Mirandel has more or less summoned my thoughts on this mod as well. The amount of work here is truly staggering. I also really (really, REALLY) like the idea of creating an NPC that functions almost like a foil to the path Charname will take. It's a brilliant, and totally audacious undertaking.
My biggest issues with the mod were:
A ) - The Mary Sue situation. I relate to characters more for their flaws than their virtues, so it hems in my ability to get attached. I think some people may enjoy this aspect though. So I dont know if it's actually a problem... maybe just not to my tastes.
B ) - The uneven execution due to relying on so many mods. This isnt necessarily a critique of the Sandrah herself - but when some of the mods required arent as enjoyable as the others, it wears on me for including them all.
C ) - The combat. I still dont know if it was intended, but the combat included in the mod wasnt really balanced. It seemed like bg2 type fights pushed into bg1 content, with Sandrah's infinite supply of healing spells that autocast to keep Charname alive.
I keep hearing that the mary sue aspect goes away the longer you play, where she works in reverse of the main character (again, foil). Going from being super self-important and powerful to sort of backing off. It's possible I didnt go far enough (Was running around halfway through bg1 when my whims carried me elsewhere). I rather like that idea... just wish it was more apparent even from the get-go.
Thanks @Mirandel and now better make sure its a male PC run but hate they force it down your throat with no options...ugggh. I also had issues with some mods that were needed for sandrah and BWS didnt add them for some reason due to some "conflict" so got to figure that out during my next run.
Thanks @Mirandel and now better make sure its a male PC run but hate they force it down your throat with no options...ugggh. I also had issues with some mods that were needed for sandrah and BWS didnt add them for some reason due to some "conflict" so got to figure that out during my next run.
In short - the romance part is a part of regular dialogs, it can not be excluded for anyone not willing to romance Sandrah. It's a shortcoming of the mod many come across - ruined player agency. Roxanne regrets to go this way, did not want romance to exist on the first place but at the end used it for reasoning to continue the journey after ToB. "Hate" has nothing to do with it, just a warning to those who is going to try Saga.
Thanks @Mirandel and now better make sure its a male PC run but hate they force it down your throat with no options...ugggh. I also had issues with some mods that were needed for sandrah and BWS didnt add them for some reason due to some "conflict" so got to figure that out during my next run.
In short - the romance part is a part of regular dialogs, it can not be excluded for anyone not willing to romance Sandrah. It's a shortcoming of the mod many come across - ruined player agency. Roxanne regrets to go this way, did not want romance to exist on the first place but at the end used it for reasoning to continue the journey after ToB. "Hate" has nothing to do with it, just a warning to those who is going to try Saga.
After having played through the whole Saga once already and now again in the second half of BG1 part, I may be in a position to put the whole discussion into a bit of perspective: - in the context of the complete game playthrough, the few romance talks you have with her are almost neglectable. - it should not matter much for the overall mod whether protagonist and Sandrah are lovers or just good friends - the Sandrah romance is not exclusive, so you can do any other game romance as well - in all the later chapters of the game, there are just PID talks by which you can keep that romance alive if you want (except for a night in Underdark, where the drow female in her seems to awake) - I agree that there should be made some more *cosmetic* enhancement for friendship vs. romance for those players who may feel offended by her *free love* ideas - none of the above was a real show stopper for me, but I agree that the romance thing is not a highlight of the mod and it may discourage/offend some players especially in the early BG1 part.
After having played through the whole Saga once already and now again in the second half of BG1 part, I may be in a position to put the whole discussion into a bit of perspective: - in the context of the complete game playthrough, the few romance talks you have with her are almost neglectable. - it should not matter much for the overall mod whether protagonist and Sandrah are lovers or just good friends - the Sandrah romance is not exclusive, so you can do any other game romance as well - in all the later chapters of the game, there are just PID talks by which you can keep that romance alive if you want (except for a night in Underdark, where the drow female in her seems to awake) - I agree that there should be made some more *cosmetic* enhancement for friendship vs. romance for those players who may feel offended by her *free love* ideas - none of the above was a real show stopper for me, but I agree that the romance thing is not a highlight of the mod and it may discourage/offend some players especially in the early BG1 part.
