@Raduziel Yeah, that's what the end of SOD says. But TOTSC says that you were hired by a dwarf to find Soultaker and bring it back to him. Some cultists steal it and destroy it to release their demon lord Aec'Lectec. Thus, the dagger can't be involved in the events of SOD because it was destroyed before that.
@Raduziel Step 1: Arrive in Ulgoth's Beard Step 2: Cult demands dagger and regardless of what you say, they take it and run off Step 3: Dialogue with Dwarf says dagger is gone because you are the one that says it. Step 4: Go to Cult House, you actually see in the dialogue that the cult breaks the dagger they stole from you to summon Aec'Lectec.
@semiticgod Pretty sure it's the same dagger. Quote "An artifact known as the Soultaker Dagger" it isn't being said as A soultaker dagger, it's THE soultaker dagger, as in there is only one.
At that one is destroyed prior to SOD, meaning that is can't be used in SOD. But since SOD is canon, this forces TOTSC to not be canon.
Baldur's Gate 2 does the same thing, the party doesn't recognize Dradeel as there are no dialogue options to suggest you do. Party members have reactions to Tiax, but not Dradeel.
I've thought the same issue with the ST dagger since SoD came out. So either there is another, OR, when the cultist says "The dagger is broken", it only means the power of it's entrapment of Aec is broken (but is not recovered). They don't really go into a detailed method other than that one line. Tis a bit strange
@Zaghoul That is a possibility that the dagger might have been metaphorically broken rather than physcially. It isn't possible that there is more than one though.
Chapter 7 BG1 Logic: Noblemen start changing into Dopplegangers, but if you kill them before they finish changing you take a rep hit and all the Flaming Fist guards turn on you, despite it being painfully obvious that the noblemen are turning into Dopplegangers.
Speaking of Dopplegangers, after last playthrough couple questions popped in my head. The sheer number you encounter is staggering. I think there is more Dopplegangers in BG City than Kobolds in Nashkel Mines and then there are some more in Candlekeep. Where did Sarevok get so many Dopplegangers? How did he make them work for him? Did CHARNAME and party exterminate whole/most of Dopplegangers population of Sword Coast? (or maybe even from other regions?)
@DJKajuru Sounds great. Dorn and Neera (Zaram's love interest) are also good choices. As I had said before, me and a friend jokingly paired Dorn and Imoen together (yes, romantically) so it would be great to get a picture of them together if that isn't too much, just so I have something to give my friend.
Take as much time as you need and post any artwork here when you are done.
Great to see you back
BG2 Logic: Khalid and Dynaheir who have been brutally experimented to death by Irenicus can' t be brought back, this makes sense. Tiax was killed through some sort of magical force, likely Irenicus's power amplified by CHARNAME's soul, this also makes sense. We don't know how the Harpers killed Xzar and Montaron respectively, so them being permadead also makes sense. However, Ajantis is simply killed by CHARNAME (accidentally) and he can't be ressurected because reasons.
Man, after BG1 it gets DARK BG1 NPCs who are dead before or during the events of BG2 (attempting my best to make it chronological) 1. Skie 2. Dynaheir 3. Khalid 4. Montaron 5. Xzar 6. Ajantis 7. Safana That makes a total of 8 companions if you count Yoshimo or don't make it through the franchise, and that is just the one's we know about. The Only BG1 NPCs confirmed alive at the end of BG2 (assuming the player does not kill them or takes the proper precautions to insure their survival) are 1. Imoen 2. Jaheria 3. Minsc 4. Viconia (granted she dies later) 5. Neera 6. Rasaad 7. Dorn 8. Coran (IF you save him) 9. Garrick 10. Quayle (If you save him)
SOD Logic: Let's force Tales of the Sword Coast to not be canon by specifically mentioning the Soultaker Dagger having had Skie's soul trapped inside despite it being destroyed during the events of BG1.
I recall that when you return to Hurgan after the big A fight, he says with the demon dead, the dagger is no longer a threat, not that it was destroyed.
@ThacoBell Yes, but don't the Cultists say they broke it? Unless the Soultaker Dagger is capable of reforming itself, which actually would make a lot of sense.
@ThacoBell Yes, but don't the Cultists say they broke it? Unless the Soultaker Dagger is capable of reforming itself, which actually would make a lot of sense.
I'll have to look out for it on my next playthrough, but I don't recall that happening.
I think I already mentioned this but Xvart Village attacks party when they've done nothing to them, then has the audacity to say that the party attacked the Xvart village when they've done nothing to them.
Speaking of Dopplegangers, after last playthrough couple questions popped in my head. The sheer number you encounter is staggering. I think there is more Dopplegangers in BG City than Kobolds in Nashkel Mines and then there are some more in Candlekeep. Where did Sarevok get so many Dopplegangers? How did he make them work for him? Did CHARNAME and party exterminate whole/most of Dopplegangers population of Sword Coast? (or maybe even from other regions?)
