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Baldur's Gate Logic

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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @sarevok57 I'm pretty sure the BG1 to Suldanessalar is about 2 years.

    for me, i can do it in less than 200 days sometimes, depending on what the time between games are, and since i dont play SoD im going to assume the days allotted between bg1 and bg2 is about a week at most? from what i remember of the bg2 intro video, it did seem that the shadows thieves scooped you up quite quick after you where done in bg1

    Well, SoD starts about 3 or so weeks after Sarevok's death. The military campaign is probably a week or two. So let's say BG1 to end of SoD is a few months to maybe a year depending on wandering. We also don't really know how long charname and co were held captive by Irenicus. It was long enough to give Imoen, of all people, PTSD.

    Montresor_SPsarevok57Proont
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,224
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    We also don't really know how long charname and co were held captive by Irenicus. It was long enough to give Imoen, of all people, PTSD.

    It took me about 3 months in my latest playthrough. Needless to say, I felt pretty guilty over Imoen's "What took you so long?!" line. >.>

    semiticgoddessmlneveseArviaProont
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,242
    I feel like the more innocent you are the more likely you will develop PTSD in a bad situation. And there is no BG character more innocent than Imoen.

  • ArviaArvia Member, Moderator Posts: 1,648
    I feel like the more innocent you are the more likely you will develop PTSD in a bad situation. And there is no BG character more innocent than Imoen.

    Not necessarily. I've seen very innocent people who were incredibly resilient.
    I think it's more because Imoen was quite thoroughly tortured, psychologically even more than physically. Considering what she has been through, she has her act together surprisingly well.

    mlneveseProontThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    The dryads implied Jon had raped her, which is traumatic for anybody, really. Don't think personality plays into it all that much.

    Different people might react to or cope with the trauma in different ways, but it's not like it's ever just water off a duck's back.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,298
    As you interpret it, others may see differently. The dryads state he touched her like he had touched them, searching for something inside.

    That neither specifically implies physical nor psychological, so up to whoever. Personally, I am more inclined to think it is emotional due to the parallel with the protagonist.

    sarevok57mlneveseProontThacoBell
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    edited September 2019
    lroumen wrote: »
    As you interpret it, others may see differently. The dryads state he touched her like he had touched them, searching for something inside.

    That neither specifically implies physical nor psychological, so up to whoever. Personally, I am more inclined to think it is emotional due to the parallel with the protagonist.

    If I recall touched her as he had touched them, and touched them as a man touches his wife, or something to that effect.

    I didn't see it until it was pointed out to me but the implication seemed pretty clear once I was watching for it. 7

    Edit: Okay, just replayed the scene. The dryads say they are his concubines, which would imply he does touch them in certain sexual ways, but later on when they talk about him touching them, it sounds like that's a new conversation thread, unrelated to the earlier concubine stuff.

    Who knows. Either way, whatever he did to all of us wasn't pretty. I don't think any of his prisoners got out without some mental scars to show for it.

    Post edited by Chronicler on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    The Dryads being "concubines" doesn't really imply a sexual relationship. That's a slightly more modern definiton. The first definition of concubine is just non-married cohabitation. The tone and language of the talk is very emotionally based. Irenicus hoped that the dryads charms would let him feel emotion again. But as they said, he is "barren" inside.

    Arviasarevok57gorgonzola
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    The Dryads being "concubines" doesn't really imply a sexual relationship. That's a slightly more modern definiton. The first definition of concubine is just non-married cohabitation. The tone and language of the talk is very emotionally based. Irenicus hoped that the dryads charms would let him feel emotion again. But as they said, he is "barren" inside.

    It's a modern videogame... They use Modern English. It's not like you've gotta learn Old English to read it or anything.

    "Non-Married Co-Habitation" notice Ilyich and the other duegar don't go around calling themselves his Concubines while hanging around the bedroom. They're probably not using "Concubines" to refer to the Full House type sitcom family situation they've got going here.

