@meagloth You can care for them but not be in love with them. Countless people just go into relationships because they are attracted to each other but not love them, that comes later. And that's okay. You can be in a relationship because you like their company and being with them.
Personally I never said that there should be a pressure with dating. It should be the opposite of pressure. You can go out to meet girls and see how it goes. Some of them might turn into friends, others into girlfriends.
*Sigh* I feared that this would be the response: "a relationship is not a sport, it's not the same". But that's the point of an analogy. Comparing two different things by using an example to make a point.
Shall we go back to square one? -People complain in and out of this forum about wanting a girlfriend and their dates. -I explain that you can be more successful with dates and relationships if you avoid some mistakes and do what works. -It suddenly becomes a philosophical discussion of what should work and what people should be doing, when I'm explaining what does work based on personal experience and actual opinions and what does happen.
If people are not happy with their dating life, then they should do things differently and learn to do what works. Because if they keep doing the same things and expecting different results, it's the path to insanity.
And I honestly thank you for your last comment @meagloth. Yes, I know how you feel. How things should work and how people should react and what should happen.
But unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I know it. I had many many dates in the past and various girlfriends.
My first girlfriends and relationships, in my teens, were disasters. I was doing things that I'm telling people they shouldn't do. Then I did so research. Asking people, seeing why things work and why they don't and which ones those were.
This is what I mean personal experience. I have been there. I have been the needy and insecure boring guy that totally destroyed some of my relationships and drove girls away.
And I have learned.
I have changed my way of thinking and I was more pleasant in my other relationships. I was a happier man and I was in a happier relationship.
It's when you believe that the Earth is flat and you realize that the Earth is freaking round and you facepalm hard.
Though I'm probably just a young, sheltered idealist to naive to accept the way the world really is. What would I know, anyway. I've never even been on a date:/ I've said more than my fair share on how I think the world should be, and I'll shut up now.
This year has been really shitty I lost quite a few friends that i made in 2013. I have been feeling lonely for many months due to my lack of close friends. I don't have any $$, a job, i am strugleing to achive my education to get grade 12, i have met many women that i liked who have led me to disapointment. I lost a really good friend of mine due to an argument i had. And my family while they do care about me, they do not treat me with allot of respect or totaly positivity. Espeshaily my dad who constantly puts me down.
all in all this year has been a dump and yet still i go on, i am supprised my egg has not cracked yet. Tonight i also had my first drink in 7 months. I tried and failed horribly.
This is probably a less popular opinion, but I don't get the whole search for love idea. Love will come, just be patient. Unless you're a complete hermit who never goes outside. In that case I would suggest you go back to your room and cry for the rest of your life, or get out more. This is why dating sites don't make any sense to me, except for scientific data collection. You should not want a girlfriend. You should want amy or gina, or whatever her name is. Having a partner just for the sake of having a partner or social status or feeling fulfilled is all to common won't get you anywhere. I see it a lot from my position, and it's pathetic.
I think the younger you are, the easier it is to feel this way. It's more or less the approach I had for a number of years, when I didn't want a girlfriend all that badly. And yeah, some people do get lucky and have a partner fall into their lap (giggity), but not always, and even if they do it might take longer than they'd like. So one day, about a year ago, I woke up and realized that I wasn't content to wait an indefinite amount of time during which a girlfriend may or may not appear. Unfortunately, my years spent with a hands-off approach have resulted in me not having any relationship experience, or even any clue how to start looking for a girlfriend.
@TJ_Hooker Exactly, waiting for the love of your life to just appear somehow and live happily ever after happens only in fairy-tales unfortunately.
Even if it's not about going out to meet someone every weekend, it's about taking an active role instead of passive stance and trying to meet new people, one way or another.
But also, when the moment comes that you're interested in a girl, you know how to act and not drive her off. Because girls meet needy, creepy, with low confidence guys, all the time. And they reject them because they're not attractive. Not appearance-wise attractive but personality attractive.
From my experiences, many if not most girls would rather be with a confident and humorous guy than someone that is all muscle or a model.
Also saying that "you should wait and it will happen someday" is the equivalent of hoping to win the lottery, instead of going out there and learning how to get a job.
If someone believes that it will just happen someday, then you better be prepared with some experience instead of getting it and losing it because of what you did.
