That is true in theory, but in practicality it leaves out the part where too many people don't see art as a craft that takes years and decades of practice, but as a hobby. When someone starts complaining about minimum wage being "too expensive" it's a huge blow against the artist. It happens constantly. I just know too many artists who seriously suffer from this mentality as to not call it out for being the problem that it is.
So, Thales was wrong that everything is water? Maybe the argument holds fire, then, as Heraclitus would say? Or mayhap some other magical uniform substance that transcends all? The hell do I know
It may be that, like you said, income in different countries is different. Makes sense. I can further say that you could find people within your country such that 'live well' in spite of having income with a less impressive number of digits than this amount commonly seen as prerequisite to 'living well', as well as those who 'live well' with no income at all, and even those who struggle with 'living well' in spite of holding assets worth billions upon billions of euros. The universe can sometimes be fun like that.
Also, I can make a BG2 style portrait for you if you want one, @Buttercheese.
So... @Buttercheese how much for a gnome, mummified, holding a quill, with only his teeth showing (a skulls grinning rictus of course!), in a wizards robe... (All other stuff such as colour, what I'm holding in my other hand, the background, hooded, unhooded, glowing eyes, eyepatch or whatever I would leave to your digression...)
And I would need a message as well... I am Anduin? Lich happens? Undead and unjustified? I am your frenemy? I got 99 problems bit a Lich ain't one? Mwhahaha!? You'll never take me alive, I'm already dead!? (I'll need to think on this...)
I would pay £30 plus postage and packaging to put it on a shirt... You do this already, yeah?
...
I would also like a signed photo to go with it... You know... To take to the antiques roadshow in a 100 years.
I did my maths on google and 200 DEM would be £85.50 in sterling.
It's not too far away from what I thought. It will only take a quick change in the exchange rate for me to be in a position of becoming an art benifactor. ...
However, for this I would expect a suggestive wink on my signed photo. And you would need to wear the hat... You know the one @Buttercheese ...
Different artists handle things differently, but I can tell you how I usually handle commission.
First of all, there is a lot of talking. Trying to find out what the commissioner wants and what he actually needs. During this stage we talk about the details of the artwork, what it's for, a rough price estimate, legal use, etc. Once we have come to an agreement, I start putting up some veeeeeeeery rough sketches that give the commissioner an idea for the composition.
Once they is happy with the composition, it comes to payment. Depending on the price range, they either pay full price up front or half of it now, half after completion. Once I got my money, I start the real work.
With every step I complete, I check back with the client to see if he needs anything changed before I proceed to make sure the artwork comes as close to their vision as possible (though people usually leave me a lot of artistic freedom, which is awesome and makes everything a lot easier for me). That goes on and on until it the piece is finished.
I check back with the commissioner one more time, show them a last WIP. If they payed full up front and are satisfied with my artwork, I send them the full resolution version of the image. If they only payed half, they will get the full size piece after they payed the rest. (Please note that up to this point all WIPs are low-res and contain a watermark, to make sure I am not getting scammed :V)
And that usually summs it up. It can happen that I fall into artblock during work or can't finish the artwork for some other reason, in which case I have to cancel the project and will send the money back asap.
________________________________________
Some general advice for commissioners:
- Try to be as clear as possible when explaining what you want and what you want it for. The artist can't look into your head, so if something doesn't fit your desires in the finished artwork but you didn't say anything during the planing phase and project, it's your fault, not the artist's.
- When paying via paypal, never send the artist the money directly. The artist has to send you and invoice, otherwise they might get in serious legal trouble with paypal which can lead to their account being closed!
- Don't expect anything skill- or style-wise that you can't also find in the artist's portfolio. If you want a portrait painting, commission a portrait artist.
- If you have questions or something isn't clear, always ask! Like I said, artists can't look into your head
- Sometimes a piece won't meet your expectations no matter what. That happens. But unless the piece doesn't meet the standards that have been previously made clear (i.e. "I want the artwork to look like this one piece from your portfolio"), you can't ask for your money back. However, if the artist did indeed just halfass it, then you got all the rights to ask for a refund. That's why it's important to talk everything through beforehand.
- This part may sound weird to some, but unless you have been friends with the artist beforehand, try to be professional please. Don't act like they are your friend, don't hit on them and most importantly don't ask them uncomfortable questions like "how long exactly is your hair" or stalk them on Steam
You usually get a step by step progress report that you can request changes to.
