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Baldur's Gate Logic

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  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,241
    Trees underground? Where?

    ElysianEchoes
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 751
    edited September 2019
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Backstabbing only works with "Thief Weapons".

    Bash somebody upside the head with a quarterstaff, that'll mess them up. Do the same thing with a mace and they'll probably walk away just fine.
    To be honest, I agree with this.
    But I always RP this like this: to make sneak attacks you need to make precision strikes into critical points of the body of your enemies, so you cannot do it with all weapons: Axes, maces or warhammers do not cut it, too much contact surface. Greatswords, bastard sword and greataxes are too big; etc.
    No reason why you can´t do it with a crosbow or a bow, though. Just make a headshot.

    Newer versions of D&D addressed that in several ways.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,810
    That's the thing, though--a bastard sword is only slightly larger than a long sword! The 3E changes and Item Revisions' changes make more sense, changing multipliers to bonus sneak attack dice and offering scaling multiplier penalties for larger weapons, respectively.

    gorgonzolaThacoBell
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    To be honest, I agree with this.
    But I always RP this like this: to make sneak attacks you need to make precision strikes into critical points of the body of your enemies, so you cannot do it with all weapons: Axes, maces or warhammers do not cut it, too much contact surface.
    but clubs do the trick...
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Greatswords, bastard sword and greataxes are too big; etc.
    while a katana is a really small weapon
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    No reason why you can´t do it with a crosbow or a bow, though. Just make a headshot.
    that would be great, at least from a RP point of view, but sadly if is very fun to play in other games like the elder scrolls ones with BG mechanics would be just OP.

    and further more a thief can stab with some weapon types like ninja to or staff, but if it happens that the particular weapons use is restricted to some other class and the thief can use it trough UAI he is not able to stab with it.
    a lot of things about stabbing and other thief abilities force us to a huge suspension of disbelief, like a hidden in shadows thief that walk right in front of an enemy in full light unnoticed, but with a timer to do it.
    but even if it is a nonsense it has reasons, think what a thief could do as he become able to use the SoTM...
    (roughly the same that he can actually do with a mislead scroll... :) ).

    playing thieves force to that big suspension of disbelief and still i find it the most fun to play class, even more fun then the casters with their complex magic system.

    Permidion_StarkDaevelon
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    Chronicler wrote: »
    "Dispel Invisibility" type spells will also undo a thief's stealth, so I think stealth might legit just be a form of invisibility in the game. It's not like some games where you're supposed to imagine that you're hidden behind a bush or something but they just haven't translated that properly into a gameplay mechanic. You're legit right in front of their face and using some kind of thiefy unmagic to be unseen anyway.

    This is why I can only use a shadow dancer for stealth.

    Chronicler
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    Chronicler wrote: »
    "Dispel Invisibility" type spells will also undo a thief's stealth, so I think stealth might legit just be a form of invisibility in the game. It's not like some games where you're supposed to imagine that you're hidden behind a bush or something but they just haven't translated that properly into a gameplay mechanic. You're legit right in front of their face and using some kind of thiefy unmagic to be unseen anyway.

    This is why I can only use a shadow dancer for stealth.

    In Pen and Paper shadowdancers can only hide in plain sight if there are some shadows nearby. It makes sense because you're sort of wrapping the shadows around you and seamlessly disappearing.

    Baldur's Gate didn't implement that, so it's a bit weird to picture you're just standing there in broad daylight, and then you wrap the shadows around yourself, but your shadowy form still very clearly stands out against the surrounding daylight. Enemies are like "Where'd you go?!"

    Montresor_SP
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 751
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Chronicler wrote: »
    "Dispel Invisibility" type spells will also undo a thief's stealth, so I think stealth might legit just be a form of invisibility in the game. It's not like some games where you're supposed to imagine that you're hidden behind a bush or something but they just haven't translated that properly into a gameplay mechanic. You're legit right in front of their face and using some kind of thiefy unmagic to be unseen anyway.

    This is why I can only use a shadow dancer for stealth.

    In Pen and Paper shadowdancers can only hide in plain sight if there are some shadows nearby. It makes sense because you're sort of wrapping the shadows around you and seamlessly disappearing.

    Baldur's Gate didn't implement that, so it's a bit weird to picture you're just standing there in broad daylight, and then you wrap the shadows around yourself, but your shadowy form still very clearly stands out against the surrounding daylight. Enemies are like "Where'd you go?!"

    23-56-top-15-scary-hide-and-seek-stories-sneak-100-45442358.png

    Unless they are mages or clerics, because it seems they like to cast "true sight" every 5 minutes for unknown reasons. Just in case.
    I suppose no matter your hide/move silently skill or invisibility status they can hear you anyway.








  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,218
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    Unless they are mages or clerics, because it seems they like to cast "true sight" every 5 minutes for unknown reasons. Just in case.
    I suppose no matter your hide/move silently skill or invisibility status they can hear you anyway.

    This actually got changed in 3.X (not sure if it carried forward to later editions). True Sight in 3.X only reveals magically concealed items/creatures/objects. It would reveal a door hidden by an illusion, for instance, but not one that was cleverly painted to look like a wall. Likewise, while it would let you see an invisible wizard, it would not let you see the Thief that was hiding inside the wardrobe with a crossbow trained on you (and since a Thief's Hide skill is considered non-magical, it means that True Sight is useless against stealthed Thieves).