I'll weigh in a little here. Many years ago when I was in the Air Force I fell into the drinking culture that is fairly strong here, I lost friends through this stupidity and swore I wouldn't drink again. I haven't since then, probably never will again. However, what I took away from my years there was to be pro active. If you want something, seize it. Take action. Be the one making the decisions. Don't let life lead you around like a pet dog, take the lead, get on top of it and beat the living crap out of it. As much as I hate the expression, you do only live once. No one gets another shot in this world. What you make of it is up to you.
The best thing I've found is to have confidence in yourself. Know what you can and can't do. People can detect a quiet self confidence, not arrogance. Being arrogant and loud tends to make people hate you. I've changed a lot over the years and I'm always open to learning. I try to learn something from everyone I meet and interact with. To me, the meaning of life is self improvement and self enlightenment.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents for now, once again I'll show myself out.
One major thing that is positive about me is my ability to bounce back, and look on the bright side of things. This not the greatest veiw point because looking on the bright side of something bad is not a really good thing. I sobered up pretty quickly yesterday realized my mistake and well life goes on. One horrible thing about me is my inabilty to learn quickly this has been my downfall and if i was working i would probley be let go due to a bunch of mishaps or something.
@Archaos You hit the nail right on the head where relationships are concerned. Well done!
I would also like to give you some examples on confidence, because I kind of felt like it:
Instead of saying: "Um, would you like to go on a date with me, please?" You should say: "Hey, let's go for a cup of tea/coffee tomorrow, it will be fun."
Many guys try to play it super safe with girls and the conversation becomes awkward and sterile, I think.
Instead of: "Can you give me your number, please?" You say: "By the way, what's your number?" With a phone in hand.
You look her in the eyes and you are relaxed. If you don't make eye contact and you seem anxious and afraid, some girls might think of it as cute, many others will consider you a little boy that is afraid of her.
Maybe tease her while you're on a date or walking together. Make jokes, pinch or tickle her and put your hand around her waist when you walk into a building or come out.
If the date is going well, maybe look at her earrings and brush her hair out of the way and say "Nice earrings" while you rub her neck or ear.
No, I am not saying doing this to random strangers. You do this when you got to know her and the date is going well and she seems interested to talk with you.
They are small things that show that you are a confident man, comfortable around girls and fun to be with.
Also it's a good idea for you to end the date/phonecall/conversation/whatever and tell her "Anyway, it's time for me to go. See you next time and leave." The date shouldn't drag into akwardness like "ummm, sooo what will you do now?".
Women like a confident man. Not a scared boy or an arrogant douchebag. (Though some do fall for the last ones but for other reasons than you might think.)
Mmm. We must have disagreed mostly over which words we used. All of what @archaos said seems blatantly obvious to me. Of course you don't start every sentence with "um..."
@meagloth You don't in written form but it happens unwillingly when you talk with someone live and you're anxious.
Also, it might be obvious for some but do they actually do it while in a date for example? Some might be afraid that she will take it the wrong way or come off wrong or this or that and just play it safe.
@Sergio Alright, a serious response. That's a misogynistic and quite ignorant opinion on women.
"Don't deal with women because they're bitches, go to prostitutes instead".
Some women will test your buttons and play games for you to see if you're truly confident and mature and not a boy that will run after them.
But if you prove that you're attractive, confident and mature and won't take second-class behavior from them and have self-respect, she will be the one that wants to be with you and be your boyfriend.
If you consider women "leeches" then that's because you have no idea how to deal with that behavior when it comes and you immediately give up.
If a woman is not treating you with respect then that's your problem and you should let her know that you won't take this behavior and even break up with her.
Because some really attractive girls are used to have guys willing to run them over and put up with their behavior and they get away with it because they know that they guy doesn't want to displease her or lose her.
@Archaos The examples you gave given regarding confidence sounds more like being more casual than more confident, but I admit that the "casual" approach might work better.
Seeing how even my low self-estemeed roomate found himself a girlfriend, I cannot keep doing nothing about myself. I'm not going to just tell myself that I'm confident and attractive. I'm going to make it reality, and nothing builds more confidence in oneself and subjective physical attractiveness as working out and loosing some weith. I can, so I will.
@Sergio I can at least agree that you shouldn't chase women and not be a pet that she does what she wants with him. But really, thinking of them as leeches and preferring prostitutes over them is quite effed up.
@ZelgadisGW Yes, be casual, be normal and relaxed in the beginning. It's not rocket science. Don't try to do things for a girl in the beginning, don't chase her, don't try too hard or try to be special.
Just be confident and relaxed. Be casual as if you were already in a relationship with her or she was your friend or sister that you tease and have fun and don't need to win her attention.