It's not about being "offended by her *free love* ideas". It's about the player's agency over his/her CHARNAME. One can be fine Sandrah screwing everyone up and down the Sword Coast but still want control over their own CHARNAME's reactions.
Fortunately, its a mod, so the easy solution is not to install it if the mod isn't something you'd enjoy.
After having played through the whole Saga once already and now again in the second half of BG1 part, I may be in a position to put the whole discussion into a bit of perspective: - in the context of the complete game playthrough, the few romance talks you have with her are almost neglectable. - it should not matter much for the overall mod whether protagonist and Sandrah are lovers or just good friends - the Sandrah romance is not exclusive, so you can do any other game romance as well - in all the later chapters of the game, there are just PID talks by which you can keep that romance alive if you want (except for a night in Underdark, where the drow female in her seems to awake) - I agree that there should be made some more *cosmetic* enhancement for friendship vs. romance for those players who may feel offended by her *free love* ideas - none of the above was a real show stopper for me, but I agree that the romance thing is not a highlight of the mod and it may discourage/offend some players especially in the early BG1 part.
It's not about being "offended by her *free love* ideas". It's about the player's agency over his/her CHARNAME. One can be fine Sandrah screwing everyone up and down the Sword Coast but still want control over their own CHARNAME's reactions.
Fortunately, its a mod, so the easy solution is not to install it.
I just read the topic that @Mirandel was referencing above.
I played the original BGT beta version of the mod about 3-4 years ago. There was no PC romance but Sandrah was *screwing everyone up and down the Sword Coast* in the manner of her role model Midnight, the later Mystra. Then a lot of (male) players made comments and suggestions like *why does she prefer Garrick to me?*. So something was screwed on to the mod that wasn't the original idea. You can never make it right for everybody and sometimes first ideas are the better ones.
Personally, I liked the initial idea better, where Sandrah kind of had the romance which my protagonist left out. It allowed me to follow one romance mayself and let her pursue another one, so I could play two love stories in one game.
The question is, what would be the simplest way to fix it. As of now, mod will get WTF questions about that BG1 part every time a new player installs it. I still think separation of romance from the main dialog lines and giving at least PID to stop it at any point might solve the problem. Admitting, though, I have no idea how much work would it take. Roxanne said it's a lot.
Thats not too bad then and can live with it, especially if not exclusive I just need to try it as reading too much already about it and overall looks like a good mod
Just thought it worth giving a heads up and saying that a couple of days ago Roxanne updated the mod with the following changelog:
VERSION 2.05 ----------------- Made Sandrah romance less restrictive More dialogue options for friendship path Tuned several encounters to take SCS into account Added Midnight's book to game Removed crossmod White NPC Removed crossmod Foundling NPC Removed crossmod Varshoon NPC Removed crossmod Aeon NPC Removed crossmod Fade NPC Elfsong ghost added Item descriptions extended
First two details could be of interest for those concerned about the Romance aspect of this mod. I've started the process of reinstalling it with Big World Setup but it's a long slog, damn Sword Coast Strategems always takes forever to install.,,,
Just thought it worth giving a heads up and saying that a couple of days ago Roxanne updated the mod with the following changelog:
VERSION 2.05 ----------------- Made Sandrah romance less restrictive More dialogue options for friendship path Tuned several encounters to take SCS into account Added Midnight's book to game Removed crossmod White NPC Removed crossmod Foundling NPC Removed crossmod Varshoon NPC Removed crossmod Aeon NPC Removed crossmod Fade NPC Elfsong ghost added Item descriptions extended
First two details could be of interest for those concerned about the Romance aspect of this mod. I've started the process of reinstalling it with Big World Setup but it's a long slog, damn Sword Coast Strategems always takes forever to install.,,,
Thanks for the info.
Just wondering - removes crossmod for mods that aren't even EET compatible anyway - not yet containing the Caelar rescue plot for ToB I was hoping for ? priorities?
