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Is this the last of the Line?

DonCzirrDonCzirr Member Posts: 165
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
Does anyone know if there have been any statements on this being the last release for the BG Series?

Has it done well enough that Beamdog is likely to develop more?

I like all the Infinity Engine games but the Baldur's Gate line could keep me buying more original material for a very long time ....
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Comments

  • cbarker15cbarker15 Member Posts: 38
    God said:

    The gamedev industry works as follows:
    1. Someone designs an excellent game.
    2. They get money.
    3. They spend that money to make a better game.
    4. They fail, because they can't possibly create a better game.
    5. They have no money to create more content for their successful game.
    6. Their successful game drops in sales due to lack of new content.
    7. EA buys them out and/or they go to the gamedev hell of ultimate bankruptcy.

    7a. is Beamdog. They revived a long-dead product in the hopes of monetizing it further. I don't have access to any data about SoD sales, but if the expansion was successful, Beamdog should definitely go on and create more Infinity Engine products. However, most likely they will follow the above paradigm and, instead, focus on making a better game. Which is a shame, really. The Infinity Engine is timeless and deserves to be alive with new games shipped every now and then.

    That's a very cynical way of looking at it lol. I can think of many examples where the money spent on a sequel or new IP works out but I get the sentiment. I think old school isometric rpgs are in a revival period. I've never played BG 1 or 2 before last year.. In that span I've played Fallout 2, Divinity OS, Neverwinter Nights 2, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland and many more. With the release and critical acclaim of Divinity OS 2 I think there is a good possibility we get new IE games. Well if beamdog capitalizes and stops taking forever with patches. TBH i think this company squanders alot of good faith. I get game development is long and tedious but does anyone know what they have been working on outside of patching already released games?
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    God said:

    The gamedev industry works as follows:
    1. Someone designs an excellent game.
    2. They get money.
    3. They spend that money to make a better game.
    4. They fail, because they can't possibly create a better game.
    5. They have no money to create more content for their successful game.
    6. Their successful game drops in sales due to lack of new content.
    7. EA buys them out and/or they go to the gamedev hell of ultimate bankruptcy.

    7a. is Beamdog. They revived a long-dead product in the hopes of monetizing it further. I don't have access to any data about SoD sales, but if the expansion was successful, Beamdog should definitely go on and create more Infinity Engine products. However, most likely they will follow the above paradigm and, instead, focus on making a better game. Which is a shame, really. The Infinity Engine is timeless and deserves to be alive with new games shipped every now and then.

    You are mistaken on both how the industry works and that the IE engine is timeless.
  • DonCzirrDonCzirr Member Posts: 165
    Thanks for the comments above.

    I agree with Cbarker.

    Since the EE games have come back, I've been playing a whole bunch of BG1, PST and IWD.

    Playing BG1 again last night and thinking about the great atmosphere, many dialogue encounters and sub-quests, I was thinking how enjoyable it would be to see more content on hidden areas / quests encounters with some new expansions.

    Perhaps it would be a good opportunity to address some of the minor issues that made the core games a bit annoying - like combat in PST (in different / new planes it could be less repetitive and with more variety and new mechanics).

    That might be hard to retro-fit into the core areas but - for new content who knows?

    In any case, I am really enjoying these revived isometric adventures and hope the sales on SOD / PST etc drive more development in the future ...
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @typo_tilly I dunno, I feel like that would wreck the level curve even more.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    Dev6 said:

    I'd rather have an IWD expansion and IWD2EE than a BG2 expansion tbh.

    An IWDEE expansion would be nice. I mean, the game doesn't really have a satisfying ending. You beat the dragon and...then what?

    With a high level party, I'm sure that there is much that they could still do.
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  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    Grum said:

    Dev6 said:

    I'd rather have an IWD expansion and IWD2EE than a BG2 expansion tbh.

    An IWDEE expansion would be nice.
    I'm pretty that adding an expansion to Trials of the Luremaster would result in the PCs ending up in Limbo... :wink:
  • Dev6Dev6 Member Posts: 721
    Grum said:

    Dev6 said:

    I'd rather have an IWD expansion and IWD2EE than a BG2 expansion tbh.

    An IWDEE expansion would be nice. I mean, the game doesn't really have a satisfying ending. You beat the dragon and...then what?

    With a high level party, I'm sure that there is much that they could still do.
    I know, right?
    Plus, IWD has an amazingly unique atmosphere. I've seen enough of the Sword Coast, I wanna see more of the Spine of the World.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    typo_tilly said:

    More dungeons and areas for IWD could be cool too!

    ThacoBell said:

    @typo_tilly I dunno, I feel like that would wreck the level curve even more.

    Not if they don't raise the cap. :) To a player like me, it'd mean more than one route to explore while reaching the cap.
    True, but then you run into the problem of hitting the level cap WAY before the end. An rpg where your character can't progress anymore is boring. That was Pillars of Eternity's biggest problem.
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    edited October 2017
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  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    typo_tilly said:

    True. But maybe weapon and armour loot would encourage you to explore dungeons even after you hit the level cap? *-) Because of all the crafting in PoE, I didn't care much about the loot, so I got bored after hitting the cap.

    This is what I think was PoE's biggest misstep. Your characters should never hit the cap 2/3 rds of the way through the game. Having so much extra power come exclusively from items is also bad, as it puts more emphasis on loot drops, rather than the character you spent all that time creating. Ideally there should be a fairly even level curve all the way through, letting completionists capping out with maybe 10% of the game left. Long enough to revel in having maxed your character, but no so long that you feel like all progression has stopped.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    ThacoBell said:

    @UnderstandMouseMagic Pillars of Eternity did something similar. Killing enemies fills out entries in an in-universe bestiary. Every enemy killed is one more bit of lore and a bit of xp. Once the lore entry is full, you stop gaining xp for that enemy.