First would be picture used and sizing. With the artist cropping to the dimensions.
Next would be a line draw or a sketch which adds in elements not found in the picture (such as the person holding a sword, or wearing a crown).
Next would be colouring, followed by shading and lighting.
Through out the process, the person buying the piece can ask for changes (CaN I be holding a flail instead of a sword) while or before the work is being done, but once its past a stage, it is finalized. (You know, I think I'd prefer the third picture of me instead, can you redo it all).
This allows the buyer to see the work and not be surprised when they recieve it. If the artist is smart, each step would have ots own price, so if the buyer backs out before it is done, they can at least get something for the work they put in.
This part may sound weird to some, but unless you have been friends with the artist beforehand, try to be professional please. Don't act like they are your friend, don't hit on them and most importantly don't ask them uncomfortable questions like "how long exactly is your hair" or stalk them on Steam
I hope that helps :V
Does this mean no signed photo in the hat?
...
And... @Buttercheese I... Sometimes forget that English is a second language for you... My previous post was sent completely innocently but now worried that you read a completely different meaning due to the unfortunate coincidence that certain words sound similar. If you read something altogether inappropriate, Google translate it please so my innocence can be assured. If you actually didn't find anything wrong with the post. I apologise for both my terribly, dirty mind and my paranoia. I need a good brainwashing...
Lastly, €100 sounds good! Perhaps a link to a page please?
What, no, I know you where joking, don't worry :V However: I was also joking, I don't do portrait painting (simply because I am not good at it), sorry :X (That's why I said Deutsche Mark and cash, because Deutsche Mark doesn't exist anymore :V)
So please, do tell me what reasonable pricing means to you guys.
No more than 400NOK. Which, for a piece of artwork, I'm fully aware wouldn't be a good deal for most artists. Hence it would make sense for it to be sold to a wider audience than just me. For an image file I'd only use in a couple games though I think that's a lot of money; a game itself easily has this price tag.
My "other" is "No, not in a million years would I pay so much as a dime for that sort of thing." If you want to throw money away, would you mind doing it in my direction?
I would pay to have a good portrait for a mod NPC in BGII style etc.
I only fear that the amount of money I'd be willing to spend for my hobby does not cover the artist's work time. Because what I consider reasonable in terms of expenses for a hobby for a 10+ year old computer game does not. (And getting a reduced price because of some reason is nice for my purse but I don't like the idea of my payment not even covering the other one's costs. It kind of spoils the fun, imho. )
So - would this mean I should have ticked "no"? *ponders*
I think the whole problem with "reasonable pricing" for custom game portraits is that while the artist sells copyright to the commissioned artwork, the customer usually is only interested in fair use rights to it. The latter, of course, costs an order of magnitude less.
@Ardanis Yes, the price can vary greatly based on which rights you buy with an artwork. Though every artist handles things differently in that regard. When in doubt just ask ahead.
Comments
It may be that, like you said, income in different countries is different. Makes sense. I can further say that you could find people within your country such that 'live well' in spite of having income with a less impressive number of digits than this amount commonly seen as prerequisite to 'living well', as well as those who 'live well' with no income at all, and even those who struggle with 'living well' in spite of holding assets worth billions upon billions of euros. The universe can sometimes be fun like that.
Also, I can make a BG2 style portrait for you if you want one, @Buttercheese.
@lolien @Vallmyr @Shandyr and @KidCarnival have found or had to create portraits for me. I hardly ever stick with one I have found myself.
So... @Buttercheese how much for a gnome, mummified, holding a quill, with only his teeth showing (a skulls grinning rictus of course!), in a wizards robe... (All other stuff such as colour, what I'm holding in my other hand, the background, hooded, unhooded, glowing eyes, eyepatch or whatever I would leave to your digression...)
And I would need a message as well...
I am Anduin?
Lich happens?
Undead and unjustified?
I am your frenemy?
I got 99 problems bit a Lich ain't one?
Mwhahaha!?
You'll never take me alive, I'm already dead!?
(I'll need to think on this...)
I would pay £30 plus postage and packaging to put it on a shirt... You do this already, yeah?
...
I would also like a signed photo to go with it... You know... To take to the antiques roadshow in a 100 years.
For you it's gonna be not a single penny more than 200 Deutsche Mark :V
(Cash in advance, no returns)
It's not too far away from what I thought. It will only take a quick change in the exchange rate for me to be in a position of becoming an art benifactor.