Just thought it worth giving a heads up and saying that a couple of days ago Roxanne updated the mod with the following changelog:
VERSION 2.05 ----------------- Made Sandrah romance less restrictive More dialogue options for friendship path Tuned several encounters to take SCS into account Added Midnight's book to game Removed crossmod White NPC Removed crossmod Foundling NPC Removed crossmod Varshoon NPC Removed crossmod Aeon NPC Removed crossmod Fade NPC Elfsong ghost added Item descriptions extended
First two details could be of interest for those concerned about the Romance aspect of this mod. I've started the process of reinstalling it with Big World Setup but it's a long slog, damn Sword Coast Strategems always takes forever to install.,,,
Thanks for the info.
Just wondering - removes crossmod for mods that aren't even EET compatible anyway - not yet containing the Caelar rescue plot for ToB I was hoping for ? priorities?
Wait, it would also include a Caelar plot? Perhaps as a companion then?
I wonder if anyone had simillar problem. I installed Sandrah Saga and I've been currently checking stability of it. I found out that when I'm setting Legacy of Bhaal diffculty level then Sandrah is automatically leveled up a lot... Is this normal feature or it simply bug? Gibberlings are currently down so I'm not able to check if anything is there regarding this problem.
And also one more question. If some of you also encountered lag in inventory with this mods. BWS warned that there is over 40k files in override and it can happen. It also reported something about General BIffing mod. Should I use it?
And also one more question. If some of you also encountered lag in inventory with this mods. BWS warned that there is over 40k files in override and it can happen. It also reported something about General BIffing mod. Should I use it?
The inventory lag is a general problem of the game and not related to this or any other mod. It is apperent more often if you have a company with many restrictive items but it is a random problem of the vanilla game and how it looks for who in the party can use which item.
The BWS warning and biffing features are not targeted at EE/EET games. For EET it does not matter where files are (in biffs or override). There has been loads of anylysis and discussion over at Spellhold and Gibberlings 3 about the issue, until today there is no single evidence that (cumbersome long process to biff override folder) is needed or provides any performance gain for a game running under BG2EE.
Biffing was essential for old BGT but has never been recommended for EE.
I wonder if anyone had simillar problem. I installed Sandrah Saga and I've been currently checking stability of it. I found out that when I'm setting Legacy of Bhaal diffculty level then Sandrah is automatically leveled up a lot... Is this normal feature or it simply bug? Gibberlings are currently down so I'm not able to check if anything is there regarding this problem.
When she joins early and your party is still small, she levels fast (cleric!) at the early levels. I've never played with her on LoB mode, but I can imagine it will turn out weird because of some of the mega mods she ties into the game and the way those will be beefed up by LoB. For such an install in EET, I'd rather use SCS and combine it with HARD setting. But that's just me, I think that LoB is crap and very unsatisfactory. SCS and HARD + only rest at inns is far more challenging while still being able to follow a game plot. After all, Sandrah is mainly a content mod that you play for the quests rather than for overblown battles.
Regarding SCS I currently have it but not full pack because problem which probably everyone who installed Sandrah Saga recently had - out of memory weidu. I found out that this currently known issue and im not sure how I can resolved it aparat from trying manual installation. But I don't know if it will break something right now. Few things had been installed after SCS like aTweaks and Rogue Rebalance.
Any advice regarding that? Sorry for off top but I guess it is kinda related to this mod.
Regarding SCS I currently have it but not full pack because problem which probably everyone who installed Sandrah Saga recently had - out of memory weidu. I found out that this currently known issue and im not sure how I can resolved it aparat from trying manual installation. But I don't know if it will break something right now. Few things had been installed after SCS like aTweaks and Rogue Rebalance.
Any advice regarding that? Sorry for off top but I guess it is kinda related to this mod.
Pretty sure SCS is supposed to dead last in install order.
In all my installs I followed the BWS advice to install Sandrah after SCS. This works fine, because the Sandrah mod uses the scripts and modifications made by SCS just the same, i.e. it doesn't matter if SCS makes its changes before or after Sandrah.