    Personally I felt that was awful game design. They throw trash mob after trash mob at you and then remove the only payoff for all that tedium. I'd rather they tone down or remove trash mob random encounters entirely.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    OrlonKronsteen said:

    ThacoBell said:

    @UnderstandMouseMagic Pillars of Eternity did something similar. Killing enemies fills out entries in an in-universe bestiary. Every enemy killed is one more bit of lore and a bit of xp. Once the lore entry is full, you stop gaining xp for that enemy.

    Personally I felt that was awful game design. They throw trash mob after trash mob at you and then remove the only payoff for all that tedium. I'd rather they tone down or remove trash mob random encounters entirely.
    They did exactly that with the expansions which even reduced trash mobs in the base game.
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  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    One interesting thing that some roguelikes do is to give you experience just for encountering new creatures, not just murder xp. It takes things slightly away from murder hobo gameplay and makes stealth/ exploration more viable. Of course this works well in systems where levelling up doesn't just mean combat mastery.
  • DonCzirrDonCzirr Member Posts: 165
    To be honest, the leveling is not that important to me - I am more interested in the exploration in the wilderness and small communities, meeting odd characters like "Albert" from BG1 etc ...

    I can see how the level cap is an issue and how adding more content with the same cap could hasten the progression to where it feels the like the party is not developing ...

    I would not mind however, some type of time / dimension altering fluff that triggers when you get into a new DLC introduced area that sets you back to a certain level (like a snapshot of your party at 4th level) and transported you to a completely new environment, with new enemies, conversations etc ...

    You would still be using the same spells etc - but it would be in a different environment with different challenges , people to meet etc ....


    Hope Beamdog takes on that challenge and keeps infusing new life into this entertaining platform ...
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Beamdog isn't what I thought it would be. If thought they would revive the timeless IE engine and start making "modules" from it. Why not recycle all the maps and make a new adventure that takes players from the frozen north to the deserts of the south? Now that the Bhalspawn story is done what about a story of some first level adventurers dealing with the aftermath?

    I still think it's a good idea but I don't see any signs that this is the vision that Beamdog is following. I agree with @God that the sales numbers are important but I think those numbers are artificially low because gamergate sorts decided to throw a spanner in the works.

    And I agree with @typo_tilly -- I'd like a BG2 expansion.

    And to repeat myself. I'd like an entirely new IE game --*all* engines are buggy / limited in *some way*. PoE is much better looking than IE but it just doesn't feel the same and I'm guessing I'll think the same of the unreal engine version of IE . . .

    Perhaps some other company / startup will pick up the EE engine and make it. If I had money I'd invest.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    All new games using D&D rules, which has to be licensed from WotC, will be required to use Version 5 rules, as I understand it. That would probably require enough of a rewrite of IE that one might as well use a new engine for Version 5 or go with another game/ruleset and engine altogether
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    edited October 2017
    tbone1 said:

    All new games using D&D rules, which has to be licensed from WotC, will be required to use Version 5 rules, as I understand it. That would probably require enough of a rewrite of IE that one might as well use a new engine for Version 5 or go with another game/ruleset and engine altogether

    It's a good point but they did allow SoD to happen and even made "Baldur's Gate" their convention theme. I don't see why they couldn't allow a BG2 expansion.

    Also, I'm not *entirely* sure that it is the new policy -- if someone went to WotC with an IE game proposal would they say no? Maybe, maybe not.

    But, having said all that, like 5th ed and I'm hoping the carriage screenshot / teasers in SoD means they are working on a Waterdeep based game.
    Post edited by killerrabbit on
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @killerrabbit I wouldn't hold my breath. WotC allowed SoD to be 2nd ed because it is an expansion to an existing game. I suspect Beamdog intended to expand on BG2 slightly (mostly closing open plot threads from SoD maybe bringing a couple of the new npcs over) but the flamewars and fake controversy over SoD killed any interest in it. Beamdog has said they don't have any plans to expand on it now.
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    ajwz said:

    I think theres a heck of a lot of room in the market for a new D&D game. It's been a longtime since we've had a good quality one. I'd argue not since NWN2.

    SoD was good. Just overly linear and short. But yes, we're on the same page re: wanting a new D&D game and, yeah, it's been a long time.
    ajwz said:

    The other alternative would be a NWN3 or even a NWN1 remaster.
    I doubt we'll see another infinity engine game, it's just way to old, and the cracks and limitation too obvious. A new engine based of the the style of IE would be much better IMO

    You are probably right but I really hope not because I dislike fugly, 3D-tile, multi-player optimized games. I know every dev wants to cash in by becoming the next WoW but if I wanted to play a D&D version of WoW I'd play WoW and pretend it was D&D.

    PoE had the right idea -- it was just the execution that was flawed. (still happy I bought it)

    And I'll throw in a gratuitous hey @begho . . @JuliusBorisov we needs more news. Any more leaks you can share? In your totallynotspeakingforthecompanybecauseyoudon'tmakethesedecisions opinion is this the end of the road for the IE?

  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    ajwz said:

    I doubt we'll see another infinity engine game, it's just way to old, and the cracks and limitation too obvious. A new engine based of the the style of IE would be much better IMO

    Obsidian already created a new engine that tries to be the next IE.

    It's awful.
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