...
However, for this I would expect a suggestive wink on my signed photo. And you would need to wear the hat... You know the one @Buttercheese ...
First of all, there is a lot of talking. Trying to find out what the commissioner wants and what he actually needs. During this stage we talk about the details of the artwork, what it's for, a rough price estimate, legal use, etc. Once we have come to an agreement, I start putting up some veeeeeeeery rough sketches that give the commissioner an idea for the composition.
Once they is happy with the composition, it comes to payment. Depending on the price range, they either pay full price up front or half of it now, half after completion. Once I got my money, I start the real work.
With every step I complete, I check back with the client to see if he needs anything changed before I proceed to make sure the artwork comes as close to their vision as possible (though people usually leave me a lot of artistic freedom, which is awesome and makes everything a lot easier for me). That goes on and on until it the piece is finished.
I check back with the commissioner one more time, show them a last WIP.
If they payed full up front and are satisfied with my artwork, I send them the full resolution version of the image. If they only payed half, they will get the full size piece after they payed the rest. (Please note that up to this point all WIPs are low-res and contain a watermark, to make sure I am not getting scammed :V)
And that usually summs it up.
It can happen that I fall into artblock during work or can't finish the artwork for some other reason, in which case I have to cancel the project and will send the money back asap.
________________________________________
Some general advice for commissioners:
- Try to be as clear as possible when explaining what you want and what you want it for. The artist can't look into your head, so if something doesn't fit your desires in the finished artwork but you didn't say anything during the planing phase and project, it's your fault, not the artist's.
- When paying via paypal, never send the artist the money directly. The artist has to send you and invoice, otherwise they might get in serious legal trouble with paypal which can lead to their account being closed!
- Don't expect anything skill- or style-wise that you can't also find in the artist's portfolio. If you want a portrait painting, commission a portrait artist.
- If you have questions or something isn't clear, always ask! Like I said, artists can't look into your head
- Sometimes a piece won't meet your expectations no matter what. That happens. But unless the piece doesn't meet the standards that have been previously made clear (i.e. "I want the artwork to look like this one piece from your portfolio"), you can't ask for your money back.
However, if the artist did indeed just halfass it, then you got all the rights to ask for a refund. That's why it's important to talk everything through beforehand.
- This part may sound weird to some, but unless you have been friends with the artist beforehand, try to be professional please. Don't act like they are your friend, don't hit on them and most importantly don't ask them uncomfortable questions like "how long exactly is your hair" or stalk them on Steam
I hope that helps :V
You usually get a step by step progress report that you can request changes to.
First would be picture used and sizing. With the artist cropping to the dimensions.
Next would be a line draw or a sketch which adds in elements not found in the picture (such as the person holding a sword, or wearing a crown).
Next would be colouring, followed by shading and lighting.
Through out the process, the person buying the piece can ask for changes (CaN I be holding a flail instead of a sword) while or before the work is being done, but once its past a stage, it is finalized. (You know, I think I'd prefer the third picture of me instead, can you redo it all).
This allows the buyer to see the work and not be surprised when they recieve it. If the artist is smart, each step would have ots own price, so if the buyer backs out before it is done, they can at least get something for the work they put in.
Painting works differently.
And I will stop stalking you @Buttercheese. I recieved the restraining order.
...
And... @Buttercheese I... Sometimes forget that English is a second language for you... My previous post was sent completely innocently but now worried that you read a completely different meaning due to the unfortunate coincidence that certain words sound similar. If you read something altogether inappropriate, Google translate it please so my innocence can be assured. If you actually didn't find anything wrong with the post. I apologise for both my terribly, dirty mind and my paranoia. I need a good brainwashing...
Lastly, €100 sounds good! Perhaps a link to a page please?
However: I was also joking, I don't do portrait painting (simply because I am not good at it), sorry :X
(That's why I said Deutsche Mark and cash, because Deutsche Mark doesn't exist anymore :V)
I made one around-hallows-days, and feeling like making another around-solstice-days.
I only fear that the amount of money I'd be willing to spend for my hobby does not cover the artist's work time. Because what I consider reasonable in terms of expenses for a hobby for a 10+ year old computer game does not. (And getting a reduced price because of some reason is nice for my purse but I don't like the idea of my payment not even covering the other one's costs. It kind of spoils the fun, imho.
So - would this mean I should have ticked "no"? *ponders*