@PaulaMigrate , am I right to assume you played EET both with and without Sandrah mod? If so, do you think one can install Sandrah but in case not inviting here into the party get the normal EET experience (as if simply playing EET with quest mods without Sandrah)?
@PaulaMigrate , am I right to assume you played EET both with and without Sandrah mod? If so, do you think one can install Sandrah but in case not inviting here into the party get the normal EET experience (as if simply playing EET with quest mods without Sandrah)?
I think more or less yes. There is a scene in Candlekeep at the start of the game where you see Sandrah talking to Gorion and then leaving. I don't think this has any impact on the game if you don't take her along later on. There is also the choice of class for Imoen, but that's independent as well. As far as I can tell, all the additional stuff only runs with her being in the party or having been sent ahead to join you later. If she's gone for good, all her contents is lost. If I read the mod's code correctly, there are no changes made to the game that become visible without her. This means that you can't do any of the quests or visit any of the new areas without her. And the game ends at ToB. But maybe to be really sure, you should ask the author herself.
@PaulaMigrate , am I right to assume you played EET both with and without Sandrah mod? If so, do you think one can install Sandrah but in case not inviting here into the party get the normal EET experience (as if simply playing EET with quest mods without Sandrah)?
I recall reading that the Sandrah mod adds "Tactics"-like changes to vanilla areas and encounters... a 15th-level enemy in a place where most players are 2nd-level, allow-level enemies spitting Fireballs at you, etc. I'm being vague to avoid spoilers, and I'm going off memory from something I read like a year ago. So could be mistaken. But it's probably worth checking before you install, if your hope is to treat the mod as optional content.
(I usually install a bunch of NPC mods because if I ignore them, they have not effect on my game. So there's no reason not to install them. But my recollection is, Sandrah doesn't work that way.)
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood the question from @Mirandel . I understood that she wanted to install the Sandrah mod but not take that NPC into the party. In which case all encounters that have condition IsValidForPartyDialogue("CVSandr") would not trigger. Of course, the code would still be in the game. But the event would not show in game. Like some enforcements outside the Nashkel mines or the Xvart village or the shadow druids near Nashkel Carnival and such.
a 15th-level enemy in a place where most players are 2nd-level
I can't confirm that. Mind that we talk about an EET game here, where you can revisit any area from any later part of the game. There are quests in the Sandrah mod that take you back to earlier BG1 areas in much later chapters of the game and those areas will have a different set of opponents by that time. Something like a 2nd-level place does not exist in EET. There was a mod that put a squadron of ToB level archers in from of Feldepost inn at the very start of the game, but that wasn't Sandrah.
I'm now in my second EET playthrough with the Sandrah mod installed and I can't confirm any of the observations from @subtledoctor .
I would rather not share my present install because a) it has outdated versions for many mods because I use it for a long time already b) it has manually added mods for which I volunteered to beta test them c) the resulting install sequence is not perfect and I'm aware of a number of issues from that. I've reported those back to BWS people so it's now taken into account while I just ignore those things if they pop up in my game. d) I have done a number of uninstalls/re-installs recently and even manipulated my weidu.log to force some overwrites. The result of it is a pretty experimental build by this time.
I would not recommend this install to anyone and I cannot even provide sufficient details from memory of what manipulations I have done.
However, I've done countless mega-mod install successfully in the past and would consider myself as a minor expert when it comes to that. I plan to do a new full install in the near future - I have only delayed it with the hope that it may include IWD-in-EET. But this may take longer than expected and I may do a new install prior to IWD release. (Talking about a month from now.)
In case you're still interested by that time (you're Mac user, aren't you - I think I've seen some posts on another forum about it?), there is no reason not to share it. You just need to bear in mind that my mod selection is reflecting my tastes of the game and someone using it may not be of the same type of player.
In case you're still interested by that time (you're Mac user, aren't you - I think I've seen some posts on another forum about it?), there is no reason not to share it. You just need to bear in mind that my mod selection is reflecting my tastes of the game and someone using it may not be of the same type of player.