You should work out and be more attractive physically yes but if you're not confident on the inside, it won't work in the long term.
One of my exes (or was it someone else? I cannot remember) told that she had a relathionship with a really attractive guy but he kept telling her how he's not that pretty and this and that.
They broke up and she got turned off. Confidence > Physical attractiveness. This is a fact.
And you can start doing that, by believing that you're more attractive and sexy. And to do that, you start by telling it to yourself again and again.
@Archaos You misunderstood me. Having strong and attractive body raises confidence by itself. If I work both physicaly and mentally for my confidence, I will surely manage to reach something.
@ZelgadisGW It can but it's not the same. One can be very attractive but not be that confident. Or one can be confident and not that attractive. That's all.
@Sergio Um, I didn't say anything about you at all. I said that what you said was misogynistic because you said that women are leeches and are only for sex and we should not bother with them.
"I came to realize that the best one amongst all them is a manipulative bitch, while the worst one is the person that will take you to hell if she could. Women are good just as a supply for sex. There is almost no difference between a leech and a women, I assure you."
I have commented on those things and those things only.
@Archaos One can be attractive but not confident- I agree. Onc can be really strong, capable and healthy, but not confident - I disagree. . Well, main point is that it's going to only help me. Body is obviously not the one thing I have to work upon, but the better I feel about my own body, the better would I feel in general.
@ZelgadisGW Nope. One may not be confident for various reasons. Perhaps they were bullied or they were ugly/fat/whatever when in school and it stuck through their adulthood.
I know a guy like that. He is tall, in good shape (he is doing muay-thai for 5 years?) and he is not good with girls.
I told him of some of my attractive girlfriends that are also gamers and he said "dude, how and where do you meet all these girls? I'm so jealous" or stuff like that. He jokingly wants to kick my ass for that. Heh.
He is just not that confident even though he's healthy and in great shape.
Like I said, I'm not giving out opinions or theories, I'm giving out experiences and facts. You cannot know what baggage one person can have in their self-esteem that prevents them from being confident as their appearance might suggest.
Edit: @Archaos Let's put it like that. If I will meet a girl worth it (even if I doubt there is one that can offer more than sex), I'll come to apologize in this forum. Deal? Sorry if you think that my personal opinion, especially about the fact that prostitutes are even better for offering sex and they offer the only thing 99.9% of the girls I've met out there offer, is effed up, but it's the mere truth
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you honestly believe that all women are manipulative bitches who are useful for nothing but sex, chances are women you meet are going to pick up on that to some extent. And then they'll likely act negatively towards you and you'll probably consider that to be further evidence in support of your views on women.
@Archaos For my knowledge, feeling of self-efficacy helps with raising the confidence. That's what I'm aiming for. Also, feeling confident and being good with girls are two different things, so your example might be a little off. Confidence is needed, but it doesn't give you skills how to deal with women.
And by the way, you are stating only experiences. I am stating my thoughts. None of us are stating facts.
Edit: @Archaos Let's put it like that. If I will meet a girl worth it (even if I doubt there is one that can offer more than sex), I'll come to apologize in this forum. Deal? Sorry if you think that my personal opinion, especially about the fact that prostitutes are even better for offering sex and they offer the only thing 99.9% of the girls I've met out there offer, is effed up, but it's the mere truth
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you honestly believe that all women are manipulative bitches who are useful for nothing but sex, chances are women you meet are going to pick up on that to some extent. And then they'll likely act negatively towards you and you'll probably consider that to be further evidence in support of your views on women.
Nah. Despising how people behave doesn't mean that I do not respect them.
Similarly, the fact that you respect someone does not necessarily entail acting amiably towards them.
And, based on what you've said in this thread, I have a hard time believing you respect women.
But, at the end of the day, it is of course your prerogative.
@TJ_Hooker This kind of behavior begins from several disappointments.
Of course, it's logically impossible to conclude that "all women are the same" because one cannot meet every woman.
It's the same with some women that after being disappointed from relationships they go "all men are the same or this or that".
And I agree with you "If you believe this or that, it will happen". This can work both negatively and positively.
If you believe that women/men are bitches/pigs or leeches/assholes, you will meet those. If you believe that you're attractive and confident, they will start treating you like that.
And to give one more example, no president/CEO/famous/rich/spaceman person just happened to be that. They believed in it and wanted to and they became what they are.
The power of belief is a tool that can be used to achieve what we want in life, for good or bad.