    Balrog99ProontSanctifer
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    edited September 2019
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    The Dryads being "concubines" doesn't really imply a sexual relationship. That's a slightly more modern definiton. The first definition of concubine is just non-married cohabitation. The tone and language of the talk is very emotionally based. Irenicus hoped that the dryads charms would let him feel emotion again. But as they said, he is "barren" inside.

    It's a modern videogame... They use Modern English. It's not like you've gotta learn Old English to read it or anything.

    "Non-Married Co-Habitation" notice Ilyich and the other duegar don't go around calling themselves his Concubines while hanging around the bedroom. They're probably not using "Concubines" to refer to the Full House type sitcom family situation they've got going here.

    The term is used for hetero co-habitation. You also don't need to go to "Old English" to use that definition of concubine. When I said its the first definition, its litreally the first listed definition if you look it up. And again, the dryads entire conversation talks about Irenicus using the dryad's to try and instill emotion.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    The Dryads being "concubines" doesn't really imply a sexual relationship. That's a slightly more modern definiton. The first definition of concubine is just non-married cohabitation. The tone and language of the talk is very emotionally based. Irenicus hoped that the dryads charms would let him feel emotion again. But as they said, he is "barren" inside.

    It's a modern videogame... They use Modern English. It's not like you've gotta learn Old English to read it or anything.

    "Non-Married Co-Habitation" notice Ilyich and the other duegar don't go around calling themselves his Concubines while hanging around the bedroom. They're probably not using "Concubines" to refer to the Full House type sitcom family situation they've got going here.

    The term is used for hetero co-habitation. You also don't need to go to "Old English" to use that definition of concubine. When I said its the first definition, its litreally the first listed definition if you look it up. And again, the dryads entire conversation talks about Irenicus using the dryad's to try and instill emotion.

    If you're referring to the first definition that appears when you look it up, you may be misinterpreting things.

    When the definition tells you that this meaning is specifically used in polygamous societies, that's not just because it's neat trivia. It's because the word refers to a role in their polygamous social structure. They're not literally just roommates in this definition.

    Balrog99Proont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,941
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    The Dryads being "concubines" doesn't really imply a sexual relationship. That's a slightly more modern definiton. The first definition of concubine is just non-married cohabitation. The tone and language of the talk is very emotionally based. Irenicus hoped that the dryads charms would let him feel emotion again. But as they said, he is "barren" inside.

    It's a modern videogame... They use Modern English. It's not like you've gotta learn Old English to read it or anything.

    "Non-Married Co-Habitation" notice Ilyich and the other duegar don't go around calling themselves his Concubines while hanging around the bedroom. They're probably not using "Concubines" to refer to the Full House type sitcom family situation they've got going here.

    The term is used for hetero co-habitation. You also don't need to go to "Old English" to use that definition of concubine. When I said its the first definition, its litreally the first listed definition if you look it up. And again, the dryads entire conversation talks about Irenicus using the dryad's to try and instill emotion.

    If you're referring to the first definition that appears when you look it up, you may be misinterpreting things.

    When the definition tells you that this meaning is specifically used in polygamous societies, that's not just because it's neat trivia. It's because the word refers to a role in their polygamous social structure. They're not literally just roommates in this definition.

    I agree wholeheartedly with @Chronicler here. There is no definition of concubine that doesn't imply sexual relations. The word 'handmaiden' would be used for non-sexual female servants back when the Bible was written.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    @Chronicler When I look it up, this is the first hit I get:

    concubine

    n.
    A woman who cohabits with a man without being legally married to him.
    n.
    In certain societies, such as imperial China, a woman contracted to a man as a secondary wife, often having few legal rights and low social status.
    n.
    A paramour, male or female.

    You have to get into second anf third definition territory to get to sexual partner levels. The word gets misused pretty heavily these days. Considering the quality of Gaider's writing, I assume he knows the difference and would have made sexual themes more obvious if that was the intent, rather than "He wants us to instill emotion."

    @Balrog99 Language is one of my hobbies, I assure you, concubine is not explicitly sexual.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    When I google that exact quote it brings me to

    https://www.yourdictionary.com/concubine

    Where it specifies that "A woman who cohabits with a man without being legally married to him." is legal terminology.