Yes, I'm a Mac user. I'd like to play the Sandrah Saga, but installing a Windows system somewhere and learn the BWS/BWP is a bit much.
So, if you like to share, I'll happily play your mod selection. Learning something new is always a good thing.
Comments
My biggest issues with the mod were:
A ) - The Mary Sue situation. I relate to characters more for their flaws than their virtues, so it hems in my ability to get attached. I think some people may enjoy this aspect though. So I dont know if it's actually a problem... maybe just not to my tastes.
B ) - The uneven execution due to relying on so many mods. This isnt necessarily a critique of the Sandrah herself - but when some of the mods required arent as enjoyable as the others, it wears on me for including them all.
C ) - The combat. I still dont know if it was intended, but the combat included in the mod wasnt really balanced. It seemed like bg2 type fights pushed into bg1 content, with Sandrah's infinite supply of healing spells that autocast to keep Charname alive.
I keep hearing that the mary sue aspect goes away the longer you play, where she works in reverse of the main character (again, foil). Going from being super self-important and powerful to sort of backing off. It's possible I didnt go far enough (Was running around halfway through bg1 when my whims carried me elsewhere). I rather like that idea... just wish it was more apparent even from the get-go.
I also had issues with some mods that were needed for sandrah and BWS didnt add them for some reason due to some "conflict" so got to figure that out during my next run.
Read her answer, please.
In short - the romance part is a part of regular dialogs, it can not be excluded for anyone not willing to romance Sandrah. It's a shortcoming of the mod many come across - ruined player agency. Roxanne regrets to go this way, did not want romance to exist on the first place but at the end used it for reasoning to continue the journey after ToB.
"Hate" has nothing to do with it, just a warning to those who is going to try Saga.
- in the context of the complete game playthrough, the few romance talks you have with her are almost neglectable.
- it should not matter much for the overall mod whether protagonist and Sandrah are lovers or just good friends
- the Sandrah romance is not exclusive, so you can do any other game romance as well
- in all the later chapters of the game, there are just PID talks by which you can keep that romance alive if you want (except for a night in Underdark, where the drow female in her seems to awake)
- I agree that there should be made some more *cosmetic* enhancement for friendship vs. romance for those players who may feel offended by her *free love* ideas
- none of the above was a real show stopper for me, but I agree that the romance thing is not a highlight of the mod and it may discourage/offend some players especially in the early BG1 part.
Fortunately, its a mod, so the easy solution is not to install it if the mod isn't something you'd enjoy.
I played the original BGT beta version of the mod about 3-4 years ago. There was no PC romance but Sandrah was *screwing everyone up and down the Sword Coast* in the manner of her role model Midnight, the later Mystra.
Then a lot of (male) players made comments and suggestions like *why does she prefer Garrick to me?*. So something was screwed on to the mod that wasn't the original idea. You can never make it right for everybody and sometimes first ideas are the better ones.
Personally, I liked the initial idea better, where Sandrah kind of had the romance which my protagonist left out. It allowed me to follow one romance mayself and let her pursue another one, so I could play two love stories in one game.
I still think separation of romance from the main dialog lines and giving at least PID to stop it at any point might solve the problem. Admitting, though, I have no idea how much work would it take. Roxanne said it's a lot.
VERSION 2.05
-----------------
Made Sandrah romance less restrictive
More dialogue options for friendship path
Tuned several encounters to take SCS into account
Added Midnight's book to game
Removed crossmod White NPC
Removed crossmod Foundling NPC
Removed crossmod Varshoon NPC
Removed crossmod Aeon NPC
Removed crossmod Fade NPC
Elfsong ghost added
Item descriptions extended
First two details could be of interest for those concerned about the Romance aspect of this mod. I've started the process of reinstalling it with Big World Setup but it's a long slog, damn Sword Coast Strategems always takes forever to install.,,,
Just wondering
- removes crossmod for mods that aren't even EET compatible anyway
- not yet containing the Caelar rescue plot for ToB I was hoping for
? priorities?