    Chronicler
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 751
    edited September 2019
    Yeah, IIRC Pixie dust and glitterdust and faerie fire reveal hidden thieves, though.
    ed: Faerie fire makes you unable to go invisible, does not reveal =P

  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 154
    edited September 2019
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    Baldur's Gate Logic:

    takes Thalantyr of High Hedge a good 50 some odd years to become a level 17 wizard

    takes charname at best 1 year to get through; all of BG1 and going everywhere and doing everything and then also exploring the BG 2 area and doing everything and going everywhere, and the time you hit suldenesselar, its been less than a year since candlekeep and you are now the same level if not higher level than thalantyr,

    and then don't worry, in another 100 days you will become even higher level than elminster himself, good thing that ONLY took him around 2000 years or so, shazam :)

    My guess: the Bhaal's essence makes Charname capable of increasing his/her abilities at a faster rate, like learning quicker, becoming stronger and tougher with time etc. this also attracts greater opponents, that give more experience when you beat them (the more difficult your challenge is, the more you learn when you overcome it), so there is some sort of positive feedback, an exponential growth of difficulties and gains. Besides, that power irradiates and being close to Charname helps becoming powerful too.

    sarevok57mlneveseZaramMaldovarProont
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,241
    Is seriously nobody going to explain to me the underground trees thing?

    The only two things I can think that you might be talking about is either the Tree of Life in Suldanesselar which isn't underground because the entire city in hidden within the trees which are all above ground or the tree in the Underground River which is actually just the roots of the tree and not the actual tree part.

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    @ZaramMaldovar , apologies. I thought you were making a joke.
    the trees in Chateau Irenicus that keep his dryad slaves trapped there until the Faerie Queen gets acorns to grow them new trees.

    ChroniclerStromael
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,291
    You have these nice solar lamps that makes 'special plants' grow in enclosed spaces. I can imagine a sunray spell helping here.

  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,158
    edited September 2019
    In the case of Chateau Irenicus the explanation is even simpler. Plants grow because there are Dryads there.

    semiticgoddessProontMontresor_SP
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    _Connacht_ wrote: »
    My guess: the Bhaal's essence makes Charname capable of increasing his/her abilities at a faster rate, like learning quicker, becoming stronger and tougher with time etc...
    this is not the first time i hear this theory, but i disagree.
    the reason is that the other party members, that lack of bhaal's essence gain xp and levels just as fast and to think that the essence has a so powerful effect that irradiates also on the people that live near charname seem to me very unlikely.

    i prefer to think that the only reason why my charnames can go from 89k xp at the beginning of soa to 8M xp end game is that we players want to see a progress, a constant improvement. so our party, the enemies that we find and even the equipment are set to this completely not logical way.

    completely not logical, but very fun to play, i accept it but don't try to build RP rationalizations for it.

    If anything it's more of a Protagonist thing.

    It doesn't make an interesting story to spend an eternity killing small safe mooks before you're ready to tackle the large exciting challenges.

    Stories tend to escalate. So you'll deal with one threat, then you'll deal with a bigger threat, then a bigger one, each time finding conveniently that you've grown just strong enough to thwart this newer stronger villain.

    While the rest of the world must train in unexciting ways for slow gradual growth, the player and their companions face theatrical challenges and the rapid growth will almost be an afterthought.

    It's understood that Drizzt for example, has an inherent strength within him, so when they go into the backstory for how he became so cool, it'll mostly be a matter of bringing out the strength that was inside him all along. Allowing them to take various shortcuts without straining the reader's disbelief. Ie, he picked up the double scimitars and they just felt natural in his hands, as if he'd been born to wield them.

    DaevelonThacoBellProontMontresor_SP
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,341
    Baldur's Gate logic: giant hole explodes in highly populated area of the city; only gets the attention of two spectators.

    That's some of what I was talking about with your fame in Siege of Dragonspear being weird.

    Nowhere else in the series are your actions treated as quite as noteworthy as that. You and your companions escape from a dungeon under the city in a massive explosion that causes property damage all around, immediately get into a confrontation with an archmage that results in one of your companions being taken away by the authorities, and it's not like people don't notice. It catches the ears of the people who are interested in that sort of stuff. But it's not like every commoner going about their business thinks your particular hijinks are the most interesting thing to ever happen to the city.

    This won't even be the only underground dungeon unearthed this week. Not a ten minute's walk from your escape Keldorn is already investigating The Cult of the Unseeing Eye and their massive underground lair built into the sewers.

    ElysianEchoesThacoBellProontMontresor_SP
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,158
    edited September 2019
    JoenSo wrote: »
    Skatan wrote: »
    Sometimes it's fun to stand still at the entrance and fire of fireballs to the area you think he will teleport to next. It kinda feels like playing tennis. Especially fun if one of your NPCs with boots of haste is running around after him trying to chuck him. Then it feels like a Benny Hill scene.

    Remind me to never play tennis with you.

    You never played tennis with a randomized timer bomb inside the ball?!

    ThacoBellJoenSoProontMontresor_SP
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,241
    Random Fireball Spam until you hit the target? I could see Zaram doing that.

    ProontmlneveseThacoBellMontresor_SP
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