Heh, I remember thinking the same. The only AD&D Monster Manual edition I have is the 1st. Dopplegangers are listed as Very Rare, the same by the way as a lich. I guess it's a good thing Mr. S didn't put an add up on the local Monster job board for them as well.
Maybe he just started a major leaflet campaign, using coded messages that targeted dopplegangers. "Are you good at impersonations, like to kill? The neighbors don't feel comfortable with you around? Well, don't worry, we have a job for you". The Far Side
I think I already mentioned this but Xvart Village attacks party when they've done nothing to them, then has the audacity to say that the party attacked the Xvart village when they've done nothing to them.
Well.. Personally I think the outcome makes the player look worse.
I mean you even kill their pet bear! What kind of person are you
Jon Irenicus logic: There are literally hundreds of Bhaalspawn around - chinchilla Bhaalspawn, kobold Bhaalspawn ... not to mention tons of small-time humans, elves, half-elves, etc. in villages, towns and cities up and down the Sword Coast. Guess I need to go through a load of trouble and planning and scheming and risk in order to kidnap and experiment on Gorion's wards - the two Bhaalspawn guaranteed to cause me the most trouble!
Irenicus could have kidnapped Gavin - the guy you meet in the first Pocket Plane test - or Viekang, or anyone like them. Instead he decides to pick on a couple of seasoned adventurers capable of breaking out of their cages and fighting their way out of his dungeon.
@Montresor_SP - or he could put some rakshasas or Adamantine Golems he uses in Sundalessahoweveryouspellitdar, instead of goblins (or even duergars in SCS). Rakshasas would do fine stopping Charname.
About Doppelgangers - why they keep Jhasso, head of Merchants' League, in cellar, instead of killing him and taking his appearance?
Also - entire premise of Black Pits 2. Because what is the wisest use of two powerful, ancient demiliches you capture? Putting them in the arena! I'm sure tickets are even more expensive than Mayweather vs McGregor...
@Montresor_SP Irenicus chose CHARNAME because he is the most powerful Bhaalspawn he is capable of getting his hands on (Sarevok died and the Five are too powerful), Imoen just happened to be dumb luck.
@Artona Suldanessellar, you're welcome. Also two demiliches? Man, Black pits is insane, I can't handle one of those things.
@ZaramMaldovar, I'll probably forget it in an hour or so, but thank you. I finished Black Pits II once will with munchkin team of evildoers, but entire premise of the thing kills me. You... you just can't have enslave a dragon and put it as attraction in the arena! It's not how Realms work! But on the more serious note - ToB may be flawed and stupidly hack'n'slashy, but it at least knows it's epic level adventure. Black Pits II pretend high levels are just numbers. It's understandable, but it still annoys me.
@ZaramMaldovar, I'll trust you on that. I can still name all of Finwe's progeny up to third generation and I think it takes all of my brain storage for weird Elvish names. Can't fit Suldanessellar.
@Artona On the other hand, Baeloth is such a great character. Does he die in Black Pits 2? Because I really wish he could've been a party member in BG2. Someone should make a Baeloth mod.
SOD to BG2 Logic: As far as I know Jaheria, Neera and the Black Pits Announcer are the only characters that even reference the events of SOD as having happened. I feel like a new patch (or a mod, yeah) is necessary so more characters can acknowledge SOD.
Comments
Yeah, that's what the end of SOD says. But TOTSC says that you were hired by a dwarf to find Soultaker and bring it back to him. Some cultists steal it and destroy it to release their demon lord Aec'Lectec. Thus, the dagger can't be involved in the events of SOD because it was destroyed before that.
Step 1: Arrive in Ulgoth's Beard
Step 2: Cult demands dagger and regardless of what you say, they take it and run off
Step 3: Dialogue with Dwarf says dagger is gone because you are the one that says it.
Step 4: Go to Cult House, you actually see in the dialogue that the cult breaks the dagger they stole from you to summon Aec'Lectec.
Therefore, the dagger can't exist in SOD.
Pretty sure it's the same dagger. Quote "An artifact known as the Soultaker Dagger" it isn't being said as A soultaker dagger, it's THE soultaker dagger, as in there is only one.
At that one is destroyed prior to SOD, meaning that is can't be used in SOD. But since SOD is canon, this forces TOTSC to not be canon.
Baldur's Gate 2 does the same thing, the party doesn't recognize Dradeel as there are no dialogue options to suggest you do. Party members have reactions to Tiax, but not Dradeel.
Tis a bit strange
That is a possibility that the dagger might have been metaphorically broken rather than physcially. It isn't possible that there is more than one though.