I wonder if anyone had simillar problem. I installed Sandrah Saga and I've been currently checking stability of it. I found out that when I'm setting Legacy of Bhaal diffculty level then Sandrah is automatically leveled up a lot... Is this normal feature or it simply bug? Gibberlings are currently down so I'm not able to check if anything is there regarding this problem.
Cheers.
The BWS warning and biffing features are not targeted at EE/EET games. For EET it does not matter where files are (in biffs or override). There has been loads of anylysis and discussion over at Spellhold and Gibberlings 3 about the issue, until today there is no single evidence that (cumbersome long process to biff override folder) is needed or provides any performance gain for a game running under BG2EE.
Biffing was essential for old BGT but has never been recommended for EE.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/751768/#Comment_751768
When she joins early and your party is still small, she levels fast (cleric!) at the early levels. I've never played with her on LoB mode, but I can imagine it will turn out weird because of some of the mega mods she ties into the game and the way those will be beefed up by LoB.
For such an install in EET, I'd rather use SCS and combine it with HARD setting. But that's just me, I think that LoB is crap and very unsatisfactory. SCS and HARD + only rest at inns is far more challenging while still being able to follow a game plot. After all, Sandrah is mainly a content mod that you play for the quests rather than for overblown battles.
Thanks for your input!
Regarding SCS I currently have it but not full pack because problem which probably everyone who installed Sandrah Saga recently had - out of memory weidu. I found out that this currently known issue and im not sure how I can resolved it aparat from trying manual installation. But I don't know if it will break something right now. Few things had been installed after SCS like aTweaks and Rogue Rebalance.
Any advice regarding that? Sorry for off top but I guess it is kinda related to this mod.
Most hints are at Gibberlings 3 which is down at the moment.
Installing SCS in parts shouldn't break anything once the main component is installed.
As far as I can tell, all the additional stuff only runs with her being in the party or having been sent ahead to join you later. If she's gone for good, all her contents is lost.
If I read the mod's code correctly, there are no changes made to the game that become visible without her. This means that you can't do any of the quests or visit any of the new areas without her. And the game ends at ToB.
But maybe to be really sure, you should ask the author herself.
In which case all encounters that have condition
IsValidForPartyDialogue("CVSandr")
would not trigger. Of course, the code would still be in the game. But the event would not show in game. Like some enforcements outside the Nashkel mines or the Xvart village or the shadow druids near Nashkel Carnival and such.
I can't confirm that. Mind that we talk about an EET game here, where you can revisit any area from any later part of the game. There are quests in the Sandrah mod that take you back to earlier BG1 areas in much later chapters of the game and those areas will have a different set of opponents by that time. Something like a 2nd-level place does not exist in EET.
There was a mod that put a squadron of ToB level archers in from of Feldepost inn at the very start of the game, but that wasn't Sandrah.
I'm now in my second EET playthrough with the Sandrah mod installed and I can't confirm any of the observations from @subtledoctor .
It can easily done by using the DLC Builder for Enhanced Edition v2.x games mod. It may take a little time (2-3 hours).
a) it has outdated versions for many mods because I use it for a long time already
b) it has manually added mods for which I volunteered to beta test them
c) the resulting install sequence is not perfect and I'm aware of a number of issues from that. I've reported those back to BWS people so it's now taken into account while I just ignore those things if they pop up in my game.
d) I have done a number of uninstalls/re-installs recently and even manipulated my weidu.log to force some overwrites. The result of it is a pretty experimental build by this time.
I would not recommend this install to anyone and I cannot even provide sufficient details from memory of what manipulations I have done.
However, I've done countless mega-mod install successfully in the past and would consider myself as a minor expert when it comes to that. I plan to do a new full install in the near future - I have only delayed it with the hope that it may include IWD-in-EET. But this may take longer than expected and I may do a new install prior to IWD release. (Talking about a month from now.)
In case you're still interested by that time (you're Mac user, aren't you - I think I've seen some posts on another forum about it?), there is no reason not to share it. You just need to bear in mind that my mod selection is reflecting my tastes of the game and someone using it may not be of the same type of player.
So, if you like to share, I'll happily play your mod selection. Learning something new is always a good thing.