it you haven't tried to mod Skyrim, then. You really don't appreciate how incredibly complex adding "half-assed" features like radiant quests are until you've tried it yourself.

    As for your complaint about perks, there are baskets of mods augmenting them. Off the top of my head, SPERG and Requiem both make alterations and additions to the tree that make them more interesting.

  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,287
    Radiant quests aren't half-assed!?

This discussion has been closed.