Comments
You can be in a relationship because you like their company and being with them.
Personally I never said that there should be a pressure with dating. It should be the opposite of pressure.
You can go out to meet girls and see how it goes. Some of them might turn into friends, others into girlfriends.
*Sigh* I feared that this would be the response: "a relationship is not a sport, it's not the same".
But that's the point of an analogy. Comparing two different things by using an example to make a point.
Shall we go back to square one?
-People complain in and out of this forum about wanting a girlfriend and their dates.
-I explain that you can be more successful with dates and relationships if you avoid some mistakes and do what works.
-It suddenly becomes a philosophical discussion of what should work and what people should be doing, when I'm explaining what does work based on personal experience and actual opinions and what does happen.
If people are not happy with their dating life, then they should do things differently and learn to do what works.
Because if they keep doing the same things and expecting different results, it's the path to insanity.
And I honestly thank you for your last comment @meagloth. Yes, I know how you feel.
How things should work and how people should react and what should happen.
But unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I know it. I had many many dates in the past and various girlfriends.
My first girlfriends and relationships, in my teens, were disasters. I was doing things that I'm telling people they shouldn't do.
Then I did so research. Asking people, seeing why things work and why they don't and which ones those were.
This is what I mean personal experience. I have been there. I have been the needy and insecure boring guy that totally destroyed some of my relationships and drove girls away.
And I have learned.
I have changed my way of thinking and I was more pleasant in my other relationships. I was a happier man and I was in a happier relationship.
It's when you believe that the Earth is flat and you realize that the Earth is freaking round and you facepalm hard.
(Also I should get some sleep for now.)
I regress.
This year has been really shitty I lost quite a few friends that i made in 2013. I have been feeling lonely for many months due to my lack of close friends. I don't have any $$, a job, i am strugleing to achive my education to get grade 12, i have met many women that i liked who have led me to disapointment. I lost a really good friend of mine due to an argument i had. And my family while they do care about me, they do not treat me with allot of respect or totaly positivity. Espeshaily my dad who constantly puts me down.
all in all this year has been a dump and yet still i go on, i am supprised my egg has not cracked yet. Tonight i also had my first drink in 7 months. I tried and failed horribly.
Even if it's not about going out to meet someone every weekend, it's about taking an active role instead of passive stance and trying to meet new people, one way or another.
But also, when the moment comes that you're interested in a girl, you know how to act and not drive her off.
Because girls meet needy, creepy, with low confidence guys, all the time. And they reject them because they're not attractive. Not appearance-wise attractive but personality attractive.
From my experiences, many if not most girls would rather be with a confident and humorous guy than someone that is all muscle or a model.
Also saying that "you should wait and it will happen someday" is the equivalent of hoping to win the lottery, instead of going out there and learning how to get a job.
If someone believes that it will just happen someday, then you better be prepared with some experience instead of getting it and losing it because of what you did.
However, what I took away from my years there was to be pro active. If you want something, seize it. Take action. Be the one making the decisions. Don't let life lead you around like a pet dog, take the lead, get on top of it and beat the living crap out of it.
As much as I hate the expression, you do only live once. No one gets another shot in this world. What you make of it is up to you.
The best thing I've found is to have confidence in yourself. Know what you can and can't do. People can detect a quiet self confidence, not arrogance. Being arrogant and loud tends to make people hate you.
I've changed a lot over the years and I'm always open to learning. I try to learn something from everyone I meet and interact with. To me, the meaning of life is self improvement and self enlightenment.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents for now, once again I'll show myself out.
@Archaos You hit the nail right on the head where relationships are concerned. Well done!
Instead of saying: "Um, would you like to go on a date with me, please?"
You should say: "Hey, let's go for a cup of tea/coffee tomorrow, it will be fun."
Many guys try to play it super safe with girls and the conversation becomes awkward and sterile, I think.
Instead of: "Can you give me your number, please?"
You say: "By the way, what's your number?" With a phone in hand.
You look her in the eyes and you are relaxed. If you don't make eye contact and you seem anxious and afraid, some girls might think of it as cute, many others will consider you a little boy that is afraid of her.
Maybe tease her while you're on a date or walking together. Make jokes, pinch or tickle her and put your hand around her waist when you walk into a building or come out.
If the date is going well, maybe look at her earrings and brush her hair out of the way and say "Nice earrings" while you rub her neck or ear.
No, I am not saying doing this to random strangers. You do this when you got to know her and the date is going well and she seems interested to talk with you.