Chapter 7 BG1 Logic:
Noblemen start changing into Dopplegangers, but if you kill them before they finish changing you take a rep hit and all the Flaming Fist guards turn on you, despite it being painfully obvious that the noblemen are turning into Dopplegangers.
Where did Sarevok get so many Dopplegangers? How did he make them work for him? Did CHARNAME and party exterminate whole/most of Dopplegangers population of Sword Coast? (or maybe even from other regions?)
I'm back from vacation, and back to your character's artwork!
I was thinking of having him interact with Imoen, because , well, I think that all Charname's should interact with her at some point.
Sounds great. Dorn and Neera (Zaram's love interest) are also good choices. As I had said before, me and a friend jokingly paired Dorn and Imoen together (yes, romantically) so it would be great to get a picture of them together if that isn't too much, just so I have something to give my friend.
Take as much time as you need and post any artwork here when you are done.
Great to see you back
BG2 Logic:
Khalid and Dynaheir who have been brutally experimented to death by Irenicus can' t be brought back, this makes sense.
Tiax was killed through some sort of magical force, likely Irenicus's power amplified by CHARNAME's soul, this also makes sense.
We don't know how the Harpers killed Xzar and Montaron respectively, so them being permadead also makes sense.
However, Ajantis is simply killed by CHARNAME (accidentally) and he can't be ressurected because reasons.
Man, after BG1 it gets DARK
BG1 NPCs who are dead before or during the events of BG2 (attempting my best to make it chronological)
1. Skie
2. Dynaheir
3. Khalid
4. Montaron
5. Xzar
6. Ajantis
7. Safana
That makes a total of 8 companions if you count Yoshimo or don't make it through the franchise, and that is just the one's we know about.
The Only BG1 NPCs confirmed alive at the end of BG2 (assuming the player does not kill them or takes the proper precautions to insure their survival) are
1. Imoen
2. Jaheria
3. Minsc
4. Viconia (granted she dies later)
5. Neera
6. Rasaad
7. Dorn
8. Coran (IF you save him)
9. Garrick
10. Quayle (If you save him)
I'm having the time of my life guys, thanks I need this.
Long live the Baldur's Gate Logic thread!
Yes, but don't the Cultists say they broke it? Unless the Soultaker Dagger is capable of reforming itself, which actually would make a lot of sense.
BG2: 7 Chapters
TOB: 3 Chapters
SOD: 7 Chapters?
Xvart Village attacks party when they've done nothing to them, then has the audacity to say that the party attacked the Xvart village when they've done nothing to them.
Maybe he just started a major leaflet campaign, using coded messages that targeted dopplegangers. "Are you good at impersonations, like to kill? The neighbors don't feel comfortable with you around? Well, don't worry, we have a job for you".
The Far Side
Forget Dopplegangers, where did Irenicus get enough spell components to make so many golems?
Also how did the Mind Flayers in Watcher's Keep not figure out how to kill Carston sooner?
I mean you even kill their pet bear! What kind of person are you
Irenicus could have kidnapped Gavin - the guy you meet in the first Pocket Plane test - or Viekang, or anyone like them. Instead he decides to pick on a couple of seasoned adventurers capable of breaking out of their cages and fighting their way out of his dungeon.
About Doppelgangers - why they keep Jhasso, head of Merchants' League, in cellar, instead of killing him and taking his appearance?
Also - entire premise of Black Pits 2. Because what is the wisest use of two powerful, ancient demiliches you capture? Putting them in the arena! I'm sure tickets are even more expensive than Mayweather vs McGregor...
Irenicus chose CHARNAME because he is the most powerful Bhaalspawn he is capable of getting his hands on (Sarevok died and the Five are too powerful), Imoen just happened to be dumb luck.
@Artona
Suldanessellar, you're welcome.
Also two demiliches? Man, Black pits is insane, I can't handle one of those things.
I finished Black Pits II once will with munchkin team of evildoers, but entire premise of the thing kills me. You... you just can't have enslave a dragon and put it as attraction in the arena! It's not how Realms work!
But on the more serious note - ToB may be flawed and stupidly hack'n'slashy, but it at least knows it's epic level adventure. Black Pits II pretend high levels are just numbers. It's understandable, but it still annoys me.
Lol, missed an l but I fixed it.
I remember the name because you have NO idea how many times I've played BG2
On the other hand, Baeloth is such a great character. Does he die in Black Pits 2? Because I really wish he could've been a party member in BG2. Someone should make a Baeloth mod.
SOD to BG2 Logic:
As far as I know Jaheria, Neera and the Black Pits Announcer are the only characters that even reference the events of SOD as having happened. I feel like a new patch (or a mod, yeah) is necessary so more characters can acknowledge SOD.