    Are we to presume that the dryads are lawyers, under the mistaken impression that they are in the middle of some court proceedings?

    Balrog99
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,941
    edited September 2019
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    @Chronicler When I look it up, this is the first hit I get:

    concubine

    n.
    A woman who cohabits with a man without being legally married to him.
    n.
    In certain societies, such as imperial China, a woman contracted to a man as a secondary wife, often having few legal rights and low social status.
    n.
    A paramour, male or female.

    You have to get into second anf third definition territory to get to sexual partner levels. The word gets misused pretty heavily these days. Considering the quality of Gaider's writing, I assume he knows the difference and would have made sexual themes more obvious if that was the intent, rather than "He wants us to instill emotion."

    @Balrog99 Language is one of my hobbies, I assure you, concubine is not explicitly sexual.

    That may be, but there are plenty of words with zero sexual connotations that could have been used instead. The choice of words implies, to me at least, that there may have been sexual abuse involved with Imoen.

    Do you really think Irenicus kidnapped the dryads just to do his laundry and dust his bookshelves for him?

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,242
    I'm fully convinced the Dryads were an experiment to bring back some symbolence of his old emotions. It's kinda sad when you think about it. I'd feel bad for him if he didn't commit such atrocities especially those he personally committed against Charname.

    That doesn't mean the Elves of Suldanesselar are right either, screw those guys too.

    Balrog99sarevok57ThacoBellProont
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,941
    Chronicler wrote: »
    When I google that exact quote it brings me to

    https://www.yourdictionary.com/concubine

    Where it specifies that "A woman who cohabits with a man without being legally married to him." is legal terminology.

    Are we to presume that the dryads are lawyers, under the mistaken impression that they are in the middle of some court proceedings?

    Maybe he kidnapped them so he could use them as free paralegals... ;)

    MERLANCE
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    edited September 2019
    I never got the impression that the dryads were experiments in the way that you and your companions are experiments.

    I don't know. I always thought of the way he reached out to the dryads as an almost unconscious longing. Like he's searching for something he's lost but he no longer fully understands what that is. I don't think there were any kind of lab notes or double blind tests or anything like that in the process.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    Chronicler wrote: »
    When I google that exact quote it brings me to

    https://www.yourdictionary.com/concubine

    Where it specifies that "A woman who cohabits with a man without being legally married to him." is legal terminology.

    Are we to presume that the dryads are lawyers, under the mistaken impression that they are in the middle of some court proceedings?

    I think its more of a stretch to assume a secondary or tertiary definition over the first one. They are ordered for a reason.

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,941
    edited September 2019
    lroumen wrote: »
    I always interpreted it as this.

    Imoen was touched emotionally in order to get out the bhaal essence and physically only with spells similar to the protagonist.

    The dryads were used for charms and feeling love emotions again.

    The ellisime clones were there for both the physical and emotional part.

    Reasoning, why use imoen physically when you have perfectly viable clones of your love nearby? And if the dryads use their charm on the clones to make them willing and cooperative... Bam. Perfect clone (outside of normal ellisime behaviour).

    He needs to pursue imoen and the protagonist to get a soul. He can use anything else to get back his feelings of love. I would estimate that he would not mix goals just like that.

    But if you have other interpretations that's fine. You should play the game and interpret the story completely your way.

    I prefer your thinking to mine. Mine is kinda icky. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I think I'll adopt it from now on if you don't mind.

    Post edited by Balrog99 on
    lroumengorgonzola
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 6,941
    Baldur's Gate logic:

    Oak trees can be grown underground.

    Artificial lighting? It works for many basement cannabis growers...

    gorgonzolaPsicoVic
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    Maybe that Sun God sends an Angel down to blast them with holy power once in a while?

    mlneveseBalrog99
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,160
    Baldur's Gate logic:

    Oak trees can be grown underground.

    In a world with magic that wouldn't be that strange at all...

    Balrog99Montresor_SPProont
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