They are small things that show that you are a confident man, comfortable around girls and fun to be with.
Also it's a good idea for you to end the date/phonecall/conversation/whatever and tell her "Anyway, it's time for me to go. See you next time and leave."
The date shouldn't drag into akwardness like "ummm, sooo what will you do now?".
Women like a confident man. Not a scared boy or an arrogant douchebag.
(Though some do fall for the last ones but for other reasons than you might think.)
Also, it might be obvious for some but do they actually do it while in a date for example?
Some might be afraid that she will take it the wrong way or come off wrong or this or that and just play it safe.
Which turns into a boring and awkward date.
"Don't deal with women because they're bitches, go to prostitutes instead".
Some women will test your buttons and play games for you to see if you're truly confident and mature and not a boy that will run after them.
But if you prove that you're attractive, confident and mature and won't take second-class behavior from them and have self-respect, she will be the one that wants to be with you and be your boyfriend.
If you consider women "leeches" then that's because you have no idea how to deal with that behavior when it comes and you immediately give up.
If a woman is not treating you with respect then that's your problem and you should let her know that you won't take this behavior and even break up with her.
Because some really attractive girls are used to have guys willing to run them over and put up with their behavior and they get away with it because they know that they guy doesn't want to displease her or lose her.
The examples you gave given regarding confidence sounds more like being more casual than more confident, but I admit that the "casual" approach might work better.
Seeing how even my low self-estemeed roomate found himself a girlfriend, I cannot keep doing nothing about myself. I'm not going to just tell myself that I'm confident and attractive. I'm going to make it reality, and nothing builds more confidence in oneself and subjective physical attractiveness as working out and loosing some weith. I can, so I will.
But really, thinking of them as leeches and preferring prostitutes over them is quite effed up.
@ZelgadisGW Yes, be casual, be normal and relaxed in the beginning. It's not rocket science.
Don't try to do things for a girl in the beginning, don't chase her, don't try too hard or try to be special.
Just be confident and relaxed. Be casual as if you were already in a relationship with her or she was your friend or sister that you tease and have fun and don't need to win her attention.
You should work out and be more attractive physically yes but if you're not confident on the inside, it won't work in the long term.
One of my exes (or was it someone else? I cannot remember) told that she had a relathionship with a really attractive guy but he kept telling her how he's not that pretty and this and that.
They broke up and she got turned off. Confidence > Physical attractiveness. This is a fact.
And you can start doing that, by believing that you're more attractive and sexy. And to do that, you start by telling it to yourself again and again.
You misunderstood me. Having strong and attractive body raises confidence by itself. If I work both physicaly and mentally for my confidence, I will surely manage to reach something.
That's all.
@Sergio Um, I didn't say anything about you at all. I said that what you said was misogynistic because you said that women are leeches and are only for sex and we should not bother with them.
"I came to realize that the best one amongst all them is a manipulative bitch, while the worst one is the person that will take you to hell if she could.
Women are good just as a supply for sex.
There is almost no difference between a leech and a women, I assure you."
I have commented on those things and those things only.
One can be attractive but not confident- I agree.
Onc can be really strong, capable and healthy, but not confident - I disagree.
I know a guy like that. He is tall, in good shape (he is doing muay-thai for 5 years?) and he is not good with girls.
I told him of some of my attractive girlfriends that are also gamers and he said "dude, how and where do you meet all these girls? I'm so jealous" or stuff like that.
He jokingly wants to kick my ass for that. Heh.
He is just not that confident even though he's healthy and in great shape.
Like I said, I'm not giving out opinions or theories, I'm giving out experiences and facts.
You cannot know what baggage one person can have in their self-esteem that prevents them from being confident as their appearance might suggest.
And by the way, you are stating only experiences. I am stating my thoughts. None of us are stating facts.
And, based on what you've said in this thread, I have a hard time believing you respect women.
But, at the end of the day, it is of course your prerogative.
Of course, it's logically impossible to conclude that "all women are the same" because one cannot meet every woman.
It's the same with some women that after being disappointed from relationships they go "all men are the same or this or that".
And I agree with you "If you believe this or that, it will happen". This can work both negatively and positively.
If you believe that women/men are bitches/pigs or leeches/assholes, you will meet those.
If you believe that you're attractive and confident, they will start treating you like that.
And to give one more example, no president/CEO/famous/rich/spaceman person just happened to be that.
They believed in it and wanted to and they became what they are.
The power of belief is a tool that can be used to achieve what we want in life, for good or bad.